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Science

French revolt against Prime Meridian-Sort Of 575

Well, this amused Rob and I so much that we just had to post it. Rather then continue to use the World-accepted Prime Meridian (Yeah, who needs standards?), the French Government has decided that the world' prime meridian runs through Paris. To celebrate, they're building groves of trees all the way down through France, which will be viewable from space. I should be clear: This is the Government, not a popular action by the people. And I think this is only 1/2 as stupid as US Crypto laws. I've been told that this is actually one of those many Millenium Celebration things, and not actually a revolt-thanks to those who write me.
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French revolt against Prime Meridian

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    The metric system isn't as divisible as the English system, therefore it's inferior. Octal, Base 12 and Hexadecimal rule! Down with base 10.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    If we'd followed to the letter the actions that established the Metric System, we would have also renumbered years, starting a new era with the year one (which was done on French coins for about the first decade after the French Revolution). We would also have gone to the metric year of ten months.

    Of course, basing the whole system of units of measure on the arbitrary fact that we have ten fingers and ten toes is about as lame as any other scheme.

    Let's use Hexadecimal. Why adopt half-baked solutions based on obsolete notions like base ten?

    Or, of course, we could base units of measure on human-based scales and ratios.

    But to prevent the degeneration into a Metric system squabble:

    It's all great. I'm glad we're on the brink of adopting the Metric system, or whatever. I'll still feed those cats I own about a cup a day of kibbles. They don't care if I call it a watermelon. Just that it's in the dish in the morning.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    My 13/37" wrench comes in handy all the time.

    But I prefer to use a 21/43" if one is handy.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    >>Why would he buy France when he can own
    >>the US government?

    Ummm....because he too thinks Jerry Lewis is a comic genius?

    Because he gets all pissy when you use a language other than his? (Although French has better exception handling than VBScript...)

    Because he too is convinced of his own superiority even in the face of evidence to the contrary?

    Because he wants a World Cup? (Allez Les Bleus!)

    Because his company's products are only allowed to use the security features his company develops?

    Because he likes pommes frites?
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Nononono... it's not like that.

    We, humans, measure time in days.

    A day is divided in 24 hours of 60 seconds.

    Noon, GMT is defined as the time the Sun is directly above the horizon.

    What happens is that the duration of the day varies, and therefore the GMT second is of variable length -- not good for scientific measurement.

    Thus, they arbitrarily defined the UTC second, to closely match the GMT one. But if we were not to add leap seconds, then noon would drift (slowly but it would) and it time as we know it wouldn't be the same -- therefore it's a Good Thing.

    On the other hand, one could argue that it would't make much of a difference. It would take a LONG time for the difference to reach 1 hour, and we don't seem to bother much when we switch to daylight saving time.

    Establishing an accurate measuring unit of time for scientific purposes that also serves as a unit of time for day-to-day purposes without forcing us to 'forget' all those assumptions that are inherent in the human culture about time is almost impossible.

    Which is a shame really.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 01, 1999 @10:26AM (#1822262)
    Why do the French line their roads with trees?

    Because German soldiers like to march in the shade!

    What are French military exercises like?

    • Pick up your gun!
    • Aim!
    • Put it down!
    • Surrender!
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 01, 1999 @10:31AM (#1822263)
    Actually, let's get our fact a bit straight here...:
    1) It is known as the "Meridien de Paris" or Paris' Meridian.
    2) It is meant to be a celebration of the end of the millenium
    3) It will consits of school kids holding hands for a few minutes so that there will be an uninterrupted line of people near the west-east center of France passing through Paris.
    4) Trees are/will be planted along that lines every few 100's meters so that a line of tress will be visible from the air

    Bashing the French might be fun and a national bobby, but you should at least get your facts straight! Yes, France does strange things and this is another example of the weird artistic taste (like the Louvre Pyramids) but at least they are trying to do things that are nice just because they can be done...
  • This still is inconsistent though. We should really be measuring time in meters.
  • thats weird, i can understand this, and i dropped french about 8 years ago, to concentrate on italian.
  • A. Every language is a kludge, and the perceived "difficulty" of learning a language is a relative standard that differs from person to person.

    I think what he meant was learning english orthography, as opposed to other languages. Hey, far more frequently than on would like, an english word pops up whose spelling has nothing to do with the way it's pronounced.

    In this regard, French is easier to learn. And Spanish has them both beat ;-).

    ---

  • A nation that has a board to determine the proper french form of words such as CD-ROM doesn't attract a lot of sympathy....

    Language planning is something many countries do. I'm not acquainted with the French Academy, but I do know about the Spanish Academy of Language, the counterpart for the Spanish language.

    This kind of stuff is important to with international languages. Spanish, for example, is spoken in 20 countries, each with its own culture, national press, etc. It happens that sometimes people in one country spontaneously adopt some word from another language, say, English, but people in other countries do not, import a different word, or import the same word, but in a different form. For example, in Mexico people use the word troca (from the English "truck"); in Puerto Rico, people say troc. In some countries, there are even syntactical forms that don't exist in others!

    The point is that there is a need for some organization to review the data on the language as its used in different places, and decide on general forms to be used by everyone when one needs to be sure to be understood everywhere. That is, there needs to be a general dictionary, which collects words that you can expect to be usable in all places, and a general grammar.

    English speaking countries (well, at least Britain and the USA) also have this--- only that they are to be found in the form of the better known dictionaries (like the Oxford Dictionary) or grammar and composition guides.

    ---

  • Does "Spelling Bee" ring a bell?

    ---

  • And don't forget daylight savings, the idea from hell.
  • Umm... Excuse me, but doesn't the entire world other than (not so) Great Britian and it's (ex-) colonies agree with us on the whole which side of the road issue?
  • Two words: "OSI Model"
    (Acutally, and acronym and a word, but who's counting?)
  • IIRC, all local times were based on the city sundial, which may or may have not been correctly aimed.
  • Note they never said, "with the naked eye", but, IIRC the great wall of china can be seen from space with the naked eye, and I think that's a little thinner than New Zealand.
  • I coulda sworn it was Lucky Stripes...
  • Hey, I like compound words... gets rid of so many messy adjectives.
  • This is probobly a little off topic, but My US passport is written in English and French. I just thought that was odd.
  • *not* funny...

    Why not?

  • In the case of "standard" vs /metric its lazyness not arrogance on the part of the US citizenry. I think the French are more steamed about minitel vs the internet and this is just one way of acting out their frustration.
  • American car you need 7/16 1/2 9/16 and thats it. Maybe a 5/8's if you doing suspension work.
  • Ebonics isn't US english
  • italian army on manuevers..... |o| |o| |o| |o| | | | | ^ ^ ^ ^ / \ / \ / \ / \
  • Ah... it'd be funny in fixed width ascii
  • I guess if you laugh at Jerry Lewis you'll laugh at anything
  • They better be accurate where they plant those trees or they're really gonna get laughed at
  • Lobster Thermostat? I didn't get where I am today by saying "I didn't get where I am today..."
  • There was an attempt following the French Revolution (approximately) during the Reign of Terror. They wanted to rid themselves of the ancien regime as much as possible, including that obviously corrupt time system. My freshman humanities class learned about it from a reader on the French Revolution. If I recall correctly, the plan was 12 months per year 3 weeks per month 10 days per week 10 hours per day 100 minutes per house 100 seconds per minute The leftover days each year were intended as holidays for celebrating the revolution. I don't remember about leap years. This plan never got far although I have seen a photograph of a metric clock built during this period.
  • That is because all GPS systems (even those not American) uses a spheroid called WGS-1984, which is an *American* DoD spheroid...

    Uh, I have two different Garmin GPS units. The old one has 23 different "spheroids" (called 'datums'), and the new one (12xl) has close to 100, including one for Britain (Ord. Survey) and two for Europe.


    ...phil
  • Posted by Largo_3:

    Just because the english came up with it first the French must somehow either outdo the English, or ignore then steal their standards claiming it their own. I am all for nationalistic pride, I have no problem with the French or any nation celebrating their own achievements, but 're-mapping' the prime meridian simply b/c the english did it first and your nation resents them is absurd.

  • Posted by The Future Sound of London:

    I'm sick and tired of the French and their proprietary systems! They're like a chain-smoking, closed-source Asylum.
  • Let's face it, who wants to set their watches to PMT?
  • Contradicting an earlier response to this question, I can confirm that the GPS service available to civilians is deliberately kept to a precision of no better than around 100 yards. This is called "selective availability" (SA) and is implemented with a simulated clock error on each of the satellites: it is by far the largest source of imprecision in GPS measurements.

    Military GPS users have access to a second, encrypted channel which allows them to circumvent SA and also gain accurage measurements of ionospheric delay error, since you can get a good guess at the absolute signal delay by measuring the difference between delays of signals at different frequencies.

    Civilian GPS users can get around SA with a system called "differential GPS" (DGPS), in which a ground station at a precisely known position near to the roving receiver broadcasts the error term in the signal it receives, allowing the roving receiver to compensate. DGPS allows position measurement to within 2-3 metres.

    For measuring small relative displacements, there's also RGPS which can measure down to the centimetre level.

    None of this is secret or denied or anything, it's all part of the publically released GPS specs. I had to learn all this stuff when I used to work for a navigation company that handled deep-sea surveys.
    --
    Employ me! Unix,Linux,crypto/security,Perl,C/C++,distance work. Edinburgh UK.
  • "Will you ask your master if he cares to join us on our quest for the Holy Prime Meridian?"

    "Well I'll ask him, but I don't think he'll be very keen... 'e's already got one, you see."

    "Already got one?"

    "Yes, it's a-very nice."
  • Obviously this is so the next foreign leader who plans their domination of the world from an orbital space platform will know exactly when they should tell the French leaders to lie down and play dead, or at least put up the glorious Twenty Minute Struggle.
  • by pb ( 1020 )
    How like the French, they think they invented the "Not Invented Here" Syndrome.

    In the meantime, I'd like to declare that the new international date line runs right through Raleigh, NC. Therefore, if I need an extra day to work on something, I can just say I was downtown. That's a good reason, right?
  • spelling?

    whatever, I don't care. What the Nazi's were doing justified that. The fact that we were in war justified it. When the gov't purposely targets civilians, that's wrong. When they bomb a city, my feeling is that it's too bad but that's why wars suck. I wish all these people whining about a couple dozen Serbs getting killed when we bomb would look at those mass graves and shut the fuck up.
  • by crayz ( 1056 )
    Actually the French did help save our asses in the Revolutionary War. In more ways than one, in fact. IIRC, England didn't feel like being all tied up here when they were fightin France in Europe or thought they would be soon. That, in addition to the fact that the French sent over military aid, helped us win.
  • We did this in '68 (or was it '69?) in Iceland, just decided to switch from left to right overnight. (Actually, I think it was at noon or something). Weird thing though, the accident rate fell after the change...

    Jón
  • Well, outside of Europe the only countries where french is spoken in daily life are former - or current - colonies, where the language has been imposed on the people some time or another. In the rest of the world, where french is neither the mother-tongue nor by tradition the language of political administration, people tend to choose to use other languages and that is what counts in the end.
  • 3 degrees to the west. That would be enough..
  • But of course, everyone knows that there are actually four days in one. Or at least that's what the guy at timecube.com says.
    Are you sure this guy is for real? This stuff smacks of Jack Chick comics mixed with a dash of the Church of the Subgenius. ;) Especially the link to AboveGod [abovegod.com] :
    There are 4 simultaneous days created within a single rotation of Earth. The Teaching that Earth has only 1 day in 1 rotation, is Adult poison forced on little Children. Adults are villains of child nature. God is hate of Children.
    ...
    There are no 10 year old adults living on Earth ... so when are they born? Do Adults evolve from the death sacrifice of Children? Absolutely they do. 1 DAY distorted adults dishonor children with a claim that a queer god made adults first?
    Heady stuff. ;)
  • they have this kind of competition in the United States as well. They probably have it in other countries (Germany maybe? :)
  • by Kabby ( 1265 ) on Thursday July 01, 1999 @10:35AM (#1822304) Homepage
    Since it's French bash day at slashdot today (woohoo), I realize there is no point in even trying to convince you that most French probably think of this as a really dumb idea. Since I'm half French, and all I saw was insults and mockery (well deserved might I add... for the most part anyway), all I can do is comment a bit on the subject.

    If I remember my history correctly, there was a great debate as to where the prime meridian was supposed to be at first. It obviously came down to France and England, and it's rather obvious who 'won'. Now, I'm not looking to play the blame game but England and the United States are not ones to speak when it comes to avoiding world-accepted standards (inches vs. meters, driving left vs. driving right, etc). So please, before you insult the whole French population, think of your own country and how it stands out from the others in terms of standards. Also, one of the posts was saying that the French are arrogant, and although I'm not saying they aren't, you can't deny that there is no country more arrogant than the USA. And yes, for the last time, I think this is a dumb idea.

    Let the flaming begin! (right KrON?)

  • And according to one of my German friends, Indonesian is incrdibly similar to German. (Or at least the pronunciation, etc.)
  • What's even better is when you are working on your American car and some of the bolts are metric and others are english. That's just great fun!
  • 1. The Paris Meridian will be celebrated by staff from Microsoft.

    2. Microsoft will purchase the road, trees, and French national archive.

    3. Bill Gates will be revealed as having invented the Meridian, before the French -or- British, and the (updated and re-released) French archives will "confirm" this.

    4. The Microsoft Meridian will be announced, as running through Redmond. All versions of Windows will be updated to use the Microsoft Meridian.

    5. The Grenwich Observatory will be purchased by Microsoft, to prevent competition, sorry, reduce incompatiabilities.

    6. World Governments will shift to the Microsoft Meridian, as none of their computers will work with anything else.

  • This is an example of what the Academie Française can get up to. This is an extract of a mail that I received from a Frenchman, needless to say that none of the terms propsoed are in current usage. The French in general find the Academie rather strange too, however it is _their_ institution.

    (I won't try to translate - it would rather spoil the idea!)

    "
    A ma gauche, les termes anglais, utilisés par tout le monde. A ma droite, les termes de l'Academie Francaise ou du Journal Officiel correspondant.

    Firewall - Ecluse
    Shareware - Partagiciel
    Plugin - Plugiciel
    Freeware - Graticiel
    Hacker - Finaud
    Browser - Brouteur, butineur
    E-mail - Mel
    CD-ROM - cederom
    Chat - Babillard
    Chat mode - Babillardage
    Swap - Permutation
    Polling - Scrutation
    Debugger - Epépineur
    Encapsulation - Emmaillotage
    Flame (to) - Attaquer au lance-flammes
    HTML - Langage Hyper Descriptatif a Ferrets
    patch (to) - Rustiner
    Smiley - Souriard, Mimique, Emoticon, Rictus, Facies, Binette, Souriant
    Thread - Enfilade
    Virus - Fragment infectieux de code necessitant un programme hote
    WWW - Hypertoile
    WYSIWYG - VISualisation Imitant Virtuellement une Impression Graphique

    Par exemple :

    J'ai lancé le brouteur de Rose qui a refusé de demarrer. Je pense qu'il est infecté par une Fragment infectieux de code nécessitant un programme hôte. Avec l'épépineur je n'ai rien vu. Il faut dire qu'avec l'emmaillotage de axmth on ne peut pas savoir si le programme a été rustiné ou pas. J'ai essayé d'envoyer un mel au support mais il y a un probleme d'ecluse. L'Hypertoile est inaccessible. J'en ai marre de ces graticiels, ils ne sont meme pas multi-enfilade ! Je vais demander à un de mes finaud de me trouver un meilleur partagiciel ...

    La France avance...
    "
  • Excusé-moi - peut-être j'ai tort! Je travaille en France (Sophia-Antipolis - 06) et je n'ai jamais entendu la plupart des mots ci-dessus.

    Pire que ça - j'ai traduit quelques termes en français (de anglais) et j'ai complètement confondu mes collegues. Ex l'interface 'E1' pour ISDN (je n'ai jamais entendu RNIS) est prononcé "eee one" et pas "uuu un" ...

    David K-M (dckm88@zepler.org)
  • "He's on a roll."

    If the French want to believe Napoleon won at Waterloo, we 'Merkins are in no position to complain. We picked Napoleon's side in that war and it's not as if our high school textbooks tell us that we lost.*

    *unless they've changed a lot in the last 30 years.
  • Boston is the Hub of the Universe, not merely the center.
  • The Prime Meridian is a global standard - its position affects everyone on the planet. That's completely different than the Americans using the English measurement system: no one outside the US is affected if the speed limits in the US are in miles/hour instead of km/hour.
    Timur Tabi
    Remove "nospam_" from email address
  • by Chops-Frozen-Water ( 2085 ) on Thursday July 01, 1999 @10:22AM (#1822313) Homepage

    "Mankind in general occupies the position between the angels and the French." -Mark Twain

    But then, we 'mericans can't say much since we can't comprehend the metric system. :)
    --
  • Crap, it'd be nice if France got over itself. The empire is long dead, guys. The British seem to have gotten over the loss of their empire. The Italians are doing okay. So the current Western empire is American... I do hope we'll have the good grace to let it go when our empire dies. Else we'll end up doing the same ludicrous things the French do.
  • ...talk about your short-term memory. Think a wee bit earlier.
  • Way back when I was a U.S. soldier in Germany, I remember that the French would unofficially send elements of the French army to tag along when we Americans and the Germans went on field exercises. It was pretty clear that if the "shit hit the fan" French troops were going to be there shoulder to shoulder with the US Army and the German Bundeswehr. By and large the French were good guys, modest and intelligent.
    Of course, that didn't stop French officials, then or now, from making silly statements. C'est la vie.
  • It's cool that this was decided by consensus to meet the need of a diverse group and not due to political pressures. Kinda like this linux thing.
  • Don't quote me on this, but I believe that the French had their hand in the imperial system as well. It depends on what you're measuring. The Farenheit scale (one of the greatest scientific bloopers of all time, due to the fact that 0 is where seawater freezes and 100 is supposed to be human body temperature but the test subject had a fever that day) is German, I believe (or was it Austrian?) The standard for time goes waaaaaaay back, to ancient Persia if I'm not mistaken (and even the French don't dispute that standard; people wouldn't stand for that one). The weights are mostly English, I think. However, distances and areas come from all over the place (the acre is from ancient Mesopotamia, of all places), and I believe several of them come from France (I'm pretty sure the yard does).

    Interesting, since the French are also credited with the metric system (and adopted it during the French Revolution not so much for its scientific value as for its ability to piss off the aristocracy by removing the lengths of their various body parts from the standard of measure; this is why they also completely rewrote the calendar).

    Regardless, it appears Bill Gates has infiltrated the French government, since they're trying to Embrace and Extend the standard for cartography and time zone measurement.
  • And the hell of it is, they got it wrong. The measure isn't completely accurate. I suppose that puts it up near the Farenheit scale in the Greatest Scientific Bloopers of All Time list.
  • Interestingly Sweden moved from driving on the right to driving on the left in the 1910-20's at some stage

    The government offered special deals for a couple of years previously to tempt people to buy right hand drive cars, and then when the majority of cars were righthand drive they basically made a colossal changeover overnight from one side to the other

    Granted this was early in the century when im sure the amount of cars on the road was pitiful in comparison to the modern amount, and the cars would hardly have been zooming around at any great speed. But still a very impressive achievement, I wish we could pull off a trick like this at the current late stage.

    Make our cars a bit cheaper i suppose, and we could do away with the lines of messages at the airports saying to drive on the left, and the occasional crushed continental car that shows up everynow and then when someone forgets.

    I wouldn't mind finding out if my half overheard and forgotten version of the swedish events were correct. Anyone know ?

    C.

  • Prime Meridian
    ISO/IEC 6709:1983 Standard representation of latitude, longitude and altitude for geographic point locations Characteristics/description Latitude is measured positively north of the equator and negatively south. Longitude is measured postively east of Greenwich and negatively west. The Prime meridian is indicated using a plus sign while the 180th meridian is preceded by a minus. Both longitude and latitude may be expressed in degrees and decimal degress, degrees, minutes and decimal minutes or degrees, minutes, seconds and decimal seconds. Number less than 10 must have a leading 0.

    Optionally an altitude can be specified as a number of metres and decimal fractions thereof above or below the geodetic reference datum level.

    Locations are entered by entering two or three numbers identifying the latitude, longitude and, optionally, altitude, each number preceded by either a plus or minus sign and with no spaces separting the numbers. The end of the locator is identified by a solidus (slash) giving a completed entry of the form +24.45-00.11+800.35/.

    Usage (Market segment and penetration) Standard scientific notation for global positioning.

    Further details available from: ISO or local national standards bodies

    Assignment of ISO 6709 to TC211 (NB. By March 1998 this decision appears to have be rescinded!) OII Multimedia and Hypermedia Standards Activity Report, May 1997

    http://www.echo.lu/search97cgi/s97_cgi?Action=View &VdkVgwKey=%2Fextra4%2Fwww_echo%2Foii%2F en%2Fgis.html&QueryZip=prime+meridian%0D%0A ISO/IEC JTC1/SC32

    other facts
    ITRF92 (International Terrestrial Reference Frame ) WGS84

    International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics (IUGG), whereas WGS84 was developed by the US Department of Defence over ten years ago

    WGS84 system was developed it was based on the GRS80 ellipsoid, but computational techniques resulted in a small difference in the flattening.
    When used to express earth-centred Cartesian positions (X, Y, Z) as latitude, longitude and ellipsoidal height, these two ellipsoids result in a difference of less than 1 millimetre. WGS84 GRS80
    Semi major axis (a) 6378137 m 6378137 m
    flattening (1/f) 298.257223563 298.257222101


    from australian cartographic viewpoint new and improved coordinate system for Australia which is compatible with modern positioning techniques such as the Global Positioning System (GPS).

    http://www.anzlic.org.au/icsm/gda/faq-f.htm

    Q. Will zero degrees longitude still pass through Greenwich?
    A. Yes, zero degrees longitude will still pass through Greenwich because this is part of the definition of the coordinate system used by GDA.

    Q. Will GDA be the same as the WGS84 coordinates used by GPS?

    A. GDA and WGS84 are compatible at better than a metre. In fact in early 1994, the WGS84 system was modified to align it even more closely with the ITRF system on which GDA is based.


    Q. Why is the ITRF92 used for GDA, instead of the WGS84?
    A.The International Terrestrial Reference Frame (ITRF) has been adopted in favour of WGS84 because it is more recent and is supported by the International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics (IUGG), whereas WGS84 was developed by the US Department of Defence over ten years ago. This decision was affirmed in early 1994, when WGS84 was modified to align it more closely with ITRF.

  • ahh i see we have an upper class twit. Here's a bit of tongue in cheek, the brit's have the worlds best cricket team [fairfax.com.au].....

  • Erm, I thought the reason we Brits drove on the left was that horse carriage hand brakes are located on the side of the vehicle, and therefore the driver had to have his strong hand (usually his right hand) within easy access of the hand brake.

    This would mean the driver was seated on the right.

    In order to have a seating position central to the road (to give better visibility), the driver therefore rode on the left of the road.

    --

  • They're just planting trees to stop me from making a giant parking-lot/haute-cuisine-drive-thru out of France.

    You're not fooling me, you french guys.

    Oh well, maybe I just didnt like my french lessons back then... ;)
  • Well, I for myself have the ability to laugh about those kinda jokes (well, maybe not that one in particular). And I'm europian, lost family members in WW2 and am pretty sure that I dont like wars at all. Humans tend to make fun of things they fear or dont understand. And I generally think that its a good thing.

    What did I want to say? Ah, yes... dont take everything so damn seriously...
  • *not* funny...
  • fetchez la vache !

  • Greenwich Mean Time: GMT
    Paris Mean Time: PMT?

    Someone's having a laugh!
    --

    Barry de la Rosa,
    Senior Reporter, PC Week (UK)
    Work: barry_delarosa[at]vnu.co.uk,
    tel. +44 (0)171 316 9364

  • Each rotation of the earth contains (a) an infinite number of days and (b) and infinite number of seasons. That is, if you can be at an infinite number of places at once!

    Makes perfect sense to me...

    (my monkeys have just finished Hamlet and are starting on Romeo and Juliet)
  • Not so fast there...

    Per the Encyclopedia Britannica (ok,ok, I know, it's all a British Plot)


    "Santos-Dumont, Alberto

    b. July 20, 1873, Cabangu, near Palmyra [now Santos-Dumont], Minas
    Gerais, Braz.
    d. July 23, 1932, Guarujá, São Paulo

    Brazilian aviation pioneer who in 1909 produced his famous "Demoiselle" or "Grasshopper" monoplanes, the forerunners of the modern light plane.
    Santos-Dumont was educated in France, where he spent most of his life. Becoming interested in aerial flight, he made a balloon ascent in 1898 and then began to construct dirigible airships.

    After many failures he built one that in
    1901 won the Deutsch Prize and a prize from the
    Brazilian government for the first flight in a given time from Saint-Cloud to the Eiffel Tower and return.

    Shortly after the Wright brothers' flights in 1903, Santos-Dumont turned his attention to heavier-than-air machines. After experimenting with a vertical-propeller model, in 1906 he built a machine, the 14-bis, on the principle of the box kite, and in October he won the Deutsch-Archdeacon Prize for the first officially observed powered flight in Europe; in November he flew 220 metres in 21 seconds. "

    Note, Dumont's 1901 flight was in a _lighter_than air craft, a dirigible, not a heavier than air craft.

    The Wright Flyer did fly free, in fact. Soon after their first short flight they were making considerably longer ones. The original 1903 flyer made four flights on Dec 17th 1903: 120, 175, 200, and 852 feet (36.6, 53.3, 61, and 260 m)

  • It's very hard to drive on the left, cars being manufactured as they are here. Believe me, I've tried.

    People from the United States, arrogant? I'm given to understand we're some of the meekest, gentlest people. That's why everyone keeps showering our embassies with doves and flowers.
  • True, being from Bordeaux I'd rather keep Greenwich Meridian (0 deg 44 min west... It's almost Bordeaux Meridian, as you can see on the map ;) )
    More seriously, this looks like history; Never heard anyone complaining of Greenwich Meridian in my life...
  • No! Americans developed a weird, nonstandard system of weights and measurements with little internal consistency. It's only natural that it would be named after someone else. You expect it to make sense?
  • Well to be quite accurate, the Center of the Universe is located in Boston. Right at Downtown Crossing. There's a little plaque set into the ground, marking the point around which all else revolves.
  • | i dropped french about 8 years ago, to
    | concentrate on italian.

    Do you also understand Thousand Island, Honey Mustard, and Ranch?
  • by morbid ( 4258 ) on Thursday July 01, 1999 @12:25PM (#1822339) Journal
    Ok here goes..

    90 % of the population is right-handed, and in days of yore, people drove in the middle of the road. When they passed someone coming in the other direction, 90% of peopl pulled in to the left to present their "sword hand" to the on-coming vehicle in case the occupants were enemies.

    It was usually middle- and upper-class people who could afford coaches/horses etc in those days, so the French revolution changed things.

    After and during the revolution, people drove and rode on the opposite side of the road (the right) to show their contempt for the middle and upper classes.

    This practice was adopted throughout republican Europe, and spread to the New World.

    Us Brits and other eccentrics stuck to driving on the left.

    Hope that clears up a few things.

    Lots of love,
    Morbid
    xxx
  • Excellent points. It should also be noted that the French are not the only society to come up with their own prime meridian. There once was a day when virtually every country in the world had their own.

  • by EngrBohn ( 5364 ) on Thursday July 01, 1999 @10:39AM (#1822346)
    The reason the Prime Meridian is where it is is because of the Greenwich Observatory, considered at the time to be the astronomical observatory. It wasn't because England wanted to be the world's center of culture, it was so that when an astronomer anywhere in the world noted the time of an event, it could easily be converted to the precise (as in not-off-by-even-one-second) time at a major observatory.
    Christopher A. Bohn
  • by Apuleius ( 6901 ) on Thursday July 01, 1999 @10:22AM (#1822357) Journal
    Read it, y'all. Even back when measuring longitude was still a challenge worth a king's ransom, England and France were haggling over the placement of the prime meridian.

    And it's a biography of a cool 18th century hacker.
  • Indeed, IIRC, the original definition of metre was one ten-millionth of the distance from the north pole, through Paris, to the equator.
  • Well, in honor of France's attempt at changing time, I hereby dub them Honorary Americans. Not since we invented the english system of weights and measurements has another scheme been so stupid as to evoke hysterical laughter from every other country on the globe.

    And not a moment too soon.. David Letterman was running out of material.

    --
  • Oh yeah? We have Monty Python.

    "I fart in your general direction!"

    --
  • I was referring to we in terms of the english-speaking nations in general. Yes, the country of England did invent the system first, and then we ported it over to our cultu.. ooh, scratch that, we integrated it into our own culture.



    --
  • by Vernon ( 8764 ) on Thursday July 01, 1999 @10:28AM (#1822372)
    ...historically the french used the Paris meridian for a long time before switching to the std one.
    So people don't get confused here, the french are in no way going to use the Paris meridian again, they're just celebrating it :)
    (And btw even though I live in france I haven't heard about this story at all)
  • by Splat ( 9175 ) on Thursday July 01, 1999 @11:11AM (#1822373)
    SLASHDOT - In a stunning turn of events, Microsoft Corporation (MSFT) responded to France's actions, declaring that the equator runs directly through Redmond, Washington. Microsoft Corporation will place millions of DOS floppies end to end, forming a straight line that can be seen from space.
  • We've had enough trouble with the Quebec French in Canada. Things like laws that prohibit non-French signs, speaking English publically, things like that. Anyone ever heard of "Dunkirk"? It was a major battle during WWII. But the French call it Dunkirque. Well, it's actually Dunkirk, because the people there don't speak French as their native language. Or didn't. Now they do, as they are being forced into French schools.
  • Is there someone else up there we could talk to?
    --
  • I agree with you completely.

    In fact, we here in the United States have decided to align the equator with Rochester, NY. We have decided to comemmorate this for the millenium by building a giant chain of Starbucks stretching along the entire length of the northern United States.

    We will get around the whole idea of this insignificant "equator" notion of it being 0 degrees latitude by renaming it "le Equator de Rochester."
    ---
  • Amazing how people think its only Americans or French who are arrogant. Anyone remember Hitler and his Arians(sp)? Anyone remember "The Sun never sets on the British Empire, Brittannia (sp) rules the waves?"

    How about Iraqi's? Russians? Albanians? Don't forget Canadians. The point is, every people on the earth think their nation (in general) is the best, and most all other national peoples are:

    arrogant
    make bad cars
    don't have enough alcohol in their beer
    are lousy tourists
    should be molested on site

    This... is why we still have racist jokes, wars, AND flame wars on anonymous sites such as this. Ta-ta!

    (ps. This public service announcement has been brought to you by an ignorant, arrogant, intolerant, judgemental, bible-thumping, knuckle-dragging yank... oh wait that's a stereotype...)
    ----- if ($anyone_cares) {print "Just Another Perl Newbie"}
  • Think about it. Flying at 40,000 ft. in your B-2 bomber...

    "What're we supposed to drop these on again?"
    "Just aim for that line of trees down there!"

  • by MindStalker ( 22827 ) <mindstalker AT gmail DOT com> on Thursday July 01, 1999 @04:47PM (#1822458) Journal
    Was this intended as flame bait or are you serious?
    Why can't programmers tell the difference between halloween and christmas?


    Because oct31 = dec25

  • by swilly ( 24960 ) on Thursday July 01, 1999 @11:47AM (#1822486)
    I hate to tell you all this, but there isn't a standard on the Prime Meridian. When you create a mapping system, you have to account for the curvature of the earth, including the fact that it is fatter at the equator (think of a slightly squished ball). As a result, map creators have created things called spheroid's (there are also datum's, which are related). Any decent map should tell you which spheroid and which datum it used to figure the latitude and longitude. Each spheroid is a little different, and each has their own "prime meridian". Spheroids are chosen to be very accurate in specific areas, and less so in others (there is no spheroid that gives more better than 100 meter accuracy everywhere on earth, and as far as I know, there isn't one that does very well at the poles).

    If you go to England, and see the "official" marker for the Prime Meridian, and then check with your nifty GPS system, you will find that there is about a 100 meter difference (assuming my memory is correct in this). That is because all GPS systems (even those not American) uses a spheroid called WGS-1984, which is an *American* DoD spheroid, and is very accurate except for the north pole, south pole, and along the International Date Line. The British have used several different spheroids over the course of history, each one a little more accurate than the previous one, but each with their own areas on earth where they aren't so hot. The Soviets use GK (Gauss-Krueger, which I think was originally a German standard) which is very accurate in Europe, reasonable for the rest of the Northern Hemisphere, but poor south of it. Many American sailors use Perry-1864. Most foreign sailors use International. The Japanese have a Tokyo standard, which does well in the Pacific. No one spheroid is really better than all the others everywhere (though WGS-1984 is better than most), and there is no standard spheroid, and hence no standard Prime Meridian (though WGS-1984, because of its association with GPS systems, might become a standard in the future).

    Most of these spheroids differ only by a maximum of 600 meters or so, which is more than accurate for most of us. However, Sailors, pilots, and the military care very much which spheroids are being used. If you are using a map and you want to relay detailed information to someone else, you both have to agree on a spheroid. Luckely, most groups have a standard within themselves, so most pilots, sailors, and soldiers don't even know about all this. I only know all this because right now my job is working for a Government contractor that maintains software used by the U.S. Military Intelligence community, and I have been dealing mainly with different mapping subsystems, so I have a fairly "low-level" perspective on maps (not that I understand most of what I know).

    Really, if the French want to do this, let them. It will probably mean another spheroid for everyone to worry about, but that isn't much of a big deal.

    Stuff like this will continue until there is a recognized standard or until we move away from the stupid longitude/latitude way of doing things. I mean, the basis for Longitude/Latitude is that you can divide the world into little squares, which is obviously not accurate. 3D Polar Coordinates would be much better as long as you correctly model the shape of the earth.

  • What's that jack-ass wrech that Bob Villa sells for Sears? The auto-grip or some non-sense? Man, that wrench was just invented for POS "American" cars that have like 85% foreign (metric) parts in them!

    What a disaster!

  • Indeed...
    It used to be the case around here that the speedos on American-imported cars were modified "conservatively" to metric... it would say 65kph when you are doing 60. Hence people get used to driving at 65 in a 60 zone and be ok...
    Now with speedos being made for metric system, they are more accurate, and hence there are many people caught for speeding as a result (and having accidents through driving faster)!

    So there you go... the speed limits in the States being in miles/hour (indirectly) causing car accidents and deaths in Australia!
  • by BobRainGod ( 31096 ) on Thursday July 01, 1999 @10:24AM (#1822507)
    French view on standards :

    You don't frighten us, English pig-dog! Go and boil your bottoms, son of a silly person. I blow my nose on you, so-called Arthur-king, you and your silly English K...kaniggets.
  • Is driving on the right really the obvious majority standard?

    There are some populous countries
    with left hand traffic, including India,
    Japan, Indonesia and, roughly, the southern
    half of Africa.

    According to http://www.ar100123.demon.co.uk/signs/leftf.htm

    Countries where driving on the left is normal:

    Anguilla Antigua & Barbuda Australia Bahamas Bangladesh Barbados Bermuda
    Bhutan Bophuthatswana Botswana British Virgin Islands Brunei Cayman
    Islands Channel Islands Ciskei Cyprus Dominica Falkland Islands Fiji
    Grenada Guyana Hong Kong India Indonesia Ireland Jamaica Japan Kenya
    Lesotho Macau Malawi Malaysia Malta Mauritius Montserrat Mozambique
    Pakistan Papua New Guinea Seychelles Sikkim Singapore Solomon Islands
    Somalia South Africa Sri Lanka St Kitts & Nevis St. Helena St. Lucia
    Surinam Swaziland Tanzania Thailand Tonga Trinidad and Tobago Uganda
    United Kingdom Venda Zambia Zimbabwe St. Vincent & Grenadines Namibia
    Nepal New Zealand
  • Hey, if we can all switch over to Paris Meridian Time before the Millenium then we could watch all the MS boxes out there crash 9 minutes and 22 seconds earlier!

    Stop working on those Y2K bugs, we must devote ALL of our attention on the new problem of removing Greenwich mean time to Paris mean time!


  • Guys,

    Such practices of public information reaches
    the bottom of ethics. This is no better than
    MSNBC's coverage of the Monica's "scandal".

    Slashdot was supposed to be a symbol of the
    Linux community, an advocate for tolerance
    and "stuff that matters".

    There is always a bit of xenophobia in any
    national information channel, and having an
    out of context link to such information is often
    like opening a Pandora box.

    People lobbying for a French Meridian or
    planting any nationalistic ideas into young
    people's mind are all from the same vermin.
    Those same people exist in all countries and
    should be the our common enemy. They are the
    same ones who say that you must pay for your
    human basic needs (college, health care...
    Operating System).

    The Linux movement goes in the opposite
    direction, and is of course immediately,
    wrongfully and intentionally tagged with a
    "commie" reputation.

    Many people who commented today should
    understand that in a certain context, humor is
    a double-edged weapon and that an anonymous
    flame can actually ignite things out of control.

    The community is at a crucial stage of it's life.
    Many eyes are directed to it while some of it's
    most notorious names (RedHat, Cygnus, VAR)
    are trying to control the delicate alchemy of
    business and public service.

    This is also valid for the SlashDot team and I
    hope that those words will reach them in some
    way.


"The vast majority of successful major crimes against property are perpetrated by individuals abusing positions of trust." -- Lawrence Dalzell

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