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Science

Space Hotel 120

Posted by Hemos from the lost-in-space dept.
Liquid-X writes "It looks like the Hilton Group is interested in the project of building a space station/hotel made from discarded space shuttle fuel tanks. Arthut C Clarke wants to be one of the first in there." It also appears the British Airways wants to be involved-the cost they estimate is marginal compared to International Space Station - Hilton figures 6 - 12 billion. Cool-anyone think they want banner ads? *grin*
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Space Hotel More

Space Hotel

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  • Or perhaps they've been watching/reading 2001 lately. There's an orbiting Hilton featured in it.
  • I've suggested before that this is one of the few affordable commercial uses of spaceflight at this time. Were NASA not so puritanical, it would probably have been done by now; I think the first IMAX-3D space porn movie will make a ton of money.
    Larry Flynt would jump on this in a second if it were possible to get screenings. An Omnimax (forget IMAX, people -- Omnimax is a trillion times better) theatre isn't exactly something you find on every street corner. They're mostly in science museums -- think family entertainment here. There's no way the Deutsches Museum is going to be showing a porn flick anytime soon.

    On the other hand, "Severed Dreams" might be a good choice. Rerender all the CGI at ten times the old resolution, make a 15/70 print (IMAX/Omnimax form factor, thrice the height of a normal 70mm image) and drop it into the projector at the Museum of Science [mos.org]. Some ungodly amount of amplifiers (20kW total, I think) and a five-story dome. Comparing it to a flat-screen IMAX system is like comparing a fully loaded S/390 G5 (40k simultaneous connections, eats multiterabyte databases for breakfast) to a Presario with 64 MB of RAM and NT 5.0^W^WWindows 2000 b2.

  • The new space "shuttle" that will be done in a few years for the ISS is what I assumed they'll be using, it'll be a lot cheaper than it is now.
  • he put his personal fortune behind space colonization!

    ttyl
    Farrell
  • Posted by JoeyRamone:

    Ahh, why bother with this small-time shit. I say make a hotel on Mars. That's where I would want to go.

  • The hotel industry is in bad times, and things are not looking up otherwise. This deal is the only reason I'd consider an investment in Hilton.

    Personally I'm hoping to see perminant self supporting (in a subsistance way) Mars colony in my lifetime. Not really anything that can make money in less then 100 years, but it should be possibal to get it self supporting anyway.

    So I'm going to take a second look at Hilton and see if investing is worth it. I've already got a guy in mind to be manager of it - I like to help friends out.

    BTW, did I mention that I think the total cost will be twice listed, the costs quoted to make something habitable, and the doubling to provide safety protection. If I'm an invester I cannot afford a Challanger type accident (with paying customers) in the first 20 years. Accidents should never happen, but if they do it should be after everyone is used to the idea os space travel, and buisness trips to space are the norm.

  • Hey, I said I'd consider it, and I thought I made it clear that I was aware that the hotel industry is not looking up.

    In other words as it stands Hotels are a bad investments. Long term though, if they pull this off they may come up with a good investment, but if they can't pull off space travel they are not a good investment. I'm not trying to imply this is a good investment, only that if you invest this is probably a big factor.

  • The reason ships paint a flag on their side is by paying taxes to a country the country agrees to provide defense of some sort. Now a days there isn't much of a piracy (in the old sense, not music/software) but it was once a problem, and you could claim a little protection with a flag. Note that this isn't always a good deal, but it is the way most ship owners do things. If your self supporting in international waters you could conciviably get by without paying taxes.

    If you don't claim aligance to other countrys trials are easy. "After investigation we find you guilty of steeling a wallet. Tonight we will open the airlock on you." (If you really try this system of justace you better have everything in line, since you will have to convince the world that the ciminal is really guilty and deserves such harsh punishment) Cruse ships have been known to dump passangers on a small desert island when they don't obey the rules.

  • Stop for a moment and think: How many people really need the education they have? I knew assembly language at 10, and was writing in Basic at 7. Big deal, so were a lot of kids may age, most of who are and were better programers.

    Now I'll grant that a 6th grade education is useful, since you do need the three R (reading writting and arrithmatic) but many jobs don't require more then that. A carpender doesn't, nor does a word processor, nor the janater, cook, truck driver, actor, managers, and more. Now some of them require some education outside of tarditional school, but if you have been to 6th grade you can apply yourself and learn whatever you want.

    I would of course like doctors to have a significant amount of education.

    DO NOT read the above to mean that I'm against higher education. I ahve my 4 year college degree, and encourage everyone to get one. But Most people do not need the degree!

  • ...and lame.
  • Not to hard, this would be a direct decendent of the laws that cover ships and airplanes. Those laws go back centries.

    I Imagine there will be a flag painted on the side of the thing, and that country will govern it. It will probably Norway, Denmark or Liberia (Normal maritime flags of convience).
    --Zachary Kessin
  • If there are no other laws, it could be done as a private corporate state. That also eliminates having to jump through hoops, or the risk of some clueless gerontocrat deciding to ban a key technology out of fear of the unknown.

    Come to think of it, wonder how long it will be before the Ayn Rand freaks colonise L5.
  • But then it would be contractually obliged to use Windows NT for all the controls. The right sequence of blue screens could send it burning up through the atmosphere or cause the oxygen-reclamation systems to fail.

    Not that MS would be overly concerned... they after all want to use Wintendo NT in medical embedded applications... probably because product-liability lawsuits have yet to catch up to substandard software.
  • Maybe five years ago, Mitsui was working on a plan to build a vacation resort in space. Haven't heard from it since. Maybe the economic problems put that on the back burner.

    A reporter asked the exec in charge how long it would take to become profitable. The exec said, "Mitsui was founded in the 16th century. We can wait a few years."

  • Nothing like staying in a hotel and breathing in volatile combustive gas fumes. MMmmmm, room service?

    --
    :wq
  • This is only going to be for the super-rich, unless they manage to cut space shipping costs big-time within the next 10 years. It costs thousands of dollars per pound to put stuff in space, and they plan on supporting 100 guests as well as support staff? The idea is an awesome one, but prolly won't turn a profit without charging the GNP of a small country. I hate to be a skeptic, but don't hold your breath, folks.
  • 'nuff said.

    Mark Fassler
    fassler at frii dot com
  • That would mean trusting my life to all the NT systems that would be required by contract to control the thing.

    If Bill Gates makes a Space (or Mars) Station, the "Blue Screen of Death" is gonna have a whole new meaning.

    (I hear they're putting those things into hospitals now... hope I'm never sick - I'll likely be dead shortly there-after...)

    --
    Mark Fassler
    fassler at frii dot com
  • Looks like they've been reading David Brin. Some of his short stories, and some of his novels talk about using discarded space shuttle parts (as well as using whole discarded space ships) as material to build a space station.

  • Heh (Score:1)

    by Zagadka ( 6641 )
    Actually, the few times I watched his show ("Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World" or something), he was exposing hoaxes, or at least finding scientific explanations for things that people figured had to involve tha paranormal. I seem to recall in one about the Bermuda triangle, they found a way that ships could sink in an area of sea more often than other areas. (bubbles rising from the ocean floor lower the average density of the water, hence making ships lose bouyancy)

    I suppose you could say he sometimes seemed gullible, but I think he actually tended to give people the benefit of the doubt. Sort of like "okay, sure, you say that's what happened, now here's a possible scientific explanation for what you saw that doesn't involve the paranormal". That's the impression I got anyways.
  • Current costs don't say much. First, current space travel is a government project. And those projects are not exactly known to be cost effective.

    There are actually a few commercial companies trying to establish their own space transport (unmanned, though) and be real cheap compared to governmental space travel.
  • Errm, really, shuttle tanks were chosen just because they would not have to be transported into space - because they are already there. The trick is to keep them there instead of dropping them back to earth.

    Probably the tanks would have to be slightly redesigned, but the point is that they are the framework and are stuffed out with hotel stuff. My guess would be that there is not much to be done, as the tanks are just the foundation on (or better in) which the hotels will be built.
  • The GTK Metal Engine sure looks fine..

    http://www.nivda.cx
    --
  • NASA has stated repeatedly that they will bring the tanks the rest of the way into orbit (Currently they only bring it to 98% orbital vel) for *FREE* if someone has a valid way to use them. They dont want them floating around up there as so much space junk.

    Peek at http://www.permanent.com/ext-tank.htm for all your external tank needs.

    -Bob
  • No, David Brin most likely keeps up with current ideas spun out of NASA and the space industry. The shuttle tank idea has been around for a while in those circles, and many SF writers mine the cutting edge concepts for story ideas.

    Jon
  • Otherwise, they wouldn't be using Russian contractors. This project is being used as a showcase for post-col war cooperation.

    Using Russian contractors has been expensive and has put back the schedule months, maybe years, but the US government figures that its better than having Russian engineers go and work for Iran.
  • Even if Hilton pursued this, it would be a money loser for sure. In the meantime, you probably understand very little about the earth-bound hotel business - if you did, you'd see a long line of companies that have been bankrupted, bought out, re-engineered as tax-shelters, etc.

    Bottom line is that basing an investment in Hilton on this article is moronic.
  • >> I tend to not encourage such behavior.

    >Split infinitive!

    Not quite--interpret `not encourage' as a block.
  • If you read one of the previous BBC articles on this, Arthur C Clarke is quoted as talking about how space debris is definitely a problem. There's lots of small, REALLY FAST junk out there.

    Astronauts know the chances they're taking to do what they do (see Challenger), but if hundreds of civilians are going to be up there, they'll want much better standards of safety.
  • One article (forget where) said on the order of 15,000 pounds, which is about as much as a decent car.
    Expensive, but totally affordable.

    Definitely not astronomical
  • Weeel, given that shuttle ETs are designed to last something like 45 minutes in space, I wonder how they will fare when orbiting for years, pelted with all that space junk flying around...
    -- ----------------------------------------------
    Vive le logiciel... Libre!!!

  • yawn (Score:1)

    by Athos ( 11806 )
    I'm sure this has been mentioned on Slashdot AT LEAST once before.
  • Last, as in not disintegrate into metal shards or last as in not run out of fuel. The gas tank of my '64 Ford falcon lasted about 150 miles, but it's been empty for years and it's still a great home to mice.
  • I've lived in a NASA suttle fuel tank for the last three years. Let me tell you, it's pretty darn cozy. Except for the explosions every time I light my cigarette.
  • What's the big facination with Mars? Why would anyone ever want to live there?
  • Been reading too much RAH again, are we?

    But then again, it could be fun! Except for that frontier mentality stuff... Really, it only makes for the proliferation of banditism and lawlessness.
  • I don't think they are planning to put the thing into orbit through an astroid belt. This is obviously not something that has been a concern with the current sattelites and the international space station.

    --
  • Frontier mentality mostly. It'd be kind of like the American Old West all over again...just with better technology. IMO, you would have a better quality of life on Mars than on Earth, simply because you wouldn't have to deal with idiots all the time. Martian survival would require intelligence, real skills, and a strong work ethic...all things that are becoming scarce in this part of the solar system. "Middle management" type positions wouldn't exist in any type of power hierarchy because they would be too much drag on the system.

    I would move in a heartbeat. Wife, kids, and all. It's really the ultimate geek dream. The settlement of the Old West was done by imposing men with big guns and bigger mouths. The settling of Mars will be done by smart men (and women) with lots of technology and the brains to use it.

  • Skiing on the slopes of Olympus Mons. Free climbing the sides of Valles Marineris. Hunting six-legged martian thoats. That sort of thing.
  • Actually, I imagine that the Hilton project will charge appropriate rates to cover its costs -- including R&D costs -- but over an amortized period. Governments can't do that, budgeted costs are more direct.

    (The previous poster was talking about ISS, anyway, not the Hilton.)
  • The BBC was rather dry, weren't they? :)

    Actually, there's good justification. NASA doesn't see the ISS as a means to an end -- i.e. a space station to be used for science, et cetera. NASA sees the ISS as the end in itself. That is, the purpose of the ISS project is to build ISS.

    If they just throw up some tanks and outfit them, they're being practical, but they're not funding what they see as their primary mission: research & development of cutting-edge space tech.

    Unfortunately, most of the cutting-edge stuff was trimmed from the ISS budget years ago, when it was still the Freedom project.
  • Yeah, and Rotary's rollout [rollout.org] was cool, too!

    One problem is that the ET was recently redesigned, to be lighter. There should be some question, I imagine, as to whether this tank is as appropriate for re-use as the original design. Any redesign to optimize recycling would have to overcome the new standards of tank weight and capability.

    This is a long-term vision, and it rests mainly on the establishment of true Cheap Access to Space (CATS). Look at places like ProSpace [prospace.org] and the X-Prize [xprize.org] to see what's happening there. If we get a 90% reduction in launch costs to orbit, then almost anything becomes possible.
  • i used to work a crappy marketing research job where we did phone surveys for hilton. i can't imagine the questions this would spawn. "how would you rate hilton's space toilet on ease of use..."

    any idea what the cost of a night's stay would be?
  • OK, let's lower this nice technical discussion down a few notches. I'm wondering how fast the porn industry will scramble to get a film crew up there. Who will be the first to have sex in outer space? It'll be frickin' front-page news!
  • If memory serves me correctly, sometime in the late 70's or early 80's, Hilton joined up with one of the major airlines (I think it was TWA) and a major travel packager to put together a space vacation reservation system. The idea was that if there was enough interest (via deposits) the group would go ahead with building the whole shebang - space hotel, shuttles, etc.

    I couldn't aford it then, can't now, but who knows what the future brings!!!
  • Would you then need a passport to board the lift-off vehicle and return to Earth?

  • Then you are not a geek, I take it?

    In your previous posts, it is evident that your grasp of the English language is better than merely rudimentary. It would be nice if most others possessed this skill, as well. Abbreviations such as "u", "ppl", "plz", and the like serve no other purpose but to convince others of the utter dimwittedness of the poster.

    I tend to not encourage such behavior. It is hard enough to ferret out a meaning in most messages posted here without further obfuscating them with inane and improper abbreviations which only make the posts harder to read.

    Besides, "Standard English" is a misconception. English is an adaptive, flexible, and growing language. Standards for use are one thing, but a "Standard English Language" would make English tend toward French, in that it would be a dying language propped up by governments in French-speaking places in the world.

    Just my two pesos,

    --Corey
  • Ramones ? *grin*
  • The costs will be dropping from $10000 to $1000 per lbs in the next two to four years because of the Venture Star (X-33) project. This is still quite expensive but think of the competition in the business (telecom/satellite industry) this will create. Any real good competitive environment will lower the prices and speed up technical innovation (are you listening Bill?). Observe the change in price and technical quality of computer hardware over the past 10 years. Observe the drop in cost of internet access/services over the past 5 years (the more people use it the cheaper it got, the cheaper it got the more people used it etc). Why shouldn't the same thing happen with space travel and tourism? Hey maybe the next step is a mining mission by Inco to one of those near earth asteroids with trillions of dollars in minerals (gold,zinc,nickel etc), to get more money to lower the costs even more.
    I would expect this to quite common in 10 to 20 years (maybe sooner). Now, If we can figure a way to be sure this newly found wealth is distibuted and shared fairly among all countries and peoles, we may have something...
  • Geeks do not speak standard english.. Think about it..
  • test




    -----------------
    "1st Rule of Programming: Don't be a dumbass."
  • > Mars can house an independent, self-supporting branch of human civilization.


    But what if red isn't your colour?


    -- Abigail
  • Griffjon wrote:

    > Who will be the first to have sex in outer space?


    That's another space race the Russians won. They did that long time ago.


    -- Abigail

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