Open Source used in new aviation technologies

RandySC writes " The following quote is from the last paragraphs of the section under Cockpit Contrivances. Dean Vogel, VP of research and technology at Cirrus Design (says) "Typically, to certify software with the FAA, you have to start off with all source code, and be capable of testing all types of combo calls," (...) He notes that using an operating system such as Windows NT to do this "is an extremely daunting task at the very least, if not impossible." Instead, engineers use open-source software so that they can control the source code and track modifications they make to it." "

Linux Workpool

[Gleef]

roblimo wrote:

Besides, I've found that many "trained" MS people have enough self-acquired Linux experience (like, they use it at home) to competently administer a Linux system at work. A smart IT or MIS manager would *ask* his/her people if any of them have Linux or FreeBSD experience before deciding NT has any labor-availability advantages over these new-breed Unices.

Sometime there's more Linux experience floating around than management thinks...

Hopefully, this is one of the things that the various Linux certification programs will help fix. It will put a line on resumes, so managers and human resources departments can start taking note of it. Also, the industry seems to prefer people who have paid for expensive certification tests.

Re: rtos?

[Gleef]

zaha wrote:

until linsux is real-time, its applications in the embedded, mission-critical markets will be limited.

I wouldn't use a standard Linux kernel for a real-time application, that would be silly. The same goes for a Solaris kernel or an NT kernel. None of them are designed for real-time operation. If I was doing a simple real-time system, I would use a simple real-time kernel like QNX RTOS [qnx.com] or Caldera's DR-DOS [calderathin.com].

For a more complicated system, I would use a hybrid RT system like Real-Time Linux [nmt.edu]. Check it out, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Ada WAS a DoD thing ...

[Russ Steffen]

When I left the aerospace industry in July of '98, ADA was the only language certified for avionics. All other systems (ground system, test equipment) was at engineer's discretion. Oddly enough, there was a working group that wanted to certify Java for avionics use.

Also, the company I worked for then did a lot of Military avionics, of which none were done with Ada, they were still using JOVIAL.

read a little more carefully...

[Roblimo]

Linux isn't mentioned, just open source. And a few paragraphs later, in the same article, an NT-based cockpit weather display -- that has been FAA certified -- is mentioned.

And yes, the open source code the FAA prefers is usually written in ADA. It's not an easy language to work with, but once you get ADA code to run, it is more solid than NT and Linux put together.

See: http://www.techsightings.com/cgi-bin/ts_review.pl? 78



--Robin Miller

Might be safe to fly, after all

[Skyshadow]

Well, I'll feel safe the next time I get on an
airplane knowing that the penguin is watching
over me.

Even though penguins can't fly.

Anyhow, it's good to know that really mission-
critical applications are being entrusted to real
stable systems and development paradigms.

----

rtos?

[gavinhall]

Posted by zaha:

until linsux is real-time, its applications in the embedded, mission-critical markets will be limited.

What airports/airplanes use windows NT

[jedidiah]

McCarran uses NT for flight & luggage pickup display and it can't even handle that very well.


Did anyone coming in for Comdex notice any BSOD's around the airport on your way in or out? '-)

Might be safe to fly, after all

[sql*kitten]

ha ha ha, linux isn't even in the same league as real mission-critical OS's like NonStop or QNX. get a clue.

Ada

[jd]

Actually, ADA's not that bad of a language to program in. I've done a fair amount of ADA coding. The biggest two problems are: (a) there's almost no complete compilers for it, and (b) those compilers which do exist take a loooong time to compile even the simplest of programs.

It -MAY- be a hard language to learn, if you're used to, say, C or C++, due to the wildly different paradigm, but once you understand the ideas behind ADA, it's almost as easy to program in, IMHO.

(Having said all that, I'm sticking to C/C++ - JAVA only where necessary - because I personally prefer them.)

Senegan is misleading yet again.....

[sengan-home]

Could you explain what is misleading?

Also... do you understand the meaning of "so and so writes XYZ"?

I thought they used Ada?

[dmoore]

I was under the impression that the FAA mandated, or at least highly recommended the use of Ada in all mission critical applications because of its rock-solid ability to not crash or do nasty things. Is this true? Or has the aircraft industry given way to C/C++?

Senegan is misleading yet again.....

[Bret]

If you actually read the entire article,
ONE company is using Open Source to develop
their application.

Shortly after the Open Source development
is mentioned, the article continues on stating
that another company has received FAA approval
to use Windows NT for their application.

I just followed the link...

[SIGBUS]

Nice to see the tidbit about open-source software... but it's even nicer to see the general aviation industry make a comeback. Of course, it's not necessarily Linux - they could easily use FreeBSD or eCos for that matter.

--

What happened to that Gnu shuttle...

[Kris_J]

Wasn't there a story about a Russian shuttle someone wanted to use Linux on... Does it overlap with this story any?

Unbelievably bad joke?

[TrentC]

There was an article about how a possible culprit in the Nova Scotia crash of the SwissAir jet may have been a fire caused by the overheating of its inflight entertainment system... Running NT on an Intel processor... One can only think, if Linux was used the system may not have required as much CPU (and related heat)... How many more must die before NT is unmasked as the incubus it is?

I've seen ridiculous Linux propaganda on Slashdot before, but this takes the cake.

To take something as deadly serious as the Swissair crash and twist it to meet your Linux bigotry needs is absolutely disgusting.

Um, couldn't it have just been a feeble attempt at humor?

Not that I think making light of personal tragedy is any more acceptable than using it to feed someone's twisted propoganda needs, but you might be reading more into his comment than he intended...

Jay (=

Only in the Moving Map... I think

[FlyGirl]

It sounds like windows NT controls ONLY the moving
map display and NOT the communications (as I first
feared). However, I'd hate to think that NT may
be guiding airplanes... especially out here in
california with all these mountains near the
airports. But, NT usually gives valid data until
it crashes... and if all the pilot loses is the
moving-map display, I know there are other navigation methods available.

Of course, there's still the question of WHY use
it at ALL???

Nope

[Augusto]

The last project I worked on was FAA related. It used C.

My company's biggest contract with the FAA is a system that was developed using Pascal. :P

Ada is still used for military stuff tough ...

FAA far from open

[PDG]

Interestingly enough, I'm contracting for the FAA and of the 2 billion dollars worth of projects, 90% is Microsoft, the rest being SunOS. In fact, we are required to keep up with MS upgrades and port to their software updates and object advances (i.e. SQL 7, IE5, ADO 2.0 etc)

Where the openess in that?

FAA far from open

[PDG]

I believe one reason was the standard MS PCs are readily available throughout the world. Even joe-schmoe has one at home, so he can do work from there.

It basicaly seems like, hey MS seems to run the show, if we can't beat them, join them.