Infrasound Waves Stop Kitchen Fires, But Can They Replace Sprinklers? (reuters.com) 41
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: In a makeshift demonstration kitchen in Concord, California, cooking oil splatters in and around a frying pan, which catches fire on an unattended gas stove. Within moments, a smoke detector wails. But in this demonstration, something less common happens: An AI-driven sensor activates and wall emitters blast infrasound waves toward the source of the fire in an attempt to put it out. The science of acoustic fire suppression, which has long been known and documented in scientific literature and the press, works by vibrating oxygen molecules away from a fuel source, depriving the fire of a critical component needed for combustion. Indeed, after just a few seconds of infrasound, the tiny kitchen blaze goes out.
"We were able to not just point-and-shoot like a fire extinguisher; we figured out how to run it through ducting and distribute it like a sprinkler system," said Geoff Bruder, co-founder and CEO of Sonic Fire Tech, during the presentation. The company's goal is to replace sprinklers, which are effective at stopping fires but can also do significant water damage to a property. Sonic Fire Tech appears to be the first company trying to commercialize the science of acoustic fire suppression. Its executives have already been touring Southern California; Wednesday's event was the first in the northern half of the state.
The company aims to make this infrasound technique mainstream in both commercial (for instance, a data center, where sprinklers would damage electronics) and in-home installations, given that sprinklers are already required in all new California homes built in 2011 and later. Sonic Fire Tech also hopes to produce a backpack-based system that could be worn by wildland firefighters headed out into the field. "We are making meaningful technological improvements on a monthly basis," Stefan Pollack, a company spokesperson, emailed Ars after the event. But two experts who spoke with Ars raised serious questions about the potential for this technology to supplant traditional sprinklers in a home. They are even more skeptical as to whether the technique can be effective in an uncontrolled wildfire situation, where flames can grow very quickly. Experts are concerned that infrasound may knock down small flames but does not cool hot surfaces or wet fuel like sprinklers do, which raises the risk of re-ignition, smoldering fires, hidden fires, or blocked fires. Sonic Fire Tech has claimed third-party validation and possible NFPA 13D equivalency, but it has not publicly released full testing details.
Fire officials and outside observers also want more information about reliability, maintenance, calibration, and how system failures would be detected and communicated.
"We were able to not just point-and-shoot like a fire extinguisher; we figured out how to run it through ducting and distribute it like a sprinkler system," said Geoff Bruder, co-founder and CEO of Sonic Fire Tech, during the presentation. The company's goal is to replace sprinklers, which are effective at stopping fires but can also do significant water damage to a property. Sonic Fire Tech appears to be the first company trying to commercialize the science of acoustic fire suppression. Its executives have already been touring Southern California; Wednesday's event was the first in the northern half of the state.
The company aims to make this infrasound technique mainstream in both commercial (for instance, a data center, where sprinklers would damage electronics) and in-home installations, given that sprinklers are already required in all new California homes built in 2011 and later. Sonic Fire Tech also hopes to produce a backpack-based system that could be worn by wildland firefighters headed out into the field. "We are making meaningful technological improvements on a monthly basis," Stefan Pollack, a company spokesperson, emailed Ars after the event. But two experts who spoke with Ars raised serious questions about the potential for this technology to supplant traditional sprinklers in a home. They are even more skeptical as to whether the technique can be effective in an uncontrolled wildfire situation, where flames can grow very quickly. Experts are concerned that infrasound may knock down small flames but does not cool hot surfaces or wet fuel like sprinklers do, which raises the risk of re-ignition, smoldering fires, hidden fires, or blocked fires. Sonic Fire Tech has claimed third-party validation and possible NFPA 13D equivalency, but it has not publicly released full testing details.
Fire officials and outside observers also want more information about reliability, maintenance, calibration, and how system failures would be detected and communicated.
old man yells (Score:1)
Old man yells at fire. Get out of my kitchen!
Re:old man yells (Score:4, Funny)
(CALL FOR PRICING) (Score:4, Interesting)
How expensive are the, uh, speakers for this?
Even after three decades, I am constantly amazed at how every company has a website but none of them has prices on it.
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I am constantly amazed at how every company has a website but none of them has prices on it.
That's because these aren't products, they are designed systems. The actual cost will vary per kitchen. I understand the companies here, if they put on their website "From $399" and then give you a final quote for $764.45 ex tax, you'll be rightfully pissed. And pissing off customers isn't ever a good thing.
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What can't infrasound do!? (Score:5, Funny)
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Amazing - this story went from using soundwaves to put out wildfires ("Former NASA Engineers Create Ingenious Way To Save Homes From Wildfires Using Noise" ) to Experts are skeptical?
WTF, pick a side Slashdot - is Sonic fire suppression a practical solution to a problem or not?
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But it does apparently cause buildings to feel haunted, right? Maybe this is Infrasound's way of haunting Slashdot.
EDITORS: Wrong link (Score:4, Interesting)
The link in the title banner goes to a reuters story about whales.
nice, but what about (Score:2)
Can this be used to asphyxiate someone at range? That would be the true "killer app" of this technology!
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Re: nice, but what about (Score:2)
A nerd urban legend. Halon doesn't lower oxygen levels enough to kill anyone. The signs are there because at high concentrations the gas itself is a (minor) health hazard.
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And Halon is no longer used because of its' ozone-depleting characte
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It's a fan except it pushes and then pulls air in alternation. It won't asphyxiate anyone any more than standing in front of a fan will.
The sound pressure might cause a pulmonary embolism though, so sort of?
Re: nice, but what about (Score:1)
so you are saying that it won't asphyxiate anyone because it's just a fan, but otoh it will cause embolism despite being just a fan.
ok. why wouldn't someone asphyxiate if they were in a standing low pressure trough?
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It's raining today. The pressure is low. Breathing just fine.
Asphyxiating would require creating a very low pressure for an extended period of time. Several minutes. The sound that does this is around 50 Hz which means it goes from low pressure to high 50 times a second. 1/50th of a second is a wee bit too short.
The description in the summary is, let's say misleading. Infrasound extinguishes fires basically the same was as a fan does, by moving air. If you've got a woofer or subwoofer on your stereo or TV t
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Depends on how big the fire is, how far away it is and how many obstacles are in the way.
What dB level? (Score:2)
I am just wondering, at what dB level this infrasound is produced and whether it can affect hearing.
And will people in the target zone end up asphyxiated?
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It goes to 11
limited use case (Score:2)
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I've worked on many small data centers / server rooms ranging from 5,000 to 200,000 square feet, designing HVAC and plumbing mostly, but also a little fire protection, and all of them had pre-action sprinkler systems, as back-up to gaseous fire suppression systems or as the only fire suppression system. Water-based sprinkler systems were often required by codes, including, surprisingly to me, in an emer
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Speaking of oil fires and water, here is how put it out followed by how to NOT try to put out the fire [youtube.com]
No cookie for you! (Score:2)
The "How It Works" video on the Sonic Fire website refuses to show you the video if you don't allow tracking cookies.
Ew.
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I am using noscript and ublock origin and the video just showed up with a watch on youtube button for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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I am using noscript and ublock origin and the video just showed up with a watch on youtube button for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
When loading their homepage, their site's built-in standard popup informs you about cookies and asks you to click a button to accept all, accept some, or reject all. I clicked their option to reject cookies. When I go to the "How It Works" page, the video thumbnail is grayed over, with text that says, "Please accept cookies to access this content". If I click on the video to watch it, the standard popup reappears and asks me to accept cookies. If I again reject, the video remains inaccessible.
Hence, their w
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Ah. I suppose that's mostly true, but have you considered laying on more protection? It's true that in most cases this simply renders the website inoperative, but in this case I got more functionality than you did. Sometimes I cannot make a website work within what I'm willing to allow in Firefox, and then I open that page in Chromium...
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The "How It Works" video on the Sonic Fire website refuses to show you the video if you don't allow tracking cookies. Ew.
They're on youtube :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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The "How It Works" video on the Sonic Fire website refuses to show you the video if you don't allow tracking cookies.
Ew.
They're on youtube :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Oh I'm sure it can be accessed somewhere. My point wasn't that I wanted the info. My point was about their choice to configure their official website to deny access to information about their product if you reject their cookies.
Must be an IPO coming soon (Score:3)
We're sure seeing what's essentially the same story reposted on Slashdot enough times... I can't think of any reason that would be other than someone's invested in the company and they're hoping to get rich off an IPO in a few months.
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Well given that the story is published every 2 days at a frequency of 0.00000578703Hz does the post qualify as an infrapost?
Gotta get that buzzword in! (Score:2)
Within moments, a smoke detector wails. But in this demonstration, something less common happens: An AI-driven sensor activates and wall emitters blast infrasound waves toward the source of the fire in an attempt to put it out.
So, why was the AI necessary here (besides to hype up potential investors)? The smoke detection or thermal sensors can locate a specific zone the fire is in and turn on the countermeasure directly. Is there a reason we can't just dumb-flood the whole room with the sound suppression (the same way the sprinklers we're trying to replace would)?
Sound system and speakers would be more convenient (Score:2)
Infrasound Waves Stop Kitchen Fires, But Can They Replace Sprinklers?
I'd be happy if they could replace the elephant I keep on hand for such an event. Sure, their low-frequency rumbles can cover the whole house, but the food and clean-up costs are high -- and all he wants to watch is Animal Planet. (sigh)
Lol of course it says "AI-something" (Score:1)