Scientists Identify New Mutation That Enables Three-Hour Sleepers 77
Researchers have discovered a mutation in the SIK3 gene that enables some people to function normally on just three to six hours of sleep. The finding, published this week in PNAS, adds to a growing list of genetic variants linked to naturally short sleepers.
When University of California, San Francisco scientists introduced the mutation to mice, the animals required 31 minutes less sleep daily. The modified enzyme showed highest activity in brain synapses, suggesting it might support brain homeostasis -- the resetting process thought to occur during sleep.
"These people, all these functions our bodies are doing while we are sleeping, they can just perform at a higher level than we can," said Ying-Hui Fu, the study's co-author. This marks the fifth mutation across four genes identified in naturally short sleepers. Fu's team hopes these discoveries could eventually lead to treatments for sleep disorders by revealing how sleep regulation functions in humans.
When University of California, San Francisco scientists introduced the mutation to mice, the animals required 31 minutes less sleep daily. The modified enzyme showed highest activity in brain synapses, suggesting it might support brain homeostasis -- the resetting process thought to occur during sleep.
"These people, all these functions our bodies are doing while we are sleeping, they can just perform at a higher level than we can," said Ying-Hui Fu, the study's co-author. This marks the fifth mutation across four genes identified in naturally short sleepers. Fu's team hopes these discoveries could eventually lead to treatments for sleep disorders by revealing how sleep regulation functions in humans.
Nothing to cure here. Move along. (Score:5, Insightful)
As a society we have the tendency to measure everyone with the same scale. You sleep weird hours? Buzzer! Wrong! You sleep shorter hours? Buzzer! Wrong! Perhaps finding these genes will make some doctors realise that sometimes the weird way in which we function is not a disease at all. It's just the way we are.
Nothing to cure here. Move along.
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Sort of like people who aren't straight or gay. There's a wide spectrum of sexual identification. It's not a disease. It's just who they are.
Re:Nothing to cure here. Move along. (Score:4, Insightful)
Being different does not mean you get out of having to conform if you want to belong to a society. Just because someone only needs to sleep 4 hours a night does mean everyone in the neighborhood should be just ok with them turning on a bunch of bright lights and running a lawn mower at 11:30PM.
Generalize that as you like
Re:Nothing to cure here. Move along. (Score:5, Insightful)
What does your comment have to do with someone's sexual orientation? Your comment is just about common courtesy.
Your comment is more like the punishment left handed people, such as Oppenheimer, received for centuries because they were different. They didn't conform so they were punished even though they had no control over which was their dominant hand.
Re:Nothing to cure here. Move along. (Score:4, Insightful)
Translation: Hurry up and make being gay illegal or else I might accidentally suck a dick.
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Perhaps finding these genes will make some doctors realise that sometimes the weird way in which we function is not a disease at all. It's just the way we are.
I'm one of the short sleepers. 5 hours is max for me. Any more than that, and I'm groggy most of the day.
Sort of like people who aren't straight or gay. There's a wide spectrum of sexual identification. It's not a disease. It's just who they are.
I've said for decades before it was figured out. People don't choose who they are attracted to. They are just attracted to what they are attracted to.
It can get pretty specific. I'm attracted to tall slender women with long hair and legs, with Nordic typical faces. I know this because of the way my body reacts.
And if I might add to the mix, I think the body tells us. I have a very sensitive sense o
Nothing to bullshit anymore. Grow up. (Score:1)
As a society we have the tendency to measure everyone with the same scale. You sleep weird hours? Buzzer! Wrong! You sleep shorter hours? Buzzer! Wrong! Perhaps finding these genes will make some doctors realise that sometimes the weird way in which we function is not a disease at all. It's just the way we are.
Nothing to cure here. Move along.
You might be right. But if you are not, the evidence will be obvious. Especially at the medical level where abnormal defines problems far greater than “feelings”.
If you think we’re going to devolve this debate into some kind of “acceptance” argument, fat acceptance hasn’t done a fucking thing FOR obesity.
Re: Nothing to bullshit anymore. Grow up. (Score:2)
Don't twist my words, please, and no - I wasn't hoping for that kind of a debate.
I was simply trying to say that the world is not all 0 or 1, and some things that we may see as abnormal are actually healthy if evaluated in the context of a particular individual.
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Even that's wrong. Just about everything is a matter of trade-offs. Some we can control, some we can't, some we can, but really shouldn't as the cost is too high.
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I think they mean they want to help people for whom sleep is a problem, and knowing how people who can get by with a few hours a night do it may help them.
Or it may become a therapy you pretty much need to get to compete with everyone else doing 2 full time jobs.
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As a society we have the tendency to measure everyone with the same scale. You sleep weird hours? Buzzer! Wrong! You sleep shorter hours? Buzzer! Wrong! Perhaps finding these genes will make some doctors realise that sometimes the weird way in which we function is not a disease at all. It's just the way we are.
Nothing to cure here. Move along.
I'm a short sleeper. I use that to my advantage. It is an advantage, it's like having better than 20/20 vision, or a higher than average intelligence.
Re:Nothing to cure here. Move along. (Score:4, Interesting)
So the problem I see (Score:5, Interesting)
We take these borderline superhuman freaks of nature with literal genetic mutations and then we act like that's the norm and anyone who can't do that has something wrong with them and they're lazy and stupid and they just need to work harder.
The bar is always set to the highest level. For us anyway. For the upper crust they can goof off as much as they want. I remember an article where a newspaper followed a bunch of CEOs on their day. The CEO spent the day hanging out with their kids, goofing off in meetings and generally taking it easy. But if you read the tone of the article it sounded like they were working their asses off. It was freaking hilarious.
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Re: Nothing to cure here. Move along. (Score:2)
I'm more curious about which other effects that gene has.
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> Fu's team hopes these discoveries could eventually lead to treatments for sleep disorders by revealing how sleep regulation functions in humans.
It appears they believe this might be the case.
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As someone with aphantasia and has had chronic insomnia my entire life, your comment really bothers me. I get maybe 4 hours of sleep a night and I'm constantly tired all the time. It sucks.
I'm weird and it's certainly the way I am... but it's also awful and I would kill for a cure. Alas, I've found that most medical professionals don't even know what aphantasia is, so a cure probably won't happen in my lifetime.
Perform at higher level (Score:5, Insightful)
"they can just perform at a higher level than we can"
Maybe, but for how long? There are few free lunches in biology, most things come at a price. I wouldn't be surprised if on average these people die younger and/or get more health issues as they age than the norm.
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all men are mortal
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Aren't all Presidents? They probably have one of the most stressful jobs in the world. Just look at how Obama aged in 8 years. You can't tell me they are always getting a good, proper amount of sleep every night without interruption.
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Aren't all Presidents? They probably have one of the most stressful jobs in the world. Just look at how Obama aged in 8 years. You can't tell me they are always getting a good, proper amount of sleep every night without interruption.
Lots of people are, and I believe that you can learn/condition to do so. I spent most of my adult life in the military and law enforcement. Sleeping only a couple of hours is the norm and you get used to it. Is it healthy? I doubt it, but it is doable. I don't think it's a mutation as much as an adaptation to the situation.
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Aren't all Presidents? They probably have one of the most stressful jobs in the world. Just look at how Obama aged in 8 years. You can't tell me they are always getting a good, proper amount of sleep every night without interruption.
Nobody wants to show any humanity or weakness:
For truly elected officials - never, unless 7 market research test groups have identified a strategic value to a deliberately crafted vulnerability performance.
For authoritarians - never, because the next dictator is probably one of your close circle just waiting for their chance to depose you.
I would bet all world leaders are high every minute of the day. In addition to BP meds and cholesterol meds and allergy meds, they're gonna need downers and muscle relaxer
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"they can just perform at a higher level than we can"
Maybe, but for how long? There are few free lunches in biology, most things come at a price. I wouldn't be surprised if on average these people die younger and/or get more health issues as they age than the norm.
I don't think it works like that in matters of sleep, or else we'd see that the people who need 12 hours of sleep a night would measurably live longer.
I'm one of the 5 hour a night sleepers. Standard practice for me is hit the hay at 2, then get up around 7. I don't use an alarm - I just wake up refreshed.
The exceptions are since I work problems in my sleep, if I figure something out in a dream, I wake right up, and the night is over for me.
Wife even jokes about it. I bolt up, she says "solved another
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"or else we'd see that the people who need 12 hours of sleep a night would measurably live longer."
Not necessarily. The law of diminishing returns kicks in with most things.
"I'm one of the 5 hour a night sleepers"
5 hours is 60% longer than 3 hours which probably makes a big difference.
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"or else we'd see that the people who need 12 hours of sleep a night would measurably live longer."
Not necessarily. The law of diminishing returns kicks in with most things.
"I'm one of the 5 hour a night sleepers"
5 hours is 60% longer than 3 hours which probably makes a big difference.
It's a spectrum. I do know that if I sleep more than 5 hours, I feel like crap. I tried it once, after many lectures about how I was killing myself as an insomniac. Not again, I'll just go to bed when tired, and wake up when no longer tired. Insomniacs feel sleep deprived, I wake up ready to take on the day.
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Yeah, I'm in the same category. Same experiences, however... I don't think its just due to this gene, at least not completely. My sleep is best in approximately 2.5 to 3 hour blocks. So 2.5 -3 hours is fine, 5-6 is fine, but not four not 7. I think it has something to do with the sleep cycle. If I wake up during rem or something that's what makes me groggy.
First off - I love that handle!
But yeah - I've noticed a similar thing. I prefer odd hours of sleep, and if I wake up on an even hour, I have the same groggy issue. And anything over 5 - even worse.
Slight variations in individual brain chemistry perhaps?
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After 40 I'm not sure I lost track of them but the thing is once you hit 40 years old our corporate system is done with you. So honestly who cares?
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What else does it switch on? (Score:3)
What else does this 'switch on'? I ask because Margaret Thatcher famously only slept for 4 hours a night. Politics aside, she was a tremendously successful person, but very publicly and very obviously went a bit crazy towards the end.
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She ended up with dementia and couldn't even remember that her husband had died. Lack of sleep of a long period of time a possible contributor to the condition?
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I did just read an article that mentions sleep is a way for the brain to shed waste proteins that build up in our brains over time. These same proteins have been linked to alzheimer's. It could be a link or it could be just happenstance.
Still, all the research done world wide on this is encouraging.
shirty job descriptions will soon require this as (Score:4, Interesting)
shirty job descriptions will soon require this as part of your 150 hour work week.
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And that will clearly indicate to any potential candidates, that this is not a job that you need apply for.
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You worked in porn before? Shirts seem new to you :-)
Interesting! (Score:3)
I've had plenty of people claiming I'm going to die because anything less than 8 is killing yourself. "Humans have to have at least 8 hours of sleep every night."
So it Ain't just me.
Re: Interesting! (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re: Interesting! (Score:2)
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Do you mean retired people or just old people in general? Retirees don't have such a strict schedule to adhere to. I know if I didn't have to care about a work schedule, I would sleep, eat, whatever when it suited me instead of what fit my schedule.
I'm sure you are aware that hundreds of years ago, people went to bed earlier (no light, oil to burn ain't cheap) but did often times get up in the middle of the night for a period of time and then back to bed. I don't know if everyone did this or just some peopl
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The eight hours thing is comparatively recent anyway. In centuries past it was the norm to go to bed much earlier than we do now, wake up around midnight for a couple of hours then go back to sleep until the sun came up. This "bi-phasic" sleep pattern became less common during the industrial age, when workers needed to get as much sleep as possible in a shorter time to free up more time for work.
Don't people in South America still do something like that? the noon siesta?
Re: Interesting! (Score:2)
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I was going to say the same thing. In fact, my mom and I both sleep like that - 3 to 3 1/2 hours asleep, up for an hour or two, then another 3 to 3 1/2 hours. My dad and brother go to sleep at like 9:30PM and are up at 6AM like clockwork. I've heard that my (and mom's) sleep pattern is actually historically normal. Sometimes I do need 8-9 hours of sleep and sleep the entire night, but ~3 1/2 hour cycles is much more normal.
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I was going to say the same thing. In fact, my mom and I both sleep like that - 3 to 3 1/2 hours asleep, up for an hour or two, then another 3 to 3 1/2 hours. My dad and brother go to sleep at like 9:30PM and are up at 6AM like clockwork. I've heard that my (and mom's) sleep pattern is actually historically normal. Sometimes I do need 8-9 hours of sleep and sleep the entire night, but ~3 1/2 hour cycles is much more normal.
I know from doing my share of 24 hour duty, waking up in three hours or less is waaaaaaaay easier than waking up in six for some reason. But I prefer at least eight. I even factor it in if I'm pulling an all nighter packing or something, there's absolutely no point in trying to get five hours of sleep because I'll lose more time dragging ass when the alarm goes off, if it even wakes me up. Better to push it, finish up, then relax and play a game, and get like two, three hours, then I'll be moving when that
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That bi-phasic sleep pattern was only for a short period in our history and was mainly focused in Europe. It's far more likely it was due to cultural, environmental, or nutritional norms at the time rather than part of our evolution.
Some guy came up with that theory and spread it all around and everyone repeats it without looking into the counter research.
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The "at least 8 hours a night sleep" thing mi
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So, now we have a new "mutation" that presumably somehow influences that complex balance of chemicals and results in requiring less sleep (in mice). Personally, I'd say it's more like a different combination of a vast number of potential biological tuning parameters, because like that bell curve no creature is ever going to be "pure" and we're all mutants. Babylon 5 even did a story on this falacy taken to its logical conclusion, and it did not end well for the Ikarrans [fandom.com]...
+5 for working a Babylon 5 relation into the mix!
They tested it on mice (Score:2)
But mice are normally nocturnal anyway...
I need 7 hours of quality sleep, but can't sleep (Score:1)
I wish I could sleep better. I need 7 hours but have problems falling asleep and staying asleep no matter what I've tried. It's been this way for 40 years. My mind just doesn't want to stop and I can't seem to distract myself or quiet my mind. I've tried everything.
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Study published in 2018 (Score:5, Informative)
In 2009, UC San Francisco neurology professor Ying-Hui Fu, PhD, discovered a mutation in the gene DEC2 in a family of natural short sleepers – people who go to bed at a normal time (11 p.m. to midnight) but wake up naturally at 5 in the morning. “These are not people who’ve trained themselves to wake up early. They’re born this way,” says Fu.
A new study in mice by Fu’s lab – published in PNAS on March 12, 2018 – reveals how the DEC2 mutation seen in human short-sleepers may allow them to survive and thrive on just a few hours of sleep.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2018... [ucsf.edu]
Genetic engineering time (Score:2)
If there are no deleterious effects, this would be a prime target for germline genetic engineering. Requiring less sleep gives you more time to be awake and do things with your life. In a world of ubiquitous artificial lighting, there's no downside.
Be careful what you wish for... (Score:2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] : genetic mods lead to a "sleepless" class of super-achievers, who start to question their responsibilities to the "sleepers", shenanigans ensue...
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Twas a silly story. I'd forgotten the author and the title.
We already have these people among us - those who need a fraction of the sleep that the average person does. The short-sleepers have failed to dominate the world and oppress the rest of us, so I'm not really afraid of their mutation causing issues if we artificially spread it around to the benefit of more people.
Even if all you do with it is sit on the couch watching television... it's extra hours every day of your life with potential to do someth
Did they map out Martha Stewart's genome? (Score:2)
They'll try to CRISPR it (Score:2)
Sign me up! (Score:2)
How long until I can get this gene therapy?
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You don't need gene therapy. A bunch of people on carnivore diets have reported natural sleep reductions from the standard 8-9 hours to 6 hours. The community's best guess is since you're eating a cleaner diet there's less waste the brain has to clean up therefore it finishes all it's sleep processes faster.
When I was 100% carnivore I too slept fewer hours. I'm only 70% carnivore now and am back to average sleep durations.
I work at night and drive a truck (Score:2)
If I sleep 6-8 hours I can barely get to my last destination 170KM away with 10 stops/unloads and usually sleep in the truck for an hour on the drive back, but my mind is quite clear at 7-8 hours and i'm more mentally stable. With 3 hours of sleep I can make the full 344KM round trip with with tons of energy BUT I'm a bit more crankier and on Saturdays I need to unwind with some MDMA and alcohol lol If I get full 7-8 hours sleep all week on weekends I don't have the desire to get fucked up and let the debau
There's more nuances. (Score:1)
I function best with an average of 5-6 hours of sleep per night. Doesn't mean I'm one of those crazy people who crack their eyes open and leap out of bed to greet the morning. There's some kinda science that makes bedsheets softer when you wake up than when you go to bed, and it's nice to just lay there a bit and enjoy it. If I actually sleep in and get 8 hours, I'm yawning all day. If I sleep 4 hours I'll be good for a week, but then need 6-7 hours on the weekend to "catch up". If I drink alcohol before
I'd have to guess there's a downside (Score:2)
There's a reason why after millions of years of evolution we still on average need a lot more than 3 hours sleep ...
Of course we're continually exploring new genetic variations, so people exist with all sorts of less usual traits, whether regarded as positive or negative, but the reason these are unusual is because none of these genetic variations are outperforming the majority baseline they are competing with.
Have you ever seen a super high IQ (200+) person being interviewed ... and if, so, would you want
How about 2 hours? (Score:2)
I had a college roommate that slept 2 hours a night at most. He took 2 15 minute naps during the day and that's all he slept. He had two full time jobs and maintained a straight A college record at one point for Electrical Engineering (oh, and had time for a girlfriend). The guy he roomed with (same apartment, 2 rooms, 4 students) had an eidetic (photographic) memory and could read a page he just looked at in a textbook back to me. Stuff I studied for 10+ hours to do the homework he did in 30 minutes, but h
Re: How about 2 hours? (Score:2)