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Medicine Science

Bird Flu Fears Stoke the Race for an mRNA Flu Vaccine 62

Concern over potential human-to-human transmission of bird flu has risen after six Missouri healthcare workers developed mild respiratory symptoms following contact with a patient infected with H5N1. The CDC reports only the original patient has tested positive for the virus. Scientists are ramping up efforts to develop mRNA vaccines against H5N1, with researchers at the University of Pennsylvania and major pharmaceutical companies like Moderna, Pfizer, and GSK leading the charge. While mRNA technology offers rapid vaccine production, clinical trials have shown mixed results, particularly against influenza B strains. Wired adds: [...] Traditionally, flu vaccines contain inactivated viruses that are grown in hens' eggs. This works reasonably well, but it takes a long time to make such jabs, which means health authorities have to publish their predictions about which strains of flu will be circulating during the upcoming winter well in advance. If you could manufacture vaccines more quickly, you could make more accurate predictions nearer to flu season.

Not only that, researchers hope that a single mRNA shot could one day target 20 or more strains of flu at once, relieving the need for some of this guesswork. Scher's colleagues are working on such a "universal" flu vaccine. With clinical trials ongoing, it's still early days. Sheena Cruickshank, an immunologist at the University of Manchester, has watched reports about emerging mRNA flu jabs with interest but says that questions remain. "We don't yet know how long-lasting the immunity they produce is," she says. Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, concurs, though he notes that all flu jabs, regardless of how they are made, have a waning immunity problem -- your protection could decline by around 10 percent every month following injection.

Bird Flu Fears Stoke the Race for an mRNA Flu Vaccine

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  • by Konings ( 43693 )

    Yes please, sign me up to take untested medication to help with my cold.
    Yikes!

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by jhoegl ( 638955 )
      Dont worry, nature doesnt care if you believe or dont. It does care if you got a vaccine though.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country [wikipedia.org]

      https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines/keyfacts.html [cdc.gov]

      Logic of the insane "Companies only want to get richer off this!" meanwhile "privatize schools!" and "private companies should do this work!" (hint: you should look at the cost difference)
      • Except in Japan which had a very low transmission rate before the Covid shots were released

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          Sir that's extremely inconvenient of you to bring that up. That's hurting our narrative. We're trying to save lives here. Your truth telling is getting in the way of that. Please desist and see one of our doctored up "studies' that disprove whatever it is that you're reporting. :-P
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by quonset ( 4839537 )

          Except in Japan which had a very low transmission rate before the Covid shots were released

          That's because Japanese people readily wear masks when they're sick to prevent others from getting sick. For them, putting on a mask to prevent getting sick is second nature.

          Unlike in the U.S. where it was the most difficult thing in the world to do.

          • I am still amazed at how many people, even in my own entourage, keep on insisting that masks are a PPE (with the corollary that it does not work as PPE) and not source control.

      • You're comparing primary education and mRNA vaccine development. Impressive.

        Stupid, but impressive. If privatizing education is bad, why is privatizing medicine NOT...? Oh, cause the government does such a great job.

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      You're more likely to die from a food allergy than a vaccine.

      In other news, have you heard that the earth is spherical & orbits around the sun? Oh, & that the USA has successfully landed several manned missions on the moon? Oh, & Donald Trump didn't win the 2020 election; Biden won it fair & square?

      That should keep you busy for a while ;)
    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      by diffract ( 7165501 )
      can't believe someone will take any vaccine after the covid fiasco
      • What fiasco? The vaccine has been proven effective [cdc.gov] and has saved many lives.

        Are you talking about the sensationalist headlines that made it sound like the vaccine killed more people than it saved, when in fact (if you read the articles that had those headlines) they said the exact opposite? They used clever wording and statplay to creating a shocking headline that simply didn't mean what it seemed to mean.

        Or maybe those predictions of a mass die-off two years after getting the vaccines, which turned out t

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      The covid vaccine is one of the most tested and closely studied vaccines in history. Plus mRNA has was discovered in the 60s and research started in the 90s. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2... [jhu.edu]

    • Who modded you up? If you don’t know the difference between a common cold and a virus that just made the zoonotic leap 2 months ago and has had almost zero time to co-evolve with humans, you deserve the darwin award you’re much more likely to get.
  • I think it will be hard to do without collateral damage. Influenza is a very persistent virus that humanity tolerates very well. So there are possibly a lot of molecular mimicry risks where if you target the wrong protein, you're going to have a vaccine induced autoimmune disease. It sort of happened with the ACE2 receptor and COVID, but considering how widespread the virus itself was the side effects were more likely to happen from the real virus than a vaccine.

  • The fear of Bird Flu/death is great for profits. Is that article funded by big pharma?

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by geekmux ( 1040042 )

      Is that article funded by big pharma?

      What vaccine article, isn’t.

      • Can we go back to just calling these flu shots? Until COVID every used vaccine to refer to a shot you needed once and perhaps received a booster for, but the idea was that if it was successful it provided effective protection for life. The seasonal flu shots are effectively vaccines, but because the virus mutates so rapidly it's really only good for a single season and might not work if you get a different strain or the strain you were inoculated against mutated enough before spreading to you.

        Why does th
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      How dare companies try to find a way so people don't get sick or die. The outrage! We should let nature take its course and have tens of millions die [wikipedia.org] from a simple cold. Right now only about 50,000 people die each year, let's crank those numbers up and really drive the economy into a tailspin.
      • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

        Yeah, what's wrong with people? Why won't they drive around town with three masks on in the car and get their 12th booster? I mean, why be skeptical? Just hold your nose and let MSNBC or CBS give you "the real Science[tm]" and don't try to do your own research (ever!).
        • One day, one of the armchair epidemiologists/conspiracy buffs who says "do your own research" won't be exclusively YouTube-educated. One day, but probably not today.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by spookyinc ( 1659311 )

        How dare companies try to find a way so people don't get sick or die. The outrage! We should let nature take its course and have tens of millions die [wikipedia.org] from a simple cold. Right now only about 50,000 people die each year, let's crank those numbers up and really drive the economy into a tailspin.

        Umm, I think you have it backwards. Companies are in the game to make money. The pharma industry literally makes money from you being sick Seriously, take the rose tinted glasses off and have another look around.

    • Bird flu jumping to humans and mutating for easy person to person transmission = another world-wide pandemic. They are wisely trying to get ahead of that. If it does explode the US government would likely cover the vaccine cost just like they did with covid. The rest of the world will have to fend for themselves. They get upset and will call it the virUSA and wonder if it was actually lab created.
  • 1. How fast the 5G conspiracy theories get revived.
    2. How fast the democrats will push to make it a mandatory condition of stepping outside your door.
    3. Whether or not it actually works better for the regular ol flu than the shit they hand out now.

    Discuss

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      #1 is the fault of a conservative media that revels in giving life to things like 5G conspriracies, they own that one.

      How fast the democrats will push to make it a mandatory condition of stepping outside your door.

      Yeah ok, conservatives from small folks to right to the largest media figures told us for what, a year or two, that Federal mandates would be a thing and how any day now, how it didn't work and how there would an upcoming wave of side effects all the way to mass death.

      None of this happened and they get to just brush past it and pretend they never said all those things with conviction, so are

    • by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Friday October 04, 2024 @04:12PM (#64840337)
      4. How fast the GOP will organise "flu parties."
      • 4. How fast the GOP will organise "flu parties."

        Not 'troll'.
        If the Marburg virus or Ebola virus started having human cases of them in the U.S., they'd have 'parties' to infect each other with those, too; call it 'evolution in action ' -- which is ironic as fuck, since most of them are 'creationists'.

        • Ebola doesn't have a fucking 0.1% IFR, either. Folks will use their own judgement. *GASP* I know, right... can't have that.
      • Conservatives walking around with my body my choice signs in regards to vaccines is the most hypocritical shit ever. https://www.npr.org/sections/h... [npr.org]

        So does that count for abortions?

        • It does when you ask real people with real beliefs. Yes, it's possible to actually believe in body autonomy. All it requires is that you walk away from your partisan affiliations and think for yourself (GASP, I know right, clutch those pearls harder). I happen to believe that body autonomy means both. You cannot tell women they cannot abort a fetus in their own body and you cannot tell a refusenik to take a vaccine they don't want. Mind blowing eh?
    • Re:Betting pool on (Score:4, Informative)

      by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Friday October 04, 2024 @05:24PM (#64840543)

      2. How fast the democrats will push to make it a mandatory condition of stepping outside your door.

      Do you have children in public schools? You must provide proof of vaccination before children can be enrolled. Nearly every employer in the medical field has vaccine requirements for employees. When you let religious nutjobs skip vaccines you get outbreaks, like this for example. https://www.nyc.gov/assets/doh... [nyc.gov]

      Hell in 2000 the CDC declared measles eliminated, thanks to vaccines of course. https://www.cdc.gov/measles/ab... [cdc.gov]

      • The Measles vaccine is a traditional vaccine, not an mRNA "vaccine". It prevents transmission and prevents illness whereas the CV19 vaccine from Pfizer (the most popular one) does neither. Also against Omnicron, for example, the Pfizer vaccine was around 40% effective. The Measles vaccine is 97% effective.
        • You're comparing two very different kinds of viruses. Traditional flu shots are only 40-60% effective on a given year because they rapidly mutate like coronaviruses do. They are still highly recommended. Even if you don't prevent illness, you reduce transmission. And even when there is transmission, you reduce severity.

          • You're comparing two very different kinds of viruses.

            I was comparing two different vaccines. The point was that one cannot reason with Measles-level stats but then substitute Pfizer/COVID-jab as the subject. Mandatory school vaccinations are generally predicated on much more effective vaccines.

            Also, that's one more reason to do away with public schools and embrace school choice. Then you can let those nasty right wingers you hate so much go to the same school and cough on each other, for example, while your little pink-haired wokesters are masked up 3x and

  • Two doses then two boosters. I will take NO MORE of them. The vaccines I was given in the 1970's worked and don't need to be retaken. These MRNA vaccines are NOT vaccines!
    • Fact. You take vaccines for Tetanus, Measles, or HPV, or Smallpox and guess what!? You don't get the disease. Those are vaccines. Something you take that might kinda sorta maybe make it less bad if you're old or something is a therapeutic, at best.
      • Fact: When is a vaccine not a vaccine? When you have to change the definition of the word vaccine to include your money making gene therapy.
      • Sometimes. Most vaccines are less than 90% effective.

        You can look at per capita infection curves for all of these diseases and vaccines were introduced as they approached zero with little inflection of the curves. That's just the hard data.

        Add in ethyl mercury sequestration and macrophage-mediated associated aluminum nanoparticle transport across the blood-brain barrier, SV-40 cancers, and the lack of PC-RCT's for modern vaccines with zero liability and the calculus isn't straightforward.

        I went from an advo

        • If you're worried about SV-40 today, then you didn't read carefully enough. That was contaminated polio vaccines from at least 60 years ago and really nothing to do with the vaccines themselves. Pretty sure they're gone now.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    Cue the right-wing conspiracy theorists who will claim any mRNA vaccine is just some 'liberal conspiracy' to kill people, make them impotent/gay/trans/zombies/whatever, just like with the COVID vaccine.
    Aside from the above, also cue the people who will insist that whatever it is, is 'untested' and would rather wait YEARS for a so-callled 'traditional' vaccine, even if it's too damned late to do any good.
  • The current strain of H5N1 jumps to mammals regularly.

    For example, dozens of tigers died in Vietnam [msn.com], and before that seals in Patagonia [apnews.com].

    It is only a matter of time before it infects humans in significant numbers.

    Oh, and by the way, this is zoonosis at work, no lab leak crappy hypothesis...

  • Sure, developing the new vaccine is faster but the long pole seems to be testing. That is why COVID vaccines and boosters are based on the strains circulating the previous winter. The 2022 version was available in September based on variants circulating in July. It was really cool because it was the only time most of us had access to a vaccine based on the currently circulating strain. However, they achieved this by going directly from animal testing to shipping product. No human testing. That was app

  • Are exactly the people I do not want vaccinated.
  • So, everyone who was pro vaccine mandate ( and many even went full Nazi with deny those people healthcare, put em in quarantine camps and let them die ) loved to parrot the phrase " Follow the Science " during the entire event.

    Which I find amusing as hell because, what they really meant was, " Only follow the Science that we approve of and ignore everything else. "

    To wit:

    THE SCIENCE says, the vaccine development timeline usually takes around 5 - 10 years to go through all the trials, ensure its safety and d

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