Crows Can 'Count' Out Loud, Study Shows

An anonymous reader quotes a report from ScienceAlert: A team of scientists has shown that crows can 'count' out loud -- producing a specific and deliberate number of caws in response to visual and auditory cues. While other animals such as honeybees have shown an ability to understand numbers, this specific manifestation of numeric literacy has not yet been observed in any other non-human species. "Producing a specific number of vocalizations with purpose requires a sophisticated combination of numerical abilities and vocal control," writes the team of researchers led by neuroscientist Diana Liao of the University of Tubingen in Germany. "Whether this capacity exists in animals other than humans is yet unknown. We show that crows can flexibly produce variable numbers of one to four vocalizations in response to arbitrary cues associated with numerical values."

The ability to count aloud is distinct from understanding numbers. It requires not only that understanding, but purposeful vocal control with the aim of communication. Humans are known to use speech to count numbers and communicate quantities, an ability taught young. [...] "Our results demonstrate that crows can flexibly and deliberately produce an instructed number of vocalizations by using the 'approximate number system', a non-symbolic number estimation system shared by humans and animals," the researchers write in their paper. "This competency in crows also mirrors toddlers' enumeration skills before they learn to understand cardinal number words and may therefore constitute an evolutionary precursor of true counting where numbers are part of a combinatorial symbol system." The findings have been published in the journal Science.

Hopefully didn't repeat this mistake

[iAmWaySmarterThanYou]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

Re:

[cusco]

I think that Clever Hans is pretty well known to animal behaviorists. Do you also ask if physicists are aware that 2+2 don't equal 3?

Re:

[iAmWaySmarterThanYou]

Unlike you I have studied animal behavior. It is very easy to fuck up as animals are semi random and don't give a fuck about your experiment and if we knew how they were going to behave and why then we wouldn't need to study them.

How could you not know that? Get out your basement. Tell your mom to buy you a pet rabbit or something.

Re: Hopefully didn't repeat this mistake

[clovis]

It can, but the probability of 2+2=3 is very low.

Re:

[q_e_t]

Things have progressed enormously since then in terms of research and animal achievements. Dogs, cats, hamsters use buttons to ask for things and combine words into sentences or coin phrases. Parrots use tablet computers. Numerous animals have been shown to be able to count and more use or make tools than previously recognised.

Re:

[iAmWaySmarterThanYou]

Yes and we still have to be careful the tests are testing what we want to test not some other behavior we didn't understand.

Even something as simple as training a dog to sit can go horribly wrong if you and your dog have a different idea of what the goal is.

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[cayenne8]

Yes and we still have to be careful the tests are testing what we want to test not some other behavior we didn't understand.

Even something as simple as training a dog to sit can go horribly wrong if you and your dog have a different idea of what the goal is.

Yep...if you're your not careful with too many "counting crows", you might end up with them thinking they're a BAND... [wikipedia.org]

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[iAmWaySmarterThanYou]

:-)

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[Bob_Who]

... something as simple as training a dog to sit can go horribly wrong if you and your dog have a different idea of what the goal is.

"No Ubu, I said SIT! "

What about silently?

[YetAnotherDrew]

Sure, but can they count silently?

Do they have to move their beaks?

Re:What about silently?

[Applehu Akbar]

Sure, but can they count silently?

Nope. Apparently all that extra cawing in spring is not because of mating season, but because it's tax time.

Caws and effect

[modulo]

All puns aside, I have great respect for the research - But isn't anybody talking about the murder at the scene of the investigation?

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[Baron_Yam]

They remember faces and hold grudges; snitches get stitches.

Given they have no opposable thumbs and can only manipulate their environment with their beaks (or, I suppose, with one foot while balancing on the other)... They are incredibly smart.

Re: Caws and effect

[Provocateur]

Even though they were correct in the number of bullets used, detectives on the scene haven't ruled out suicide

Re:

[Growlley]

they don't need to use a boeing to fly.

Now we know

[gkelley]

Always wondered how that band came up with the name.

Five is right out.

[Jules]

Then, shalt crow count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number crow shalt count, and the number of the counting shalt be three. Four shalt crow not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that crow then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest crow thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.

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[Bob_Who]

That Gummy wasn't candy....how many did you eat?

Let me know...

[Virtucon]

When Zyra and Bellus are nearby, till then I'm going back to bed.

They can count

[gosso920]

But have they ever seen an elephant fly?

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[Bob_Who]

But have they ever seen an elephant fly?

Yes, on elephant pants.

So?

[VeryFluffyBunny]

I always count out loud. I get all muddled up if I don't.

Dogs

[nuckfuts]

Pretty sure I've seen dogs trained to bark a certain number of times in response to commands like "What is one plus two"? Although who knows what other kinds of subtle prompting may have been used.

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[bugs2squash]

so what dogs can count, it's nothing to crow about

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[Bob_Who]

who knows what other kinds of subtle prompting may have been used.

Oh..you mean like some sort of dog whistle?

So... Counting Crows?

[mad7777]

Seriously? Am I just old?
I can't believe I had to be the one to make that joke. Come on, people!

Re:

[oumuamua]

It would help if you provided a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] And the lyrics of this song 'Big Yellow Taxi' will resonate with the younger crowd: They paved paradise and put up a parking lot ...

Re:

[groobly]

Maybe you're confusing Joni Mitchell with Sheryl Crow? (yes, I know.)

Re:

[mad7777]

Yes, and so many more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
May the 90s never die!

Re:

[mad7777]

To be fair, I was never a fan... but I just can't resist a bad dad joke.

WOW!

[fredrated]

I know people that can't do that!

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[noshellswill]

Seems impossible, but I had a direct experience. A girlfriend ( perfectly normal otherwise ) was A-numeric and could not pass a nurses test. She asked for help and I did the following quiz ... with her response:
1+1=2 ... yes
2+1=3 ... yes
3+1= ......yes
Wonder if the crows were analogically just answering ... YES ... to a stimulus ?

Crows are Clever

[TheMESMERIC]

They absolute love raw peanuts.

And once I threw some peanuts to a crow, but I guess it was already full.
But it would no way abandon their favourite treat.
So this is what it did, it flew away .....
Then moments later, came back with Maple Leaf.
Dug a hole in the ground, chucked the peanuts inside, covered it up, and placed the maple leaf on top as a marker, and then flew away.
Even squirrels aren't that clever - they do randomly store nuts in the ground, but completely forget where they placed them later.

Gethii.

[sajavete]

Gothii?