SpaceX Plans Key NASA Demonstration For Next Starship Launch (cnbc.com) 15
SpaceX's next test of its Starship rocket is expected to include "a propellant transfer demonstration." CNBC reports: SpaceX last month launched its second Starship flight, a test which saw the company make progress in development of the monster rocket yet fall short of completing the full mission. The propellant transfer demonstration would require that the rocket reach orbit as one of the demo's goals. A successful attempt would push Starship beyond its benchmarks reached thus far. "NASA and SpaceX are reviewing options for the demonstration to take place during an integrated flight test of Starship and the Super Heavy rocket. However, no final decisions on timing have been made," NASA spokesperson Jimi Russell said in a statement to CNBC.
The "propellant transfer demonstration" falls under a NASA "Tipping Point" contract that the agency awarded SpaceX in 2020 for $53.2 million. As part of the contract, NASA wants SpaceX to develop and test "Cryogenic Fluid Management" (CFM) technology, which the agency notes is essential for future missions to the moon and Mars. [...] Under the NASA contract, SpaceX's first demo will involve transferring 10 metric tons of liquid oxygen between tanks within the Starship rocket. While Starship won't be rendezvousing with another tanker rocket for this demo, NASA considers the test progress in maturing the tech. "The goal is to advance cryogenic fluid transfer and fill level gauging technology through technology risk assessment, design and prototype testing, and in-orbit demonstration. The demonstration will decrease key risks for large-scale propellant transfer in the lead-up to future human spaceflight missions," NASA says.
The "propellant transfer demonstration" falls under a NASA "Tipping Point" contract that the agency awarded SpaceX in 2020 for $53.2 million. As part of the contract, NASA wants SpaceX to develop and test "Cryogenic Fluid Management" (CFM) technology, which the agency notes is essential for future missions to the moon and Mars. [...] Under the NASA contract, SpaceX's first demo will involve transferring 10 metric tons of liquid oxygen between tanks within the Starship rocket. While Starship won't be rendezvousing with another tanker rocket for this demo, NASA considers the test progress in maturing the tech. "The goal is to advance cryogenic fluid transfer and fill level gauging technology through technology risk assessment, design and prototype testing, and in-orbit demonstration. The demonstration will decrease key risks for large-scale propellant transfer in the lead-up to future human spaceflight missions," NASA says.
Hrmm (Score:3)
Guessing this is in response to Destin's recent presentation at NASA criticizing Artemis from the ground-up as being overly complicated and lacking in real-world tests and training?
Re: Hrmm (Score:3)
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Not, the contract for this (from 2020) is separate from the HLS contract. Surely not "in response" to something someone said recently...
Re: Hrmm (Score:5, Interesting)
Indeed, SpaceX is contracted to produce a lunar lander version of the badly misnamed Starship, for December 2025. The mission will involve flying the astronauts to lunar orbit on SLS and Orion, and then transfer them to Starship for landing. Starship must take them to the surface, along with necessary equipment, and allow them to do EVAs. Then it must return them to lunar orbit for the return trip on Orion.
Part of that mission requires that Starship is refuelled in Earth orbit. In order to carry the needed mass, make the trip to the Moon, land and ascend again, it needs refuelling.
Refuelling is a complicated process in space. You can't rely on gravity simply moving all the fuel to the bottom of the tank for you, you have to find some other way of finding when the tank is full.
The first mission is supposed to be December 2025, but it will likely be 2026 before it happens at the very earliest. Both Starship and SLS/Orion are behind schedule.
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Yeah, orbital refueling is the really hard part. And also absolutely essential to the serious development of the moon, making it probably the single most important piece of the Artemis program.
For overly complicated though? My first pick would be that the most expensive part of the system (SLS+Orion) doesn't appear to serve any purpose whatsoever. Not to mention the dubious utility of the entire space Lunar Gateway space station.
I can totally understand not wanting astronauts on board during the immature
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If starship works then SLS won't be of much use, but that's a huge if.
They would have to man rate the whole mission, including have soft landing on Earth.
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If Starship-HLS doesn't work, then SLS is still mostly useless, because we've got no other way to get to the lunar surface. About the only thing it's good for is going to the Lunar gateway station - whose primary reason for existence seems to be to give the SLS somewhere to go.
They absolutely *don't* need to man-rate an HLS soft landing on Earth - it only has to make it back to low Earth orbit. From there Crew Dragon or whatever can ferry people back to Earth.
In fact HLS is destined to never touch Earth ag
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Well, in theory Blue Origin is also building a lander, due for around 2027-28 IIRC. So there is a backup if Starship fails, but then again it's Blue Origin and they haven't even got to orbit yet. Well, neither has Starship. Hmm.
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Hmm, that is true. And to be fair getting to and from the moon's surface is child's play compared to getting into orbit from Earth. Well, at least so far as raw power is concerned.
Nice to have a backup for Starship HLS anyway, especially since Musk seems at best lukewarm on the idea. And Blue Moon may prove a much better "everyday" lander for scouting and crew transport - landing an office building every time is going to get expensive.
Of course, SLS is still likely to be useless unless Blue Moon is small e
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Well, if Starship is misnamed, so are ASTROnauts. Also, COSMOnauts. Everything is hyperbole.
Progress is good but this is premature (Score:2)
I'd get a successful orbital demonstration before skipping to more complex capability profiles. Honestly, SpaceX is just going through their data on their second launch and there still needs to be some resolutions to the two ships going into RUP mode. Show us two or three orbital successes with safe Starship recoveries and then I'd think that this kind of demonstration would be possible to try.
Re: Progress is good but this is premature (Score:2)
Looks a bit like software / game development. Hopefully, this does not get to a point where only the minimum is met and then in the production with live cargo, everyone will secretly cross their fingers that the system holds together.
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In Apollo, they laid out mission profiles with success milestones. They wouldn't move further unless they'd reached those milestones. The actual landing could have been first attempted on Apollo 12 if they hadn't completed the other milestones. SpaceX hopefully is incorporating that strategy rather than RUPing their way to orbit.
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You might want to talk to both Blue Origin and ULA then, both of them are launching INTERPLANETARY missions on the first flight of their rockets. One is being launched to the Moon and the other is going to Mars. To be fair neither of these missions are particularly amazing/expensive, but neither is SpaceX's demonstration likely to be. It's likely to be just some extra plumbing and pumps added to a rocket they were going to launch anyway, so basically a test mission on a test flight. If it fails they can