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Math Education

US Students' Math Scores Plunge In Global Education Assessment (axios.com) 131

Posted by BeauHD from the not-looking-good dept.
Ivana Saric reports via Axios: U.S. students lag behind their peers in many industrialized countries when it comes to math, according to the results of a global exam released Tuesday. U.S. students saw a 13-point drop in their 2022 Program for International Student Assessment (PISA) math results when compared to the 2018 exam. The 2022 math score was not only lower than it was in 2012 but it was "among the lowest ever measured by PISA in mathematics" for the U.S., per the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) country note. The 2018 PISA assessment found that U.S. students straggled behind their peers in East Asia and Europe, per the Washington Post.

PISA examines the proficiency of 15-year-olds in reading, mathematics, and science worldwide. The 2022 PISA edition is the first to take place since the pandemic and compares the test results of nearly 700,000 students across 81 OECD member states and partner economies. The exam, coordinated by the OECD, was first administered in 2000 and is conducted every three years. Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, the 2021 test was delayed until 2022. What about the rest of the world? According to Axios, a total of 31 countries and economies "maintained or improved upon their 2018 math scores, including Switzerland and Japan."

"10 countries and economies -- Canada, Denmark, Finland, Hong Kong, Ireland, Japan, Korea, Latvia, Macao and the U.K. -- saw their students score proficiently in all three domains and had 'high levels of socio-economic fairness,'" the report adds.
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US Students' Math Scores Plunge In Global Education Assessment

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  • No shit sherlock (Score:2, Flamebait)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 )
    we did lockdowns at our already underfunded schools and we still don't leave kids screwed just because they're struggling so they don't just get tossed aside they way they would in China or India.

    Also the "high levels of socioeconomic fairness" is a nice way of saying they don't underfund the poor kids' school. Imagine you're stuck in a poor kids' school with little or not state or federal funding, a lot of it is tied to last year's test scores and where the rest of the money comes from property taxes a

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by ranton ( 36917 )

      The worst part is we haven't done anything to try to rectify this problem. There are 35.1 million public school K-12 students in the US, and we spend about $500 per week of schooling per student per year. Funding summer school for every public school student across the US would cost about $150 billion per year. Why we haven't done this for at least a couple years to catch up is beyond me.

      • The typical schoolroom in the US is funded at a rate closer to $240 per student per week. Our median expenditure per student is close to half the average. The wealthy kids have enough money pouring into their classrooms to bring the average all the way up to closer to $440 per student (given a 36 week school year) -- do not know the source of your $500 number. We have this thing called wealth disparity ... maybe you have heard of it. The median is a much better statistic when trying understand something

        • It's more than just $/student.

          If you live in a ghetto surrounded by a culture of "education is for whitey!" and you're dodging bullets outside your school and drug dealers inside your school then no amount of money is going to help.

          The other question is where does that money go? It varies per district but a huge percentage goes to administration and other non-education line items. I vote against all school bond measures as pretty much none of them put money in the classrooms.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by lsllll ( 830002 )

            The other question is where does that money go?

            *cough* Football Field Turf *cougth* and into the pockets of contractors. When I moved to the U.S. in 1984 and spent 2 years in high school, we not only had a football field that was kept up, but also had 5 bus services: 6:30 AM, 7:30 AM, 3:08 PM, 4:15 PM, and 6:30 PM. Having that allowed us to partake in various clubs (speech, chess, science, math, band for me) and still have a ride to get home. That funding is now cut from schools, but the football field turf is still nice and strong. Besides that, no

        • In cases of extreme disparity like this, the median is a more useful measure than the mean. For an example from a country with extreme wealth disparity, by mean income Russia is the same as Kazahkstan or Romania. By median income, it's an African country. In the US the median net worth is about one tenth the mean net worth.

    • I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. It sounds like, "We don't leave kids screwed just because they're struggling", AND, "poor kids schools with little or no state or federal funding, are hobbled because their funding is tied to last years test scores"... which kind of means kids are in fact screwed because they're struggling, and are effectively being tossed aside.

      I actually don't get your post...

  • A consequence of COVID remote instruction (Score:5, Informative)

    by timholman ( 71886 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @06:31PM (#64058079)

    My colleagues and I have observed a marked decline in average mathematical proficiency in our students over the past two years. We attribute it to the consequences of COVID lockdown of public schools. Remote instruction in math concepts did not work out well for U.S. students, and it has been reflected in their performance as they've moved on to college.

    My expectation is that we'll continue to see lower scores for a few more years, then a return to pre-COVID levels.

    • Did you even bother reading the summary? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @06:39PM (#64058113)
      the rest of the world, who did the exact same thing with remote instruction, didn't see any drops.

      The problem is we did remote instruction poorly because we underfund schools and treat poor kids like dirt. That's what they mean by "high levels of socio-economic fairness".

      • the rest of the world, who did the exact same thing with remote instruction, didn't see any drops.

        No, the article shows the OECD average math scores dropped even more [axios.com] than the US math scores.

        • Except they didn't. Which is precisely what this story is about.

          • Do you understand that the figure I linked above is from the story? The US fell less than the OECD average did.

            Here is what the story says about the exceptions to the trend (and unlike yourself I will quote it): "31 countries and economies maintained or improved upon their 2018 math scores, including Switzerland and Japan. Countries that did so shared some common characteristics, including shorter school closures during the pandemic and fewer impediments to remote learning, per the report."

            So there it

            • How many lives did lockdown save?

              Data needed: how many people didn't get Covid at all? How many got Covid and didn't die? Did lockdown areas have lower percentage of deaths than non lockdown areas?

              The rest is basic math.

              My kid was home, I was home, my wife was home, we were under very harsh long term lockdown. We all got Covid anyway but lived. If that was the common situation then lockdowns didn't save very many if at all.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by Ksevio ( 865461 )

                Well that's just bonkers. There are lots of studies showing lockdowns reduced covid infections and there is a strong correlation between number of people infected and number of people dying of covid. It's fortunate that you and your family survived but your experience doesn't match that of everyone.

                You might remember just before the most intense lockdowns that hospitals were being overwhelmed and people were dying from lack of care. Basic math really.

              • No credit given for "flattening the curve"? Even if most people got it eventually, better they not be all at once.

                Here's a metastudy from this year that determines lockdowns + shelter in place orders together were only about 10% effective in the US in the spring of 2020. It still estimates 16k lives saved, but it regards that as a small number. Not sure how widely accepted this is either way.

                https://iea.org.uk/publication... [iea.org.uk]

      • You're talking out of your ass. It's not even hard to show you're completely wrong either because everyone is seeing a drop in math scores. Maybe the only point you might have is that the US dipped worse than most countries.

        The UK is down [theguardian.com]. France too [lemonde.fr]. Same story in Germany. [phys.org] I'll wait for you to find a counter-example from any country that has reliable data. But no, it must just be the US!

        You were probably one of the assholes telling us we needed to lockdown everything. I'd wager money that if I were t

        • Do you not understand what this story is about? This is a benchmarking story. The fact that everyone is down slightly doesn't change the fact that the USA is FURTHER DOWN than peers who had the same COVID policies. This is not about COVID.

          You were probably one of the assholes telling us we needed to lockdown everything.

          Yes, I'm the arsehole looking out for you, hoping you and your family get to live through another safe and healthy Christmas knowing that all evidence showed that lockdowns not only benefit you during a pandemic, but benefit economic and social recovery after the pandemic.

        • Instead what you're doing is is your linking to different studies that use different tests to reach different results. I already explained in another post why this isn't the case. What we have is a large-scale effort to privatize public education going on using the same tactics from the same handful of right-wing pro corporate think tanks. They institute mandatory testing for students that is required in order to move on to the next grade in many cases. This testing is very different than the international

      • The problem is we did remote instruction poorly because we underfund schools

        It might help if you understood why the schools are "underfunded" and why public government run schools do so badly [cato.org], student-performance wise, compared with private schools. [lmshero.com] From the Study: "School choice programs consistently produce similar or better results for much less money." and they bring up the fact that they produce these superior results for about half the cost [edchoice.org] of a government school. The government runs most of the schools that US students attend. Thus by definition this is a government problem.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by quonset ( 4839537 )

          What you fail to mention at those private schools is they get to pick and choose who attends, they have smaller class sizes, and their teachers are paid more. How could you not expect their scores to be better under those circumstances?

          • What you fail to mention at those private schools is they get to pick and choose who attends, they have smaller class sizes, and their teachers are paid more.

            All very true. Now the question is why. Why do they get to pick who attends? Well, some don't and have open enrollment but you're mostly right, most do. This is because if there is some little apelet going full-bore discipline case, they get thrown out, isolated, disciplined, or otherwise solved. Why do they have smaller class sizes? They are better funded! They aren't carrying around 10-40 years worth of mooching retirees on their backs. If they made retirement promises, they were probably 401k and similar

        • they're a right wing think tank and propaganda mill that exists to launder bad public policy through dodgy "studies". Anything you see from them will be for the express purpose of privatizing public education so that billionaires can profit from it at your expense.
          • The link was relevant and the research is solid. So, it sounds more like "Please don't link to stuff that makes me look bad and I have a hard time debating against. Please don't add facts and citations to your posts, because then I look weak." By the way, that doesn't address a single point I made nor does it explain away the data and easy-inferences from the other links. Nice try. Oh, and have some other links that say the same thing as Cato did: Charter Schools Are Outperforming Traditional Public Schools [edweek.org]

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by quenda ( 644621 )

        the rest of the world, who did the exact same thing with remote instruction, didn't see any drops.

        Not true. Australia had far fewer remote classes, and (as a consequence) rose in the rankings. My kids had no remote classes, but did miss a couple of weeks school due to lockdowns. Covid barely affected their education here.

        Singpore, which topped PISA, also had brief lockdowns to eliminate covid, and school classes resumed.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Seahawk ( 70898 )

        https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/poli... [www.dr.dk]

        Well - Even though us Danes are praised in the summary, we did see a significant drop in pisa scores this time around.

      • Belgium here. Big news headline yesterday. Math skills are plunging here as well. I am a math teacher. It is... depressing. I recorded a 5 minute video a while back to explain a pretty simple math concept. I had to go to a seminar that day. Pretty proud of the structure and explanation in it. Could not do it better myself and it probably is better than my live lessons.
        One of my weaker students contacted me: sir, please explain it all over because I did not understand a word of it. The worst part is that t

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Zak3056 ( 69287 )

          I'll do just one thing. Keep trying.

          Speaking as a parent of a struggling student, in a district where the median student is struggling, thank you.

    • Doesn't add up.

      I can at least say that in Europe, lockdowns were at least as strict as in the US, actually, in most places they were way way, more rigid.

      • Doesn't add up.

        Uhhh? It doesn't. Hmm, what happened three years ago.... hmmm... whatever could it be! Did school funding radically change? no.... Did enrollment radically change? no.... Damn, I'm stumped! You're right whatever it was, it wasn't COVID! Pfft :-P

        • Well, if it was Covid, why did it affect the US and not the rest of the world? It's not like Covid was a local problem.

          • Well, if it was Covid, why did it affect the US and not the rest of the world?

            I can think of several explanations. Maybe one of us is looking at statistics which are dishonest. Maybe the US had a weaker system that was marginal and already on the edge, just waiting for a black swan. Perhaps the folks in the EU did something critically different like not cutting off the misbehaving marginal kids because they finally can with a mute button in Zoom. Perhaps, they didn't stay out for as long as the kids in the US. Perhaps their teachers are higher quality or more free and produced better

            • And the EU is better at faking it than the US?

              Covid was at best a catalyst to strip the varnish off the turd. Something that exposed a deeper rooted problem, where even a breeze brings the house of cards down. Yes, the EU has better trained teachers with better teaching backgrounds. And yes, these teachers, by virtue of their schools, were equipped with the means to continue educating during a lockdown.

              What bothers me is that the US spends more per student and gets worse results. And that's not just since C

              • What bothers me is that the US spends more per student and gets worse results.

                I agree. That really sucks. I have pointed out to others where the causes are, but that's kinda outside the scope of what we are talking about. So, I'll leave that alone for the moment.

                And that's not just since Covid, that's an endemic problem.

                It wasn't just COVID for sure. We had major issues already just waiting to emerge. That is certainly my experience (having gone to US schools for 13 years) and my personal opinion.

                It's time the US starts to tackle this because it's not going to improve by itself, quite the opposite, left to its own, it will deteriorate more and become even more expensive.

                I couldn't agree more. I have specific recommendations such as reducing the debt load of public schools by converting teachers over to 401k plans,

                • I think the main problem for many US services, not just schools but generally, is that they're designed without reserves. They are geared to deal with the normal flow of operation without any surplus for eventualities. So when those eventualities strike, there is nothing there to cover them.

    • People have been ringing the alarm bells at least since the 1990's. While the COVID lockdowns were likely a huge set back for the current generation of students, the general slide of STEM education in the US relative to both Asia and Europe is a very old problem.

      Maybe I'm being naïve, but instead of distracting ourselves from a statistical blip we should focus on addressing the root cause of a long-term statistical trend.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by eepok ( 545733 )

      Yes and no. It's the just the way education was managed, but it's the new habits that students adopted. In particular, they found out just how easy it is to cheat and they found out that they can get away with it. Today's student writing is even worse.

  • Yeah maybe, or not (Score:3)

    by Kernel Kurtz ( 182424 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @06:31PM (#64058083)

    "10 countries and economies -- Canada, Denmark, Finland, Hong Kong, Ireland, Japan, Korea, Latvia, Macao and the U.K. -- saw their students score proficiently in all three domains and had 'high levels of socio-economic fairness,'" the report adds.

    That is not what the news here says...

    Math and reading scores for Canadian students declined sharply since 2018, study finds. [www.cbc.ca]

    • The ones from this article are an international standardized test, the ones from the article you linked to are local standardized tests.

      I am *much* more willing to trust the international ones because they're the same test across different borders. Canada is "America's Hat". The joke is there to imply Canada does pretty much anything the US does. Here in the United States we regularly use local standardized testing as a way of making public schools look bad and to pull their funding, often by privatizin

      • The ones from this article are an international standardized test, the ones from the article you linked to are local standardized tests. I am *much* more willing to trust the international ones because they're the same test across different borders. Canada is "America's Hat". The joke is there to imply Canada does pretty much anything the US does. Here in the United States we regularly use local standardized testing as a way of making public schools look bad and to pull their funding, often by privatizing schools so rich people can get vouchers to pay for private schools w/o having to pay for those dirty poors. Canadian math is complete,y different than the math the rest of the world uses, eh? Canada here as in a lot of places seems to be following my County's bad habits ("America sneezes and Canada catches a cold"), but lower levels of socioeconomic unfairness (read: screwing poor kids) counteracts that. Hence the international tests come out better. As for how/why the local tests suck, I put a kid through High School about 6 years ago now. The standardized tests were completely different than what they needed to know for college. That was on purpose. It meant my kid basically had to study two completely different tracks of learning. The one for actual work they would be doing (college) and the one to pass the test so they could graduate. Again, the kids are being set up for failure.

      • The ones from this article are an international standardized test, the ones from the article you linked to are local standardized tests.

        Both are Program for International Student Assessment (PISA) tests. Probably why both news articles showed up on the same day the results were released.

      • Why?

        The local ones are more likely to be comparing against similar cohorts.

        Are the cohorts of students of similar characteristics internationally? Or a wide enough sample across the nation to be statistically comparable internationally?

        I donâ(TM)t know, but I would be surprised if they were.

  • Very unexpected outcome (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Zolmarchus ( 2646979 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @06:33PM (#64058085)

    I thought for sure that holding back gifted students, teaching that any math answers can be right if your socioeconomic background is on the list of Disadvantaged Ones, and adjusting the exams so that no one is left behind, will SURELY lead to better outcomes on the global scene.

    • You just don't understand new math. It's... quantum.. .or statiscal... or something. Answers are probably right, if you ask the question over and over and average it. Or you measure it using a box, a pet, and geiger counter and one atom of something or other. Either way, marking math as just plain right or wrong seems... disconnected from modernity. Things have to be more complicated and ethereal than that, lest people think they're... dumb.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      According to TFA the issue is to do with lack of motivation and personal skills. Apparently US students were less motivated in the exams, and less able to sustain motivation from the starting level over the course of the exams.

      So if anything it seems to be a lack of what TFA describes as "character skills", like self control and self motivation. It doesn't speculate as to why US students are lacking in those areas. Maybe it's shorter attention spans, but TikTok is available in countries that did much better

    • how the US education works. No, we do not "hold back gifted students". We have an entire separate education system for them made up of a complex web of Magnet schools and Advanced Placement courses designed to funnel the smart kids into profitable jobs for corporate America.

      To get into those programs you have to be both smart and also obsessed with homework. I was neither so I ended up in the same classes as everyone else.

      I don't know how to tell you this, but if you feel like you were "held back" i
  • The decline in the score was less than the decline in the global average score, and the same time period saw the scores and rank for reading and science skyrocket.

    • The decline in the score was less than the decline in the global average score

      "Global average" includes lots of third-world countries, which may not be setting the bar very high for the country with the world's largest economy. It's far fairer to compare the US to countries of similar economic status. And while the US experienced less decline than the average country, our scores are still well below average. So we're still behind, but other countries are declining down to our level.

      and the same time per

      • I meant OECD rather than "global". In other words, the decline in US math scores was lower than the decline in the OECD average. OECD is overwhelmingly composed of developed countries. And yes, we are still behind in absolute score, but our scores were less damaged on average.

        Yes, jumping up to highs not seen in 23 years is indeed skyrocketing by any reasonable standard, especially while the OECD average collapses for the same time period.

  • Post-pandemic bubble (Score:3)

    by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @06:33PM (#64058093)
    The online learning during the COVID lockdowns was bad. We have a bubble that's going to be working it's way through the system for the next decade. The problem is that our education system is rotten to the common core and is more interested in pointing fingers as to why Johnny is bad at math than actually teaching Johnny math. Every level of the system just kicks the can down the road and expects someone else to magically solve the problem.

    • more interested in pointing fingers as to why Johnny is bad at math

      Maybe. Maybe it's also started to simply be seen as a race to see who can flood the other partisan side's kids with their partisan side's propaganda. Communist thinkers and leaders have emphasized the importance of education, including early indoctrination, to instill socialist or communist ideals in young minds. Vladimir Lenin, famously said, "Give me four years to teach the children, and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted."

  • maybe evolution is slowly dumbing humanity down and in another few millennium humanity will be back to the same state as a primitive hunter/gatherer tribes

  • Welp, that's it. Kids is doin' the maths bad. Best shut down this wholes country now.

  • I know. I'm old. But goddamned, if I would of had a fucking unlimited knowledge device in my hands all the time growing up I would be even smarter. All I had was libraries and book stores.

    • But goddamned, if I would of had a fucking unlimited knowledge device in my hands all the time growing up I would be even smarter.

      Trouble is it comes inseparably attached unlimited distraction device.

  • PISA compares worst in USA with best in others (Score:5, Insightful)

    by EMB Numbers ( 934125 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @06:55PM (#64058165)

    PISA tests were administered in Philadelphia public school, Los Angelis public schools, and Tallahassee public schools. None of those school districts are representative of the USA student population. Philadelphia is one of the worst districts in the USA.

    The test is administered in large city districts to minimize the logistics. In most countries, the best and brightest live in inner cities, and that's where the best schools can be found. In the USA, the best schools are generally in the suburbs and some are private. The best schools and best students are not represented in the USA PISA scores.

    PISA literally compares the worst students in the USA with the best students in other nations.

    https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pi... [ed.gov]
    In 2022, only 5,661 students in the USA were asked to take the test, and only 4552 students took the Core assessment. There are 77 MILLION students in the USA.

    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by rogoshen1 ( 2922505 )

      Wait wait, are you insinuating that inner city "youts" in the US are not as educationally viable as suburban kids? Can this issue actually be discussed without some progressive nitwit chiming in with "purely socioeconomic reasons"? Basically it would also be interesting to see the test scores over time as the US becomes more diverse. I know I'll get modded into oblivion and rustle some progressive jimmies, and that's fine. (echo chambers are fun.)

      Maybe there's a correlation there? How can a problem be w

      • You're a fucking idiot. If you think you're not able to "discuss" something because other people can comment with opposing political opinions, you're not worried about being intellectually stifled, you're worried about getting arguments you have no hope of addressing. Moderation on slashdot is pretty much nonexistent. If you have something "worthwhile" to discuss, how about you "discuss" it instead of crying about people disagreeing with you being able to respond.

    • None of those school districts are representative of the USA student population.

      They don't need to be. We are talking about trends, not analysing the USA student population at a single point in time.

    • The Los Angeles City School District used to be among the best education you could get from public schools. I went through that system decades ago before they screwed things up with social programs (forced bussing) and lowering standards. When I went to college in another state one of the professors asked where I went to school. When I told him he told me what required courses I could test out of because I had the right background by going to the Los Angeles City School District. Sure enough I was able

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Ksevio ( 865461 )

        The problem is that without standard curriculum like Common Core, it's up to the teachers to create programs and that leaves the new and bad teachers at a disadvantage. Yes, you and many others have had a great experience with teachers that knew what they were doing, but even now if you take a kid from a southern state and drop them in Massachusetts they're going to struggle because they're so behind.

        Common Core doesn't negate students taking different levels of classes, it's just setting standards for whe

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by JoeRobe ( 207552 )

      But by that logic then the US's "worst" students are somehow above average at reading (according to the article's chart)?

    • In 2022, only 5,661 students in the USA were asked to take the test, and only 4552 students took the Core assessment. There are 77 MILLION students in the USA.

      This Is The Dumbest Goddamn Thing You Can Say About Statistics [madmath.com]

    • i.e. that there are "best schools" at all is a problem. It says it right there in TFS:

      high levels of socio-economic fairness

  • I work in Education (Score:5, Informative)

    by Archangel Michael ( 180766 ) on Tuesday December 05, 2023 @07:10PM (#64058215) Journal

    Not in the classroom, in IT services.

    The issues we have in school are largely solvable if we stop making excuses. Money isn't the primary issue. Teachers aren't the primary issues. Administration isn't the primary issue. Home life IS the primary issue. It's a reason, not an excuse. To fix the problem, we need parental classes for those with under performing students. We aren't going to do that, because we make excuses why we can't.

    Culture also matters. But what do I know? After all, math is racist (excuse why we can't) https://www.newsweek.com/math-... [newsweek.com]

    • There are dozens of articles explaining what is going on https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
    • it'll make things worse. The overworked and overtired parents will resent the kids for having to take those classes which won't fix any of the underlining issues. That in turn will make home life worse. A lot worse. Best case a lot of extra yelling, worst case beatings.

      No, culture doesn't matter. Yes, math can be racists. Or at least classist. Good example, poor kids were failing tests because the tests asked things like "how many saucers?". Poor kids had never seen a saucer in their life, they were luc
  • Since 1983, politicians in the USA have been saying that their education system is "broken" (See the report that started it all called, "A Nation at Risk"). The USA has been consistently ranking below average among OECD countries not only in PISA test scores but also in other international tests like PIRLS. I guess if their leaders keep shouting from the rooftops that their education is no good for 40 years, people are gonna believe it & performance will follow expectations. I believe it's called the Go
    • Yep. Only in Texas this definitely started in 1978-79. There was a sea change that year in the schools. This all happened because states were finally being forced to fund poor black schools at the same level as white schools, so they came up with a new system based on metrics that would allow them to continue to under fund historically bad schools that had never been funded properly in the first place. They started blaming the teachers and administrators at these schools and screaming about accountabili
    • This is also a time, every three years, when journalists demonstrate how science illiterate they are on a grand scale. Remember Finland, that beacon of educational virtue & people rushing over to visit what their exemplary education system was doing? Well, they should've done that 10 years before because those are the models & policies that drove the results ten years later. Instead, they reported on what Finland was doing when the results came out, they also misreported a lot of stuff, wildly misin

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Bumbul ( 7920730 )

        Where's the reporting on that? Why aren't we hearing about the effects of their sub-optimal education policies now?

        https://yle.fi/a/74-20063678 [yle.fi] There you go. That's by Finnish Broadcasting Corporation.
        As I see it, the decline is not about poor education methods or policies. I see two major factors contributing to this in Finland:

        1) Immigration: Probably the immigrants are every bit as clever and bright as native Finnish students, but having a more mixed student population with different cultural backgrounds and languages makes it more difficult to provide high quality education for everyone. Teaching must be tailo

  • A lot of these countries tested have a blue collar and white collar track, and they don't test the blue collar track students. So, that means a lot of them are only testing the top 50% of their student body. Been a huge issue with trying to track how the US scores in math for decades.

  • They need more extreme leftist indoctrination in grade school, that should fix it!

  • Anecdote (Score:3)

    by sgunhouse ( 1050564 ) on Wednesday December 06, 2023 @12:21AM (#64058927)
    I had opportunity to work with a home-schooled high school student in my current job. As a former teacher and professor in the field of Mathematics (or Maths as our friends across the pond refer to it), I had several occasions to be disappointed in his understanding of the topic. I mean, I was flabbergasted when he wasn't aware how to quickly multiply or divide by ten, which to me is even easier than determining that 1 + 1 = 2. And that was just as COVID was really starting in this country, so I can't blame it on that.

    I don't know, maybe we can blame it on widespread availability of calculators. Why teach the basics when a simple device (or phone app, as even grade school kids seem to have those now) can do that for you? Answer - you need those basics to be able to generalize. So no, not truly news to me. Sad, but not news.

  • "Lockdowns" didn't cause this. Everyone seems to forget that students are off for 3+ months every year and nobody cries about "Summer learning loss." It's not "immunity debt," either. That's a made-up term meant to convince people it's a good idea to catch diseases.

    Covid can and does affect every part of the body, particularly the vascular system. There are many high quality studies on this now.

    Covid literally causes brain damage. It's harder to do math with shrunken brains, with fused neurons, with dama

  • Americans just don't want educated children. Not for the last generation and not for those coming.

    All the words typing don't change the ignorant puddin. All the pride is wasted foolishness when johnny/ie/x can't read or add stuff or do problems and things. Great job! Did I get paid yet?

  • The graphs do not start at zero, so exaggerate differences.
    Total range of scores is not stated.
    Differences may be trivial even if statistically significant. For example for all we know a single wrong answer might account for the differences.

  • I need to get the hell out of here. The US is slowly becoming more and more like Italy of the 70's, Brazil or Paraguay: corrupt, ignorant, stagnant, not a world leader, and dangerous. So, can I formally request asylum in Finland with a /. comment? :@B

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