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Medicine Mars NASA Space

Breakthrough Kidney Stone Procedure Makes It Possible For Astronauts To Travel To Mars (komonews.com) 70

Posted by BeauHD from the multi-planetary-species dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from KOMO News: A groundbreaking medical procedure for those with kidney stones will soon be offered at the University of Washington after more than two decades of research. It will also give astronauts the go ahead they need from NASA to travel to Mars. It's a groundbreaking procedure to get rid of painful stones while you're awake, no anesthesia needed. "This has the potential to be game changing," said Dr. Kennedy Hall with UW Medicine. Still being run through clinical trials at UW Medicine, the procedure called burst wave lithotripsy uses an ultrasound wand and soundwaves to break apart the kidney stone. Ultrasonic propulsion is then used to move the stone fragments out, potentially giving patients relief in 10 minutes or less.

This technology is also making it possible for astronauts to travel to Mars, since astronauts are at a greater risk for developing kidney stones during space travel. It's so important to NASA, the space agency has been funding the research for the last 10 years. "They could potentially use this technology while there, to help break a stone or push it to where they could help stay on their mission and not have to come back to land," said Harper. The research has been published in the Journal of Urology.
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Breakthrough Kidney Stone Procedure Makes It Possible For Astronauts To Travel To Mars More

Breakthrough Kidney Stone Procedure Makes It Possible For Astronauts To Travel To Mars

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  • If this breakthrough makes it possible to to go to Mars - how does it address the much bigger problem with radiation exposure during the trip?

    (Yeah yeah I know... they'll just travel at night)

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by cusco ( 717999 )

      This has nothing to do with radiation exposure, it helps fix a different problem. As far as I know the only reliable solution so far for radiation exposure is shielding with mass, and they've had those calculations since the '70s. It wasn't seen as an insurmountable problem given sufficient funding and research, but of course funding had to be diverted to the Pentagon. Had funding continued at the 4.5% of the Federal budget NASA had at the peak of Apollo they reasonably expected to be opening the first p

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Viol8 ( 599362 )

        "This has nothing to do with radiation exposure, it helps fix a different problem"

        Wow, no fooling you is there. I suspect he was being ironic. There are a number of big health issues wrt to spending a long time in space and Mars and kidney stones isn't one of them. Radiation exposure is probably the biggest along with > year in zero G there and ditto back, the extremely nasty martian soil dust which is so fine there's almost no way to keep it out of the spacecraft and is not only corrosive but could caus

        • Re:Great headline (Score:4, Interesting)

          by cusco ( 717999 ) <[brian.bixby] [at] [gmail.com]> on Saturday October 28, 2023 @09:00AM (#63961437)

          Actually yes, kidney stones *is* one of the issues, since they're so completely debilitating and apparently fairly common among long term (> 3 month) space travelers. A family friend was in the emergency room with a kidney stone and another patient looked at him doubled over in pain and said, "Kidney stone? I've had five kids and one kidney stone, and I'd prefer to birth five more right in a row than have another kidney stone." That's how debilitating they are, it means the astronaut is pretty much out of action until it passes, which is not a good situation to have if something critical needs their attention.

          As to why? "Because we can" is a perfectly acceptable answer to a lot of people, I'd go in an instant even if it were a one-way trip. I rather disagree about the wisdom of hauling myself out of one gravity well only to drop into another, I find colonization of space to be more interesting than colonization of planets, but if it's not me paying the bill I wouldn't complain much. My ancestors left an established life in Cornwall to spend weeks on a miserable leaking ship and then cut down trees in the frontier of Connecticut, braving bears, Frenchmen, Indians, starvation and freezing, I'm sure people back home asked themselves why they thought that was an appropriate place for humans to live as well.

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by Viol8 ( 599362 )

            "I'd go in an instant even if it were a one-way trip."

            Yeah, of course you would pal. Its easy to play the tough guy adventurer card when you know there's zero chance of ever being called up.

            "why they thought that was an appropriate place for humans to live as well."

            Probably because it had a breathable atmosphere, water, food , building material and land they could farm. Other than that, who can guess eh?

            • Probably because it had a breathable atmosphere, water, food , building material and land they could farm. Other than that, who can guess eh?

              Funny how you just ignored the sentence right before that: "braving bears, Frenchmen, Indians, starvation and freezing.". Those were the challenging conditions that existed in Connecticut at the time that Cornwall did not have that the poster was talking about. The freezing condition still exists in Connecticut by the way.

              • Starvation and being throw off or even murdered for their land was one of the main drivers of emigration from the UK and ireland so what had they to lose? Go learn some history. And the worst environmental conditions on earth are a paradise compared to mars.

                • Starvation and being throw off or even murdered for their land was one of the main drivers of emigration from the UK and ireland so what had they to lose?

                  I don't know about you but DEATH is somewhat permanent. Unless you live in a world where resurrection is common.

                  Go learn some history.

                  BAHAHAHAHAA. You do know that from history we know what happened but people living at that time do not have the benefit of hindsight. Or a time machine. You viewpoint seems rather ignorant of that.

                  And the worst environmental conditions on earth are a paradise compared to mars.

                  Again DEATH is pretty much a worse condition than environmental ones. At least most people would prefer environmental ones on Earth over death.

      • Defense spending in 1960 was 9% of GDP. Defense spending in 2021 was 3.5% of GDP. It wasn't defense spending that took money from NASA.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by cusco ( 717999 )

          Just a quibble, but the US doesn't do any actual "defense" spending, we have no enemies capable of attacking us in any meaningful way. It was a mistake to allow the Department of War to rename itself after WWII.

    • If this breakthrough makes it possible to to go to Mars - how does it address the much bigger problem with radiation exposure during the trip?

      I assume because NASA already has plans for radiation exposure but this was a technical problem that until this point had no solution. Forgive me but I assume radiation exposure is not exactly a brand new problem for NASA.

  • Kidney stones hurt like a motherfucker (Score:4, Informative)

    by iAmWaySmarterThanYou ( 10095012 ) on Friday October 27, 2023 @11:04PM (#63960617)

    But they didn't kill you. They just make you wish you were dead. Pain pills, muscle relaxers, a lot of water and a few hours is all most stones need.
    Even the worst one I had which hurt so badly I went pale and was close to passing out from the pain wouldn't stop me from space travel.

    However, that being said, if this works and becomes generally available, I'll be the first civilian to sign up for treatment. I've had them 4 times and scans say I still have 3 more. Thumbs up for medical advances.

  • The treatment device sounds like something right out of GOOD Sci-Fi - Star Trek TOS

  • Gall stones? (Score:3)

    by Hoi Polloi ( 522990 ) on Saturday October 28, 2023 @12:22AM (#63960779) Journal

    I wonder if this could be applied, with modifications of course, to gall stones

    • You can prevent gallstones with something called a 'liver flush'. Still not approved by medical establishment but just like vitamins is harmless and lots of people swear by it and do it once or twice a year. Easy enough to do at home but lots of chiropractors are now also offering the service (kind of makes sense because chiropractors are also frowned on by med establishment). Here is a compact outline of the procedure, do some googling to see broader explanations: https://www.bestfayettevillech... [bestfayett...ractor.com]
    • > I wonder if this could be applied, with modifications of course, to gall stones

      They can, see this Wikipedia article:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithotripsy

    • About 20 years ago, I had kidney stones - so bad that my local hospital referred me to a larger one, who, in turn referred me to an even larger one with an 8 month waiting list.

      My mother used Google to find that Aloe Vera was good for kidney stones, She was going to go to the local pharmacy to get some, but a family friend overheard her and said "don't waste your time with that - go to the West Indian shop and get a leaf and prepare it yourself". She bought the leaf instead and then asked the friend how t

  • In the colonies (Score:3)

    by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Saturday October 28, 2023 @12:26AM (#63960797) Journal

    This reminds me of something I read as a kid, the kind of thing they wouldn't let kids read for a couple reasons these days. First, it described primitive surgery. Secondly, it was written from a white perspective that portrayed natives as superstitious and backwards. So anyway, the story was that a doctor diagnosed a severe stone in a native woman, and performed surgery to remove it, most likely with "grin and bear it" or perhaps alcohol, but I don't recall. The doctor told them it was a "demon", which he crushed after removing. I honestly don't remember if the woman lived in the story; but I think she did and it was something that helped the relationship between the colonials and the tribe--for a time.

    So anyway, as risky as space travel is, as bad as it is to have a problem like that, at least you'll get proper anesthetics and sterile procedure. They didn't even know about germs in colonial times. Absolutely mind blowing what people went through.

    • Pasteur developed the disease theory of bacteria and discovered the need for sterilisation back in the 19th century. The colonial era ended in the 1960s, assuming you don't recognise China's colonisation of Tibet and the Uighur lands as colonisation, nor the settlement of large numbers of Russians in the Baltic republics until they escaped the Soviet Union.

      • Why would you do this?

      • In the USA, the phrase "colonial era" or "colonial times" is generally understood as the period where British colonies existed on the east coast, up until the time of the Revolutionary War. Since this is a US-centric web site and says so in the FAQ, I didn't feel like I had to explain that.

        • I must remember that I must conform to the usages of the language of the Empire when posting on /. :)

          • Pray that I do not alter the bargain any further. Seriously though, perhaps my bad--because I went back to check the FAQ and it's not there any more. IIRC, back in the day we used to hear a lot of complaints about that and it was allegedly in the FAQ but now I'm wondering if it ever was and if that was just something people said and never verified.

            Wayback machine might help; but I'm lazy and also the power goes off soon for some kind of planned maintenance.

  • This has nothing to do with Mars (Score:5, Informative)

    by GrumpySteen ( 1250194 ) on Saturday October 28, 2023 @04:15AM (#63961077)

    They invented shock wave lithotripsy 30 years ago which broke up kidney stones and left the small pieces to be excreted naturally over a period of a few days.

    Burst wave lithotripsy is a recent refinement of that which appears to be more effective and can be used to move the fragments out immediately.

    This is a promising advancement which, if it works out, will help people on Earth with kidney stones have faster recovery and fewer complications.

    That said, it has fuck all to do with making it possible for astronauts to go to Mars. The author should be ashamed for creating that clickbait article.

    • Did they get a NASA grant to study this?

      The clown world of government contracting is something "special".

      • Let's review your objection: To solve a particular problem that affects astronauts that it is a current unsolved problem for long term space travel, you object that NASA would fund research to solve that problem. Is that your objection? Next thing I suppose you'll object to the US military funding research on better battlefield armor to keep soldiers alive.

    • Lithotrypsy can cause damage to healthy kidney tissue as well as nearby organs. The likelihood and extent of that damage has not been fully studied in humans, but must somehow be balanced against the harm that an untreated stone itself would likely cause.

  • Itâ(TM)s not enough to report on a meaningful science advance, you also have to mention:

    Going to Mars
    Climate Change
    Electric Vehicles
    Flying Cars
    Artificial Intelligence
    Cryptocurrency
    CRISPR
    Some American Politician
    California
    A Lawsuit
    Bad China
    Bad Google
    Bad Microsoft
    Bad Russia
    Good Apple
    and also throw in something about people killing each other.

    What were we talking about, again?

  • If the stone hasn't moved yet there's the effect of normal lithotripsy which is basically like taking a hammer to the surrounding soft tissue of the kidney (doctor: "it's not gentle"), but add to that weeks worth of scraping the shit out of you ureters done in a few minutes.

    That being said, I think I'd take it.
  • Worse pain you can imagine! Nurse in the ER told me, "That's the closest any man will come to experiencing labor pains". Haven't had any issues in the last 20 years. I take cranberry a cranberry capsule in the morning, and another one in the evening.

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