Silence Is a 'Sound' You Hear, Study Suggests (nytimes.com) 68
An anonymous reader quotes a report from the New York Times: The hush at the end of the musical performance. The pause in a dramatic speech. The muted moment when you turn off the car. What is it that we hear when we hear nothing at all? Are we detecting silence? Or are we just hearing nothing and interpreting that absence as silence? The "Sound of Silence" is a philosophical question that made for one of Simon & Garfunkel's most enduring songs, but it's also a subject that can be tested by psychologists. In a paper published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, researchers used a series of sonic illusions to show that people perceive silences much as they hear sounds. While the study offers no insight into how our brains might be processing silence, the results suggest that people perceive silence as its own type of "sound," not just as a gap between noises.
The researchers tested people recruited online with a series of sound illusions. The first test compared a single longer sound with two shorter sounds. The two shorter sounds together added up to the same amount of time as the longer sound. But when people listened to them, they perceived the single sound as lasting longer. To apply that illusion to silence, [Rui Zhe Goh, a graduate student in cognitive science and philosophy at Johns Hopkins University] and colleagues inverted the test. The scientists used sounds of restaurants, busy marketplaces, trains or playgrounds, and inserted chunks of silence for participants to compare.
The researchers supposed that if people perceive silences as their own type of sound, then silences should be subject to the same illusion as the sounds. One long silence should be perceived as longer than the total of two shorter silences. But if people perceive silence as a lack of sound, the illusion might not exist. Other tests placed silence in different contexts to produce more sonic illusions. In every case they tested, listeners perceived the illusion of a period of silence being longer just as they would have perceived an illusion of a longer sound. [...] Although the researchers did not study how people's brains responded to silence, Mr. Goh suggested that existing research supported the idea that some neurons and neural processes were involved in the perception of silence. And knowing that we do perceive silence makes silence that much, er, louder: "Silence is a real experience," Mr. Goh said. Maybe we'll all pay more attention to moments of quiet once we know we can hear the "sounds" of silence.
The researchers tested people recruited online with a series of sound illusions. The first test compared a single longer sound with two shorter sounds. The two shorter sounds together added up to the same amount of time as the longer sound. But when people listened to them, they perceived the single sound as lasting longer. To apply that illusion to silence, [Rui Zhe Goh, a graduate student in cognitive science and philosophy at Johns Hopkins University] and colleagues inverted the test. The scientists used sounds of restaurants, busy marketplaces, trains or playgrounds, and inserted chunks of silence for participants to compare.
The researchers supposed that if people perceive silences as their own type of sound, then silences should be subject to the same illusion as the sounds. One long silence should be perceived as longer than the total of two shorter silences. But if people perceive silence as a lack of sound, the illusion might not exist. Other tests placed silence in different contexts to produce more sonic illusions. In every case they tested, listeners perceived the illusion of a period of silence being longer just as they would have perceived an illusion of a longer sound. [...] Although the researchers did not study how people's brains responded to silence, Mr. Goh suggested that existing research supported the idea that some neurons and neural processes were involved in the perception of silence. And knowing that we do perceive silence makes silence that much, er, louder: "Silence is a real experience," Mr. Goh said. Maybe we'll all pay more attention to moments of quiet once we know we can hear the "sounds" of silence.
Until You Get Older (Score:5, Funny)
Then it sounds like tape hiss when you turn the Dolby NR off.
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Or worse, tinnitus. I have white noise playing in the background much of the time now.
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Mine adds a metallic character to everything I hear. The AC currently sounds like it has about a 14Khz harmonic.
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Sorry to hear that. COVID does seem to make it worse for a lot of people.
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Then it sounds like tape hiss when you turn the Dolby NR off.
(The Ironic Youth) "What?"
(The Elder) "I hear ya..."
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4'33'' (Score:5, Interesting)
John Cage (the composer, not the Mortal Kombat character!) wrote 4'33'' [youtube.com], which instructs the orchestra members to not play their instruments [wikipedia.org] for the duration of the piece.
Re:4'33'' (Score:4, Funny)
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John Cage (the [publicity whore]) wrote 4'33'', which instructs the orchestra members to not play their instruments for the duration of the piece.
That's a pretty liberal (read fantastically gracious) use of the word "wrote".
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John Cage (the [publicity whore]) wrote 4'33'', which instructs the orchestra members to not play their instruments for the duration of the piece.
That's a pretty liberal (read fantastically gracious) use of the word "wrote".
And yet the estate has sued performers [billboard.com] for doing an homage without paying royalties. LOL.
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I read the article. I suspect that was court theatrics meant to lend legitimacy to future copyright claims, or dissuade imitators. I'm relatively certain that not a penny changed hands.
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There is no John Cage in Mortal Kombat. Still, there is a guy named Johnny Cage...
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It's John Cage when he was younger and everyone called him Johnny.
After beating Goro, he retired and started composing music.
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'"Murke's Collected Silences" (German: Doktor Murkes gesammeltes Schweigen) is a short story by German writer Heinrich Böll, first published in the Frankfurter Hefte in 1955 and in Doktor Murkes gesammeltes Schweigen und andere Satiren in 1958'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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I used to be able to identify some orchestras and venues by the ambient sound when nothing was happening. The Chicago Symphony was particularly distinctive.
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That is impressive! Also, it's a nice coincidence that "433" is part of your /. user ID.
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Ha! hadn't noticed, but that's a fun fact. Yeah, back when I was familiar with a bunch of orchestras (due to that being what the Sunday radio was) likely I could have ID'd who was not-playing 4'33", and where.
But nature blessed me with a perfect ear (this caused my third grade music teacher to pursue me brandishing a violin; being a third grader, I ran away) so I hear distinctions normies don't.
And unless you're in a vacuum, silence isn't silent; it's air moving, however subtly, against whatever is in its w
Seeking (Score:5, Interesting)
>"What is it that we hear when we hear nothing at all?"
It is rare to have utter silence. There is almost something going on all the time- lights transformers, fans, some distant appliance or computer, nature, etc. Utter silence is a strange thing, where you can only hear your own breathing and blood flow.
Unfortunately, I was cursed with both extra sensitive hearing and extra perception of it. So not only can I hear just about everything across a remarkable frequency range, I also have a hard time tuning things out and can obsess on it. Has made for a nightmare of hearing stupid bass from cars miles away, the screaming of CRT's and florescent lights, etc.
I thought it would get better as I got older and maybe would lose some hearing range and volume. Nope, instead I developed tinnitus- another nightmare that fills silence with a never ending, soft, 13 KHz tone (totally unfair, since I also was always careful to avoid loud noises). So that is my "silence" now for the last 7 years. Thankfully, it is masked by most environmental white noise. And air cleaners do that quite well, which helps with allergies.
So I have spent most of my life seeking silence, and the last part seeking a little less than silence. So that is the silence I never hear.
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Fans, it's all about fans.
Lifelong tinnitus hearer here, too many loud concerts and being in a band in high school - my parents never warned me to "wear EAR protection", they had... other concerns/warnings...
Anyway, fans cover up tinnitus very effectively.
When camping I prefer not to use a fan, instead letting nature deal with the ringing (it doesn't). Otherwise it's fans, fans, fans. I like the breeze too.
Silence is something I will never experience again.
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>"Lifelong tinnitus hearer here, too many loud concerts and being in a band in high school - my parents never warned me to "wear EAR protection""
I took all the precautions. Never liked loud noises. Always wear hearing protection when needed. Headphones at reasonable levels. I don't know why tinnitus happened. There must be a genetic component to it, regardless of what I did environmentally.
>"Anyway, fans cover up tinnitus very effectively."
Yep... best thing there is. I am a fan of fans.
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Unfortunately, I was cursed with both extra sensitive hearing and extra perception of it. So not only can I hear just about everything across a remarkable frequency range, I also have a hard time tuning things out and can obsess on it. Has made for a nightmare of hearing stupid bass from cars miles away, the screaming of CRT's and florescent lights, etc.
I thought it would get better as I got older and maybe would lose some hearing range and volume. Nope, instead I developed tinnitus- another nightmare that fills silence with a never ending, soft, 13 KHz tone (totally unfair, since I also was always careful to avoid loud noises). So that is my "silence" now for the last 7 years. Thankfully, it is masked by most environmental white noise. And air cleaners do that quite well, which helps with allergies.
I have the exact same condition, and memories of its effects from a fairly young age so very unlikely any form of ear damage that could be prevented.
I don't think it has reduced much at all in the last 40 years, although my perception of it has changed over time.
For example last night I was hearing a repeating mid-pitch sound, regular at times but irregular enough to that I couldn't tune it out. It sounded like it was in my back yard.
It took a good 20-30 minutes of irritation before finally going outside to
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I could have written the same comment exactly. I can hear a flyback whine from across a room full of people talking. It feels like pressure in my head, it's really quite unpleasant. I constantly can hear things other people can't in other contexts, too, that bother me and not them.
One thing I find interesting is the weird feeling when walking close by the wall of a theater, where it's got sound deadening foam behind a fabric cover. It feels super-duper weird to have one ear next to it, and the other ear poi
Ask an engineer (Score:4, Informative)
Re: Ask an engineer (Score:2)
I've heard 'silence' (Score:4, Interesting)
If you've ever been in a sound-dampening room, it is actually extremely disquieting. When there are no external sounds above the human detection threshold, it feels like a weird kind of pressure in your ears. I found it very uncomfortable after a few seconds.
I doubt most people have ever been anywhere without some kind of environmental noise their brains were merely editing out from their conscious attention.
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If you've ever been in a sound-dampening room, it is actually extremely disquieting.
I heard that.
Re: I've heard 'silence' (Score:1)
I see what you didn't hear there
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I doubt most people have ever been anywhere without some kind of environmental noise their brains were merely editing out from their conscious attention.
Closest I have ever been to "silence" was in the Badlands of South Dakota. I was in the area called The Notch. It was late in the day so no tourists were around (other than myself). No plant life such as trees or shrubs around, no wind that I was aware of, and no jets overhead. Because of the U-shaped landscape, any sound would have been directed up and
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If you've ever been in a sound-dampening room, it is actually extremely disquieting. When there are no external sounds above the human detection threshold, it feels like a weird kind of pressure in your ears. I found it very uncomfortable after a few seconds.
I doubt most people have ever been anywhere without some kind of environmental noise their brains were merely editing out from their conscious attention.
Posting anon to not remove positive moderation elsewhere in the thread.
I've had the privilege to be closed in an anechoic chamber on numerous occasions (my old boss's guitar player is a higher up at Shure, so we'd get the deluxe tour). Disconcerting is a good word for the experience. To double up on the experience, we would have whoever was manning the room at the time turn the lights out. At least until we did that once and a college student tried to walk around the room and fell (no inner ear reference
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I've often wondered what would happen over an extended period of time in there
Watch Altered States [imdb.com]
The LSD in this team is strong! (Score:2)
Cold exists! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Cold exists! (Score:5, Interesting)
See, some people say cold and darkness don't 'exist,' they are simply the absence of heat or light, respectively..
They all "exist". The same way zero is still a number. No sound is a sound, no light is a colour, and no smell is a smell. Because the brain doesn't perceive absolute anythings, it records changes. Hang around the same smell long enough and you don't smell it any more, walk out of the room and back in and you will. So of course the transition from sound to "no sound" is perceived as a sound, because it's a change. Anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of the brain would know this.
Who funds this? It's moronic. This is something that, no word of a lie, I would honestly expect from a junior high school science fair. It's embarrassing to see coming out of Jons Hopkins, and even more embarrassing to see come out of the National Academy of Sciences.
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See, some people say cold and darkness don't 'exist,' they are simply the absence of heat or light, respectively..
They all "exist". The same way zero is still a number. No sound is a sound, no light is a colour, and no smell is a smell. Because the brain doesn't perceive absolute anythings, it records changes...So of course the transition from sound to "no sound" is perceived as a sound, because it's a change. Anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of the brain would know this.
While many can argue the absence of value in the number zero doesn't change the fact that it's still a number, it's genuinely silly to compare that to the concept of sound. The very definition of sound implies an actual value. The absence of sound would simply imply nothing. No sound is not a sound in the same way no light is not a light. It's also why we kinda had to logically invent the concept of silence and dark.
"Sound" doesn't live exclusively on some numerical plane where the absence of it is con
Re: Cold exists! (Score:2)
My roommate in England used to sometimes shout "close the door you're letting the heat out" and sometimes "you're letting the cold in" and we never could predict which
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Those "some people" are studying physics. The other "some people" study physiology, and both are correct.
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"Absence of sound" is a perceptual concept. Brownian motion [wikipedia.org] would still cause something that, from a physics standpoint, would be defined as sound (white noise). It is below the level of human perception*. To achieve true silence, one would have to cool the test chamber (and test subject's body) down to absolute zero. Or pump the chamber down to a perfect vacuum.
*Maybe. Some claim to be able to hear it in an anechoic chamber.
what? (Score:2)
No, seriously what?
I have had tinnitus since I can remember (Score:3)
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There is no such thing as absolute silence even for people without tinnitus. The body perceives changes in relative volume but our lower sensitivity is lower than the sound our functioning body makes. This is a weird sensation that you can get if you ever experience a truly quiet place. Not sure if it is still the case but for a while the world's quietest place was in an audio isolation chamber setup at Microsoft (it doesn't need to make sense). What they found was if people were left in there for about 30
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There is no such thing as absolute silence
Sure there is. Sound requires a medium to travel through. Remove that medium, aka vacuum or space, and I'd consider that silence, as no waves will reach the ear drum from external sources. Internal sources are a different matter.
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You're talking about the physical concept of the inability to transmit pressure waves. We're talking about the perceptual concept of silence. No there's no such thing as absolute silence as the conditions required to create silence can't exist in a living body. Even if you are in a vacuum (and somehow surviving) you will still hear sound of your own bodily functions transmitted via conduction to your inner ear.
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Yep. I’ve not had silence for 24 years now. Just 9khz bilateral squeal I can hear over a hairdryer 24x7.
Latest theory is neural feedback in the audio cortex. No reliable treatments yet but plenty of snake oil.
BS (Score:3)
Next: darkness is a "light" you see.
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Next: darkness is a "light" you see.
Black is definitely a colour, not an absence thereof.
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And white is a color, not all colors. Just ask a Klansman.
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And it is. People will perceive darkness in relatively light places, not just places relatively light, but places where if you gave your body time to adjust you would actually be able to see again.
Conceptually this study makes perfect sense. Your body works by comparing relative things and attempts to adjust. Given the human body itself make noises above the lowest threshold of hearing (If you're ever in a truly "silent" place such as an anechoic chamber deadened to below 0dB) you will hear your own blood p
Hello Darkness (Score:2)
I've come to talk with you again (Score:2)
Because a vision softly creeping
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I never did like that song very much until it was covered by Disturbed [youtube.com].
That disturbed cover is epic!
so what if we respons to difference? (Score:1)
Some background: a drummer does not change tempo when only playing short sounds with silence in between compared to sounds
Silence != absence of external sound (Score:5, Informative)
The article neglects to mention that NYT Magazine did a story last fall on this very subject:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/23/magazine/quiet-chamber-minneapolis.html [nytimes.com]
The writer visited an anechoic chamber that's soundproofed and acoustically dampened such that you can't hear anything but the sound of your own body. Once you're inside, you quickly realize the difference between silence and the absence of external sound. Apparently hearing nothing but your own body is very disconcerting.
Tested time perception (Score:2)
Now do the same with light, or touch, and discover time perception was being tested not sound.
Tacet (Score:2)
Silence is so important to expressing musical ideas that there is an entire category of symbols used to notate when it is to be used, how long, how often, how quickly or slowly it transitions, and even by how much.
Soundproof anechoic chamber (Score:2)
Being in a test chamber is a bit unsettling at first, because what we normally think of as "quiet" is often anything but.
Silence is a sound (Score:2)
But only if you're Simon & Garfunkel.
word play (Score:2)
Silence is not a sound you hear. This is just stupid word play on a random experiment that probably means exactly nothing.
There's even a soung about it (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
We know! (Score:2)
I'm over 60 and like 30% of my age group, we hear a ringing, buzzing, whistling, hissing, roaring, clicking and pulsing silence 24/7.