Human Trial of mRNA Universal Flu Vaccine Begins 266
A Phase 1 trail of a universal mRNA-based influenza vaccine is under way at Duke Unversity in Durham, North Carolina. It's being developed by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases' (NAID) Vaccine Research Center (VRC). New Atlas reports: Some 50 participants aged 18-49 will be split into three groups and given 10, 25 and 50 micrograms of the active drug, respectively. When optimal dosage is then determined, another 10 participants will get this measured jab. There will also be an additional group who will receive a current quadrivalent seasonal flu shot, so researchers have a comparative dataset that takes into account the immune response and safety of readily available influenza vaccines. Those in the trial will then be regularly evaluated over 12 months to see how the drug's immune response has fared and to assess its short-term and long-term safety.
This trial comes after the initial NIAID's Vaccine Research Center study on the safety and immune response of the H1ssF (H1 hemagglutinin stabilized stem ferritin) nanoparticle vaccine. The Phase 1 trial, from April 2019 to March 2020, delivered broad antibody responses in the 52 participants aged 18-70. The results of the trial were published last month in the journal Science Translational Medicine.
The H1ssF vaccine targets the flu protein hemagglutinin. One section of this protein -- the 'head' -- changes as the virus evolves into different strains, but the stem of the protein is much slower to be altered and remains fairly constant throughout influenza mutations. The researchers believe herein lies the key to a long-lasting, effective universal preventative vaccine. The new trial combines the H1ssF nanoparticle vaccine with messenger RNA (mRNA) as the platform, with the end goal that it'll deliver a more efficient, targeted immune response.
This trial comes after the initial NIAID's Vaccine Research Center study on the safety and immune response of the H1ssF (H1 hemagglutinin stabilized stem ferritin) nanoparticle vaccine. The Phase 1 trial, from April 2019 to March 2020, delivered broad antibody responses in the 52 participants aged 18-70. The results of the trial were published last month in the journal Science Translational Medicine.
The H1ssF vaccine targets the flu protein hemagglutinin. One section of this protein -- the 'head' -- changes as the virus evolves into different strains, but the stem of the protein is much slower to be altered and remains fairly constant throughout influenza mutations. The researchers believe herein lies the key to a long-lasting, effective universal preventative vaccine. The new trial combines the H1ssF nanoparticle vaccine with messenger RNA (mRNA) as the platform, with the end goal that it'll deliver a more efficient, targeted immune response.
Interesting quandary (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: Interesting quandary (Score:5, Funny)
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For those who dislike the mRNA vaccines, this is actually a good thing. This vaccine will have to go through all the testing at the normal (slow) rate. It will be fully vetted before it's released for general public use. If there is a problem with the mRNA vaccines, it will show up in testing of the influenza variant.
Re: Interesting quandary (Score:4, Insightful)
The mRNA vaccine isn't as new as we think. It was studies for about 20 years prior to it being released for the Covid vaccine.
It wasn't used previously, not from general safety issues, just that traditional vaccines had their infrastructure in place, and its general slower time to develop matched the demand for it.
Covid spread very rapidly. where mRNA allowed for a faster deployment (as it didn't need to grow the virus), as well it allowed the information to be send to be created without needing a sample of the virus.
Re:Interesting quandary (Score:5, Insightful)
I would say it is a discriminator. Stupid people should have a higher risk of dying and the flu actually kills quite a few stupid people each year. This will make the gap larger. Good.
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Unfortunately it mostly kills people that already have bred ... so if one believes in genetics being the main influence for IQ ... it is a bit late for them to catch the Flu and die to it.
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What bothers everyone about the COVID go round was the lack of information that was glossed over in favor of "Everyone must get the shot!". Whether is was hysteria, or ridiculing people (which you're doing) or general lack of information being hidden for fear of people not wanting to get immunized, it turned into a self fulfilling prophecy because of this.
Personal ane
Simple (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Simple (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably. Although physiologically the two viruses couldnt be any more different. I do wish Covid minimizers would actually look at how Covid works, and what the ACE2 receptor does, why its chaotic to mess with it, and why anything that basically floods the body with micro blood-clots is really not a virus one should take lightly.
Not to minimize the flu. That things an indiscriminate vandal with plenty of deaths (on a regular year sometimes even more thanks to it being savagely dangerous to people with COPD) as well, but it really doesnt function the same way at all, other than making immune systems lose their shit and create inflamatory responses that make us feel like hell.
Re:Simple (Score:5, Insightful)
We don't even have data to understand influenza mortality and morbidity.
One thing we learned during covid is that the flu data was all computer models and projections.
I'm not sure what you thought you were saying here, but we have decades of "data to understand influenza mortality and morbidity". That's what they build models and projections with.
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Flu is just like a mild case of COVID.
Well, I've never heard of "long flu". Also, some people die of the flu, while some people are only mildly ill with Covid and may actually be asymptomatic. So I think chronic health problems and death rates are probably more useful criteria than severity of illness.
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Well, I've never heard of "long flu"
You hadn't heard of it, but not enough research had been done into post-viral syndromes and post infectious illness syndromes before COVID. The only similar thing most people have heard of is Mononucleosis from EBV infection but it's not the only one. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is likely under the same umbrella and is often dismissed as not even being real except to the people that have it.
However, I think flu is way down on the list as a potential cause. COVID causes it in such big numbers that it is actu
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I've never heard of "long flu".
the internet still exists [google.com], HTH HAND
Also, some people die of the flu, while some people are only mildly ill with Covid and may actually be asymptomatic.
Also, some people die of Covid, while some people are only mildly ill with the flu and may actually be asymptomatic [passporthealthusa.com].
It's not clear what you thought you were proving there, since you already showed you didn't care enough to use a simple web search to remedy your ignorance?
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It's not like those people ever care about evidence and logic. I mean just look at some of the comments here. The steady defunding of the public education system and being replaced by media that sees itself as having no duty to the truth but instead pursues maximizing views is bearing its fruit.
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Look I get allergies for about 1 week a year after I'm at parties and around others with allergies. I'm not sure what the big deal is.
Re:Interesting quandary (Score:5, Insightful)
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At this early time, and seeing the problems that the RNA covid shots had...I'd stick with the more traditional flu shot types.....
Just curious, have you ever looked into the rare side effects of other medications you readily take, or only the ones that talking heads on TV scream about? It definitely sounds like modern medicine in general may not be for you. I would suggest homeopathy, or maybe herbal medicine. Something like one of those would be a perfect fit, given your critical thinking skills.
Re:Interesting quandary (Score:5, Insightful)
I've not had bad side effects from regular vaccines....
How many regular vaccines have you had as an adult? Flu shot? Sample size of one?
Remember when the H1N1 2009 vaccine caused a huge uptick in narcolepsy in parts of Europe? "Regular" vaccines can cause bad side effects, too. And they're way less effective. So you end up with all the same risks, but fewer benefits.
That's not even factoring in all of the clots caused by vector-virus-based COVID vaccines. Those "regular" vaccines were way, way worse, statistically speaking, in every possible way.
The mRNA covid shots are the prime culprit in giving my Bells Palsy.....which really sucked for a few months and scared the fuck out of me thinking I was having a stroke.
The rate of Bell's Palsy from the vaccine is higher than from a placebo by about 3x. However, COVID causes Bell's Palsy at a rate more than 3x higher than the vaccine does (and about 10x higher than someone who got neither the vaccine nor COVID).
Besides, you were probably going to get Bell's Palsy at some point either way. It is believed to be an autoimmune disease with a genetic predisposition, and can be triggered by any infection from COVID to the common cold. Heck, the vaccine may not have even been the trigger. It is impossible to say for sure.
The mRNA ones, at least from what we've seen from covid...have some pretty bad side effects that even with suppression by the media and govt....are starting to come out statistically....such as heart problems in young men, etc.
Stop getting your news from far-right "news" sources. The fact of the matter is that the side effects are consistently worse if you get COVID than if you get the vaccine. And even though the *rate* of myocarditis/pericarditis may be slightly higher with the vaccine (this might also be reporting bias), the severity of vaccine-induced myocarditis/pericarditis is much lower, so on average you're still way ahead.
It's a risk/reward choice.....but we need to make sure and publicize the possible effect in an honest manner, not suppress them.
It is being publicized in an honest manner. The folks claiming otherwise are fear-mongering to get clicks/views/likes.
These side effects we saw with mRNA covid shots were not quite as "rare" as you seem to try to promote.
All rare side effects are not rare when you give out over 13 billion doses of something. Rare is as a percentage, not an absolute number.
And these numbers also have to be considered in the context of what they replace. Your choice (realistically) isn't between getting the vaccine and getting nothing. Rather, your choice is between getting the vaccine and getting a more severe case of COVID. So even a side effect with relatively high frequency can still be the best choice if COVID would produce the same side effect with higher frequency or greater severity.
They seemed rare because all discourse that was even slightly negative about them was suppressed by all social media and the powers that be.
There was plenty of discourse that was negative about the vaccine. The content that was suppressed was content that grossly misrepresented the facts and made claims that were not actually supported by the data.
Also, the sheer number of pseudo-science "papers" written by advocacy groups during the pandemic was downright alarming, replete with egregious errors in their scientific methodology, etc. These caused researchers to waste time debunking junk science instead of more carefully verifying actual science, which was a problem unto itself.
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So far...no one in my family has ever had the palsy.
Did you ask around or something? Did you consult your family's journal of all the minor illnesses they have all contracted over the years?
It was NOT being reported during the covid years....if you tried to say anything negative on social media you were immediately blocked or booted from them.
I can't speak to this personally, since I get my news from, well, the news. I don't wait to overhear it on street corners or have it passed along to me by word of mouth. Long ago we developed systems for passing this sort of information around far more effectively, you should really check them out.
That said, if by "blocked or booted from them" you mean "had a littl
Re:Interesting quandary (Score:5, Interesting)
Unless you are very old or very young...or possibly badly health compromised....the flu ain't gonna kill you.
This is so woefully misinformed. My sister works in a hospital in the Nashville area and yeah, it's not often, but every so often you "win" the flu lotto and for no clear reason, you're dead from it even at ages as young as the twenties. While there is a propensity for the very young and "very old" (55+ is the recommended "old" by doctors) to die from it, lots of everything in between as well. You can get the flu, not take proper rest, and wear yourself down for subsequent infection.
There's just a ton of variables that you're just glossing over here. With the "flu ain't gonna kill you". Because lots of folks who chant this mantra are also the same folks who work themselves with an infection from flu to a dangerous point. Any upper respiratory infection isn't something to just dismiss or "ya just gotta work though it". All of them pose a particular risk of being lethal and more so if you're going to be an idiot about it. Number of construction workers in the Nashville area needing oxygen therapy because they decided to work on site while having the flu would surprise you. Yeah they didn't die, but they took something that would have resolved with three to five days rest into something they need Albuterol and oxygen sessions every other day for two to three weeks.
Stop downplaying this shit. This is how people get themselves killed by downplaying the risk. And even worse are some of the outcomes where you DO NOT die. Some of those outcomes reduce your ability to breathe without pain for various amounts of time. But in all of this, there's a common thread. Every single person who suffered from some of the not death outcomes of flu or the "random" deaths of flu, were not vaccinated. Being vaccinated is single single handedly the best thing to do to prevent most of the outcomes of an infection with flu that are not pleasant.
At this early time, and seeing the problems that the RNA covid shots had...I'd stick with the more traditional flu shot types.....
I mean it's whatever. The "problems" with mRNA vaccines are exactly the same "problems" we have with every vaccine. Some people have allergic reactions to them. And yes, things like myocarditis are indeed allergic reactions. However, given the data that we have, the number of people who are in that latter category are an incredibly small group at 1.71 per 100,000 or a rate of 0.0000171. I'm roughly four times more likely to be struck by lightning, so I'll take the "problems" with a grain of salt. As for the discomfort, yeah that's to be expected. The SARS-CoV-2 virus is a new one and new always brings with it fun discomfort for the first go round. My first flu shot back in the 70s was roughly the same reaction. If you want to stick to the traditional ones or not, that's you. So you do you. If you don't want to vaccinate, again, that's all you. I'm not some stickler for folks getting vaccinated or not, but I am going to indicate that things like not getting a flu shot, not wearing a seat belt, or not wearing a helmet when riding a motorcycle doesn't usually go well for the folks who "win" the "oh-no lotto" in those categories. But shoot, if that's what you want, don't let me slow you down.
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I've never seen the need to get a flu shot....but given my age, I might start considering it.
I'm just one anecdotal data point, keep that in mind, just like you with your Bell's Palsy. When I was a kid, I got sick with the flu about once a year, way worse than the average cold. I remember one year when my parents both got it. I was about 12. It scared me because I'd never seen them so sick before. I was bringing them food. My dad took time off work. He's a doctor, and never canceled a day full of patients, some of whom were travelling pretty far to seem him. He was laid up but good. I was
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From your own source: 9/20/2022 The Positivity Rate by Vaccination Status graph has been updated to reflect the influence of time since last vaccine dose. ... Recent data shows that vaccinated patients make up 71% of our testing population. In alignment with published information regarding waning immunity, our data demonstrates that positivity is lowest in individuals that received a vaccine dose most recently.
To repeat: In alignment with published information regarding waning immunity, our data demonstr
Vaccines on Slashdot (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Vaccines on Slashdot (Score:5, Interesting)
It has one good aspekt: It reminds sane, educated people how many completely fucking clueless morons are out there. If only learning to read and write (such as they can) was much harder. The ancient Chinese may have been on to something with their system of writing...
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It's fascinating to watch people with some level of intelligence mix dogma and rationalization to try and convince themselves otherwise. Like they were happy with medical science up until this point but they can't break away from their political party because it's part of their identity.
If a doctor told them they had cancer they would be in the hospital tomorrow asking for every chemo drug and treatment. Now a doctor tells them a vaccine would be in their best interest and suddenly it's completely different
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but until that day, I wish the pro-vax crowd could understand that progress in medical science is measured in lives lost.
You do know millions of people died to COVID right? Anecdotally I know way more that did not get the vaccine and died than got the vaccine and died.
To call for mandatory vaccination when the science was at best ambiguous, was, and is, unethical and dangerous.
The science was not ambiguous. Your statement is what we call a lie.
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Me too.
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Posted from my iPhone using the incredibly good 5G coverage in North Carolina.
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And then there's Idaho (Score:5, Informative)
Idaho lawmakers want to criminalize mRNA vaccines. [salon.com] -- excerpt of bill, referenced in article, below:
LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF IDAHO
HOUSE BILL NO. 154
18-926. ADMINISTERING AN MRNA VACCINE.
(1) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person may not provide or administer a vaccine developed using messenger ribonucleic acid technology for use in an individual or any other mammal in this state.
(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.
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Idiocracy. Well, it was clear the US empire would collapse at some point. Apparently that process is well underway.
Re:And then there's Idaho (Score:4, Interesting)
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The Republican Party is a death cult. Guns, disease, pollution, they don't care which, as long as someone they disapprove of dies.
The Republican motto: Let the bodies hit the floor!
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Other peoples bodies. You'll note that the legislation doesn't forbid travelling out of state to get vaccinated, if you have the means to do so. It's pure populism - throw the masses something that will appeal to them, even if it makes things worse for them, and make sure you have another option.
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It's interesting that you edited such a short quote down to that. You could have just quoted the whole thing. Or indeed, made an argument against the allegation that the Republican Party was OK with pollution as long as only people they disapprove of were affected.
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So...supporting the amendments of the bill of rights of the US constitution is now being part of a "death cult"?
The amendment you're talking about is unclear. We know what its authors meant because they wrote about it elsewhere, but no explanatory text made it into the actual amendment. As a result, due to the way law works (those other explanatory writings are not part of the law) it is completely legally valid to argue about what it means as written. Whether something is in the bill of rights or the base constitution itself is immaterial to whether supporting it amounts to being part of a death cult. So is the orig
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Doctors are already leaving the state and hospitals are getting rid of maternity care because the party of small government keeps passing oppressive legislation. https://idahocapitalsun.com/20... [idahocapitalsun.com]
https://www.theguardian.com/us... [theguardian.com]
Ahah! (Score:2)
THIS is why they are ripping out chinese telecommunication equipment from cell towers! The new nanobot vaccine mind control system uses 7G . Now, are we against masks because eagles and such, or pro-masks to hide our identities as we post tiktoks of ourselves storming the white house/chinese restaurant?
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We skipped 6g? Wowsers!
Guess who will make the profit? (Score:3)
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California is making their own insulin to bypass the price gouging drug companies.
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/19... [npr.org]
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Nice one (Score:2)
I was part of an mRNA flu vaccine trial. They work. A little jab and no symptoms to keep from getting a bad flu? Yes please.
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I was part of an mRNA flu vaccine trial. They work. A little jab and no symptoms to keep from getting a bad flu? Yes please.
I'm all for a universal flu vaccine, mRNA or traditional. But I'm doubting the "no symptoms" part for most people. Regular flu vaccines always make me feel somewhat under the weather for a few days... and I had a day of feeling like crap after each of my COVID shots.
But feeling somewhat bad for a short while beats getting sick for a week or more, or worse.
new pressure (Score:2)
once you start using this new vaccine it will apply pressure to the virus to change that key structure as well. there have been and will be changes but they will be selected for success with the new vaccine. there are no universal vaccines and life, even debased forms like viruses, will find a way.
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Maybe, but that's not what happened with small pox or polio. If the vaccine really targets a stable part of the virus, we have a winner.
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Polio is not yet gone. It still exists in pockets in the world. And the popular vaccine was a weakened strain that could sometimes mutate back into a full strength version.
Smallpox was a good call but it really was a more locked in design. Flu seems to be too mutable. I hope this really works but there's a ways to go before we write off flu as a threat any longer.
This scares me a little (Score:2)
The human immune system is pretty smart. There's a reason that the body hasn't come up with a universal antibody for the flu.
This will also selectively pressure the influenza virus to mutate in the area that we're targeting.
Now that we're seeing spike protein in the bloodstream of people who got the mRNA COVID vaccine up to 60 days post inoculation, I think we need to to a lot more testing of mRNA vaccines now that the current health crisis is over.
Why mRNA? (Score:2)
If they can already produce and isolate H1ssF nanoparticles for administration directly as a vaccine, why would they want to use mRNA to induce the body to produce H1ssF? The summary is a big ambiguous.
friendly reminder (Score:3)
Just a friendly reminder that right now, covid is currently killing about 100 times as many people in the US as flu.
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)
What disaster would that be?
Being able to craft vaccines specifically for vulnerable genetic bits in the pathogen instead of the traditional more or less fuzzy methods for deactivating them is a game changer.
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)
What disaster would that be?
The state of the education system. You know, the one that lead to people calling the best vaccine we created against a pandemic (out of nearly 10 vaccines the majority of which used a variety of traditional methods) which lead to the biggest global vaccination campaign against any pathogen in history, a disaster.
The OP is right, still a lot of idiots around. Unfortunately for them are not very self-aware when they post on Slashdot.
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Informative)
The data is already in: the red counties in the U.S. most resistant to getting the vaccines have the highest deaths.
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Funny)
Glad you try to get our spirits up by pointing out the silver lining of the pandemic.
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I giggled about the police protesting against being vaccinated. Guess what the top killer of police was for three years now... https://abcnews.go.com/Health/... [go.com]
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https://old.reddit.com/r/Herma... [reddit.com]
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That snopes article doesn't say she wasn't political. It says she didn't actually say she wouldn't take the vaccine.
It's the equivalent of someone saying "I really like Nazis, I think they're fantastic", but marking false they're an actual Nazi because they didn't legally join the Nazi party.
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Informative)
Considering that I first have to go through the flu to get the "natural defense", yeah, I'd guess the vaccine-based antibodies are something I'd prefer.
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When you can legitimately prove with evidence that vaccine-based antibodies are actually more effective than ones created from natural defense, then society will believe that was a "vaccine".
That's been proven many times over, not just for the mRNA vaccine, but also for the less effective ones. But we can only document reality for you, it is up to you to stop substituting it with ignorance and fantasy when it is presented to you.
Where's my source? www.google.com. It's about as much respect as I afford to people who post shit as an Anonymous Coward.
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is that until not too long ago, people who simply didn't know anything about a subject didn't butt in. For good reason. In the meantime, though, we've had an ever growing number of self-proclaimed experts on pretty much any subject who will endlessly spout bullshit about anything and everything, independent of their actual level of expertise, because they noticed something: Information has a wind-chill factor. What really is doesn't matter to the people, what matters to them is how it makes them feel.
People don't want to be informed, they want their preconceived ideas verified.
And that's way easier to accomplish than to inform anyone. It's much easier to pat someone on the back and tell them that they've been right all along than to tell them that nope, it's different. And it's also a lot more what people want to hear.
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Interesting)
I sometimes wonder how this happened.
Lots of media outlets started soliciting comments. Coincided with the rise of social media and the revenue generated by interaction. Like, comment, and subscribe, as they say. The value of inexpert opinions was suddenly increased quite dramatically.
Some politicians push the idea that people voting for them are smart and independent thinkers (code for idiots), but I think that's always been there to a degree. My theory is that it was the toxic addition of social media to the mix that really kicked this off. There have always been people into conspiracy theories, but social media really turbo-changed their movements.
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A couple of my bosses would be counter-examples to that.
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Pantsing (Score:2)
This look likes a job for public pantsing. Every time someone says something dumb. Pants 'em. That'll make 'em feel like shutting up.
Let the market decide if speaking out is worth the price.
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Nope. The problem here is that you have no clue. Please shut up and go away, you are not welcome in educated society. FYI, there are tons of vaccinations that work exactly like this.
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Informative)
Take the tetanus vaccine for example. Since it's a bacteria, immunization against the microorganism isn't very effective, so instead the immune system is trained based on the lethal toxin that the bacteria produces. Thus the vaccine itself doesn't contain any microorganism but the inactivated toxin, which then causes an immune response against that toxin.
Vaccination against tetanospasmin also takes more than just a single shot. And it also needs to be refreshed every 10 years at least to maintain efficacy as immunity also vanes over time.
That is pretty normal for our adaptive immune system as keeping the levels of anti-bodies high requires energy and if the harmful agent against which the anti-bodies are produced is no longer present, over time the immune system scales the anti-body production back until it's virtually non existent. This is both true for natural exposure as well as exposure through vaccination. The main difference here would be that exposure through vaccination can happen under much more controlled conditions, where natural exposure could be so high in the first encounter, that it makes permanent injury and at worst death a lot more likely.
I'm not sure who exactly came up with that Nirvana Fallacy about vaccines having to be 100% efficient to be called vaccine. If we were going by that, then there would be virtually no vaccines, which is just ignorant of reality.
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Vaccines contain a microorganism or virus in a weakened, live or killed state, or proteins or toxins from the organism
So yeah, MRNA based stuff was SHIT. I wont even call it vaccine.
So you're OK with proteins from the organism being called a vaccine. But if your body uses mRNA to make the exact same protein, it's not a vaccine? OK. What will you call it? A prevaccine or provaccine that your body uses to make a vaccine? Probably easier to just expand the definition of vaccine than to make up new words.
We never will have proper research on how much harm mrna vaccines caused
I think we have a pretty good idea about most of the harm caused. It's not about preventing all harm, but harm reduction. Oh, you're calling it a vaccine one sentence later. But any
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No vaccine is 100% effective. But when you couple a vaccine with a decent effective rate with a sufficient proportion of the population having been vaccinated, you can start to dramatically reduce the spread and uptake of a disease.
It's the same with masks. No mask is 100% effective. But if you're masking and if I'm masking and he's masking, them the chances of infection are significantly reduced.
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)
The worst symptom was the one where the person stopped moving and never started moving again, many of us appreciated having a vaccine that dramatically reduced the chances of that happening to us and our loved ones.
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, golly, your anecdotal evidence is enough upon which to base an entire country's medical response. Real scientists have already crunched the numbers and they do not look good for your side.
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Informative)
See, I can easily find studies from "virologists in Europe" who found very high efficacy of mRNA vaccines - here's one looking at Omicron and found over 80% efficacy of the mRNA vaccine and no evidence of significant vaccine injury. (https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2022.27.37.2200697).
When looking at vaccine injury - especially the "young men dropping dead" trope, you have to remember it should always be compared to the risks experienced by the disease which, for COVID, heart disease in young men was MORE likely from getting COVID than from any of the vaccines.
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But those who took traditional vaccines, such as J&J's
The Janssen vaccine was not a traditional vaccine. It was a startup division that couldn't make its own vaccine without the parent company. It is a viral vector adenovirus that was modified to produce the COVID spike protein. Both this and the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines used the spike protein as the method of generating the immune response.
The J&J vaccine was responsible for cases of thrombosis. In other words, more clots. That's why it's not being used in the US anymore. But this particular vaccine
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Yeah... No. Don't know ONE person to who this has happened.
Well, obviously. If they're dead, you don't know them any more, all you have is the memories.
*gestures over his shoulder* get a load of this guy, he's surprised he doesn't know dead people
Survived EASILY and i am fat and tall and old, in other words risk group.
Good for you! Odds were that you would survive. But they would have been even better for you if you had been vaccinated. It also would have decreased the odds of long covid.
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Informative)
What disaster would that be?
Disaster that covid vaccines were.
They did not immunize, apart from making symptoms milder, they...
Since one of the "symptoms" was people dying, I'd say that's a good one.
If you look at the data on covid cases and covid deaths, you see that the summer 2022 surge in cases peaked at a case fatality rate of about 1%. The previous surge, before the vaccine, peaked at a case fatality rate of 3.25%.
That's a big deal.
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And even that 1% is probably overblown because people were not getting tested on the same scale in mid-2022 nor going to a doctor for a mild case.
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They did not immunize, apart from making symptoms milder they did f* all.
This is all immunizations ever do. Since all any of them ever do is train your immune system, by definition you have to be infected with something before what they have done is going to help you. Even the effects of such an infection which are not perceptible to the patient are still considered symptoms.
And we all know, that medicine that pretends is worse than no medicine.
The person who pretends they understand a word (like "immunity") without looking it up to verify that it means what they think it means is worse than the person who remains quiet.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
After the last desaster, mRNA would be an absolute no-go for anybody sane. Otoh - still lots of idiots around...
mRNA tech has been around for decades. While I can certainly understand shitting on the last pandemic, maybe not toss the baby out with the bath water just yet.
What should be a no-go, is blindly accepting any 'vaccine' without legally demanding trial data and validate testing for years before mass adoption happens. Some of the later mRNA vaccines developed were for Ebola (arguably the world's deadliest virus), but since Ebola outbreaks are thankfully minimal, further development was not justified. We cert
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
I actually applaud this. Morons like you _should_ have a higher risk of dying. Admittedly, COVID and the flu are not enough, but something is better than nothing.
I will be getting this as soon as it becomes available and I have had 4 COVID shots so far. The difference between me and you is that you have no understanding how things actually work, only overboarding arrogance about your own non-existent mental skills.
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm still wearing a mask* regularly when going into shops and other confined spaces. It's such a trivial thing to do but really helps fend off all the bugs and viruses people normally get. When I was in the office I had a Plasmacluster device on my desk and I was the only one who never got a cold or flu. Zero sick days due to viruses.
I know anecdotes aren't data, but I see no reason not to do this. Some of us are working on safe UV and low cost air purifiers too. Hopefully they become commonplace.
* A proper FFP3 one that protects me as well as you.
Re: (Score:2)
Wow...interesting.
I'm not sure where you live (US? EU?..?)...but are you pretty much the only person you see wearing a mask?
We had no big deal here in the New Orleans area.
They've taken down all the plexiglass shields at grocery stores and restaurants....we stopped wearing masks long before the rest of the US....it's been nice to be normal again.
Anyway...just curious about where you are basically in the world....
And...
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UK at the moment. Very few other people wear a mask, but my wife and I are not the only ones. Some of the plastic shields are still up, most are gone.
We are having a bit of a COVID surge right now. I'll get another booster this year.
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks for the info...very interesting.
Stay healthy!!
I don't ever hear any more about covid on the news over here...so, no idea if there are surges or not at this time.
As far as I know...the strains here just aren't that dangerous to the majority of healthy folks here, so
Re: (Score:2)
I live in Thailand.
We are wearing mask at every public place.
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I'm still wearing a mask* regularly when going into shops and other confined spaces.
I'll be honest, I was happy when we weren't required to wear a mask everywhere anymore. But the past three years has made me much more mindful of my impact on others - now I put a mask on whenever *I* am feeling slightly under the weather (not full blown sick, just that stage where you wonder if you're coming down with something or just experiencing seasonal allergies) but have to be out and about.
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It's great in countries where people mask all the time anyway. The bugs that go around here don't gain traction.
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I'm hoping that far UVC LEDs (around 222nm) become available in quantity soon. Then I can bring a UV lamp with me. At the moment the only real option is CCFL type bulbs that need higher voltage and consume a lot more power.
222nm is safe for human exposure, but kills viruses.
Re: (Score:2)
And yet for some reason (usually 'green' agenda) they are pushing people to live in densely packed urban centers.
And we saw how well that worked with covid, eh?
Not me...I hope I never have to share a wall with a neighbor again....I like my elbow room.
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Except those morons give it to immuno compromised (Score:2)
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After the last desaster, mRNA would be an absolute no-go for anybody sane. Otoh - still lots of idiots around...
Yup, complete disaster. People were even warned [imgur.com] about the death toll from using the vaccine and look what happened.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, I certainly hope so. But in the case of COVID19, there was no traditional vaccine available, so the options were to have mRNA delivered into your cells by the virus or the mRNA vaccine (or ChAdOx platform). The mRNA from the live virus would also express itself throughout vital organs, sometimes with rather devastating consequences, so it's fair enough that the risk bar was set lower during the pandemic.
But yes, I do hope they keep researching the mRNA technology because it has huge potential, but cle
Re: (Score:2)
The Pfizer/Moderna vaccines had freely circulating mRNA. Most of it stays in the muscle it was injected into, but some of it obviously makes it into the blood and gets captured by cells elsewhere.
Are they going to conclusively determine or rule out that the expression of mRNA along the endothelial cells of the blood vessels results (or doesn't result) in the formation of deep-vein blood clots?
Nobody's ruling out that mRNA has the instructions to make a spike protein that binds to the ACE2 receptor and causes clotting (just like COVID). I think it's already been somewhat revealed if not proven that heart tissue is what captures most of the free circulating mRNA and causes primarily myocarditis and not
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Hmm, I wonder why.
Yes why would a highly communicable disease spread less when people largely isolate from each other and do not make contact? We need an in-depth investigation on how this happens. Next thing you will tell me is that cancer occurs less as fewer people smoke.
Re: (Score:2)