World's First Covid Vaccine You Inhale Is Approved in China (bloomberg.com) 196
China became the first country to approve a needle-free, inhaled version of a Covid-19 vaccine made by Tianjin-based CanSino Biologics, pushing the company's shares up as much as 14.5% Monday morning in Hong Kong. From a report: China's National Medical Products Administration approved CanSino's Ad5-nCoV for emergency use as a booster vaccine, the company said in a statement to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange on Sunday. The vaccine is a new version of CanSino's one-shot Covid drug, the first in the world to undergo human testing in March 2020 and which has been used in China, Mexico, Pakistan, Malaysia and Hungary after being rolled out in February 2021. The inhaled version can stimulate cellular immunity and induce mucosal immunity to boost protection without intramuscular injection, CanSino said. Companies are looking into developing inhaled versions of vaccines to stimulate antibodies in nasal and airway tissues to defend against coronavirus. They are needle-free and can be self-administered, broadening their appeal to vaccine-hesitant people and potentially easing pressure on health-care resources.
I can't take it! (Score:2, Funny)
If Chinese vaccines are so good why the lockdowns? (Score:3)
If the Chinese vaccines actually worked why is China still pursing their zero-covid lockdown strategy? Wouldn't forced vaccination be more effective?
better question: why not buy vaccines? (Score:2)
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news... [bloomberg.com]
A vaccine mandate is much less intrusive than the current Chinese policy so I'm not sure why there was such fierce resistance.
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It was just an excuse to prevent the Shanghai Faction of the CCP from wresting power from Xi's faction. Looks like it worked as pre-lockdown it was assumed they would take power.
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Wouldn't forced vaccination be more effective?
They did it like a lot of other countries: no access to some public places if you didn't get the vaccine. Also they never said it was so good(meaning 100% protection for 0 covid). In fact they said later that (at least) one of their vaccine was not effective... Most asian countries have covid policies which sound crazy to the rest of the world. For example, beloved Japan still forbids individual tourists and only allow guided tours.
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This vaccine is new, the lockdown/zero covid policy obviously predates it.
The previous vaccine, Sinovacc, is not very effective. Only roughly 70% - 75% after 2 shots.
No idea how easy it is to vaccinate 1.5 billion people anyway.
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Vaccines don't stop you getting COVID. Look at the UK, high percentage of people double, triple or even quadruple vaccinated. Still millions got it this year and in excess of 2 million of them are suffering from Long COVID.
Vaccines help slow the spread and reduce the severity of the symptoms, but a responsible government wouldn't take that as a sign that they can let COVID rip through the population.
That should be the best approach. (Score:5, Informative)
Since the ideal immunity to COVID starts with muccosal immunity, in the nasal cavity and in the lungs, that should be the best approach. And it was one of the first ways to be investigated. But apparently it's a difficult approach to make work. I wonder if this one will be both safe and effective.
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Presumably, the recipient wlil be protected earlier than the 7-14 days that the injections require. But I'd be surprised if it was more effective.
What I don't get is why we're only on 2nd generation vaccines. The first gen are almost 2 years old at this point. AZ and J&J have known flaws. Some of the mutations of SARS-COV-2 are consistent across all strains. Mutations generally don't avoid a vaccine -- they change the shape of the virus and the proteins which means the antibodies for the old spikes
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It should be more effective, since the first cells that get infected are along the airway. But this assumes that the vaccines produce equally strong immunitites. So it's not clear.
If it works well, it could prevent "silent spreading" because the airway passages would be immune, so it couldn't grow there and spread from there before getting into the rest of the body.
spray (Score:3)
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Deliver by drone (Score:2)
A drone flies around telling citizens: ''This community is in total lockdown now. Stay in your room.''
https://twitter.com/JamesMelvi... [twitter.com]
Interactions or reactions (Score:2)
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the BOFH take.
https://www.theregister.com/20... [theregister.com]
I've got nothing against conspiracy theories in general because if they didn't exist the PFY would probably have to join a book club or a sewing circle. But even the PFY will admit there's a limit, and at lunch today we think we found it ...
"So let me get this straight," I say. "The vaccine contains tiny robots "
"Nanobots," the bloke across the table from me chips in.
"Nanobots. Right," I say, "and these nanobots are "
"What size are they?" the PFY asks. "The na
Cue the COVID nutters in 3...2...1... (Score:2)
How long before Trump, Taylor-Greene & Alex Jones are saying that Chy-NAH will be infecting all true American patriots with this & to avoid Chinese businesses and...wait...for...it... to protect yourself by wearing Freedom Masks!
Nerve Gas (Score:2)
Smells like Shit Too (Score:2)
I trust nothing that China does with vaccines or public health. A country willing to starve or lock down millions of its own citizens over policy is not one I'd take any advice or technology from; the costs are too high.
I already got the inhalable COVID vaccine... (Score:2, Insightful)
It's called Omicron and it worked great!
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>They were forced to admit that [HCQ and ivermectin] work great
Who was? Someone you held at gunpoint? Hardly a reliable source.
Some of the small early studies looked promising, but the more rigorous follow up studies all found no benefit.
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There haven't been studies on the early treatment where these drugs are suggested to be effective. There really hasn't been much study on ANY early stage treatment.
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Irony, thy name is Anonymous Coward.
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Yeah you can't trust the NIH. https://files.covid19treatment... [nih.gov]
Wow, I hadn't seen that report yet. Much of it seems to contradict what SCIENCE, I mean Fauci said (yes, I know what he meant when he said people questioning him were questioning science, but it was an incredibly foolish thing for someone to say). Very interesting reading for sure.
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Great, try that with HIV next.
Do you think all viruses are the same?
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Was this developed in a lab in Wuhan, by any chance?
Yes, and it recombines your DNA to turn you into a Chinese communist hell bent on victimising Donald Trump in any way possible even though he needs no help (or a reason for that matter) to lay claim to being the most persecuted victim in the history of the known universe.
labs in Wuhan *have been* useful (Score:5, Informative)
Jokes aside, the medical labs in wuhan have been pivotal with early sequencing of the virus:
They helped recognize that the back-then-not-yet-known SARS-CoV-2 virus was a distant cousin of the SARS-CoV and the MERS-CoV viruses (from 2 and 1 decade before, respectively) -- thus enabling to leverage all the already accumulated knowledge on coronavirus family (we already knew that Spike would be an important target for vaccination, thanks to past research) -- and provided the exact sequence of the new SARS-CoV-2's spike (thus enabling labs to start applying their know how without even needing samples sent to them).
Thus yes, medical labs in Wuhan have helped jump start the research that has brought COVID-19 vaccine, eventually leading to TFA's nasal one.
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Zhang Yongzhen released the sequence of SARS-CoV-2. In response, the government shut down his lab temporarily for rectification.
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That's why the WHO is so careful to avoid becoming partisan or getting involved with politics. The flow of medical data like that is absolutely critical and saved countless lives. If they went around assigning blame, trying to prove it was from a lab, and criticising governments, countries wouldn't report outbreaks and wouldn't release this kind of data.
That's also the reason for changing the naming from being based on the location of first detection to Greek letters.
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Not all that ironic that there's a research lab to research a disease in the area a disease is found
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No, it's not a coincidence. It's like being surprised a marine research lab is by the sea. It's there because it's more convenient
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Yup. Best to go straight to the source.
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Not if you were getting the earlier Chinese vaccines, which were somewhere between 50% effective (according to third party studies) and 80% effective (if you believe the state-owned vaccine maker): https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12... [cnn.com]
Maybe this one is better, but I'm not counting on it.
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In fairness to the Chinese the 95% effective western vaccines were not effective, did not stop the spread, and are responsible for countless miscarriages and stillbirths to the degree that the live birth rate throughout the nations which deployed them at scale is has been significantly impacted.
Everyone is blaming Wuhan but maybe they should be looking for Thanos. Wasn't there a global climate crisis that depopulation would help solve?
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They all had relatively mild symptoms and were not hospitalized, none of them died or had to be on a ventilator.
Re:The gosphel of the Church of Holy Science (Score:4, Informative)
Please don't stump for China.
The Chinese vaccines were a health disaster. Countries relying on them had far, ***far*** worse outcomes, and death rates of almost triple.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/0... [nytimes.com]
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Countries relying on them mostly had no other choice, because developed nations took up all available production of the other vaccines. The UK was actually shipping unused vaccine doses, close to expiry, to developing nations.
Your own article points out that in those countries vaccination rates are as low as 50%, and presumably that is the standard 2 doses. Most developed nations are giving out their 4th dose now.
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What was your point?
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I got covid in January 2021 before vaccines. I had a rough case but was never hospitalized. I didn't wear a mask or get a covid shot after I got si
Re:The gosphel of the Church of Holy Science (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh please. Our vaccines aren't all that wonderful either.
Joe Biden, fully vaxxed and boosted twice (Pfizer): got COVID twice thanks to Paxlovid rebound.
Jen Psaki, fully vaxxed and boosted: got COVID twice.
Kamala Harris, fully vaxxed, boosted twice (Moderna): got COVID at least once.
Yep and thanks to the vaccine none of them required oxygen a a helicopter ride to the hospital.
Re:The gosphel of the Church of Holy Science (Score:5, Insightful)
Wow, the plague-rat mod patrol is out in full force today.
Here's a simple fact: Vaccines save lives.
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-- Albert Einstein
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"Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
--Albert Einstein
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They most definitely do! As long as we aren't talking about the COVID-19 vaccine which has likely been responsible for the deaths of more babies than COVID-19 took out in old folks homes.
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Vaccines does not prevent you from getting Covid. It prevents serious illness. So you are safer with the vaccine. I have 3 shots and will take a 4th if it's required.
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There was some data to support that early on. There is also data to support the opposite.
The truth is that the virus is typically asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic and the unvaccinated are far less likely to seek professional medical treatment for viral infections in general. They are right. If you are going to the doctor and with clogged sinuses you are creating the congestion in our medical system and that is just as true today as it was pre-covid.
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Yep and thanks to the vaccine none of them required oxygen a a helicopter ride to the hospital.
You have no way of knowing that.
I wish people would stop cheering for their political and ideological teams and judge statements on the merits. Even if you agree with a conclusion this does not render all arguments leading to it valid.
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Ok...but you know a lot of people died from it right? Especially older people
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Yes, mostly older people with otherwise compromised systems. The average age of death for COVID-19 is the same as the average of death for all causes. A lot of people have also died from the vaccine.
Older folks tend to die more in general while younger folks are less likely to die which is why we age correct mortality statistics. Essentially none of the mortality statistics widely circulated for COVID-19 were age corrected for some reason. When you age correct then at its worst COVID was comparable to road
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Ok, so the excess deaths have been fairly enormous - around 12% more deaths than expected which correlates with the deaths reported from COVID, so we can see that even if the people were not in ideal health, COVID19 did cause more people to die. Correcting for age or "over counting for co-morbidities" doesn't change the excess deaths.
A lot of people have also died from the vaccine.
When you say "a lot" you're being blatantly misleading here. There have been a handful of deaths due to the vaccine, with the mRNA vaccines being exceptionally safe. It's a r
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Cool story bro! How much do you bench?
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True. And like most people in that boat he never got COVID again.
Re:forced (Score:5, Insightful)
ask yourself whether this technique could be used to distribute other "substances"
Whats the effective dosage for this vaccine, how many particles how far up the nasal channel does it need to be effective. You are talking about taking a medication that is probably meant to be deployed in an air volume less than a cubic inch to work and thinking we can manufacture and deploy in such an amount of thousands of cubic feet, even in a single room.
Also it's funny to talk about informed consent of exposure when that's been the argument for vaccine mandates in the first place. I never had informed consent to be around people infected with a disease and spreading it around.
Could this vaccine be distrubted by an air mister? I guess in the most theoretical sense but theres multiple practical issues that make it extremely ineffective even if there was nefarious shadow cabal looking to "vaccinate" everyone. It's grasping for straws.
You want to avoid the medical establishment, good on you, I really don't care but you need to live that life Christian Scientist style. Got cancer? Broken leg? Covid? Stay home. Are your principles real or not.
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Many people are asymptomatic. Just like with the flu or a cold.
Re: forced (Score:2)
Agreed, that makes the point even stronger, people around me spreading the virus without my informed consent!
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It isn't a very strong point. One is the natural default outcome, an 'act of god' like a hurricane while the other exposure is an artificial outcome that would result from deliberate human efforts.
Your risk of exposure to a virus propagating in the wild (without informed consent) doesn't exist because someone didn't get vaccinated, it exists because a virus evolved in the wild. The source of that risk is nature and not the unvaccinated. Your risk of exposure to an air propagated genetic mutagen like the vac
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If people are sick and choose to still go out they are putting me and others at risk, full stop.
Act of god means nobody could have taken action to prevent it. Every person can make the responsible choice and quanratine themselves when infected.
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"You are talking about taking a medication that is probably meant to be deployed in an air volume less than a cubic inch to work and thinking we can manufacture and deploy in such an amount of thousands of cubic feet, even in a single room."
And? We are talking about China, they can and would spend billions doing exactly that if so inclined and wouldn't give a rats ass about consent. mRNA is cheap and easy to reproduce and the process can scale as large as you'd like.
They wouldn't dump it into the large volu
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First, I didn't say I supported mandates I said that was the argument behind mandates.
Second I don't think the pharma companies are "benevolent" that's a childlike way to look at it. What does seem to be true is the pharma companies have an incentive to produce effective medicine because thats where their profits come from, these are publically traded companies after all.
The guy who calls me a "commie bernie bro" is the one I have to explain the concept that capitalism does not require anyone to be "benevl
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Firstly vaccines are not these huge money makers for pharma companies.
Second almost all vaccines even modern ones are multiple doses. Look at the CDC schedule for children, most end up getting 2-4 doses over a few years.
Third if this common quasi conspiracy is in fact true and companies are holding out from "the good medicine" in the name of profits that makes a better case for removing the profit motive from medical care altogether, I can get on board with that.
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"Third if this common quasi conspiracy is in fact true and companies are holding out from "the good medicine" in the name of profits that makes a better case for removing the profit motive from medical care altogether, I can get on board with that."
A 'conspiracy' to follow their own interests isn't much of a 'theory.' Everyone 'conspires' to serve their own interests, that is the innate outcome of having interests and motivation.
I'm also on board with removing the profit motive from medical care altogether
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A 'conspiracy' to follow their own interests isn't much of a 'theory.' Everyone 'conspires' to serve their own interests, that is the innate outcome of having interests and motivation.
I mean its hard to disagree with that becuase it's essentially describing some of the underlying principles of capitalism, the system drives desirable outcomes without any of the actors involved needing to have "good" motivations. Of course what is supposed to discourage such bad behavior like that is the idea of competition and consumer knowledge driving purchasing decisions.
Of course I and many others tend to make the argument that due to the nature of medical care normal market forces break down and tha
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Firstly vaccines are not these huge money makers for pharma companies.
Tens of billion dollars in profit for covid vaccines in the last year alone is not huge money or the $6 billion made yearly on flu vaccines.
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6 billion in revenue or profits? Most vaccines are pretty low margin things, especially compared to other theraputic drugs. Pfizers big money maker year over year is still Viagra.
I am not a fan of the US for profit healthcare system, i'm not here to defend the system but this idea that pharma copanies are engaged in some nefarious scheme to develop half-good medicines to eek out profits isn't really borne out in reality. Really the biger issue is getting some companies to develop drugs for certain things
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And how much does each shot cost to manufacture and how much money in development went into making it happen?
When else in recent history has a company had the oppurtunity to sell billions of vaccine doses in such a short amount of time? This was certianly an unprecedented event but historically vaccnes are a pretty low margin type of product.
Also for all their profit they have made off the vaccine (and they deserve some uptick for succeeding in getting a working version out, lots of other companies tried a
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"And how much does each shot cost to manufacture and how much money in development went into making it happen?"
That is one of the great myths of drug and vaccine development. First, very little goes into cost to manufacture in all cases. The real cost is all in development which is why companies selling generics can rake in insane profits selling the same drugs for $5/bottle. That big conspiracy about needlessly pushing hydrocodone for crazy profits? Yeah, that is generic and unpatented $5/bottle medication
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Partially true. Developing a maufacturing method to scale production is not easy either, or cheap, and in the case of Pfizer they ended up building several new facitilies to produce CV19 vaccines on a mass scale. To be fair governments helped subsidize that cost but my point was we cant just ignore those items when looking at the big picture.
Also while it's true governments and universities do quite a bit of the foundational research for new drugs there is a lot of cost to take that idea, prove it out, a
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That's 400m shots at $20 each. $8 billion sounds like a lot.
A billion is only a lot if a single person has such an amount of money. Bottom line it is not much.
Secondly you mix up $20 per shot at the doctor with the amount ending in the pocket of the Pharma company, which is probably not even $2.
Up to you to figure how many people you can make a millionaire by gifting them an equal part from those $8 billion, perhaps it makes you realize how few money that actually is.
For reference, the latest USAN super car
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A billion is an insane amount of money. Until the recent administration $2-3 billion was enough to pay for major national initiatives in the United States.
As for the $23, you have it mixed up. The cost is likely around $0.30 while the rest is pure profit. Hydrocodone aka Vicodine, the big money maker with the global conspiracy for overprescription is a GENERIC medication that costs around $5 for an entire bottle. mRNA has a few more lab processes around it but it is still quite cheap. Basically they just ar
Re: forced (Score:2)
Re: forced (Score:2)
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The parent seems to be making light of a most disturbing development. Until now, on the whole, you have at least had some chance of avoiding those substances. Stay away from hospitals and surgeries, run from anyone carrying a hypodermic...
But now you could be exposed anywhere, any time - without even knowing it... ask yourself whether this technique could be used to distribute other "substances". And even which substances are being imposed on people that way right now.
If you have never watched the TV series Fringe, you really owe it to yourself to dig it up and start bingeing. If you HAVE watched it - well, that could explain a lot...
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I take Lantus insulin by hypodermic twice a day, and insulin aspart before each meal, using a pen. What am I supposed to do, run away from myself?
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This is seriously underrated. There were monsters who literally suggested rounding up unvaccinated and putting them in concentration camps.
Also if there is anywhere they would mass produce something like a vaccine and pump it into strategic congestion points like rails, airport hallways, etc it is China.
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Re:I hope our pharma companies are working on this (Score:4, Informative)
So AFAIC, failure to draw back the plunger to check for blood before pushing the vaccine is at least extremely negligent and perhaps criminal.
What the fuck are you on. There is literally not a medical professional in the world that pulls back the plunger to "check for blood" before giving a vaccine. The only time you ever pull on the plunger is to take blood, you never *EVER* go back and forth. That would be truly negligent.
And even then your concern is myopericarditis? WTF man, incident rates of myopericarditis in the COVID-19 vaccine are among the lowest of any vaccines we have ever created. Lower than the flu shot and definitely lower than the smallpox or polio vaccines.
I only hope one day we develop a drug that gives people some much needed perspective and then administers it to the world via chemtrails.
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WTF man, incident rates of myopericarditis in the COVID-19 vaccine are among the lowest of any vaccines we have ever created.
Not to mention lower than if you actually catch COVID.
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There is literally not a medical professional in the world that pulls back the plunger to "check for blood" before giving a vaccine.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5333604/
So what the fuck are YOU on? You might want to at least do a quick Google search before shooting off your keyboard claiming the non-existence of something which clearly still is, and has been for decades, a common practice. Hell, even my pharmacist pulls back before pushing my flu vaccine. BTW, I can handle doubt and disagreement, but please don't call me a liar, even indirectly. I didn't make up the conversations I referred to with the doctor and the two
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Kindly stop being such an asshole.
I treat people with the respect they deserve. If you don't want to see the arsehole in me then stop spreading pointless COVID bullshit. Even if aspiration were a common practice for the injection of vaccines (they aren't, it's used in other medical procedures in controlled environments not for general vaccinations) the chance of developing myopericarditis are so small that your post isn't worth existing on the internet. The chances of myopericarditis being introduced are tiny, and the chances that the resul
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Even if aspiration were a common practice for the injection of vaccines (they aren't, it's used in other medical procedures in controlled environments not for general vaccinations)...
Citation please. I have been unable to find any support for what you just said, and my direct questioning of trained and experienced healthcare professionals contradicts you.
So next time you suggest someone doing something perfectly normal is "least extremely negligent and perhaps criminal" and that with billions doses safely administered of this drug world wide you "haven't found a way to have the shot administered correctly"...
Agreed - I over-reacted, and I apologise. I'll retract that statement and replace it with the contention that failure to aspirate is "ill-advised" and that "I have a very strong preference for having my next Covid shot administered by someone who aspirates first".
the chance of developing myopericarditis are so small that your post isn't worth existing on the internet.
Megalomania, much? At least now I won't have to think about whether someth
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he only time you ever pull on the plunger is to take blood, you never *EVER* go back and forth.
That is plain wrong. There are plenty of situations where you go back and forth. Simply depends on the medication and where/how it is supposed to be applied.
The COVID vaccines I'm aware of, are suppsed to be given into the msucle mass, there is no blood.
Re: An inhaler is good. (Score:2)
Re:There are no vaccines for Covid (Score:5, Insightful)
it is hilarious that the people who are most critical of the "mainstream media" are the quickest to turn their brains off and lap up all the garbage alternative media feeds them like its godamn ice cream.
Re:There are no vaccines for Covid (Score:5, Informative)
No one has redefined the word "vaccine", you lying piece of shit.
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Is this a joke or are you just really stupid?
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Ah, you're just really stupid.
Re:Old Technology, New Greed. (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me explain this for the terminally stupid:
- You don't want to get sick.
- You get vaccinated so that you don't get sick.
- You're proposing that people get sick ... so that they don't get sick.
- That's stupid and you should feel bad for saying something that stupid.
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As it happens, the vaccines in question absolutely meet the definition of vaccine.
The only group trying to redefine the term 'vaccine' are the right-wing conspiracy nuts, who seem to be shockingly ignorant as to the nature and purpose of vaccines.
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Let me explain this for the terminally stupid.
- You don't want to get sick.
- The vaccine is known to cause genetic damage that amounts to 'sick' and in some cases dying. Ask my dead mother-in-law. Also it doesn't stop you from getting sick. Even claims it reduces the amount of sick you might get are sketchy.
- He's proposing that people assume the small risk they MIGHT get sick from a mostly asymptomatic illness, after which they are highly unlikely to get it again.
- You are proposing they take the definite
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The vaccine is known to cause genetic damage
Stopped reading there. This is 100% pure unadulterated bullshit.
Fuck right off with your insane conspiracy nonsense.
Re:Old Technology, New Greed. (Score:4, Informative)
The vaccines are very effective. We have the data to prove it. Stop lying.
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Wait ... Are you one of those morons that think the vaccine is a secret plot to depopulate the planet?
My wife and I are fully vaxxed and boosted and plan to get the update as soon as it's available. Neither one of us has died or has even so much as gotten sick. Oh, and we test regularly as well like responsible people do.
When are we supposed to drop dead now? IIRC, it supposed to be last November. LOL! Did you idiots just pick a new random new time frame when it became obvious that nothing was going t
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No. I never said anything about depopulating the planet.
That's you trying to strawman.
The rest of your argument is "Well *I* am fine, so anyone claiming harm from the stuff is a liar.
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.