More Than Half of Americans Have Been Infected With COVID-19 At Least Once, Says CDC (nytimes.com) 263
The common perception that nearly everyone in America seemed to have acquired the Omicron variant last winter may not have been far from the truth. By February 2022, nearly 60 percent of the population had been infected with the coronavirus, almost double the proportion seen in December 2021, according to data released on Tuesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The New York Times reports: "By February 2022, evidence of previous Covid-19 infections substantially increased among every age group," Dr. Kristie Clarke, the agency researcher who led the study, said at a news briefing. Infections rose most sharply during the Omicron surge among children and adolescents, perhaps because many people in those age groups were still unvaccinated. The increase was smallest among adults 65 or older, who have the highest rate of vaccination and may be the most likely to take precautions. The new research suggests that three out of four children and adolescents in the United States had been infected with the coronavirus by February 2022, compared with one-third of older adults.
While some studies suggest that prior infection offers a weaker shield against the virus than vaccines do, the resulting antibodies should provide a reasonable degree of protection against severe illness, at least in the short term. "We still do not know how long infection-induced immunity will last," Dr. Clarke said. The gains in population-wide immunity may explain why the new surge that is roaring through China and many countries in Europe has been muted in the United States so far. The findings may offer some comfort to parents who have been waiting anxiously for a vaccine to be approved for the youngest children. Many of those children now seem to have acquired at least some immunity. Even so, Dr. Clarke urged parents to immunize children who qualify as soon as regulators approve a vaccine for them, regardless of any prior infection.
While some studies suggest that prior infection offers a weaker shield against the virus than vaccines do, the resulting antibodies should provide a reasonable degree of protection against severe illness, at least in the short term. "We still do not know how long infection-induced immunity will last," Dr. Clarke said. The gains in population-wide immunity may explain why the new surge that is roaring through China and many countries in Europe has been muted in the United States so far. The findings may offer some comfort to parents who have been waiting anxiously for a vaccine to be approved for the youngest children. Many of those children now seem to have acquired at least some immunity. Even so, Dr. Clarke urged parents to immunize children who qualify as soon as regulators approve a vaccine for them, regardless of any prior infection.
Failing up (Score:5, Insightful)
Like Churchill said, you can always count on America to do the right thing after trying absolutely everything else first.
Re: (Score:2)
that's what one news outlet called it. We didn't get hit as hard by the BA.2 variant as the rest of the world not because we were well prepared, masked up and vaccinated but because so many folks got sick (and died) there weren't a lot left to get sick (or die).
I have discussed this with a few folks, and they tend to want to put a person in the anti-vaxxer camp if the person dares say anything like that.
Which is weird, because I've gotten the initial shots, the booster, and will be getting the second booster soon. It's just like wearing a condom if you want to avoid becoming a papa or catch snifulous.
But yes - the Covid-19 virus took out a lot of people that it was going to take out, and a lot who were anti-vaxxers on a sort of random basis. We learned how t
Re:Failing up (Score:4, Insightful)
>"Locally, the death numbers are now down in the noise levels, along with other flu strains. It's hard to call it a pandemic any more when it's only a couple people a week against our population base."
Indeed. It is now ENDEMIC, which most expected.
>"Masking made sense at the time,"
That depends on what you mean by "at the time" which masks. Until we knew it was an aerosolized, air-borne virus It might have been reasonable. But we knew it pretty quickly, and typical cloth and paper masks don't do much against aerosolized virus spread, especially the way most people handled and wore them. N-95 type, properly fitted, worn, handled, and replaced, at that point, was the only "effective" masking.
Re: (Score:3)
>"Masking made sense at the time,"
That depends on what you mean by "at the time" which masks. Until we knew it was an aerosolized, air-borne virus It might have been reasonable. But we knew it pretty quickly, and typical cloth and paper masks don't do much against aerosolized virus spread, especially the way most people handled and wore them. N-95 type, properly fitted, worn, handled, and replaced, at that point, was the only "effective" masking.
Same goes for all those poster-sized acrylic barriers that sprang up everywhere. The companies manufacturing/selling those things surely must've made as much money in the past two years as they made in the entire past two decades.
Physical barriers made sense as a potential mitigation at the time because we were thinking of it in scenarios that were easy for laypeople to understand visually -- that scene early in a plague/zombie movie where the audience watches Patient Zero sneeze on someone in a bus station
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Failing up (Score:5, Informative)
Canada and Australia have lower per capita deaths than the USA. In fact Australia has 1/10 the number of deaths. Go ahead and populate the chart for yourself.
https://ourworldindata.org/cov... [ourworldindata.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Let me guess what the reply will be:
"America's numbers are higher because they're reporting everything from stubbed toes upwards as a case of COVID"
You're missing the point on vaccines (Score:5, Informative)
You're also missing the point on lockdowns. They're not there to stop people from every catching the virus, they're there to buy time for vaccines and to spread infection out so your hospital system doesn't get overwhelmed.
Pre vaccination COVID had around a 20% hospitalization rate. If 10-15% of the US population hit our hospital system at once it would collapse and most of those people would die. Imagine losing 15-20 million Americans plus another 5 or 10 to complications after the dust settled. That's what we were looking at.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you for political and economic gain.
Re:You're missing the point on vaccines (Score:4, Interesting)
In hindsight:
Lockdowns, extreme early cautionary measures, masking, encouraging responsible behavior, and rapid vaccine development were indeed extremely valuable (and ingenious) tools deployed to keep the medical system from being overwhelmed during the first phase of the pandemic.
Then came the dual-headed monster: the huge percentage of people indifferent to listening to the experts, and the incredibly infectious omicron variant. The equation was flipped on its head. Nations that were initially very successful at stopping the spread are suffering the effects of widespread initial infection, and the nations predisposed to herd immunity plausibly through ignorance, are presently suffering less.
Had the virus been much more deadly, the outcome might've been much different.
Re: (Score:2)
Early lockdowns were very valuable until vaccines were available and distributed.
Nations that locked down hard then couldn't get people to take vaccines are suffering now.
Nations that had a mediocre response and couldn't get people to take vaccines already suffered and I guess are now patting themselves on the back?
Re: (Score:2)
Nations that locked down hard then couldn't get people to take vaccines are suffering now.
Not as badly as those who had widespread infection in 2020. Treatments have improved, and the smart people are vaccinated, including most medical staff.
But here in Australia, the stated goal of border closures and quarantine was only ever to buy us time until people were vaccinated.
It was never intended to be long-term, as China appears to be doing.
And it worked. Right now we are seeing a lot of infections, but the hospitalisation and death rate is very low.
In my state, WA, we've so far had 5 deaths per 10
Successful nations locked down then vaccinated (Score:5, Interesting)
Australia had virtually zero Covid cases for two years. Then 90% vaccination rate. And now quite a lot of omicron cases with lock down lifted but very few in hospital let alone dead.
Adjust the strategy according to the circumstances. Moderately infectious alpha variant, keep it at zero. Highly infectious Delta/Omicron and reasonably effective vaccines available: Open up.
Through some combination of luck and judgement we got this one right.
(China got phase one right, but now needs to move to phase two.)
Re: (Score:2)
China is the one that's suffering. Their vaccine isn't great, and apparently lots of people, especially in Hong Kong, didn't want to take it. Still better than what it would be with no vaccine though.
Re: (Score:2)
China is the one that's suffering. Their vaccine isn't great, and apparently lots of people, especially in Hong Kong, didn't want to take it.
Not just HK. Mainland China has very low vaccination rates for the elderly.
Last month, only about half of over-80s are double-dosed. But now that the virus is spreading there, I hope the vaccine rate will climb quickly.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/20... [abc.net.au]
You understand that's kind of like saying (Score:2)
Re:You're missing the point on vaccines (Score:5, Interesting)
The unknown here is Long COIVD. What data there is suggests that even with vaccines people are getting it. In the UK it's running at somewhere between 1 and 1.5 million people, which is going to be a serious problem if they drop out of the workforce and end up living on disability benefits. Even if they just reduce their working hours and need tax credits/food banks to make up the shortfall...
Re: You're missing the point on vaccines (Score:3, Informative)
"Pre vaccination COVID had around a 20% hospitalization rate."
Jesus, you're so full of shit.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
And do you have any idea how many politically motivated lies you regurgitate?
Re:You're missing the point on vaccines (Score:5, Informative)
> I used to believe that vaccination was a rational response to a pandemic, but now I'm not so sure. I remember when vaccines actually prevented the spread of disease, but now the claim is that they merely slow the spread so that hospitals can keep up.
Still is part of a rational response to viruses like COVID. The seasonal flu is the same, vaccines reduce the severity of the disease and it's transmission rate. When you say "I remember when vaccines actually prevented the spread of disease" what you're referring to is how some vaccines work for some diseases. That hasn't changed, vaccines still work that way for some diseases.
I'm kind of surprised that misunderstanding still exists.
Re: (Score:2)
I used to believe that vaccination was a rational response to a pandemic, but now I'm not so sure. I remember when vaccines actually prevented the spread of disease
Those vaccines are still preventing those diseases.
Vaccines against something that constantly mutates? We needs constant new vaccines to match the mutations. Is that so difficult to comprehend?
But at least the 1% are now better off than they were 2 years ago.
If they weren't doing it through vaccines they'd be doing it through something else. At least this time we're getting something in return.
Re: (Score:2)
How do you explain situation in highly-vaccinated countries like Canada or highly locked down countries like Australia that are in a similar situation?
Canada here. My 95 yo triple vaxxed mother in long term care has made it through 2 years of this, but many others have not.
Much of America seems happy with culling their oldsters. Turnover on those inheritances is good for the economy?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That was mostly in NY and MI...where the governors there saw fit to house younger sick covid folks with the old timers....
It was pretty close to murder.
Thank you Cuomo and Gretchen!
Re: Failing up (Score:4, Insightful)
I still see people driving their cars all by themselves wearing a mask. And most of those masks are cloth ones which have scientifically been proven to be nearly useless. Masks have been and mostly are a safety blanket. It makes people that need control over their lives (and others) feel safer. Had they required N95 or equivalent once the initial supply shortages eased up, then the mandates would have made some sense. Having the mandates allow cloth masks showed the true colors of the mandates.
Pushing vaccine development and reducing red tape was the one thing that truly made a difference. It may not have stopped people from getting covid, but the vaccines have at least reduced the impacts and severity of getting it. Most of the other things we did likely did more long term harm than good to things like our economy and the mental health/development of school age kids.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
I still see people driving their cars all by themselves wearing a mask.
I never understood this particular criticism. Not because wearing a mask in a car by yourself made any kind of sense, but because there are billions of so-far-inside-the-realm-of-possibility-I-can't-believe-I-actually-need-to-name-one reasons for that to have occurred. For example, a person is out running multiple errands to multiple places and doesn't care to fiddle with their mask while traveling between them.
If you accept that masks make sense, then you must also accept that the more you fiddle with
Re: (Score:2)
Let me stand in your space and sneeze.
Do you prefer me to wear a mask or not?
Masks have been and mostly are a safety blanket. It makes people that need control over their lives (and others) feel safer.
Let me guess: You're one of those narcissists who think that wearing a mask it to protect YOU.
Re: Failing up (Score:2)
Did you just sneeze into the air without covering your mouth before masks? If not, thel why would anyone care if you're wearing a mask.
Like we've been doing for generations if not longer.
"We still don't know" (Score:2, Informative)
>"We still do not know how long infection-induced immunity will last,"
We also still do not "know" how long vaccine-induced immunity will last, either. Most studies I have seen show that infection-induced immunity is strong and lasts quite a long time (as in many months to possibly years). How effective antibodies from one variant will be against various other variants that come out isn't that well known, either. And as was saw, the vaccines lost a lot of effectiveness (from infection) against Omicron.
Re: (Score:2)
At this point, the flu shot is making a joke of the modern wonder that was the COVID shot. Kids under five still aren't even eligible and they are still testing using a version that targets only the original variant. It's shameful.
But I don't see an issue with there being annual or twice yearly shots if it continues to improve outcomes. But we won't have that if it doesn't get adapted.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, the technology for old flu vaccinations are a "guess what might come out" type thing, and are not greatly variant-proof. I took last year's flu vaccine as usual, but it turns out (like it has in many years) to have been very, very ineffective at what ultimately spread. Still I will take it anyway... I have for 30+ years.
The technology for the COVID-19 vaccinations is far more robust. Even so, it will need adjustments to help deal with variants. I am perfectly willing to take updated vaccines for C
Re: (Score:2)
That's why more frequent boosters are needed. It's a very imperfect match so it only works if it's very recent.
Re: (Score:2)
That's why more frequent boosters are needed. It's a very imperfect match so it only works if it's very recent.
That's some of the issue, but not the main issue. The big problem is the rate the virus replicates in your body. The original strain of COVID-19 was one of the fastest replicating viruses we've ever seen. The more recent strains replicate significantly faster than anything else we've dealt with.
If you've recently been vaccinated or infected, you have very high levels of antibodies in your blood. As time pass, the levels go down, and eventually reach a level where they'll stay long term. This level is enough
Re: (Score:2)
If the only goal was to prevent infection altogether, I would worry about that. As long as it curbs the risks of severe disease and all the weird clotting disorders, it's still worth it.
Re: "We still don't know" (Score:2)
On the other hand, masking and distancing may have wiped out at least one flu variant.
Imagine what we could accomplish if we actually incorporated germ theory into the way we build things.
Your air exchange system has more to do with your COVID risk than your mask. Maybe even more than the vaccine.
Re: (Score:2)
>"Imagine what we could accomplish if we actually incorporated germ theory into the way we build things. Your air exchange system has more to do with your COVID risk than your mask. Maybe even more than the vaccine."
Absolutely. I think the idea of putting UV scrubbers/zappers and HEPA filters in HVAC systems for public buildings could be a HUGE win. Might need to be combined with increased (and non-stop) airflow settings.
I've seen the exact opposite (Score:4, Informative)
And that's before you stop for a moment and think about the risk of getting covid. Measle parties were an incredibly dangerous and stupid idea.
That said I will be waiting for my fourth shot but not because I don't trust and want vaccines but because I'm trying to time it for another Spike. So probably be around the time I get my flu shot
Re: I've seen the exact opposite (Score:2)
The only reason the vaccine should be chosen over natural infection is the risk of a bad case. If you choose a vaccine, then you should stop masking and expose yourself to a natural infection before your vaccine wears off. Because natural immunity is how we actually stop this long-term.
Re:I've seen the exact opposite (Score:5, Informative)
Is there a historical precedent for this? Is there a scientific basis for this? Is there an evidentiary basis for this?
I patiently await credible evidence.
Three things:
1) We can measure antibody levels in your bloodstream. We've known since very early on in the pandemic that the antibodies generated after an infection fade very quickly, and often aren't even detectable after a few months.
2) When your body develops antibodies, it's not necessarily going to react to the exact same point on the virus that another person's immune system might react to. Or you might have a slightly different strain than another person, so your antibodies might be a little different than another person's. There's going to be a natural variance in antibodies. The vaccines are created by picking portions of the virus that are known to be fairly stable and generate a strong immune response. You're guiding the immune system to produce ideal antibodies.
3) Vaccines are given in multiple doses because the repeat exposures help your immune system generate memory cells that provide long term protection. This has been extremely well studied for decades.
And that's before you stop for a moment and think about the risk of getting covid.
The issue at hand is not competition between vaccination and infection.
The issue is only whether or not there is any added benefit of vaccination following a natural infection.
Natural infection provides a lower level of protection than one vaccine dose does, so a full vaccination course after infection would prove a large benefit.
Re: (Score:3)
Natural infection provides a lower level of protection than one vaccine dose does, so a full vaccination course after infection would prove a large benefit.
OMG, this is marked informative! How much politics has influenced critical thinking.
You've got Google (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The vast majority of studies I've seen indicate that vaccine-induced immunity is much more durable than virus induced immunity.
Is there a historical precedent for this? Is there a scientific basis for this?
There's clearly a plausible mechanism. A couple of them, actually: targeting and immune response level.
First, targeting. When you get a disease, your immune system reacts by identifying protein markers of the disease to target to wipe it out, and to identify and attack in the future. But this identification process is kind of random; it's just whatever sufficiently-unique surface proteins happen to get selected.
mRNA vaccines provoke immunity in a different way, engineered, not random. Researchers pick s
Re: (Score:2)
It is not unreasonable to think that an infection of Omicron offers better protection against recent mutations than even the now aging vaccines.
Actually, unfortunately, it is. I use to think that too but there have been several articles from virologists pointing out that once you get a large degree of immunity to one strain whichever strain that manages to mutate to avoid it becomes a new dominant strain and there is no reason to suppose that this will be a derivative of omicron.
However, it seems that some work is now being done to develop vaccines that will let the immune system target parts of the virus that are much harder to mutate than the
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, unfortunately, it is. I use to think that too but there have been several articles from virologists pointing out that once you get a large degree of immunity to one strain whichever strain that manages to mutate to avoid it becomes a new dominant strain and there is no reason to suppose that this will be a derivative of omicron.
The faster replicating strains seem to be so dominant that they wipe out the older strains. Delta pretty much eliminated the original strain, and Omicron has pretty much eliminated Delta. The older strains can't mutate if they're not circulating.
Also keep in mind the primary reason Omicron is so bad - it replicates way faster than any other virus we've seen. Omicron replicates so fast that your immune system can't prevent infection unless have extremely high antibody levels. If it's been a while since you'v
Re: (Score:2)
>"It is beyond any doubt that a person's death from covid 19 imparts infinite immunity. Not one person who has died from Covid-19 has ever caught it again."
Life always leads to death. That is certain.
>"While some people are willing to take the chance because they believe that recovering will give them better immunity for later - it's not entirely logical that they would even care, because they weren't worried about immunity or death or disfigurement the first time. Sometimes you gamble and you win, so
Re: (Score:3)
>"It is beyond any doubt that a person's death from covid 19 imparts infinite immunity. Not one person who has died from Covid-19 has ever caught it again."
Life always leads to death. That is certain.
>"While some people are willing to take the chance because they believe that recovering will give them better immunity for later - it's not entirely logical that they would even care, because they weren't worried about immunity or death or disfigurement the first time. Sometimes you gamble and you win, sometimes you lose."
Yeah, I gave up trying to understand people a long time ago. The best I can tell, I never did get COVID-19. (Got a few colds that both tested negative) Of course, I was also vaccinated three times. I thought for certain I would still get Omicron, but nope. I am not sure how I would have decided if I already had COVID-19 before I had access to the vaccine. I probably would have been hesitant, and I don't think that is unreasonable.
It's like safe sex or wearing a seat belt. Is that babe I boinked going to give me HIV? Am I going to even need my seat belt?
Not at all likely, but I believe we can have decent lives while still being careful.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
>"With that said, I'd like to think that the measures we attempted did have a positive effect."
Some did, like vaccinations and EVENTUALLY protecting the elderly in institutions. Many did not or had very little impact, like cloth masking, gloves, simple social distancing. Others created probably as much or more damage and death than saved damage and death, like the shutdowns combined with extreme fear-mongering.
>"Next time, we'll know better than to shut everything down"
Or force people to wear drople
Re: This has never happened before. (Score:2)
Social distancing had a huge impact.
Standing in line at the grocery store trying to find your 6' marker sticker is not social distancing.
Eating two tables away from other patrons is not social distancing.
Social distancing is staying home.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't want to write off "shutting it down" as an option, quarantine is the the purest core form of pandemic treatment. It's especially important if your rates are spiking and your hospitals are at risk of being overwhelmed.
Thing is you have to shut it all the way down, like to the bones and close to everywhere at once, which means you need a plan in place ahead of time for how you deal with utilities, food, the elderly and infirmed and you really need some form of central coordination and cooperation.
Qu
Re: (Score:2)
China is hardly the first country in history to enforce a large quarantine, let's just relax here.
You're probably right but I'd like to think we could all come together and stay put for 2-3 weeks if it meant making the next year of all our lives easier.
Re: This has never happened before. (Score:2)
And how do you expect 350 million people to come to the same conclusion as you at the same time as you?
This is a bit like a prisoner's dilemma. If you act first, you suffer the most. Minimizing suffering requires an impossibly complicated consensus to act.
Re: This has never happened before. (Score:2)
If it only kills people who would have died in a couple years anyway, it's much better than if it's killing kids. I'd like to see better stats on how many full lives we've lost.
Loss of Smell, How Long Does it Last (Score:2)
I got COVID-Classic yesterday and lost my sense of smell. How long does the loss of smell last?
Re: (Score:3)
I got COVID-Classic yesterday and lost my sense of smell. How long does the loss of smell last?
It varies wildly from person to person. When I got Original Recipe Covid, I spent about a week being completely incapable of tasting or smelling a blessed thing. I literally couldn't tell the difference between milk and lemon juice, and couldn't smell either steak or bleach.
The second week it started to peek through. I wasn't able to tell whether i was drinking red wine or white wine, but I was able to tell that i was drinking wine rather than coffee. I usually find jalebi [wikipedia.org] so sweet that a container would la
Re: (Score:2)
I will also point out that many viral infections can cause loss of smell, not just COVID-19. My whole life I have known people who lost their smell for days, weeks, or months after certain colds and flus. The good news is that although it seems more common and longer-lasting with COVID-19, I haven't seen any hard evidence of it being permanent.
Re: (Score:3)
How long does the loss of smell last?
Until after the mid-term election.
Enough already. (Score:3)
TFS goes on and on about how many people have been "infected", within the context of global pandemic and vaccines.
Vaccines do not make you immune from catching the virus. They work to make your body rather immune from the effects of it. Therefore, it is naturally assumed with any virulent disease or virus that most people are going to get infected with it. Probably well over 50%. It's kind of the entire point of working to develop a vaccine. We certainly don't go through that amount of effort for everything out there.
Given that fact, why are we speaking in bullshit-clickbait-scaremongering dialect here? Are we going to start talking about the flu like this too? I'll bet a very large percentage of Americans have caught the flu. Some have died from it. And? Sadly, I can't even begin to believe COVID statistics anymore due to the incurable Disease of Greed that has plagued our species for thousands of years, which of course is yet another reason to write an article to help kick up booster demand that is dropping faster than a CNN+ audience.
Re:Herd immunity is real, and it's spectacular (Score:4, Funny)
I herd you’re a little slow.
Re:Herd immunity is real, and it's spectacular (Score:5, Informative)
to even more quickly reach the herd immunity we have now
We do not have herd immunity, nor are we close to having herd immnityA. If you want to reach "herd immunity" you would need to kill off millions of people in the country and have tens of millions more suffer through covid to have even a remote chance of getting close. [nytimes.com]
So cut the crap about "herd immunity". It's not going to happen. Ever.
Current infection figures show that we have in fact achieved this desirable state
No, we have not. Current infection figures show a) over 1 million people (that we know about) have died of covid, 2) millions more are suffering long term effects of having been infected with covid, and 3) mass vaccinations and mask wearing have significantly contributed to any decline in both deaths and infections.
as even new more infectious variants are not able to gain much of a foothold in the U.S
Which is why infection cases are once again rising [mercurynews.com] across the country with the omicron BA.2 variant now comprising over 90% of all new infections.
Epidemiologists say herd immunity is impossible (Score:5, Interesting)
The end result is the virus just circulates. The only real way to stop it would be to use eminent domain to seize the rights to manufacture the vaccine so that it could be made available globally while forcing people to get vaccinated. And fat chance of that happening. So we're going to be living with it pretty much indefinitely and a large percentage of us will die of it in our old age while a small percentage will die of it and are younger age.
Re: Epidemiologists say herd immunity is impossib (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The NYT article you linked literally says it was originally estimated at 60-70% and is it likely is higher.
We clearly haven't reached herd immunity given how much it's still spreading
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re: (Score:2)
pandemics become endemic.
Which they always do.
It really can't go any other way, and never could have.
It also means that, at this point, pretty much everybody has been exposed to the virus, and will continue to be exposed regularly and often.
And that things like mask mandates and lockdowns are utterly pointless. For any medical purpose. They still have their political purposes.
I will, of course, be modded down by those who are addicted to their fear, but that, too, is inevitable.
So you believe that masks don't work? Being pointless for any medical purpose would seem to indicate that you think they are worthless -
Explain.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
>"So you believe that masks don't work? Being pointless for any medical purpose would seem to indicate that you think they are worthless"
I can't answer for him, but he didn't say masks don't work, he said "mask mandates [...] are utterly pointless" and that is not an unreasonable assessment. The masses wearing cloth and [low-grade] paper-masks that might greatly help with droplet infections are very ineffective against COVID-19, which is air-borne. That requires N95-type masks that are real, properly
Masks work for two reasons (Score:4, Insightful)
What makes masks work is that cove it is many times more deadly if you also have the flu while you have covid. And that rather unpleasant combination is surprisingly common. By wearing masks which absolutely do prevent the spread of flu we basically shut down the flu virus entirely in the last two years. In the process we saved tens of thousands of lives and helped prevent our healthcare system from collapsing.
And you only cost was that people whose sense of freedom was so fragile that putting on a piece of cloth destroyed it made fools of themselves in public for a few years. Seems like a fair deal to me
Re: Masks work for two reasons (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
>"If non-N95 ones are not effective, use N95?"
1) Much more expensive (comparatively)
2) Lots of fakes
3) Hard to find
4) Much more restrictive for breathing
5) Not effective if not fitted and worn properly, which requires specialized training
They have their place, but probably not for "mass use."
Re: (Score:2)
Just recently I happen to ca
Re: (Score:2)
Those doctors are not wearing homemade cloth masks nor are the wearing them under their noses. They're using proper, medical grade masks replaced rather than re-used and properly fitted. There's a huge difference.
Re: (Score:2)
I didn't say the measures work. I said they don't work any more. You can't live with a mask on 100% of the time, and the virus is now everywhere.
That is how pandemics work. You can slow it down, but you can't stop it. Eventually, everyeone will be exposed to it. Hopefully, after they're vaccinated, or at least after effective treatments exist. But you will be exposed to it eventually.
Try to read for comprehension.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: This is how (Score:3)
Re:This is how (Score:5, Informative)
I will, of course, be modded down by those who are addicted to their fear, but that, too, is inevitable.
No, you'll be modded down for being stupid when you say masks don't work. If masks don't work, why is it the incontrovertible evidence they do work [missouriindependent.com] was suppressed for political purposes?
Also, when people talk about "fear", why is it the first thing gun folks say is they own a gun to protect themselves? From what? Obviously they live their lives in fear if they believe they need a gun to protect themselves 24/7.
Re: (Score:2)
No, you'll be modded down for being stupid when you say masks don't work.
Being wrong or stupid is not a valid reason for a down mod. Moderators should read the FAQ prior to moderating.
If masks don't work, why is it the incontrovertible evidence they do work was suppressed for political purposes?
The only incontrovertible evidence is correlation is not causation.
This chart is raw data with no attempt to examine or account for confounding variables including prior infections. There were substantially higher infection rates in the mask mandated areas PRIOR to period covered by chart. Likewise no adjustments for vaccination rates, population, actual mask wearing, other county specific NPI/p
Re: (Score:2)
Is that why Smallpox went away thousands of years back or was there repeated pandemics until about 100% of the population was vaccinated.
And of course Polio was only a problem for a short while as well, by the 20th century there was no need for a vaccine and those stories of regular pandemics were bullshit.
All viruses are different, some are stable, some are easy to defend against and some not so much.
Re: (Score:2)
Yep, we wiped out the flu through vaccination, not.
Never any worries about the measles when vaccination rates get much below 95%, not.
No one gets TB anymore, not
Some viruses are fairly stable and some mutate into new variants. Being vaccinated against last years flu doesn't help with this years flu much and being vaccinated against the original version of Covid doesn't help as much against new variants.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I think you need dual shrimp parity if that's your conclusion.
Re: (Score:2)
A properly sealed N95 is not a different mask. It's just user error.
A mask mandate that isn't followed doesn't do much - no surprise there.
Until everyone is eligible for a shot, the responsibility falls on society as a whole. We STILL don't have that yet. But yeah, the flu shot adapts better year to year than the COVID shot. I don't know why flu shots can be approved so quickly with new versions every year. It takes less than a month to develop a new mRNA shot.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know why flu shots can be approved so quickly with new versions every year. It takes less than a month to develop a new mRNA shot.
Flu shots aren't quick. They take 6 months to mass produce, which means you're deciding on the formulation up to 9 months in advance. You just take an educated guess at which flu strains you think will be dominant and tweak the vaccine to match. It's significantly better than doing nothing, but it's pretty far from ideal.
A new mRNA shot can be developed in a few days, but it takes 3 months to produce one batch. An Omicron specific vaccine was developed immediately, but the Omicron wave peaked about a month
Re: Time drop the stupid COVID virtue signaling (Score:2)
"A new mRNA shot can be developed in a few days, but it takes 3 months to produce one batch."
I'm sorry, but do pharmaceutical developers not include testing as part of development? If your code is still compiling, it's still in development...
Re:Time drop the stupid COVID virtue signaling (Score:5, Interesting)
Now that we have definitive proof that the mask mandates and the vaccine did nothing to reduce the rates of COVID, can we please just drop all the stupid COVID virtue signaling? Your crappy "N95" mask isn't going to protect you against an airborn virus. In order to get any real protection, you'd need a properly sealed N95 mask, and no one is getting those.
Not sure why. Genuine 3M N95 masks are under a buck in bulk from Amazon, IIRC. And properly sealed? Well, that's just shaving your facial hair, squeezing the nose properly, and replacing the mask before the straps get too loose.
If masks did anything, you'd expect to see rising cases after the FAA mask mandate was dropped, and - whoops, no surge in cases.
Actually, there may have been a surge in cases. You're just overestimating how big the surge would be because you lack a proper understanding of math.
About two million people were on planes on any given day over the past week (+/ 200k). Eight days ago, when the mandate was blocked by a judge, there were 38,526 cases per day (7-day average). Assuming an average contagiousness period of five days, this means there were about 192,630 contagious people in the U.S. on that day, out of 329.5 million total people in the U.S.
If you assume (very cynically) that absolutely nobody who gets sick cancels their trip as a result, then the probability of an airline passenger being sick should be about the same as the percentage of the general population. Multiplying 192,630 / 329.5 million * 2 million, we can then estimate that there were likely no more than about 1,169 contagious airline passengers on any given day of flying over the last week. (And again, the real number is probably less than that, because it is much easier to delay a trip because of illness now than it used to be.)
The median incubation period for omicron is about three days or so. If you assume a typical rate of spread — five or six extra sick people from each sick person, then that would mean only about 3 extra cases from that first day would be caused within three days (because half of those cases will take longer to show up than the median incubation period). There would be a few extra cases showing up at the two-day mark, and approximately zero at the one-day mark.
Multiply that out, and you would expect maybe 3,000–4,000 extra cases nationwide by four days ago. Four days ago, there were 46,371, which is an increase of about 8,000 extra cases, which is considerably larger than the number of extra cases predicted by my math above. So removing the mandate may very well have caused a measurable increase in cases.
While the vaccines were great against the original COVID virus, we seem to have entirely eradicate the original version, and the virus just mutated, so now the vaccine does nothing to protect you against the new variants, as this article proves.
Only two-thirds of Americans have gotten even two vaccine doses. So you can account for a third of Americans getting COVID before you even start to consider people who have been vaccinated. And a lot of people got vaccinated *after* they got infected with COVID, so there is overlap in that direction as well.
The vaccine provides short-term protection against infection the new variants, and fairly long-term protection against death or serious illness from the new variants. Is it enough to eradicate the virus? Not with a vaccine that is two-and-a-half years removed from the circulating strain. But that doesn't mean it isn't useful. And if you think it is, once again, it proves that you don't understand statistics.
It's time to make mask and vaccine requirements illegal and get back to the our pre-pandemic lives. I'm sick and tired of all the people virtue signaling with their worthless masks and pointless vaccine requirements. It's past time to get our lives back.
I'm sick and tired of all t
Re: (Score:2)
The vaccine provides short-term protection against infection the new variants, and fairly long-term protection against death or serious illness from the new variants. Is it enough to eradicate the virus? Not with a vaccine that is two-and-a-half years removed from the circulating strain. But that doesn't mean it isn't useful. And if you think it is, once again, it proves that you don't understand statistics.
And of course, I meant "if you think it does." Way to flip the meaning. :-D
Re: (Score:2)
One of the findings of this study was that 75% of kids and teens have had it. Most didn't know.
The time for panic and extreme measures has passed.
Re: Time drop the stupid COVID virtue signaling (Score:2)
Sorry, but that approach ignores the proper use of an N95 mask.
The only legitimate masking policy is a mask pickup when you enter the room, and a mask trash receptacle for when you exit. Bring Your Own Mask is not scientifically sound policy.
Re: (Score:3)
> Get your lives back ? When were they taken away ?
You mean other than things like not being able to visit grandma for a year, when she has so very few years left? And heck I know I'm one of the luckier ones, if you look at Hong Kong, they're literally starving during lockdowns.
Nursing home, I assume? Yeah, that sucked. On the flip side, imagine how much worse you'd feel if everybody in the nursing home died because one person came in while contagious before they could vaccinate anybody.
There's no good solution to that problem other than finding ways to provide better in-home care so that more families will have the ability to take care of their loved ones at home, rather than putting them all in high-density communal living facilities.
Maybe covid zero could work if the entire world did it, but you guys never want to count any other cost than covid deaths so you optimize aggressively in one direction ignoring all else. But instead we have only partisans who hardly care about truth, so people end up wearing crappy cloth masks which are just about the worst of both worlds instead of properly-fitted N95s or worse just going on an anti-mask/anti-vax rant.
Even cloth masks reduce transmission consid
Re: (Score:2)
avoid alcohol
But how will I sanitise my hands?!
Re: (Score:3)
"
This position is unsupported by evidence or history.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volum... [cdc.gov]
Your linked study is pre-Omicron and therefore outdated wrt immunity to Omicron, as they say themselves if you actually read it.
Prior infection will give you some protection, but vaccination is still recommended and will reduce the severity of a future infection, as well as the risk of transmission to more vulnerable family members.
Re: (Score:2)
Current vaccines have even less fitness against omicron than delta.
That's right. You need a higher antibody level for protection against Omicron, which means getting boosted.
"fitness"? You mean efficacy? Against what, infection or serious illness?
I'll wait patiently for evidence supporting premise vaccination after infection offers any useful health benefits.
Why wait? What are you scared of?
I guess it depends on your age and other factors. If you have already had omicron, or recent delta, there is probably not much point getting a booster right now.
But immunity wanes. I expect it will become like flu, with annual shots. More frequent for obese or over-50s etc.
It is a shame that a
Re: (Score:2)
I'll wait patiently for evidence supporting premise vaccination after infection offers any useful health benefits.
Here you go!: Effectiveness of COVID-19 mRNA Vaccination in Preventing COVID-19–Associated Hospitalization Among Adults with Previous SARS-CoV-2 Infection — United States, June 2021–February 2022 [cdc.gov]
"Among persons with previous infection, COVID-19 mRNA vaccination provided protection against subsequent COVID-19–associated hospitalization. Estimated vaccine effectiveness against reinfection leading to hospitalization during the Omicron-predominant period was approximately 35% after dose
You immunize children to prevent the spread (Score:5, Informative)
You vaccinate the kids so that Grandma and Grandpa don't die
Re: (Score:2)
I personally know at least one, potentially two, people who caught covid from a child and died from it. The second one I don't know well enough to be sure if it came from a child of the first one definitely got it taken care of a sick kid.
You vaccinate the kids so that Grandma and Grandpa don't die
With respect to everyone involved, the world is a lot more complicated than that, mainly because this is airborne, so you could catch it blowing around just about anywhere, and secondly, because the immune system isn't completely naive, rather, it can do a lot better or worse. In the UK, early on, the first 14 of 15 docs who died (forgive me, the stat is from memory) were all darker skinned, which immediately suggested to some other docs that vitamin D status is a likely factor. Now Slashdot isn't a scienti
They absolutely are (Score:4, Informative)
People are lying to you. You need to take a good, hard look at your media sources.
Re:You immunize children to prevent the spread (Score:5, Interesting)
personally know at least one, potentially two, people who caught covid from a child and died from it. The second one I don't know well enough to be sure if it came from a child of the first one definitely got it taken care of a sick kid.
You vaccinate the kids so that Grandma and Grandpa don't die
Unfortunately the vaccines are not providing meaningful protection against infection. Neither is it reasonable for anyone to expect to hide from covid exposure forever.
The data isn't definitive, but initial viral load does seem to matter for how sick you get [dralexpolyakov.com.au]. Basically, if you get a small exposure (from a vaccinated person) your body will have lots of time to mount an immune response. If you have a heavy exposure (usually an unvaccinated person) the virus gets a big head start before your immune system catches up.
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately the vaccines are not providing meaningful protection against infection. Neither is it reasonable for anyone to expect to hide from covid exposure forever.
You could always try drinking your own piss.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/b... [forbes.com]
Vaccines aren't prefect (Score:2)
If the kid is vaxxed and only mildly ill for a day or two, non-contagious after a week and back to school in 10 days then grandma/grandpa don't need to be called in while they're conta
Re: (Score:2)
"When Evidence Says No, but Doctors Say Yes"
Oh dear. Are you seriously trying to compare coronary stents to vaccination?!!
Re: (Score:2)
Oh dear. Are you seriously trying to compare coronary stents to vaccination?!!
The issue isn't specific things it's underlying pressures to act contrary to the best interests of the individual. There is an epidemic of unnecessary procedures in the US to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.
Re: (Score:2)
True. But vaccination is cheap, proven and safe. So why the fake comparison?
Re: (Score:2)
The air on modern passenger aircraft is the cleanest and safest one can get outside of a surgical operating theater. Yet we had Democrats tell us we had to wear masks.
A study in New Zealand showed how, despite the fact the passengers on a lightly-loaded long-distance flight wore masks, several passengers came down with Covid-19. https://www.newsroom.co.nz/how... [newsroom.co.nz]