Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Science

Materials Scientists Make Pizza Dough -- Without the Yeast (science.org) 94

Posted by BeauHD from the giving-rise-to-decent-gluten-free-pizza dept.
sciencehabit shares a report from Science.org: When he was 25, materials scientist Ernesto Di Maio developed a yeast allergy and broke out in hives whenever he ate pizza, which was somewhat embarrassing for a son of Naples, Italy. "My wife loves pizza, and this sometimes creates tension on the night menu," he says. Now, Di Maio can look forward to carefree dinners, for he and his colleagues have invented a yeast-free method of leavening pizza dough.

In a classically prepared pizza, as with most bread, yeast ferments and releases carbon dioxide to give the dough a foamlike consistency. Baking then drives off the water and locks in the airy texture. Di Maio's team at the University of Naples Federico II (UNINA) thought it might be able to produce the same effect in a different way: by infusing the dough with gas at high pressure and releasing the pressure during baking, adapting a method they'd developed to manufacture polyurethane. "The aim was to try to make the same texture that we love so much in pizza without a chemical agent," says co-author and UNINA materials scientist Rossana Pasquino. [...] The end result: "We tried it, and it was nice and crusty and soft," Di Maio says. Alessio Cappelli, a food technologist at the University of Florence, says the paper is "interesting," but he wonders whether the method will be widely used in practice, given that baker's yeast is so cheap and easy. "It looks like an innovation just for the sake of it," he says.

The study has been published in the journal Physics of Fluids.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Materials Scientists Make Pizza Dough -- Without the Yeast More

Materials Scientists Make Pizza Dough -- Without the Yeast

Comments Filter:

  • [Wall of text] (Score:3)

    by suss ( 158993 ) on Thursday March 24, 2022 @05:07AM (#62385541)

    Couldn't they just have made sodabread pizza instead, if yeast was the problem?

    • Couldn't they just have made sodabread pizza instead, if yeast was the problem?

      From TFA: "Migoya notes that baking powder or baking soda can also be used to create rise without commercial yeast, in combination with an acid like buttermilk or lemon juice, but is not a 1:1 substitution for yeast."

    • There are many ways to Rome, but quite a few lead to Naples as well =)

    • Re:[Wall of text] (Score:5, Informative)

      by WierdUncle ( 6807634 ) on Thursday March 24, 2022 @05:45AM (#62385591)

      Exactly what I thought, but sodabread has nothing like the texture of yeast risen bread. An interesting cooking chemistry problem is why it makes a difference how the CO2 is generated. In sodabread, it is based on sodium bicarbonate, which reacts with acids to produce CO2. But it is still the same gas as produced by yeast fermenting sugars. So why does sodabread tend to end up like cake?

      I have done a bit of bread making in the past, including sourdough. The kneading and proving and knocking back are all needed in order to get the right texture. I also used my sourdough to make pizzas. The trick appears to be to draw out the bread proteins to form a foam structure, and for some reason, this does not happen with sodabread.

      I have also read up on the Chorleywood bread process. Here, the rising agent is steam rather than CO2. It permits a far faster process time, suitable for mass production. Personally, I am not fond of the results, but I have not died from sliced bread yet. I think one problem is that the dough has insufficient time to mature, and can be less digestible as a result.

      I have read that some kinds of indigestion result from the presence of complex sugars, that fail to be digested and absorbed, and end up in the large intestine, where gut bacteria have a nosh. This results in the production of methane and other gasses. This also tends to happen with under-cooked pulses. I think you can guess the result.

      • Thanks, this is why I still come here, for the - sadly rather rare - interesting posts

      • I have done a bit of bread making in the past, including sourdough. The kneading and proving and knocking back are all needed in order to get the right texture. I also used my sourdough to make pizzas. The trick appears to be to draw out the bread proteins to form a foam structure, and for some reason, this does not happen with sodabread.

        I thought this as well, but "no knead" bread is very impressive and gets you results that are almost indistinguishable from traditionally kneaded breads. I used to knead my pizza doughs (and pita doughs) for close to 10 minutes. I now do absolutely zero kneading.

        https://www.kingarthurbaking.c... [kingarthurbaking.com]

        Basically you just mix the ingredients together, including a smaller than normal amount of yeast, give it a rise, and then let it cold ferment for days. The best pizza dough I ever made was from this method. Roughly

        • Right, and the fermenting process which is the bacteria eating the flour and changing it is what makes the resulting bread digestible compared to plain flour.

          Similarly people with digestive issues over milk can usually process yoghurt fine.

        • ... give it a rise, and then let it cold ferment for days.

          I think the cold ferment for days might be the key point. What I found with keeping dough in the fridge for days is that it lost strength. I used to bake bread rolls at work, from the end of my sourdough batch. It was difficult to get a good shape, but the results were definitely edible. I may not have followed the right procedure with getting the dough up to room temperature and allowing a bit of a fermentation, before shaping and baking.

      • why does sodabread tend to end up like cake?

        That's easy: Because the yeast doesn't produce CO2 from nowhere, it chows down on components in the flour and changes the texture and taste.

        • Well said. This is particularly true of sourdough. The lacto bacteria break down starches, which releases sugars that are digested by the yeast. I think what happens with "proper" bread is that the starches are partially digested, before the dough goes in the oven. It is a kind of slow cooking.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Basically this is leavened bread. Bread can be leavened in multiple ways - biological (e.g., yeast), chemical (baking powder/soda - there's a difference), mechanical, or other (like using steam).

        The fact that there are so many and each seems to be used in different ways means we haven't quite figured it out yet. But there are differences, likely in the production and the chemistry.

        After all. yeast takes in sugar and produces carbon dioxide (and alcohol) - so while the alcohol mostly boils off in the baking

        • I think what might be lacking in the mechanical injection of gas to produce a bread dough is the relaxation of the flour/water mixture before cooking. I used to make chapatis, which are flat unleavened bread, common in India. When I read the recipes, an essential stage is to rest the dough for a few hours. The rising mechanism is steam.

          When I went to university in Bradford, there were numerous Indian restaurants, and the chapatis were of excellent quality. My recipe books said you should aim for a quality a

          • chapati was a stodgy wodge of dough

            I recognise this stodgy wodge, and it is very likely it is "roti"* or "tandoori roti" to be precise, one other kind of "bread" used in India, not chapati. Chapati, by definition, is much thinner, and the art is to heat its two sides in such a fashion that two layers separate out in the final stages of the process, and it becomes a ball full of steam and air when it is taken off the heat source.

            * Yes, the word roti has similar origins to the French rÃti.

            • I think that is a fair description. The Birmingham flat bread was tandoori roti, not chapati. As far as I know, the dough is still just wheat flour and water, but the difference is in the preparation. When I used to make chapatis, the thing is to get a ball full of steam as you put it. This needs serious heat, and unfortunately, involves quite a bit of smoke, which is not compatible with the smoke alarm in my flat. At university in Bradford, my fellow students would put the roti directly on a red hot electr

  • Still probably better than Chicago pizza...
    • And me without mod points...

    • Still probably better than Chicago pizza...

      Aint dat da truf! Pizza is supposed to be just enough crust to hold the goodies. And if you can't fold it in half, ya might as well be eating a loaf of bread covered with Ketchup, Cheeze-Whiz, and sliced hot dogs.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ebh ( 116526 )

        Did we eat in the same grade school cafeteria?

      • No idea WTF all you folks are on about. We visit Chicago often, have family there. We eat Pizza every time we visit. I have never had deep dish in Chicago. Nobody I know who lives in Chicago eats deep dish. Chicago thin crust, when done properly so the dough isn't floppy like NY style, is awesome.

        • No idea WTF all you folks are on about. We visit Chicago often, have family there. We eat Pizza every time we visit. I have never had deep dish in Chicago. Nobody I know who lives in Chicago eats deep dish. Chicago thin crust, when done properly so the dough isn't floppy like NY style, is awesome.

          We have to apologize for not knowing what you and your family like to eat.

          • No need to apologize, just don't assume you know what Chicago Pizza is, since your post would imply you don't.

      • You might as well be eating a loaf of bread covered with Ketchup, Cheeze-Whiz, and sliced hot dogs.

        Oh, I'm trying that recipe tonight!

        Future post from tomorrow: Worst. Pizza. Ever.

        • You might as well be eating a loaf of bread covered with Ketchup, Cheeze-Whiz, and sliced hot dogs.

          Oh, I'm trying that recipe tonight!

          Future post from tomorrow: Worst. Pizza. Ever.

          It made me queasy thinking up that abomination. Please be careful!

    • Visited the Sears tower, back when it was still called that. Went to this place right next to it.. https://giordanos.com/ [giordanos.com] Their deep dish was unlike any other pizza I ever had. So good.
      • You mean the pizza casserole?
    • I've had pizza in NYC, Chicago, Seattle, Sacile (Italy), Buffalo, Boston, San Jose, and many other places less noteworthy. And you know what: they're all good. So you keep railing on which one is "best," and deprive yourself because a certain slice doesn't meet your "standards." I'm just gonna enjoy pizza. Cheers!

    • I'm sure you all have heard this before but Chicago deep-dish pizza isn't pizza, it's a poorly named casserole. Midwesterners turn everything into casserole. And are unable to call a spade a spade. (yet few people even know what a spade is, and other people don't consider it distinct from a shovel, and the phrase itself is a mistranslation [wiktionary.org]. That problematic idiom parallels Chicago deep-dish surprisingly well)

      Detroit pizza is pretty standard (American-style) pizza. So the midwest can do this right, when they

  • Inevitable destination? (Score:4, Funny)

    by mrthoughtful ( 466814 ) on Thursday March 24, 2022 @05:39AM (#62385585) Journal
    After decades of research a science team, exploiting the intersection of semantics, physics, and the complex plane, have developed a pizza that is completely free from meat, cheese, gluten, yeast, vegetables, sodium, sugar and calories. When asked what their quattro stagioni was like - Dr. Giuseppe Ricci, a son of Rome, told us "It is just amazing- whatever you like it's no problem at all - this process generates a pizza just as you imagine it - and tastes exactly as you wish". When asked for photos Dr. Ricci said "Just use your imagination. That is what it is!".
  • From Wikipedia - Aerated Bread Company [wikipedia.org]:

    Having been thoroughly unimpressed by the Scottish bread of the day, he [Dr. John Dauglish] began to make his own, and to study the science associated with the process. When he applied his earlier studies in chemistry to the process of bread making, he determined that it would be possible to produce carbonic acid gas in bread without yeast. He established that if one could instead introduce carbon dioxide to the process—by dissolving it into solution in the wat

    • 1862

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

      And look where we are now, bread made by the god-awful Chorleywood process, ruining bread to save a few pennies. You typically have a choice either Chorleywood rubbish or nice bread crammed with salt.

      • And look where we are now, bread made by the god-awful Chorleywood process, ruining bread to save a few pennies. You typically have a choice either Chorleywood rubbish or nice bread crammed with salt.

        Considering Scotland also created hagis and golf, what did yo expect?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Chrisq ( 894406 )
          The problem is that we English and Scots like the type of bread made with high gluten/protein wheat, but that has to be imported from warmer climates, primarily Southern Europe and the USA. The Irish are quite happy with the softer and denser bread that comes from locally grown wheat. (I haven't mentioned the Welsh as I don't know what type of bread they like).

          The Chorleywood process and the aerated bread process before give a very rough approximation to this type of firm light bread, but of course not ne

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by HiThere ( 15173 )

            That's not sufficient explanation for the salt. It's quite possible to make extremely low salt bread that's quite good. (I was lazy, and used a bread machine.) You need to tinker with the recipe a little. (OTOH, I like a whole wheat bread with things like celery added...so a bread machine was the right approach.)

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Rhipf ( 525263 )

              How long does your low sodium bread last on the shelf?
              I would generally agree with you though that there is way too much salt in most commercial baked goods. I use very little when I make similar items myself but then I only need them to last a couple of days before they are totally consumed. Most commercial baked goods need to have at least a week shelf life before they even enter a consumers home.*

              *To be fair I am talking about mass produced commercial baked goods. Baked goods make in your local market ca

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by HiThere ( 15173 )

                Salt isn't generally the preservative used in baked goods. They use too much, but not enough to act as a preservative. Their "reason" is to control rising, at least that's what the recipes generally say. But the recipes are wrong. (OTOH, I haven't experimented with pure white flour breads. Perhaps for those they are correct.)
                My real suspicion, however, is that they use extra salt, because it's slightly "addictive". (The quotes are because I don't think it's the same mechanism that is usually called ad

    • From Wikipedia - Aerated Bread Company [wikipedia.org]:

      Having been thoroughly unimpressed by the Scottish bread of the day, he [Dr. John Dauglish] began to make his own, and to study the science associated with the process.

      In other news: They used to knead bread with their feet and add copper sulfate to neutralize the sour taste of moldy flour.

  • That should have been 1862 !
  • I can't help but think about how this is bread that has risen, but is still unleavened. Jews could have pizza during Passover. That's kinda neat.

    • You think "neat", I think profitable. Charge them through the nose for their magical religious pizza.

    • Interesting thought. But it depends on how the rabbis interpret "leavening." One definition is:

      a substance used in dough or batter to make it rise, such as yeast or baking powder.

      https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]

      By this definition, any chemical that makes dough rise would be "leavening."

    • Re:Not "just for the sake of it"... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Errol backfiring ( 1280012 ) on Thursday March 24, 2022 @08:00AM (#62385835) Journal
      Apart from that, the scientist clearly had a problem (an allergy to yeast), and used science to overcome it. How is that "for the sake of it"?

    • I don't think the requirement to eat unleavened is some abstract requirement to be worked around like a food allergy for most practicing Jews during Passover.

      https://www.mashed.com/363416/... [mashed.com] "First, as the Passover story begins, theJews are slaves in ancient Egypt, and a significant part of their diet is a simple, unleavened flatbread made from grain and water. Accordingly, unleavened bread, or matzo, symbolizes "poverty and slavery." Specifically, it is introduced as the "bread of affliction" eaten by the

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by c ( 8461 )

      The process also takes about 10 minutes, which seems like it might be something industrial pizza manufacturers would be interested in compared to yeast rise times.

    • I can't help but think about how this is bread that has risen, but is still unleavened. Jews could have pizza during Passover. That's kinda neat.

      Only if it meets the requirement that it's finished baking less than 18 minutes after the flour and water are first mixed.

      And probably most Jews already have pizza on matzah during Passover. It's decent on the industrial crackers, but it's quite good on real matzah (which is more like pita).

      • Yeah, I've had it that way, but it's just not the same.

        Didn't know about the time limit, thanks!

  • Alessio Cappelli, a food technologist at the University of Florence, says the paper is "interesting," but he wonders whether the method will be widely used in practice, given that baker's yeast is so cheap and easy. "It looks like an innovation just for the sake of it," he says.

    Except they missed the whole point that this project started due to a yeast allergy.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mattr ( 78516 )

      Seriously, that Cappelli guy is a jerk! And the sodium bicarbonate thing sounds like it would leave a lot of sodium.. yes there is already salt in pizza dough but why add more. And whoever makes a low sugar + low salt pizza will make millions.

      • Seriously, that Cappelli guy is a jerk! And the sodium bicarbonate thing sounds like it would leave a lot of sodium.. yes there is already salt in pizza dough but why add more. And whoever makes a low sugar + low salt pizza will make millions.

        It will be popular with people whose sense of taste is gone from C***d

    • Alessio Cappelli, a food technologist at the University of Florence, says the paper is "interesting," but he wonders whether the method will be widely used in practice, given that baker's yeast is so cheap and easy. "It looks like an innovation just for the sake of it," he says.

      Except they missed the whole point that this project started due to a yeast allergy.

      The Italian portion of my culture/heritage notes that taste and texture is thing number 1. And unless they have some magick synthetic flavoring to reproduce the flavor of yeast, this stuff is going to taste like almost nothing, just something in your mouth taking up space with perhaps some salt flavor.

      The flavor the yeast imparts to the crust is every bit as important as the toppings.

  • Here's the real reason why such "inventions" exist: Megacorporation producing polyurethane pays scientists to develop new method or improve an existing one for production. Scientists' mouths are sealed by NDAs, invention gets protected by patents, the real tiny secrets behind it are under lock and key. But professors and PhDs need to get published, so they make minor adjustments to said method for making pizza dough instead of polyurethane and write a paper in Physics of Fluids. Everyone's happy, including

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gtall ( 79522 )

      The scientists in this case did it because he liked pizza but is allergic to yeast. The rest of your screed, taking into account your reading comprehension, can be shitcanned on the grounds there's a good chance you cannot reason your way out of a paper bag.

      • The title of my post: the *real* motivation behind such studies. You, on the other hand, can keep swallowing everything you read, hook, line and sinker.

      • The scientists in this case did it because he liked pizza but is allergic to yeast. The rest of your screed, taking into account your reading comprehension, can be shitcanned on the grounds there's a good chance you cannot reason your way out of a paper bag.

        I think our poster is using what we call "stupid cynicism", to somehow put forth the idea that this will be a money making proposition by da man. Eliminate a really cheap and useful material - yeast - l that not only causes the bread to rise, but imparts a distinct flavor that a lot of bread/pizza lovers want. Exchange that for an industrial process to get a product that will need a lot of adjunct ingredients to not taste like eating raw flour mixed with salt? No thanks. Besides, some folks might be allergi

  • I've often thought this method would also work for making Gluten Free bread.
    Glad to hear it works.

    • I've often thought this method would also work for making Gluten Free bread. Glad to hear it works.

      No thank you, gluten free is heavy like a brick and it’s better that way. Get it tasting like regular bread and you’re going to freak the shit out of celiacs. Probably going to induce mini panic attacks as they oscillate between thinking it’s pretty damn good and maybe this means going to the emergency ward again. It’s the unpalatable and heavy, crumbly, coarse texture that let’s you know it’s safe to eat.

  • We can't have yeast growing all over our spaceships.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rhipf ( 525263 )

      I would hazard to guess that yeast is already "growing all over our spaceships". It is almost impossible to stop yeast from hitching a ride with the astronauts.

  • This process might be good for long space trips or settlements on Mars due to the uncertain viability of yeast on other planets. It would be sad to send a pizza oven and stacks of wood all the way to Mars only to discover you had bad dough.
    Experiments with yeast on the ISS give hope that the new process won't be necessary. It's a big deal because we also need our little buddy for making space beer.

  • If we don't want yeast in the pizza dough for what reason ever, we normally use a dough from flour, white cheese (quarg), vegetable oil, milk and eggs.

    • Using a Flammkuchen dough works just as well.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rhipf ( 525263 )

      Does that dough have the same texture as a "normal" pizza dough? I would hazard to guess that it doesn't and is more of a flatbread than a pizza crust. There are countless other options if you just want something flat to toss pizza toppings on but if you want to replicate the traditional pizza crust without yeast (similar taste and texture) your options are a lot more limited.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Sique ( 173459 )
        Depends on what you think of as "normal" pizza dough. U.S. American pizza is quite different from the pizza I am used of in Germany or Austria.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Rhipf ( 525263 )

          Since they are trying to emulate a yeast dough the "normal" pizza dough would also need to be a leavened dough rather than a flatbread style dough.* That was the main reason that I didn't want to just say normal pizza dough and went with "normal" pizza dough. 8^)

          *Basically any leavened dough as apposed to an unleavened dough such as you described.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Sique ( 173459 )
            The dough is actually leavened, but with lactobacillus instead of yeast.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Rhipf ( 525263 )

              Ok, good to know. I always thought the Lactobacillus just added flavour components and didn't actually aid in leavening the bread.

  • 100 percent plant-based pizza ingredients cooked with 100 percent renewable energy and delivered in a 100 percent biodegradeable container?

    One or more of those ideas seems feasible.

  • My understanding is that this process would only give the dough texture but not break it down like actual yeast would.

    Leavening is not only about giving the dough texture: the process breaks down the dough and makes the result easier to digest. Pizza is supposed to be leavened slowly for quite a long time (12 to 24 hours) so that the dough goes through this process properly.

    It's one of the reason "fast leavened" pizzas are not considered as good.

  • Asking for a friend.

  • Aerated Bread Company Ltd in 1862 in London UK see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

  • It doesn't seem to use dairy, which I believe is the prohibition.

  • "Pizza Stream"

  • Carbonated pizza: one small step for a man, a giant leap for mankind. Pepperoni and Dr. Pepper in one bite - a match made in heaven.

    -- Dr. Pepper marketing team

  • You can make pizza dough, with flour, salt, oil and sparkling water. The sparkling water releases the CO2 when heated and the dough rises.
  • My guess is that subgroup of vegans who won't eat avocados and certain other pollenated foods because the bees who pollenate them are "slaves" will become very interested in this as it will enable them to enjoy pizza without having to use "slave yeasts". I'm not kidding about this. Wait for it to happen.

    • Not just slaves, mass murder.

      Don't tell them about their microbiome tho.

      I don't know who needs a prebaked frozen pizza tho. This technique is suitable for factories. Maybe school cafeterias where they still cook?

  • people with yeast allergies can't drink beer or eat bread... this could fix at least half of that problem. Still a niche market, but you get the idea.

  • Or use a fresh cheese based dough.

  • Seeing as it actually solves a real-life problem, this is more than simple "innovation just for the sake of it".

Slashdot Top Deals

In the long run, every program becomes rococco, and then rubble. -- Alan Perlis

Close