Teens Are Struggling To Quit Smoking and Vaping (theverge.com) 164
More adolescents failed to quit smoking in 2020 than in any of the previous 13 years, according to new data published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. 2020 was the first year the research team had data on attempts to quit e-cigarettes, and it showed that around 4 percent of adolescents unsuccessfully attempted to quit e-cigarettes. From a report: E-cigarettes have been pushed to adult smokers as an alternative to traditional, combustible cigarettes -- some evidence shows they might be less dangerous, and there's mixed evidence that they could push adults to quit smoking altogether. But the picture might be different for teens, who started vaping in droves in 2018 and are far less likely to be cigarette smokers first. The new analysis shows that for younger people, the introduction of e-cigarettes made quitting more difficult.
The new study includes data from the Monitoring the Future study, which surveys eighth, 10th, and 12th grade students. It includes a question asking the participants if they had ever tried to stop smoking and found that they could not. In 2020, it added a question asking if they'd ever tried to stop vaping nicotine and found that they could not. From 1997 to 2019, the survey found that the number of students who reported using cigarettes and the percent of adolescents estimated to have tried and failed to quit smoking both dropped.
The new study includes data from the Monitoring the Future study, which surveys eighth, 10th, and 12th grade students. It includes a question asking the participants if they had ever tried to stop smoking and found that they could not. In 2020, it added a question asking if they'd ever tried to stop vaping nicotine and found that they could not. From 1997 to 2019, the survey found that the number of students who reported using cigarettes and the percent of adolescents estimated to have tried and failed to quit smoking both dropped.
Take it from them (Score:2)
"We don’t smoke that shit. We just sell it. We reserve the right to smoke for the young, the poor, the black, and stupid."
-RJ Reynolds Executive as told by Dave Goerlitz, "Winston Man" Ad model
Re: (Score:3)
It would be interesting to see what proportion of executives at Philip Morris, etc, smoke as compared to the general population. I assume that they are very aware of the health issues; although they could be just as stupid as the typical smoker.
Re: (Score:2)
It would be interesting to see what proportion of executives at Philip Morris, etc, smoke as compared to the general population. I assume that they are very aware of the health issues; although they could be just as stupid as the typical smoker.
I watched a documentary years ago where they were interviewing tobacco bailers in Virginia. The interviewer asked this guy if he smoked and he laughed out loud and said, "Do you know what this stuff does to you? No one here smokes that I know."
Re: (Score:2)
I watched a documentary years ago where they were interviewing tobacco bailers in Virginia. The interviewer asked this guy if he smoked and he laughed out loud and said, "Do you know what this stuff does to you? No one here smokes that I know."
Depending on what safety gear they used and precautions they took, those bailers may already have been addicted to nicotine. According to this source [cdc.gov] "Occupational handling of tobacco leaves may result in green tobacco sickness caused by dermal absorption of nicotine". I'm not sure, but I imagine that regular transdermal absorption of smaller amounts would result in addiction.
Re: (Score:2)
I knew 5-6 people that worked for them in the 70's through the 90's, and they smoked heavily at the time. They were down to 2/day when they hit 75 or so, but plenty of damage.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And yet, as we've seen with covid and drug use, people ignore the facts because they know more than the experts. Always have, always will.
Re: (Score:2)
No shit (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I must admit that I carry in me some kind of curiosity to know what it is actually like to try to quit smoking. — A part of me want to become addicted to it, simply to see how hard it is to stop. But this is probably a very bad idea.
Re: (Score:2)
The science behind why it's so difficult to quit smoking is crystal clear: Nicotine is addictive – reportedly as addictive as cocaine or heroin. https://www.heart.org/en/news/... [heart.org]
And just like alcohol addition and drug addiction, the craving NEVER goes away. You have to decide to stay smoke free every time you smell cigarette smoke. Not the bad smell you get when a smoker walks past, but the smell of a burning cigarette actively burning. For years, you subconsciously reach for a cigarette after ever
Re: (Score:2)
The major problem these things have is they put way more nicotine into it than what is in regular tobacco.
The government needs to put a limit on nicotine content.
I wish I had Vaped than Smoked, When I was Young (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
My anecdotal experience is that Europeans took longer to get to a serious realization that smoking is bad than Americans did.
Roughly 30 years ago I was working as part of a large (several dozen people) American research group in the Arctic - pretty much no one smoked in our group. At one point we had a get-together with a similarly-sized European group of researchers who were working 30km or so away from our camp. We walked into their dining hut... and I swear you could've cut the air in there with a knife,
Re: (Score:2)
My non-anecdotal source says that you are right in that smoking is more common in Europe than in the U.S.A.
https://ourworldindata.org/exports/daily-smoking-prevalence-bounds_v13_850x600.svg
Re: (Score:2)
I am pretty sure that if I had got onto vaping, I would not have ended up in hospital with throat cancer. I got nicotine patches while I was in hospital, which seemed to do the trick. I had a couple of attempts at getting myself off the patches after I left hospital. My radiotherapy consultant advised me to keep up with the patches, until I had completed my treatment. There were withdrawal side effects, which combined with the radiation effects in a nasty way.
One of the side effect of nicotine withdrawal ap
Less unhealthy (Score:3)
Believing it to be less unhealthy means less pressure on yourself to quit, so they fail more often.
Re: (Score:2)
Except that addiction isn't quite so simple. Addiction is about changes to the amygdala, septum, and thalamus. Nicotine also screws with the dopamine system. Peer pressure has an impact, sure, but overriding the neurological impact of addiction goes well beyond anything involved here.
To complicate things further, nicotine actually boosts the prefrontal cortex and hippocampus, acting as a mood stabiliser and boosting fine motor functions, attention, working memory, and episodic memory. In consequence, those
Re: (Score:2)
This doesn't explain why vaping is harder to quit then smoking.
Re: (Score:2)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]
"Twenty-four vapers and 23 smokers participated to the study. They were asked to obtain 10 puffs in 5minutes and then use the EC ad lib for 60 more minutes (total duration of use: 65minutes). An 18mg/mL nicotine-containing liquid was used. Blood samples were obtained at baseline, 5-minutes and every 15minutes thereafter, while number of puffs and average puff duration were recorded. Although at baseline both groups had similar plasma nicotine levels, smokers consistently exh
Re: (Score:2)
I'm still waiting for an analysis that actually shows vaping to be harder to quit. Based on what I can see (since I don't have an account to read the actual paper), they compared the percentage of all teens that tried and failed to quit smoking to the percent of all teens that tried and failed to quit vaping.
The latter was higher, but that isn't controlled for the percentage of all teens that smoked or vaped in the first place. For all we know based on those figures, 2 percent of teens tried smoking, tried
Re: (Score:2)
incorrect wording in article... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Hey it's a free market, but I am also free to think these companies are SCUM.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Note that most studies of the addictive nature of nicotine are actually studies of the addictive nature of nicotine plus the MAO inhibitors in cigarettes that potentiate addiction.
Re: (Score:2)
> Everyone generally agrees making money off other people's addiction is basic Scum mentality. SCUM.
People who don't understand basic economic think this, but most economists consider those people to supplying things that people want, the same way people want potatoes (have you tried to quit eating?).
If you prohibit things then you turn people from being 'slaves' of their addictions into *slaves* of criminal organisations.
Prohibition leads to worse results than the problems with the commodities prohibite
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Problem is 100 years old (Score:2)
Cigarette companies used propaganda and industrial marketing to get young women to start smoking by calling them Torches of Freedom [youtu.be] (Century of Self documentary)
To quit is hard even harder when you don't want to (Score:3)
For me it was Copenhagen. I started in the army and enjoyed it immensely. I've got a fondness for bitter flavors and I really liked the taste of Copenhagen. I quit whenever someone I was dating asked me to but I always went back. After 20 years of it I finally got tired of it and I was surprised at how easy it was to put it down for good. That was around 16 years ago. Never give it a thought now.
it's a mystery! (Score:4, Funny)
It's almost like it's addictive or something?
As a vaper... (Score:2, Flamebait)
and knowing full well that nicotine is addictive and that the long-term effects of vaping are still hard to fully visualize, I find it abhorrent that vaping and smoking are still put together in these propaganda-style anti-everything articles.
Vaping got me to quit smoking, in so much better ways than cold turkey, or any other doctor-sanctioned method that gets my entire mind and system fucked up ever did, and I'm way better for it.
It's like the MRNA vaccine: we know it works, we all accept it against the mu
Re:As a vader... (Score:2)
As I said at the time: 'Drug delivery device' (Score:3)
Humans, why do you continue to be so fucking stupid about some things? The only thing you should be intentionally inhaling into your lungs is fresh, clean air, not tobacco smoke, and not this chemical shit.
Don't even start with 'muh freedom of choice' or a perversion of 'my body my choice', either, you can't use those to defend something this fucking stupid.
How about we tackle obesity instead? (Score:2)
Don't even start with 'muh freedom of choice' or a perversion of 'my body my choice', either, you can't use those to defend something this fucking stupid.
Meanwhile we have an horrible obesity epidemic in this country that is killing far more people then vaping.
Eating yourself to death is far more stupid only being fat is now so previlent that I'm sure plenty of people don't even feel the social pressures they should to take control of their lives.
If you wanted to ban something in the name of saving idiot's lives fast food should be the very first thing that comes to mind. This is not something I'm advocating for with this post however, I'm just pointing out
How about we fix one thing first. (Score:2)
-Too many cooks.
Re: (Score:2)
All I'm saying is if you're going to take away people's freedom of choice you should start with the real major problems. Vaping is not creating a health crisis in this country, being fat is.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Nicotine acts as an appetite suppressant like some other stimulants so I would imagine vaping would do the same as smoking.
Re: (Score:2)
Don't even start with 'muh freedom of choice' or a perversion of 'my body my choice', either, you can't use those to defend something this fucking stupid.
Meanwhile we have an horrible obesity epidemic in this country that is killing far more people then vaping.
Eating yourself to death is far more stupid only being fat is now so previlent that I'm sure plenty of people don't even feel the social pressures they should to take control of their lives.
If you wanted to ban something in the name of saving idiot's lives fast food should be the very first thing that comes to mind. This is not something I'm advocating for with this post however, I'm just pointing out that even our children are fat as fuck now and that we have a far bigger health crisis than vaping in this country.
Sorry, no. You don't need to vape to survive, but you do need to eat. Not everyone can afford quality, healthy food. Yes, I know you technically can subsist on lettuce and cabbage, but anything that's healthy AND doesn't taste like green cardboard is much more expensive than junk, processed food. Getting into vaping on the other hand is pure moronism, plain and simple, no excuses.
That's a myth (Score:2)
Not everyone can afford quality, healthy food.
You're perpetuating a myth. I can make a variety of very healthy and tastes meals for half the price or less of your average fast food meal and at one point in my life that was my life style as I was pretty money poor and I straight up couldnt afford fast food. I ate very healthy though, you just have to know how to shop and cook.
Again though, I'm not advocating for shutting down fast food, I'm just saying it would make infinitely more sense then banning vaping as it does have its place as alternative to sm
Re: (Score:2)
Not everyone can afford quality, healthy food.
You're perpetuating a myth. I can make a variety of very healthy and tastes meals for half the price or less of your average fast food meal and at one point in my life that was my life style as I was pretty money poor and I straight up couldnt afford fast food. I ate very healthy though, you just have to know how to shop and cook.
Again though, I'm not advocating for shutting down fast food, I'm just saying it would make infinitely more sense then banning vaping as it does have its place as alternative to smoking for people who can't quit.
What's fast food? McDonalds? KJC? Subway? What about people who can eat there 1/2 times a week and still be very healthy? Everyone needs to eat, and the line of what's unacceptably unhealthy is very difficult to draw.
Vaping/smoking however isn't a necessity of life, and there aren't really any "healthy" uses. You can't really ban smoking because of historical and cultural factors, but vaping? There was no need to allow that.
Re: (Score:2)
Please, your attempt to make things look vague are ridiculous. A caloric or saturated fat limit could easily be applied to food served at restaurants.
Meanwhile while vaping isn't necessary (neither are high calorie, high fat meals) it is a healthier alternative for those who can't quit smoking. In other words it actually solves a problem for a lot of people.
Vaping is not at all causing a public health crisis in this country, this is just some bullshit think of the children nonsense. Meanwhile obesity is act
Re: (Score:2)
Vaping/smoking however isn't a necessity of life, and there aren't really any "healthy" uses. You can't really ban smoking because of historical and cultural factors, but vaping? There was no need to allow that.
There is a healthy use. Quitting smoking the real stuff.
Re: (Score:2)
Not everyone can afford quality, healthy food.
You're perpetuating a myth. I can make a variety of very healthy and tastes meals for half the price or less of your average fast food meal and at one point in my life that was my life style as I was pretty money poor and I straight up couldnt afford fast food. I ate very healthy though, you just have to know how to shop and cook.
Again though, I'm not advocating for shutting down fast food, I'm just saying it would make infinitely more sense then banning vaping as it does have its place as alternative to smoking for people who can't quit.
Take the "afford" from my post to mean both "money-" and "time-wise" and the point still stands. Also, note I don't mean fast-food as in outlets, yes, that's somewhat more expensive, I mean the cheap, processed food that you can buy in supermarket. Your hyper-tasty cookies full of trans fats, corn flakes that send your insulin into the sky, cold cuts made of meat ground up with foot-long ingredient list, that kind of stuff.
Re: (Score:2)
Meanwhile we have an horrible obesity epidemic in this country that is killing far more people then vaping.
A problem that objectively is being worked on far more so than the problem of vaping.
I always like when people make a whataboutism comment that actually reinforce the other person's point.
Re: (Score:2)
You're duping a response some one already made. Here's my response.
"All I'm saying is if you're going to take away people's freedom of choice you should start with the real major problems. Vaping is not creating a health crisis in this country, being fat is."
Re: (Score:2)
> Don't even start with 'muh freedom of choice' or a perversion of 'my body my choice', either, you can't use those to defend something this fucking stupid.
Yeah! People should have to join gangs and kill each other if they want to do things that you don't approve of.
Only bikies, thieves, murderers and sex offenders should be allowed to use drugs of their own choice.
Prohibition has stopped people using every other drug in existence without ever causing any harm to anyone or society at all. Why wouldn't it
Re: (Score:2)
Humans, why do you continue to be so fucking stupid about some things?
I have a rational theory about drug taking. Sometimes life is shit. Why make it even worse by being miserable about it? So people take drugs to cheer them up. It has to be said that tobacco products are one of the worst recreational drugs ever discovered. Highly addictive, with loads of cancer-causing gubbins, smells terrible, and after all that, you don't actually get high.
Re: (Score:2)
It's all pretty straightforward when you look at it that way.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm comfortable with you doing any activity that doesn't:
a) unreasonably impact the health or safety of others. For example, driving attentively with a seatbelt on is a reasonable risk. Driving without a seatbelt, or playing on your cell phone, is an unreasonable risk.
b) unreasonably costs others money. For example, if you get cancer because cancer happens, society should bear the cost of your medical expenses. If you get cancer because you've been smoking three packs a day, society should not bear thos
Re: As I said at the time: 'Drug delivery device' (Score:2)
On the list of stupid activities that are unhealthy or risky and aren't going away, vaping isn't even going to make the top ten.
I have no interest in it, but geez, find another hill to die on. You sound like you're going to stroke out over other people smoking and that would be silly.
Re: (Score:2)
Can you tell me a secret how to find clean air in the city? Do you know what kind of air you're inhaling and how dangerously toxic it is even though you're clearly a non-smoker?
Re: (Score:2)
Should never have been allowed by the FDA in the first place, and should be removed from the market now.
God I hope you are not American. What the FUCK kind of stance is that? You think you can tell me what the fuck to do because you have decided it is good or bad for me? Fuck off with that shit. Go start your own fucking country.
Re: (Score:2)
Ban cigarettes (Score:2)
Subsidize the Tobacco farmers to grow something other than a poison. Nicotine can be synthesized for vapers.
Teens (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I see you don't have children.
I don't understand how it's even legal. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's not legal. They use the black market, online, etc. It only takes a few shady operators in the neighborhood, fake ID, etc. Same way they get weed.
Re: (Score:2)
Glad I could clear that up for you...
Safer does not mean safe (Score:2)
Vaping avoids some of the risks of traditional smoking. You don't have "tar" or as many additives in the delivery mechanism. Vaping has less effect on people around the person (is second hand vaping even considered a thing?). Vaping still carries risk. As mentioned in other comments, nicotine levels are mostly unregulated in the US, so initiates aren't aware of their drug consumption. Vapes come in kid-friendly flavors (like bubble gum), but nicotine and other drugs have a bigger effect on teens than adults
Re: (Score:2)
Vaping still carries risk.
You theoretically get rid of the damage to your respiration, but you still have an addiction problem. The drug is altering your behaviour, and not in a good way. I am not saying that nicotine addiction makes people wicked, as a drug effect, but what about the sheer waste of money? Are there any economists out there who can show any benefits to society as a whole by having a large proportion of the citizens addicted to an expensive drug with no known therapeutic benefits? I am not interested in funding the t
Really? (Score:2)
In pandemic 2020, when we were all sitting on the couch drinking, smoking weed all day long people had no reason to quit?
Who would have thought?
Best thing I ever did. (Score:2)
Best thing I ever did was give smoking. The second best was give up drinking alcohol.
These highly addictive, toxic substances are a scourge on society.
Re: (Score:2)
With all of this *waves hand* of course it's hard! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Why do teens do this? (Score:4, Interesting)
Because that has work soooo well for drugs.
But it did. Sort of.
I missed Woodstock by a decade or so (too young to go). By the time I was into music (rock and roll and other) in high school and college we had lost a number of amazing performers to drugs (Hendrix, Joplin, etc.). And the intellectuals of the music world were already poking fun at the stoners (Zappa). So most of my peers steered clear of drugs. And drugs went from something that "those long-haired hippy freak musicians" did to something more easily found on the football or basketball teams (the good, All American boys).
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
so the opioid epidemic is fake news... got it. It obviously did not work otherwise we wouldnt be in the situation we are. It doesnt matter how they got addicted, doctor prescription or otherwise, we ALL have had the lectures about how this shit works. Its OUR responsibility to avoid the pitfalls. Cant blame the doctors for the entire situation, only for making it accessible. Nobody forced you to pop extra pills when you did not need them. Or told you not to try more conventional ones when its sufficient. Tylenol+Motrin actually works better than the low dose vicodin for pain, but people prefer vicodin. They even nickname it alcohol boosters.
Sure doctors didn't force people to take pills, but when a doctor recommends something to get better, a lot of people listen. And given the doctors had reasons to stretch the truth or out right lie:
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/n... [harvard.edu]
https://www.statnews.com/2019/... [statnews.com]
Re: Why do teens do this? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
With my wife recovering from knee replacement next to me, I can say with conviction that there is a time and place for strong pain medicine. From her experience, I can also say that getting the dosage right is hard even within a hospital setting. When you are trying to do it from home/remotely, it is almost impossible.
People have to want to taper off the drugs in order to stop, and most importantly to manage the use when they need it.
Re: (Score:2)
As far as I know, Frank Zappa was vehemently opposed to drug taking in his band. Automatic sacking. Dear Frank was just naturally weird.
Re: (Score:2)
Not sure where in the US you grew up, but there was NO shortage of drugs back when I was in High School.
Same at my high school. But not everyone used them.
Most everyone smoked pot...and drank.
That's the echo chamber of peer pressure talking. The 'cool' kids got high. The people who knew they were going into some highly intellectual career after school (music, math, science) did not. I knew I was going into engineering and I was going to need my brain in more or less good working order.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It works for the smart ones.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly.
Re: (Score:2)
Well if their parents smoke or vape, then they will be more likely to do that as well, as it is just a normal thing to do. Eating Cake is bad for you, but we grow up where it is normal to have Cake from time to time, so we will have Cake knowing it is bad for you, but still accepting it.
Then peer pressure is bigger than one might think, and how the 1980's and 1990's Anti-Drug nonsense just made it worse, because they created the people using the drugs or smoking seem like they are evil vial people, where t
Re: (Score:2)
Cake is perfectly harmless in moderation and can even be good for you. At least, if it's a proper, traditional, cake. Not so sure about supermarket models. There is no known safe level of nicotine and there's certainly no level where it's beneficial.
Re: Why do teens do this? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Kinda, sorta. It has a very bad name since it's associated with smoking, but purely nicotine is being studied more at the moment as an appetite suppressor and an anti depressant.
Re: (Score:2)
That depends on the person. Nicotine does help with a few psychiatric conditions. It seems it may help delay dementia.
SMOKING certainly has a big downside, nicotine without smoking is a lot less clear how big the downside is. Most of the studies that say they studied nicotine actually studied smoking and included the effects of the tar, carbon monoxide, MAO inhibitors (which enhance the addictive properties of nicotine), and the particulates.
Interestingly, a little over 10 years ago, nicotine was found to
Re: (Score:2)
Nicotine is about as harmless as caffeine, which is to say a little bit. It has the benefit of treating schizophrenia, because one of the metabolites is Nicotinic Acid (Vitamin B3 / Niacin).
It's the delivery method and what comes along with it that causes harm.
Re: (Score:2)
It has limited cognitive benefits (I posted the link elsewhere, where it states precisely what the benefits are) but caffeine is superior as well as not being addictive.
(Addiction is indicative of severe impairment to multiple parts of the brain. Caffeine withdrawal gives headaches due to a change in brain function but it is a wholly different mechanism. Addiction is specifically to do with the reward system.)
Caffeine in tea has the added benefit of being combined with sedatives.
So, no, nicotine is far more
Re: (Score:2)
I wouldn't say no. It could be both/and. There have been plenty of studies regarding Vitamin B supplementation and schizophrenia also (though it's possible that EB has links to B vitamins as well). Epstein-Barr has been linked with so many things these past few years it's starting to get annoying. Long COVID, Multiple Sclerosis, Lupus, Type 1 Diabetes... And COVID has a vaccine, while EB doesn't. Part of that might be because it wasn't known to be linked to all that. Much like HPV wasn't always linked
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Cake is perfectly harmless in moderation and can even be good for you. At least, if it's a proper, traditional, cake. Not so sure about supermarket models.
I've found cake on black and hispanic models to be definitely superior to (mostly-white) supermarket models.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Why do teens do this? (Score:2)
For me it was even less. It was my uncle who smoked a lot. I didn't even see him that often, but he always reeked of cigarette smoke, which made me never want to touch the things.
Re: Why do teens do this? (Score:2)
In many nations it was regulated as a smoking cessation product. Nicotine levels were published. Regulation controlled flavors and minimum age from the very first day.
In the United States it could be sold outside those regulations when first introduced. Anyone could buy them including young kids. Nicotine levels were unregulated in most states and for some brands a single vape session was more addictive than a full pack of cigarettes. As far as nicotine went many kids started vaping at equivalent to 4 or m
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The forms change all the time, but the substance of it has been around for far longer. Excellently parodied in "The Life of Brian" when the crowd said in unison "We ARE individuals" and then the one guy said "I'm not".
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
him getting the living shit beat out of him. Wouldn't it be great, every night you can turn on your TV
How I love the hypocrisy of the radical right. The party of Jesus is love and family values indeed.
The propagation of a crap Subject (Score:3)
'Nuff said.