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Scott Kelly Returns His 'For Merit In Space Exploration' Medal To Russia (twitter.com) 135

Posted by msmash from the tussle-continues dept.
McGruber writes: Retired NASA Astronaut Scott Kelly just announced that he was returning a medal awarded to him by Russia. A translation of his announcement, which Mr Kelly made in Russian:

Mr. Medvedev, I am returning to you the Russian medal "For Merit in Space Exploration", which you presented to me. Please give it to a Russian mother whose son died in this unjust war. I will mail the medal to the Russian embassy in Washington. Good luck.


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Scott Kelly Returns His 'For Merit In Space Exploration' Medal To Russia More

Scott Kelly Returns His 'For Merit In Space Exploration' Medal To Russia

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  • History is not Present (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2022 @04:14PM (#62341407)

    It really bothers me that more and more, there is no distinction between past and present, that all sins of the moment just go bank endlessly through time now (and vice versa, sins from 50 years ago are treated as of the moment even if they were not sins at the time).

    Another example is a symphony somewhere I read about canceling a Tchaikovsky symphony. I assure you that Tchaikovsky was I no way involved with invading Ukraine, in part because he is long deceased.

    That medal was given in a different time, by different people - why are you spitting all over their intent, when if they were around today they would be just as much against the invasion?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mmell ( 832646 )
      Not unlike people here in the US dumping Vodka down the sewer because it's Russian! Even if they only dump the stuff that was actually made in Russia, it doesn't matter. It's already been paid for, the money has already changed hands. Now, if it looked to me like the Russians might somehow get it back, then I'd use it to clean my toilet.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by laxguy ( 1179231 )

      people are incredibly stupid.

    • To make a point. Perhaps that point may be that if those other people were around today they would be against the invasion but allowing their country to fall under the control of such a ruthless despot greatly tarnishes their achievements of the past.

      • allowing their country to fall under the control of such a ruthless despot greatly tarnishes their achievements of the past.

        But that is exactly what I am saying is wrong. How is it fair to tarnish anyone from the past, when being daed they could have in no way shaped the present?

        Even those in modern times, I cannot in any way cast shade on the actual average person living in Russia - because they have no control over choosing Putin, or what Putin does. I am not comfortable tarnishing every single person i

    • At first glance you're totally right. He got it in a different time and different light. On the other hand, getting the Russian ambassador to pass it on with the reference to war, which is forbidden with regards to the invasion in the Ukraine, is a really clever move.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Tom ( 822 )

        getting the Russian ambassador to pass it on with the reference to war

        Yeah, like that's going to happen.

        • Spoilsports! It was totally going to happen, changing the mind of the mother of the dead soldier, creating a domino effect leading to persistent peace. But your lack of faith just jinxed it!

      • Yeah, because the ambassador isn't going to just drop it in the bin and forget about it. That would never happen.

        • Yeah, because the ambassador isn't going to just drop it in the bin and forget about it. That would never happen.

          Check eBay if you're looking for a slightly used medal...

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by st33ld13hl ( 1238388 )
      What do you mean "given in a different time, by different people"?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
      " It was established by presidential decree 1099 of September 7, 2010"
      This was the same people...just 12 years ago. Putin is not new.

      • This was the same people...just 12 years ago. Putin is not new.

        Putin was around then, but do you think it was Putin that decided to give him the medal? Of course not.

        The people for and running this war in Russia are not the same ones that gave him this medal.

        In fact if you think about it he basically directly gave the government a little more funds they can use to continue the war.

        I appreciate the sentiment behind the gesture, but I feel like the symbolism is muddled at best and really does not make sense;

        • Putin was around then, but do you think it was Putin that decided to give him the medal? Of course not.

          Correct. Putin did not give Kelly the medal. That was Dmitry Medvedev, then president of Russia.

          The people for and running this war in Russia are not the same ones that gave him this medal.

          False. Dmitry Medvedev is now the deputy chairman of the Security Council of Russia [wikipedia.org]. You can be assured he is intimately involved in this invasion.

          Also, if you'll note the wiki, Medvedev was prime minister when Russia f

    • That medal was given in a different time, by different people - why are you spitting all over their intent, when if they were around today they would be just as much against the invasion?

      Perhaps because, that's quite an assumption?

      • I really don't think it is. I was an avid space exploration enthusiast as a child, and the friendly cooperation between our space program and the Soviet space program was one of the rare bright spots in a relationship that otherwise involved fears of a bleak future. In contrast, the *Russian* space program seems like a bunch of ginormous assholes. (Perhaps bitter because they know that even moreso than NASA, they were about to be made irrelevant by private space ventures with or without this war?)

        • I really don't think it is. I was an avid space exploration enthusiast as a child, and the friendly cooperation between our space program and the Soviet space program was one of the rare bright spots in a relationship that otherwise involved fears of a bleak future. In contrast, the *Russian* space program seems like a bunch of ginormous assholes.

          A bunch of ginormous assholes, taking orders.

          Try not to gleam over an obvious dictatorship. Not everyone in Russia is an "enemy" simply because Russia. Some are ordered to be.

    • Agreed. Besides, Putin will probably just Photoshop himself on his horse, both in spacesuits, and then give the medal to himself. (And, of course, he will be bare-chested inside the spacesuit.)

    • It really bothers me that more and more, there is no distinction between past and present, that all sins of the moment just go bank endlessly through time now (and vice versa, sins from 50 years ago are treated as of the moment even if they were not sins at the time).

      Sounds like the Middle East ...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Jzanu ( 668651 )
      This does not change history, it simply voids the concept of any honor being attached to the Russian state and any of its baubles. Get that your honorary clasp is worthless now, its not even worth the scrap value of an iron cross because nobody will buy it in the name of financing your shitty war (not even Chinese banks [wsj.com] or the AIIB [globalcons...review.com]). Throw it away and move away from the Russian influence.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by narcc ( 412956 )

      if they were around today they would be just as much against the invasion?

      It was 12 years ago. WTF is wrong with you?

    • That medal was given in a different time, by different people - why are you spitting all over their intent, when if they were around today they would be just as much against the invasion?

      Different people, really? Do you know who's been in charge of Russia for over 20 years now?

      • Do you know who's been in charge of Russia for over 20 years now?

        Do you know who gave him the medal?

        Or are you saying the people I'm charge of the Russian space program are running the war in Ukraine? Because that is what you are saying.

        • Do you know who gave him the medal?

          It's in the summary. The medal was presented to him by Dmitry Medvedev, at the time the president of Russia, currently the deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council.

    • Re:History is not Present (Score:4, Informative)

      by hey! ( 33014 ) on Wednesday March 09, 2022 @05:02PM (#62341581) Homepage Journal

      Well, Kelly's *acceptance* of the award was in the past too; that can't be undone, if that's any comfort to you.

      Honor in an award is a two way street. There is a long, long tradition going back to the middle ages of one side either revoking or repudiating an honor when it feels the other is no longer worthy. Rabindranath Tagore renounced his British knighthood in 1919 in response to the Jallianwala Bagh massacre. In 1388 Parliament stripped all honours from Robert de Vere including membership in the Order of the Garter.

      So repudiating an honor a thing, and not a new one.

      • So repudiating an honor a thing, and not a new one.

        I have the same issue with past instances of this gesture if it helps any. "But we've always done it this way" is not a great defense in my book.

        Although to some degree it depends on who gave the award. In this case Putin did not give the award, the space agency died - by returning the medal you are implying they support the invasion. I can see in other instances where you are giving back an award more directly to someone who gave it to you in the first p

      • Well, Kelly's *acceptance* of the award was in the past too; that can't be undone, if that's any comfort to you.

        Oh sure it can. He just did. Or did you think that sending it back with a well-worded "fuck you" is somehow not rescinding that acceptance?

      • Sure. But instead of something purely symbolic like this; he'd probably have done more good auctioning the medal off to a collector, using the proceeds to buy weapons to give to Ukraine, and publicly announcing that action. You get all the positive symbolism as with sending it back to putin, but also do a good turn as well.

    • It's all play pretend so that people can get attention for themselves.

      And reasonable people who don't get attention for themselves we don't notice, because they didn't get attention on our attention-based social media.

    • As a form of protest, the goal is to draw attention to the issue of concern and encourage others to join and support your cause. While the best forms of protest also advance your cause (such as planting a tree in a conspicuous place vs. burning old tires to protest the use of fossil fuels), you can protest with any means you have available - sometimes it might mean standing in front of a tank, other times it might mean symbolically returning an award you didn't really want in the first place.

      • I actually have a Soviet medal. Hmm, it's for Young Pioneers, so it's not really a medal and just a badge But maybe I should turn it in to someone? I'll probably keep it so it can be worn on Halloween when I dress up like a sleeper agent.

    • History IS present when history repeats itself. It's 1956 and Hungary all over again.

      Part of forgiving another is the promise the other makes not to do it again. When they do it again, it erases the original repentance. And that makes sense. You can't say "I'm sorry I punched you yesterday. Let me give you this token of friendship..." and expect that if you punch me again tomorrow I am going to look on that token of friendship with any sort of fondness.

      Whether or not it is more than a token or click ba

    • That medal was given in a different time, by different people - why are you spitting all over their intent, when if they were around today they would be just as much against the invasion?

      That medal was given by FORMER RUSSIAN PRESIDENT MEDVEDEV, who is noted as a Putin puppet, and was only there to allow Putin yet another term.

      HE IS AROUND TODAY and he is NOT against the invasion, because he is one of Putins lackeys.

      YOU STUPID PIECE OF SHIT.

    • That medal was given in a different time, by different people - why are you spitting all over their intent, when if they were around today they would be just as much against the invasion?

      Hm, maybe the symphony was conducted by a person who supported the invasion? There was this Deutsche Welle story (too lazy to search for it ATM) about a Russian conductor, described as being close to the current Russian regime, who had his concert cancelled. That still might not be justified (maybe the conductor is simply keeping his head down for the usual Soviet reasons), but is more understandable than cancelling Russian culture because it was written or produced by a Russian.

      Returning the medal I think

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Lips ( 26363 )
      Imagine how pissed you'd be if he was returning your medal to the Russians. But as the as the title says, he is returning "his" medal.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      Tchaikovsky was a dude who wrote music, who happened to be Russian. Cancelling a symphony because he wrote it is silly.

      A medal is given *by a country*. This one was given by Russia. If Epstein gave you a white panel van, even if it was before anyone knew what he was, you might not want to keep it.

    • Literally no one is conflating past and present. These are people sending a message in any way they can, and that message is: it is toxic to be associated with Russia.

      The point is to show that we don't celebrate anything Russian. Tchaikovsky may not have anything to do with Ukraine, but his music is a symbol of Russian cultural arts and it is entirely appropriate not to promote it right now in concert, as it is for someone to show that they disagree with Russia so much they don't want a medal that was given

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      It really bothers me that more and more, there is no distinction between past and present, that all sins of the moment just go bank endlessly through time now (and vice versa, sins from 50 years ago are treated as of the moment even if they were not sins at the time).

      Another example is a symphony somewhere I read about canceling a Tchaikovsky symphony. I assure you that Tchaikovsky was I no way involved with invading Ukraine, in part because he is long deceased.

      That medal was given in a different time, by d

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • That medal was given in a different time, by different people - why are you spitting all over their intent, when if they were around today they would be just as much against the invasion?

      If they are likely to be just as much against it. They would most likely fully support his actions.
      Any sane person knows it's directed at Putin and not the people who awarded the medal.

    • Generally the Russian people are only getting Putin Propaganda(TM). Apparently a lot of Russians are of the opinion that there's nothing really going on in UA. This is simply another way to get the message through. Similar to (foolishly) dumping out a bottle of vodka, it's simply echoing the message "Putin has invaded Ukraine".

    • Welcome to the woke cancel culture, which seems to have hate as its primary objective. Hate gets attention in the online world. Find something to be offended about, anything, no matter how distant or unrelated, but to people who lack critical thinking and pay no attention to logic and/or details it makes sense, to fuel rage, resentment, and hate. People love to hate. Hate sells. There is good money to be made (and/or to get your 10 minutes of fame) from hate in today's times.

      Moves like this one, returnin
    • Komrade, we have always been at war with Eastasia.

  • Dumb virtue signalling (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Viol8 ( 599362 )

    Russia should be punished hard for what it's doing to Ukraine but pathetic gestures like this do nothing except make the person doing them feel good about themselves. Here in the UK some halfwit dockers turned away tankers of russian LPG and oil that had already been paid for. So now the russians can sell it again and Putin gets more war chest money while itll make UK fuel prices go up that little bit more. Nice going morons.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tom ( 822 )

      We're in a "good vs. evil" narrative now, and while it is a pathetic gesture, it isn't aimed at Russia at all - this signaling is for other Americans and the purpose is to show that he's definitely on "our" side.

      Lots of stuff is going on right now. Everyone needs to assure those around them that they're on the same/good/our/etc side. It's a stupid monkey brain impulse.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by mmell ( 832646 )
      I've got to admit, I see your point. Giving the Russians back anything is a mistake at this point. Period.

      When we start selling them stuff, we need to make sure they get gouged deep - and we need to keep it that way until they pay reparations for what's going on now. I don't care if gouging them makes it harder to pay their bills. They have a nice country; be a shame if something bad were to happen to it.

      • I've got to admit, I see your point. Giving the Russians back anything is a mistake at this point. Period.

        You do realize he didn't return anything of value. He gave back an honor which he no longer accepts. Its not like the Russians can actually do anything with it.

        When we start selling them stuff, we need to make sure they get gouged deep - and we need to keep it that way until they pay reparations for what's going on now. I don't care if gouging them makes it harder to pay their bills. They have a nice country; be a shame if something bad were to happen to it.

        Why would we sell anything to the Russians right now. Our goal is to starve their economy so they have to stop waging this war.

    • My already low opinion of him just crashed.

      What a clown.

    • This is someone who spent years working directly with Russian people cooperatively, even learning to speak Russian. This is not a completely empty statement and as a statement it does a good job separating the Russian people from the Russian government, which we need more of.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jvkjvk ( 102057 )

        >This is not a completely empty statement and as a statement it does a good job separating the Russian people from the Russian government, which we need more of.

        You know what we also need more of? The Russian people separating themselves from the government. That is the only way Putin is going to pull out. That is what the sanctions are trying to achieve.

    • It was always symbolic; it meant something for him at the time but now it likely does not give him anything positive except throwing it back in their face.

      The gesture made the news, which is the whole point of it; otherwise, he could have just thrown it in a storage box with all the other awards he never needed or likely cared much about. Russia didn't ever care. I guarantee the GOP would have used it against him in some way if he didn't. They'd do so while being hypocritical, making shooting jokes about hi

    • Please explain what direct actions Scott Kelly should take to oppose the war. Maybe donating money to UNICEF to support refugees, but otherwise...what exactly should he do instead?

  • Tell him to put it where the sun don't shine.

  • Can we stop the virtue signaling already!? This empty gesture does nothing more than demonstrate to the world the USA's general lack of character. How about we do something about Biden setting the stage for this war with his self-dealing in Ukraine?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mmell ( 832646 )
      s/Biden/Trump

      FTFY

      • I must have missed the reports of Trump's son taking a no-show board gig for a Ukrainian energy company. I also missed the reports of Trump threatening to withhold a $1B loan guarantee from Ukraine if they did not fire a prosecutor investing that same Ukrainian energy company. I did see those exact reports of Biden's actions. How does it feel being part of the 30% hypnotized in the mass psychosis, mmell?

  • This is "virtue signalling".

    • This is far better to BUY media attention than embarrassing the nation on social media. He can use the minute of time it buys him to try to do something...

      Yes, naturally all politicians are ALWAYS running for something. If you don't put out some signal, the other side will define you and they have no trouble blatantly lying.

      Try being the super employee, hiding from your coworkers and never blowing your own horn... Others will take credit for your work, spread rumors/gossip, shift blame, etc.

      Politics is ev

    • Just askin', is all.

    • It's very easy to justify not having a moral compass when you dismiss every act beyond pure avarice as "virtue signalling".

    • This is "virtue signalling".

      And? It's only virtue signalling in the literal sense of exclaiming moral character. If you are trying to use it in a derogatory sense then you're failing miserably since the person is a) declaring they don't want to be involved, and b) actually giving something up to cut the ties and doing an actual action, not just expressing opinion.

  • Here is the translation of his message:

    "Hi world, since everyone have jumped to the zealot wagon of cancel-Russia, well, what the heck, I jump in too. It doesn't matter that the medal was given after Russia took Crimea, I have high values to know the difference between back then and what happens today. Oh, and to put the people on my side, I will use keywords like 'son', 'death' and 'mother' so everybody knows I'm right."

    On 2014 Russia invaded Ukraine, that is, using today terminology, it went to war
  • Oh! it has the "NASA" word in it, that's it!

    Wait a minute... but if I keep reading, this has nothing to do with science but more likely with "Entertainment".

    That's the closest tag I found in Slashdot, unless there's one that resembles the "Facebook feeling Status"
  • Nothing happens by doing this except for self promotion.

    It's not the straw that will break Putin's resolve.

    It's not going to revive a dead Ukrainian.

    It's bullshit.

    • Yeah you're right, we should just do nothing but bitch about other people on the internet like true heros!

      What have you given up?

      Yeah thought so.

  • Giving back a medal? What a wuss. Wake me up when he is going through his local phone book, splashing yellow and blue paint on the front doors of people with Russian-sounding names.

  • I'd have had more respect if he said something like, "I hope Putin is found guilty of war crimes and allowed to rot in solitary confinement for decades until maggots eat his brain. Then, I will come and stand in line to grind my heel in the dust that was his body, and spit in the fragments of bone that was his skull."

  • Virtue, duly signaled, with this useless gesture. Congrats.
  • Not being sarcastic in the least. Props to him for this.

  • I'll be the first to admit that I don't know the first thing about Russian politics. But a quick few seconds spent on Wikipedia tells me:

    Dmitry Medvedev:
    - Chief of Staff of the Kremlin 2003-2005
    - First Deputy Prime Minister of Russia 2005-2008
    - President of Russia 2008-2012 (preceded and succeeded by Putin)
    - Prime minister of Russia 2012-2020 (appointed by Putin)
    - 2020 resigned along with the rest of the government to allow Putin to make sweeping constitutional changes
    - 2020 Putin appointed Medvedev

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