Covid-19 Infection Can Reactivate the Latent Retroviruses In Human DNA (phys.org) 194
He Who Has No Name writes: In a synopsis posted Monday, John Hewitt at Phys.org points out some fairly unsettling implications of an ugly trick by Covid-19 (more formally, SARS-CoV-2) -- it wakes up latent viruses that we are born with in our DNA. A quick version for those not familiar with virology: retroviruses are a subclass of viruses that leave copies of their RNA in the host cell's DNA as part of their replication process, the reverse of the way most viruses replicate (that's where the 'retro' part comes from). Latent, inactive sequences of retroviral DNA make up more than 1% of the human genome. We're literally born with them in our genes. Now back to Covid's latest trick.
From the article: "Transposable elements, or jumping genes, are now known to be responsible for many human diseases. Keeping them repressed by methylation, RNA binding, or the attentions of the innate immune system is a full-time jump for cells. Last week, we reviewed the activation of one particular kind of transposable element, the Line-1 retrotransposons, in an ever-expanding host of neurodegenerative conditions. Retrotransposons derive from human endogenous retrovirus (HERVs) but typically have lost their signature long terminal repeat sequences at the beginning and ends of their genes. On Tuesday, a real zinger was dropped onto the medRxiv preprint server that could potentially explain many of the commonly observed pathogenic features of SARS-CoV-2. The authors provide solid evidence that the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein activates the envelope (ENV) protein encoded by HERV-W in blood cells, which is in turn directly responsible for many pathological features of the disease."
While this is all analysis of preprint research, the evidence and implied results are very much in line with other long-term effects from Covid infection, especially neurocognitive symptoms, known to long haul Covid patients as "brain fog." Given that other research is showing long haul Covid cognitive symptoms are more accurately detected by the cognitive function test specifically used for HIV-Associated Neurocognitive Disorder (HAND) compared to standard function tests, the implication of retroviral elements to the puzzle of PACS (Post-Acute Covid Symptoms, the official term now in use for long haul Covid) is disturbing. The good news: only about 20-30% of people infected with Covid appear to be susceptible. This is, however, conspicuously in line with other data analysis showing that about 1 in 4 Covid victims has PACS / long-haul symptoms after the acute infection stage...
From the article: "Transposable elements, or jumping genes, are now known to be responsible for many human diseases. Keeping them repressed by methylation, RNA binding, or the attentions of the innate immune system is a full-time jump for cells. Last week, we reviewed the activation of one particular kind of transposable element, the Line-1 retrotransposons, in an ever-expanding host of neurodegenerative conditions. Retrotransposons derive from human endogenous retrovirus (HERVs) but typically have lost their signature long terminal repeat sequences at the beginning and ends of their genes. On Tuesday, a real zinger was dropped onto the medRxiv preprint server that could potentially explain many of the commonly observed pathogenic features of SARS-CoV-2. The authors provide solid evidence that the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein activates the envelope (ENV) protein encoded by HERV-W in blood cells, which is in turn directly responsible for many pathological features of the disease."
While this is all analysis of preprint research, the evidence and implied results are very much in line with other long-term effects from Covid infection, especially neurocognitive symptoms, known to long haul Covid patients as "brain fog." Given that other research is showing long haul Covid cognitive symptoms are more accurately detected by the cognitive function test specifically used for HIV-Associated Neurocognitive Disorder (HAND) compared to standard function tests, the implication of retroviral elements to the puzzle of PACS (Post-Acute Covid Symptoms, the official term now in use for long haul Covid) is disturbing. The good news: only about 20-30% of people infected with Covid appear to be susceptible. This is, however, conspicuously in line with other data analysis showing that about 1 in 4 Covid victims has PACS / long-haul symptoms after the acute infection stage...
HERV (Score:5, Informative)
If you just read that and wanted to know what HERV and the Env proteins are, check this out.
https://www.frontiersin.org/ar... [frontiersin.org]
When you get to the part about Mendelian Inheritance, this will help.
https://www.genome.gov/genetic... [genome.gov]
Enjoy.
--
I’m a Mandalorian. Weapons are part of my religion. — The Mandalorian
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Thanks, but I think I already got the most important take-away from this: COVID creates mutant X-Men with super powers.
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Meanwhile... (Score:5, Informative)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov] covid increases the odds of erectile dysfunction by 5-6x, consistent with extensive microvascular damage.
https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/... [osu.edu] 14% of hospitalized patients promptly developed diabetes due to damage to pancreatic beta cells
https://jamanetwork.com/journa... [jamanetwork.com] A study of 100 patients revealed ongoing myocarditis in 60% of them an average of more than 2 months after diagnosis, independent of any comorbidities or duration or severity of acute covid illness.
If we discover that this monstrosity steals less than 15 years off of the average victim's lifespan I will be surprised.
But remember, oMiCrOn iS MiLd, LeT 'Er RiP!
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If we discover that this monstrosity steals less than 15 years off of the average victim's lifespan I will be surprised.
But remember, oMiCrOn iS MiLd, LeT 'Er RiP!
Indeed. You really do not want to get this crap if there is any way to avoid it. And if not, you want to get it as late as possible and while being fully vaccinated.
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Given the popularity of a little blue pill (that's fallen out of patent protection a number of years ago) by one of the vaccine makers... you would think it would make an effective marketing strategy for vaccinations.
I mean, given the majority of the anti-vaxx are males, the fast-spreading nature of omicron, the fact you can get reinfected again with COVID, it seems like a good way to make sure Mr. Happy
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Damn, beat me to it; I'll see that and raise you the ultimate ED shot: it costs a grand or 2, peddled by Pharma Bro (he can still do sales, right?), and is really the same shot available everywhere else but for ED!
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov] covid increases the odds of erectile dysfunction by 5-6x, consistent with extensive microvascular damage./quote?
Why aren't we trumpeting this particular side effect as a way of getting more people to vaccinate? If there is still anyone like Stan Freberg in the advertising business, he could build a really good Super Bowl PSA around this one.
Re: Meanwhile... (Score:2)
People don't like change or surprises. Everyone thinks the world will collapse from AI or dystopian will form from censorship and a lack of privacy. Or best of yet, if it is a virus, guns will save you (I.e. zombie apocalypse).
This virus has radically shaped our future with impacts for generations to come. People would rather live in ignorance of that truth.
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This virus has radically shaped our future with impacts for generations to come. People would rather live in ignorance of that truth.
Indeed. A recent breakdown by an expert said that 20% are reachable by rational argument, 65% just copy what the others around them do without understanding and 15% are unreachable in any way. Fits in with with about 84% of the world population being religious (according to Wikipedia). People just do not want to face reality.
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Lol, "toxic spike protein" getting you down? Just go outside and do some gardening with hand tools. Maybe eat a fruit. You'll be fine.
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Na, he just wants the massive dose of the "natural" spike protein with all the nice side-effects (like impotence or death), instead of the tiny dose of the obviously toxic "artifcial" one.
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He recommended gardening with hand tools for chronic fatigue and long COVID so I guess maybe it would work on acute COVID too? I guess if you really, really like hand tools it might have some benefit for impotence.
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He recommended gardening with hand tools for chronic fatigue and long COVID so I guess maybe it would work on acute COVID too? I guess if you really, really like hand tools it might have some benefit for impotence.
Well, maybe he thinks that gardening extra hard helps if you have a bad COVID case. To be fair, if you dig a hole, say, 3 to 4 foot deep and 2.5 by 8 foot, that would likely indeed have a good use for somebody non-vaccinated with a bad COVID case.
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I am glad you can admit that most of these "derp I am getting my fifth jab so I have have more of this toxic spike protein in my system to protect me from the covid with its toxic spike protien derp derp dept" are just an unthinking mob.
Obviously, I "admitted" no such thing. You, on the other hand, just demonstrated that you are stupid and have no honor. Nice!
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if it is a virus, guns will save you (I.e. zombie apocalypse).
Great, now the brain fog zombies trying to infect the living will keep me awake tonight.
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Well, if the guns won't work, napalm most likely will.
Not unexpected. (Score:5, Insightful)
Any virus linked to cancer will rewaken the fossil viruses, indeed some of those fossil viruses are the actual mechanism by which many such virus infections cause cancer, so expect covid to greatly elevate cancer risks in the long term. (Fossil viruses getting activated is also part of the mechanism behind multiple sclerosis.)
This is news I've been expecting from day one. Virtually every article I've posted on, here or on The Guardian website, I've asked whether there were any reports of fossil viruses being activated, partly because it seemed a likely component of Long Covid but mostly because this is the decider on whether the Swedish route was the smart one.
We won't know the answer for a while. It basically means that the short-term deaths aren't the whole story. Anyone who dies from a cancer or autoimmune disorder triggered by Covid activating a fossil virus should be added to the toll and we won't know those numbers for another 20 years. Nor will we know if "mild" or "symptomless" Covid was any safer than the severe form until then. We can probably check those who have been vaccinated to make sure the vaccine isn't doing this as well, but it's much less likely.
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Nor will we know if "mild" or "symptomless" Covid was any safer than the severe form until then. We can probably check those who have been vaccinated to make sure the vaccine isn't doing this as well, but it's much less likely.
The vaccines are not doing this. It would have showed up in the trials. No Long Covid from vaccination. As to mild case/vaccinated, there is a high probability it reduces this effect significantly, both by simple plausibility (less effect overall over a shorter time) and observation of reduced Long Covid effects, with fully vaccinated doing a lot better.
The non-vaccinated may lose a lot of life-expectancy from this effect though.
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The vaccines are probably doing this too. It's just way less likely and the sample size in the trials are too small to see much of it. Not to mention that the side effects would not readily be linked to the shot. People have more going on in their lives than being part of a vaccine trial. Other illnesses and pre-existing conditions.
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Are you kidding? With the level of anti-vax paranoia, we're just short of people blaming a stubbed toe or athlete's foot on the shot. If there was any significant (or insignificant) long covid like symptom in anyone who got the vaccine, Fox News would have it on 24 hour blast.
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And how would a vaccine based either
a) on a vector virus (Ardeno)
b) a mRNA spike proteing
could cause that?
There is obviously a remote chance that Sinovac or Sputnik, which both are based on the original virus could have a similar effect. But how plausible/likely is that?
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And you are obviously not aware: you are an complete idiot.
All vaccines had more or less completely normal trials.
If you would at least follow normal newspaper and TV news: you would know that.
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(Fossil viruses getting activated is also part of the mechanism behind multiple sclerosis.)
Actually, the most recent theory is a latent, but present, virus - Epstein-Barr. Nearly the same as a fossil virus because about 95% of people have it in their body. Though I couldn't say whether it's causing the effects itself or the reactivation of retroviruses. And neither can the research - yet.
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Once the fossil viruses in dna are activated, it takes more than removal of the trigger to shut them up.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.co... [wiley.com]
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Viruses such as JC, WU, BK, or any other polyomavirus, gamma herpes etc, live in 95% of us
This are not retroviruses. Retroviruses are deposits in our DNA that originally came from a virus. That genetic code is passed down to children generationally with no infection involved. But it is typically inactive most of the time.
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Which is why they are so desperate to get everyone vaccinated.
I think actually by this point we just want you to die.
Another reason to be diligent (Score:2)
This is an excellent counter to the people who wanted to get the Omicron variant and just get over it. I wonder how this relates to the other post today about antibody signatures? In another world, maybe there would be a fast, easy way to get tested so you could know your risk without having blood drawn. Until that time, I'll continue to be as safe as possible even though I'm boosted.
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Good news (Score:4, Insightful)
good news: only about 20-30% of people infected with Covid appear to be susceptible
Whatever all these things mean, 20% is a LOT.
Caffeine, Aspirin or Flu reactivate those, too (Score:5, Informative)
So does Influenza: https://journals.asm.org/doi/f... [asm.org]
... and several other mundane events.
But it appears one can recycle almost any finding from the past into some new Covid-panic click-bait message.
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I think the "therefore panic" part is in your mind. In TFA, they sell the point in saying these findings "could potentially explain many of the commonly observed pathogenic features of SARS-CoV-2". That's not panicky at all. The rest is their jargon describing biological phenomenon that we don't have to understand.
The panic argument is a tautology. When news are bad, critics say "they make us panic", and when there are good news, critics say "you see, they were making us panic over nothing". But only you we
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Re:Caffeine, Aspirin or Flu reactivate those, too (Score:5, Insightful)
Caffeine and Aspirin reactivate those:
https://link.springer.com/arti... [springer.com]
But it appears one can recycle almost any finding from the past into some new Covid-panic click-bait message.
Without being able to read your linked article because it’s behind a paywall, I’d be curious about the degree to which your statement is true.
We can say truthfully that “car accidents can result in death”, but that statement alone isn’t sufficient for us to make a risk assessment regarding whether or not we should be getting in the car. Likewise, the fact that caffeine and aspirin can do the same as COVID in this regard may well be true, but if they do so only under extreme conditions (e.g. VERY high dosages) or only once in a billion times, then that info isn’t particularly actionable or interesting to most of us. In contrast, the reporting here indicates one in four COVID infections is affected in this way, which is a high enough percent to make it of interest to us.
Again, I’m not disputing anything you said, but as someone with no background knowledge in this sphere I wish you’d provided more info, given the presence of the paywall.
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Caffeine and Aspirin reactivate those: https://link.springer.com/arti... [springer.com]
But it appears one can recycle almost any finding from the past into some new Covid-panic click-bait message.
Without being able to read your linked article because it’s behind a paywall...
I was curious as well. Full article here: https://www.researchgate.net/p... [researchgate.net]
Who's right here? (Score:2)
Simple solution (Score:2)
Fortunately, there's a simple solution for this all. Step 1 - put all people into hermetically sealed pods, embedding within each person a physical device that interfaces with the person's nervous system and sensory organs. Step 2 - create a massive simulation to convince people that they're living in the real world, feeding stimuli to each person via the physical device. Step 3 - devise a system for collecting sperm from males, and impregnating females, without their knowledge. Step 4 - develop algorit
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Spike protein? (Score:3)
sars-cov-2.dropper.exe (Score:2)
Classic dropper behaviour. Get into the system, gain persistence and start dropping more shit onto the box.
File this under "well, duh" (Score:2)
Really fascinating behavioral analysis, and certainly unsettling. This might have something to do with the wild growth of soft tissue cancers we've seen over the past couple years, being as it's been hypothesized that cancer has a viral component now, for years.
This is also precisely why so many people have been resistant to vaccination. Do you think those spike proteins are somehow less problematic when they're being produced by your own cells?
CRISPR question (Score:2)
Re:"long HAUL covid" ? (Score:5, Informative)
"Long haul covid" was the term that became common in US-centric support groups early in the outbreak when those of us with symptoms past "two weeks" started finding each other online (Apr-May 2020). "Long covid" was the term that UK-centric groups settled on, and the UK is arguably a lot farther ahead in recognizing and responding to it than the US is (we've got numbnuts still saying long haul covid is a myth or a scam, so...). It took the medical community about a year to finally start doing anything of significance about it, and once they did they seem to have mostly settled on calling it PACS (Post-Acute Covid Symptoms).
Once the US and UK support groups started to interlink online, mostly griping about various worthless neurologists gaslighting us that it was all depression and anxiety, long haul covid and long covid both became common parlance. A lot of researchers are still using those two interchangeably instead of PACS, as well.
Re: "long HAUL covid" ? (Score:2)
That is correct. In UK one of the big charities (30-odd hospitals, 100+ gyms), Nuffield Health is offering long covid rehab as clinicians actually recognise it as a problem. Few thousands of people went through it - and that is just this one charity.
Also PACS is an aweful name - it is also used in medicine for picture archiving and Comms systems - where you store x-ray, MRI and so images. Google will go mental with it as both will point to same websites...
Re: "long HAUL covid" ? - a bigger deal than that (Score:3)
That is correct. In UK one of the big charities (30-odd hospitals, 100+ gyms), Nuffield Health is offering long covid rehab as clinicians actually recognise it as a problem. Few thousands of people went through it - and that is just this one charity.
Worth mentioning that the UK's NHS (our universal health care) actually has a number of local dedicated clinics [uclh.nhs.uk] around the country which are specialising in this including ones dedicated to children [england.nhs.uk]. Some of the NHS info on COVID recovery could be really useful for anyone [yourcovidrecovery.nhs.uk]. There are almost a million people (just under 2% of the population) [inews.co.uk] in the UK calculated to have an important level of long COVID, which means the clinics have had problems reaching everyone that needs them, however there's clearly wide
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we've got numbnuts still saying long haul covid is a myth or a scam, so
Um, yeah.
Grab bag of non-specific, difficult to attribute symptoms? Check.
People with a shared traumatic (for various reasons, many social) experience "finding each other? Check.
What does it add up to? Agent Gulf War Long Covid Syndrome.
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So sorry to hear that you have Long COVID. I have CFS/ME, which is very similar and maybe even the same thing. CFS/ME is often triggered by a viral infection.
The gaslighting by many doctors is really unfortunate. It's taken us CFS/ME sufferers decades to be taken seriously, so at least you don't have to start from scratch. Still, you see a lot of comments on news stories about it from people saying it's just an excuse to take time off work and be lazy. That needs to change.
Unfortunately there isn't really a
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Sadly this kind of attitude is all too common. Because there is no test to conclusively show that someone has CFS/ME or Long COVID, some people doubt that it exists.
Please accept my sincere "fuck you", because you don't know anything about this and have no idea what it's like to suffer from it.
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I think the Germans also got a lot of information from Chinese studies, which were not trusted in Uk and probably also in US. This probably helped too.
Though regarding studies from elsewhere, later on it seems no one fully trusted the South African studies on the harmlessness of Omikron.
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> That sounds familiar. See the naysayers and deniers of myalgic encephalomyelitis
See also fibromyalgia, sarcoidosis, EBV, GBS, and basically every single slightly-rare nonlethal "hidden" disease on the planet. Unless your doctor has personal, repeated experience with patients having a particular disease, if you don't have dangerous symptoms they're going to gaslight you.
Re: "long HAUL covid" ? (Score:2, Interesting)
We used to call it Munchausen. Then we called them hypochondriacs or chronic fatigue.
Look at the stats, they donâ(TM)t make sense, 4x more women have it than men and LGBTQ are diagnosed with it at a much higher rate than normal.
Long COVID has over 200 possible symptoms and of those who self-identified as having persistent symptoms attributed to Covid and responded to the first survey in 2020, not even a quarter had tested positive for the virus. Nearly half (47.8%) never had testing and 27.5% tested ne
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Long COVID can also happen from a vaccine, but less likely due to way fewer spike proteins circulating around. There have also been many occasions where there were shortages of tests. It's also possible to be completely asymptomatic and get long-term side effects that you don't link with the illness or vaccine until later on.
Trying to correlate with a survey of whether someone thinks they had COVID is nearly irrelevant.
Re: "long HAUL covid" ? (Score:2)
I'm sure you'll be able to provide valid peer-reviewed citations that back up your statement that this syndrome can be caused by vaccines. Right?
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Read the full text of the article. They tested exposure directly to just the spike protein and not the active virus. It still produced a response. They determined that the spike protein was not interacting with the ACE2 receptors to cause this change but possibly another cell receptor.
We previously observed a rapid response to SARS-CoV-2 virus characterized by an early peak of RNA followed by HERV-W ENV protein expression in PBMC maintained in culture (5 days; Figures 1-2). This immediate RNA response in the absence of detectable infection by SARS-CoV-2, prompted us to investigate a possible direct stimulation by SARS-CoV-2 proteins, particularly by its surface Spike protein.
A recombinant trimeric Spike protein without stabilizing mutations [74], was added into the culture medium of PBMC (Figure 3).
Figure 3:
HERV-W ENV and HERV-K ENV mRNA induction after exposure to SARS-CoV-2 Spike trimer, followed by IL-6 secretion and HERV-W ENV protein expression in PBMC from healthy donors.
(A-B) PBMCs from 4 healthy blood donors were exposed to 0.5 g/mL of active trimer Spike recombinant protein in parallel to mock-control (buffer) and HERV-W ENV (A) and HERV-K ENV (B) mRNA levels were assessed at 2h, 15h and 24h post-inoculation (pi) by RT-qPCR using specific primers. Results were presented as the fold change of the corresponding non-infected condition. (C) PBMCs isolated from 3 healthy blood donors (donors #30 to 32) were incubated, or not, with 0.5 g/mL of recombinant spike trimer. IL-6 secretion was monitored in culture at 2, 15 and 24h post treatment (hpt) using the BD® Opt EIA Set Human IL-6® ELISA dosage. Statistical analysis: Sidak’s multiple comparison. Here, mock-treated and treated condition were compared at each post-treatment time-point 2 h, 15 h and 24 h (*: 0.5
Re:Joe Rogan asked Dr McCullough about this (Score:5, Informative)
Fuck. That. Noise. Fuck that virus.
I am curious if the 1 in 4 statistic is carrying over to Omicron, or if it has been reduced with its lethality.
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It's a distinct possibility it can happen, but the numerical difference in circulating viral proteins (and the fact that mRNA vaccines don't infiltrate all your body tissues like SARS-CoV-2 does) means it's astronomically unlikely.
Smells like standard antivax fare to me.
Re:Joe Rogan asked Dr McCullough about this (Score:5, Informative)
Rogan's relationship to the truth is complex, in that quite a lot of it is completely imaginary.
Re: Joe Rogan asked Dr McCullough about this (Score:2, Troll)
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Yeah, the problem with that is that some folks are capable of seeing their own imaginations for what they are, and some people have such utter faith in their own imagination that it never occurs to them that when hard facts smash into their beliefs, it may actually be their beliefs that are wrong, not the hard facts in front of them.
Re: Joe Rogan asked Dr McCullough about this (Score:4, Informative)
No, the number of infections was determined by statistical analysis of hard data. Which is why more testing doesn't drive up the numbers.
Re: Joe Rogan asked Dr McCullough about this (Score:5, Informative)
As a consequence he looks for confirmation in the data of his preconceived notions instead of trying to also find evidence to the contrary and then weighing it while being aware of confirmation bias.
Yes, some "scientists" do that as well. And in the science community there's the self regulatory duty to oust those fakers as the charlatans that they are.
If you want an example, just look at how he reacted to being confronted with data showing contradicting his belief that COVID vaccines would lead to higher rates of myocarditis.
But still, ad hominem of course, because a broken classic analogue clock is still right for about 2 seconds out of 86400 seconds a day.
Also concerning the last part. The hypothesis was made a long time ago. Just because the study was published recently doesn't mean it's a novel idea that hasn't existed long before. It just took them some time to come up with the data.
That's how science works. And that is NOT how Rogan works. He takes shortcuts, and of course he's right some times, but ultimately the approach he takes is an anti-science and more in line with today's mainstream journalism that blurts out sweeping statements mainly based on their opinion without doing thorough research except perhaps using google to come up with data that confirms them, while perhaps also digging up weakman arguments to pretend to have looked for counter evidence while showing how weak that evidence is compared to his.
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Many more people probably got it and were asymptomatic or mild and self-medicated.
Just like many more people died from covid but weren't recorded either because they died early on and there weren't enough tests to verify, coroners didn't bother to test, coroners not putting covid [thehill.com] as the cause of death at the family request which lowers the true death count, states reporting lower covid deaths [texastribune.org] until forced to change, and a multitude of other reasons the true number of people who have died from covid in the U
Re: Joe Rogan asked Dr McCullough about this (Score:2)
I thought the Germans had already found most of the post covid symptoms were down to many tiny blood clots and the virus could hide out in these clots also
Re:Joe Rogan asked Dr McCullough about this (Score:4, Insightful)
Rogan's relationship with Alex Jones should tell you everything you need to know about his relationship with the truth—namely, that it's non-existent.
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That's what we've done, we've looked at all the things he's said and for the most part he states things that fit a world view, facts be damned.
If he said 1+1=2 I'd say 'Yep, good job' because it's demonstrably true. When he says shit that's demonstrably false and actually dangerous then I'll call him a fuck nut. There's a fundamental difference in disliking the opinions of Jon Oliver or Joe Rogan or Alex Jones and recognizing falsehoods they spout.
You apparently like him, don't take it so personally whe
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While it is good to consistently refute malicious fiction with facts, at some point a person establishes precisely how untrustworthy they are and all you are doing is wasting your time retreading the same facts over and over again when all you need to say is "note this is Joe Rogan". It's exhausting to constantly refute when the source of misinformation is unrelenting and uncaring about the veracity of their information.
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I swear to god, if Rogan asserted 1+1=2, the frothing left would insist it's probably wrong.
Oh look, you found a vitamin pill in a cauldron of vomit. I guess we'll drink the whole thing.
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When did Joe Rogan extol the virtues of injecting disinfectant? I think if that happened it would be the only clip we'd see of him on MSM and the censored Internet.
Injecting disinfectant is attributed to Trump, not Rogan. A doctor indicated that using bleach on a surface kills the coronavirus. Trump, in his typical manner, talked without thinking and pondered aloud if we could inject something like a disinfectant to kill the virus inside our bodies. It was never meant as serious medical advise, and many websites and social media posts took this out of context [politifact.com]. Note the statement was made April 2020 and Trump has since said "I was asking a very sarcastic question to th
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2) I don't believe for one second the question was sarcastic.
I think he's just dumb as fucking bricks, asked a dumb fucking question, and got mocked for it.
I think you're construing the mocking as something else.
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Is that the same Joe Rogan who kept telling us that Covid wasn't anything to worry about, and extolled the virtues of the Trump Cure, that being horse wormer and injecting disinfectant?
No. Absolutely not. You are full if shit and you know it.
Funny that, because Rogan's own words [yahoo.com] say otherwise.
"If you're a healthy person, and you're exercising all the time, and you're young, and you're eating well ... I don't think you need to worry about this," he added.
Also:
all kinds of meds: monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin ... everything.
Would you like to lie again?
Rogan has started to say (Score:2)
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Note that I am not suggesting that people should not get vaccinated or take reasonable precautions, but your claim ("Is that the same Joe Rogan who kept telling us that Covid wasn't anything to worry about") is obviously mistaken--your supporting evidence ("'If you're a healthy person, and you're exercising all the time, and you're young, and you're eating well ... I don't think you need to worry about this,' he added") is was not a general statement that "COVID is nothing to worry about" but "COVID is noth
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1) If it's not completely accurate, then it is, by definition, at least partially false.
2) Except for the fact that regardless of how young and healthy you are, if you catch it, you can still transmit it to other people who might be more vulnerable. Worse, if you are healthy enough you might not ever even be aware that you have it, and not have the wherewithal t
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If it's not completely accurate, then it is, by definition, at least partially false.
Bureaucrat Conrad, you are technically correct. The best kind of correct. I'd rate it as "mostly true" though and stated why I thought such, and if you've a quibble, by all means take what I've stated above and point out the holes in my argument.
if you catch it, you can still transmit it to other people who might be more vulnerable. Worse, if you are healthy enough you might not ever even be aware that you have it, and not have the wherewithal to keep yourself isolated from other people.
This is true, but has absolutely nothing to do with the original claim I was responding to. We are not talking about what other people may have to fear from COVID, we are talking about what young, healthy people have to fear.
Again, I will reiterate: I am NOT sugg
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"COVID is nothing to worry about if you are young and healthy" which is significantly different--and is, if not completely accurate, not false
Only if you are a sociopath. But even still, those statistics applied to 7 billion people all getting infected over the course of a few years is pretty grim.
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It's possible to take reasonable precautions to keep at risk people safe while not prohibiting those who are at low risk from going about their lives. That's not sociopathic.
With regard to your second point, all seven billion people are going to get infected over the course of a few years. The expectation in February of 2020 was that COVID would eventually be endemic, and we needed to slow the spread so as to allow time to develop vaccines and to allow the disease to spread through the population slowly e
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we needed to slow the spread so as to allow time to develop vaccines and to allow the disease to spread through the population slowly enough to not overwhelm the healthcare system.
And we are currently failing the latter because of people with your attitude.
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we needed to slow the spread so as to allow time to develop vaccines and to allow the disease to spread through the population slowly enough to not overwhelm the healthcare system.
And we are currently failing the latter because of people with your attitude.
What attitude might that be? I've stated that people should get vaccinated and take reasonable precautions, is that somehow contributing to the spread of COVID?
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>What attitude might that be?
I'm guessing he's seeing this "allow the disease to spread through the population slowly...."
And this "morphed into an almost religious fanaticism that any COVID cases at all are too many..."
And he's seeing how some might interpret those two as meaning "the spread is useful, and especially at this stage because even if you could trust 'authorities' at one time, you can't anymore"
Don't underestimate the power of people to misunderstand others and then also bias their response
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All claims of "50 is the new 40" aside, I don't know anyone (well, anyone who doesn't talk about how coca-cola was $0.05 when they were a child and would pay you a shiny quarter to mow their lawn) who would classify people in their 40s as "young." We're called "middle aged" for a reason.
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Is that the same Joe Rogan who kept telling us that Covid wasn't anything to worry about, and extolled the virtues of the Trump Cure, that being horse wormer and injecting disinfectant?
No. Absolutely not. You are full if shit and you know it.
Funny that, because Rogan's own words [yahoo.com] say otherwise.
"If you're a healthy person, and you're exercising all the time, and you're young, and you're eating well ... I don't think you need to worry about this," he added.
Also:
all kinds of meds: monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin ... everything.
Would you like to lie again?
I don't listen to Rogan and I'm not a huge fan of Trump, but you do realize there's a different formulation for ivermectin for humans than for horses, right? Granted that even human ivermectin is FDA approved for treatment of parasitic worms and won't help against COVID-19. Early studies showed some promise of ivermectin against COVID-19, so you have to keep in mind when different people made statements regarding it. In May 2021, The WHO allowed ivermectin be used in clinical tests against COVID-19. The Ma [lww.com]
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We had the initial disease which mostly hurt the elderly and infirm and we could have simply isolated them, we could have let the rest of population get it and get over it; there probably never would have been a Delta!
Tell that to the young woman who cuts my hair [slashdot.org]. Go right ahead. We'll wait.
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we could have let the rest of population get it and get over it; there probably never would have been a Delta!
No, that wouldn't have happened. COVID isn't going away.
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How do you think Delta happened? Many multiplications mean many mutations. It was multiple times more infectious than the original, so it overtaking the original strain would happen regardless of vaccination. Probably faster because there are more people to easily spread it. Same with Omicron - more infectious than the original. It is going to overtake Delta. Besides, Omicron is way less deadly than the original. It is only the sheer number of people carelessly spreading it around that is causing the
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Viral recombinations are a function of infections.
Isolating the initially vulnerable, presenting zero mitigations, would only have sped up the arrival of Delta.
We'd be on double-ultra-omniplusicron at this point.
Beyond that, you seem to have some severe difficulty grasping basic multiplication.
Hospitals were fucking wrecked even with our flattened curve. If allowed to peak at its fullest, how many fucking p
Re:Preprint (Score:5, Informative)
Not exactly. PrePrint does mean it has not gone through peer review, but it is not "Publish anyway."
It is "Hey, we found these interesting preliminary findings that are not complete enough for full publication-- You should do your own research to verify!"
You are clearly confused what the role of MedRxiv is. It's a rapid collaboration and communication tool, not a journal.
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Peer review is very useful and a good practice, but it wasn't considered a critical gating practice to research until the 1960s-1970s. We did plenty of good science before it was common, and good science can be done without it. That alone shouldn't strip this of credibility.
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Scientists who aren't dumb don't consider it anything but a rough sanity check post 1970s either.
If you get a good reviewer they check to make sure the paper is understandable, makes technical sense and is at least moderately interesting.
If you get a bad reviewer they rant about something or other for a couple rounds until you complain to the editor they're a crank.
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Well, the vaccinations minimize infection time, so should minimize the number of fossil retroviruses reactivated. The vaccines with the lowest side effects are likely the vaccines that pose the least risk of stirring up any trouble.
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The vaccines with the lowest side effects are likely the vaccines that pose the least risk of stirring up any trouble.
Vaccines with more side effects produce a more robust immune response, especially against new variants. It's all a tradeoff.
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Absolutely agreed.
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You're absolutely right that the vaccine could cause the syndrome. With a lot less spike protein circulating, the vaccine is probably the much safer option regardless.
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I don't think you can even assume which causes it worse.
You likely can.
There's a pretty much 0 probability that a thousand vaccine doses creates as many viral proteins as even a day of viral replication in your body.
Fortunately, your immune system can be primed by far less than an active infection.
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About 4 in 1000 people get shingles in a year (US). The US has 211 million vaccinated people, so you would expect about 844K vaccinated people will develop shingles in a year. I don't think your VAERS number of 11K shows very much.
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that modify our own bodies to produce the spike protein
They don't modify your body to produce the protein. They use your body's molecular assembly engine to build the protein. One mRNA segment becomes one spike protein until they are all used up. Way less circulating spike proteins than a real infection.
It's certainly possible, even likely that the vaccine could cause this syndrome in smaller numbers. But overall, it's a safer alternative to actually getting infected.
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The acute symptoms are more likely related to binding to the ACE2 receptor. Most of that is already known.