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Space Businesses

Virgin Galactic Okayed For Space Launches. Will Richard Branson Beat Jeff Bezos? (go.com) 63

Posted by EditorDavid from the space-race dept.
"Virgin Galactic finally has the federal government's approval to start launching customers into space from New Mexico," reports ABC News: Richard Branson's rocketship company announced the Federal Aviation Administration's updated license on Friday. It's the final hurdle in Virgin Galactic's yearslong effort to send paying passengers on short space hops. The company is working toward three more space test flights this summer and early fall, before opening the rocketship's doors to paying customers. The original plans called for company engineers to launch next to evaluate equipment, followed by a flight with Branson and then a science mission by Italian Air Force officers.

In the meantime, Blue Origin's Jeff Bezos earlier this month announced plans to ride his own rocket into space July 20 from Texas. Virgin Galactic officials acknowledged the growing chatter over whether Branson will try to beat Bezos into space. "Clearly, Sir Richard Branson's flight date has been subject to speculation for some time. At this time we do not have any further details on the upcoming flight dates," company spokeswoman Aleanna Crane wrote in an email...

More than 600 people already have reserved a ride to space. Tickets initially cost $250,000, but the price is expected to go up once Virgin Galactic starts accepting reservations again.
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Virgin Galactic Okayed For Space Launches. Will Richard Branson Beat Jeff Bezos? More

Virgin Galactic Okayed For Space Launches. Will Richard Branson Beat Jeff Bezos?

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  • It beats buying a pro sports franchise (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rmdingler ( 1955220 ) on Sunday June 27, 2021 @08:15PM (#61528156) Journal

    I'm encouraged that the latest round of Billionaire one-upmanship is invested not only in their enormous egos, but in the advancement of technology for all humanity.

    Could it be, shudder, that the mindless accumulation of wealth on the order of the Fuggers and Carnegies is occasionally good for all mankind?

    • Re:It beats buying a pro sports franchise (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TuringTest ( 533084 ) on Monday June 28, 2021 @02:00AM (#61528664) Journal

      Could it be, shudder, that the mindless accumulation of wealth on the order of the Fuggers and Carnegies is occasionally good for all mankind?

      Sure, but is it the only way it can be done, or is it even the best way?

      First of all, how many billionaires spend their fortunes on projects that promote the advancement of humanity?

      Secondly, why let such a project be controlled by one person who can stop or derail it on a whim, rather than being the collaborative effort of people with a shared vision?

      • For some stuff, having a single person drive the vision works a lot better than doing design-by-committee. Many smart people made significant contributions to the success of Tesla, SpaceX and Apple, but these companies got where they are because of the vision of a single person at those companies. Sure, they have been spectacularly wrong in the past, and they might still derail their efforts, but are the programmes at NASA not derailed as easily? By a president who decides "screw it, we're not funding t
        • The right person in charge of a large project will beat a design-by-committee every time, and incentive for success rises precipitously when it is your money on the line. Private enterprise through entrepreneurship has bested government funded development for a while now. For one, governments tend to cut losses and find a new boondoggle when leadership changes.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by gtall ( 79522 )

            Really? Where is the private enterprise working on non-profitable diseases, unlike the NiH, which is a government entity?

        • Yea but Bezos has time and time and time again been that little bitch kid in the sandbox declaring he is taking his ball and going home. Doesnt get the government contract for pentagon private cloud? Sue for a restraining order so that nobody gets the contract for several years. Dont get a government contract to deploy satellites? Again file complaints and sue because you dont get picked for the kickball game. This whiney bitch has too much money for the damn tantrums he throws and its harming the space pro

      • Secondly, why let such a project be controlled by one person who can stop or derail it on a whim, rather than being the collaborative effort of people with a shared vision?

        Why shouldn't it? It's not like this particular billionaire is stopping YOU from getting together with a bunch of like-minded people and developing your own spacecraft. That's what corporations are all about, after all - a bunch of like-minded people throw some money a (perceived) problem....

        Note, of course, that neither billionaire no

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by shanen ( 462549 )

        Good comment, though I think you should have explicitly worded it in terms of dictators always making some bad decisions. I'll add a data point and a citation and my favored approach.

        The data point is the Chinese dictator's decision to deliberately burn the Chinese navy after the attempted invasions of Japan. All ocean going vessels were forbidden. Bad idea and allowed the Europeans to blindside them.

        The citation is Upheaval by Jared Diamond. He makes the same negative point near the end, though he's most

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      If comic books have taught me anything it's that Lex Luthor's seemingly benevolent, even generous schemes rarely benefit humanity.

      • If comic books have taught me anything it's that Lex Luthor's seemingly benevolent, even generous schemes rarely benefit humanity.

        Isn't it a damned shame so few of our contemporaries resemble superheroes in real life, yet, we're up to our knees in applicants for supervillain.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          I'm trying to think of one billionaire who isn't a dick. Not coming up with any names.

          Since super powers aren't real the only thing left is the Batman/Lex Luthor style super rich guy, and it seems that being a dick is something of a prerequisite for getting that rich in the first place. There are a few counter-examples in comics like The Atom/Ray Palmer, but in reality people like that who are good at engineering tend not to get very wealthy from their talents.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jwhyche ( 6192 )

            I'm trying to think of one billionaire who isn't a dick. Not coming up with any names.

            Elon Musk doesn't come across as dick to me. I've never met the man but from what I seen of him he seems to actually care about making the world a better place and just having fun in the process. But then again, Musk might just have a better PR department than the rest.

            • But then again, Musk might just have a better PR department than the rest.

              Sadly, Musk doesn't appear to take advice from them. When I think of Musk, I think of the Lord Acton quote: "Great men are almost always bad men".

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by jwhyche ( 6192 )

        Will I'm trying to have faith, I'm still waiting for one of them to come out wearing a grey suit stroking a white cat. Of all the billionaires though I think Bezos looks the most like a James Bond Super Villain.

        • Of all the billionaires though I think Bezos looks the most like a James Bond Super Villain.

          You mean those super villains whose plans Bond always manages to thwart? Let's hope Bond succeeds here as well.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 )

      I'm encouraged that the latest round of Billionaire one-upmanship is invested not only in their enormous egos, but in the advancement of technology for all humanity.

      Could it be, shudder, that the mindless accumulation of wealth on the order of the Fuggers and Carnegies is occasionally good for all mankind?

      I hope you realise that all the technology & innovation 'heavy lifting' has already been funded by the US taxpayer. NASA, DARPA, et al. did the long, arduous, brilliant work over more than 1/2 a century to get these playboy billionaires to where their space-craft projects are today. Any 'good for all mankind' has already been achieved. This is just excessive, conspicuous billionaire consumerism.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by HiThere ( 15173 )

        When you say "all" you are wrong. Try "much of".

        For that matter, a lot of it was funded by Nazi Germany, and other parts were done on private money by Robert Goddard.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

          And the Russians. And a bunch of other countries.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by HiThere ( 15173 )

            I'm not sure any of the US research is based on Russian developments past WWII. The ones I mentioned I'm sure of.

            N.B.: I'm not claiming that the Russians didn't do development, or even that Zambia didn't. I'm saying I don't know that any US developments are based on them.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

              You don't have to look very hard. The Atlas V uses actual Russian engines. The Russians were the ones who figured out how to make a staged combustion engine with oxygen rich pre-burners, which are one half of SpaceX's full flow staged combustion design.

              The idea that any country is solely responsible for rocket tech is laughable, almost as much as the idea that SpaceX is somehow leaching off R&D paid for by the American taxpayer. That's not how research works, not even if you're North Korea.

  • Yet another narcissistic stunt.

  • They already did (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JoshuaZ ( 1134087 ) on Sunday June 27, 2021 @08:19PM (#61528168) Homepage
    Branson has already had actual human passengers up, multiple times. Their spaceplane requires it. And neither will be the first to put tourists into space since the Russians did that already, and not just one of these suborbital jaunts but all the way to the ISS. If there is a competition to see which private company will put a paying customer around or a little itty bit over the Karman line at best, I have trouble caring. Neither of these is going to make much of a difference for anything that matters. New Shepard can't send anything to orbit; Blue's New Glenn rocket looks like it will be really good when it flies and actually matter, but that keeps getting delayed. Virgin's spaceplane is a technological dead end that has already killed people.

    • True, Branson sent passengers "up."

      However, they didn't go to space. And he wasn't the first one to send people up, either.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      The Russians actually had space tourists on Mir. A Japanese TV reporter called Toyohiro Akiyama went up there for a week.

      He was the first Japanese person in space, and the first space tourist. It was paid for by the TV station.

      • There's a difference between a tourist and a journalist working. Akiyama wasn't there to joyride. But yes if the bar is set at "non-astronaut" then yes Bezos is very far from relevant.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Well technically Bezos is a test pilot. I'm sure he will be working during the flight.

          I guess you could frame it as someone who is not a government/military employee, who is not primarily there to perform some task on behalf of the station operators.

          • Oh of course, Bezos isn't the tourist here. The guy who paid $28million just to fly up and see the view is.

    • I never much cared for "peaking" above the Karman line as a satisfactory criterion.

      Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic will most certainly market their products as "space flight" or "going into space". However, I would think the real bragging rights will be whether you've gone up and done an orbit, or went to the ISS. Once SpaceX starts sending people into orbit or to the ISS, hitching a ride to the Karman Line will seem like a cheap knock-off. Those with money do like to rank themselves.

  • I love space stuff but I seriously don't care about a couple of billionaires playing with their toys. They don't have any serious ambitions for space travel and they aren't looking to forward the science, so why should I care? Telling me about vanity projects for billionaires who have dodged corporate taxes is more like a slap in the face.

  • made it to space yet. Last I heard they were just flying higher and higher.

  • Branson's craft can get up to LEO at best, right? And there was much rejoicing. Yay. Yay. Meanwhile, Bezos is actually building a serious spacecraft. Branson might beat Bezos to space, but if he wants out of LEO, he'll need to pay for a seat on someone else's craft.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      Neither one goes to any kind of orbit. Well, technically the ones that intercept the ground are still orbits but....

      They both go up, you take a picture, and they come down. One comes down slower because it has wings.

    • When interviewed by the press:

      Leo : I saw a UFO once, man. It was awesome. It just hung in the air, then it sent me a message. Big bright yellow letters saying I was going to have a good year.

      Reporter : Did this, by any chance, happen at a football game?

      Leo : Yeah, man! And the weird thing is, I was the only one freaking out about it, man. Wait a second, good year, no, it was a terrible year, man. Stupid aliens.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Megane ( 129182 )
      Branson's other one (the plane-launched rocket) can reach orbit, which is still more than you can say for Bezos. New Shepard is a carnival ride with zero horizontal velocity (the technical term is "sounding rocket"), New Glenn is still basically a paper rocket at this point, and rumors are that its BE-4 engines (of which they've only produced a handful of test articles) are underwhelming and can't fire long enough to get to orbit without shitting themselves. Even worse, ULA is depending on BE-4 for its next

      • Even worse, ULA is depending on BE-4 for its next generation of rockets in, oh, about a year or so.

        Oh, I'm sure Tory will sort out that BE-4 if Blue Origin can't do it themselves.

  • Pointless Dog and Pony Show (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Slicker ( 102588 ) on Sunday June 27, 2021 @09:10PM (#61528252)

    They are both sub-orbital.. of no real consequence beyond the same you could do with a high altitude balloon. Space is not straight up in the air, float for a few minutes, and fall back down again. It requires orbital velocities in a lateral direction.

    There is nothing significant about either of these. Richard Branson's is completely pointless. Jeff Bezzo's is pointless until he makes it capable of going orbital--at a minimum. Until then, these do more harm to mankind's space future than help. It is bad credibility.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jovius ( 974690 )

      I wouldn't go as far as to say these do harm. They are somewhere between aviation and space. Space is a nice buzzword of course, and technically they can say that once fully operational. VG has plans for spaceports around the globe, and it's very likely they'll introduce bigger passenger ships later and longer routes. I like what SpaceX and others are doing too, because the field is not exclusive.

      I'd like to have space planes flying around than rockets however, because of the fatal noise the rockets would i

      • Also, there was no certain way to demonstrate that Branson's plane launched rocket would "not" be able to get to space "usefully" unless the attempt was made. "Knowledge is built on the shoulders of giants."

    • I would think that in space you can cover the sun with your hand and see the Corona. Below in the atmosphere where balloons go, you can't. Since seeing the Corona in the 1999 eclipse in France, I'd love to see it again...

    • I posted this in an earlier thread, but those with money do like to rank themselves with respect to bragging rights. I suspect that the Branson/Bezzos trips will not be recognized as worth much once SpaceX starts sending people into orbit or to the ISS.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jwhyche ( 6192 )

        What rock have you been living under. SpaceX has already started sending people in to orbit and to the ISS. Branson and Bezo programs are a couple of jokes when compared to the progress SpaceX has made.

    • They are both sub-orbital.. of no real consequence beyond the same you could do with a high altitude balloon.

      They can be quite valuable for research purposes. Testing equipment that needs to operate in a zero-g environment for instance but a "vomit comet" can't provide enough continuous zero-g time.

      The example that immediately comes to mind is a space toilet but NASA seems to have other priorities for these flights. Alan Stern (planetary scientist, New Horizons PI) will be on one of the first said flight

  • will beat the other to the race to send other megarich tax dodgers on the joyride of a lifetime? How riveting...

    Meanwhile, the rest of us can experience zero gravity for a split second at Space Mountain I suppose.

  • At first glance, I could have sworn I saw the word "off" in that headline.

  • Will Richard Branson Beat Jeff Bezos? (Score:3)

    by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 ) on Sunday June 27, 2021 @11:49PM (#61528528)

    Who cares, the only one involved with actual space travel is Elon Musk. What Richard Branson and Jeff Bezos do have almost no consequence.

    • Re:Will Richard Branson Beat Jeff Bezos? (Score:4, Informative)

      by quenda ( 644621 ) on Monday June 28, 2021 @05:54AM (#61529000)

      Who cares, the only one involved with actual space travel is Elon Musk. What Richard Branson and Jeff Bezos do have almost no consequence.

      Worth remembering that unlike the others, Elon Musk was not a billionaire when he founded SpaceX. He could barely scrape up $100m to invest from his Paypal windfall.

      • SpaceX also remains a privately held company. Elon doesn't want to risk gov't or investor interference to the point it would prevent SpaceX from sending a manned mission to Mars.

  • A single dose of LSD takes you into space for $5-20 [addictionresource.net], and the trip will be more intense and last longer.

    (Now, before some of the snow flakes out there start to OMG WTF are you saying, here is a big fat disclaimer for anyone who has lost the ability to take a joke - no, I am not actually recommending taking drugs, I do not have personal experience with LSD or any other drug, and I am not making fun at the expense of anyone you know who has a drug problem. Just take a few minutes of breathing exercises to calm

  • I always thought they were the same person but alter-egos. Like Jekyll and Hyde

    Has anyone checked whether Branson is still alive?

  • Silver and Bronze medals (Score:3)

    by taylorius ( 221419 ) on Monday June 28, 2021 @03:39AM (#61528844) Homepage

    Hasn't Elon already sent 5 people to the Space Station? Presumably he could have gone to proper, orbital space several times by now if he'd wanted to.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Megane ( 129182 )
      If you're talking about the NASA missions, then it would be ten people in three flights.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jwhyche ( 6192 )

      If I count right, SpaceX has sent 6 people into space to the ISS. The last one was a crew of 4 in a reused Dragon and Falcon. To catch up with the ISS includes making several orbits of the orbit. So SpaceX has sent 6 naked apes in to space and into orbit several times. Of course in orbit is where the ISS is.

  • . . . .nobody is circulating a petition to deny Branson the right to land back on Earth when the flight is over. . . .

    Bezos. . . not so much [change.org]

  • Isn't the question - who's first commercial tourist voyage in space - followed by the question - who burns the first tourist in space? Followed by the question - are you insured - and under which jurisdiction will this be judged? The lawyer cost may run higher than building and designing the pig wocket! Yes - i want to watch live "pigs in space!"

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