Report from Israel: About Half of Adults Infected With Covid-19 Delta Variant Were Fully Inoculated (msn.com) 212
Ran Balicer leads an expert Covid-19 advisory panel for the Israeli government. Friday he shared some troubling news with the Wall Street Journal:
"The entrance of the Delta variant has changed the transmission dynamics," said Prof. Balicer, who is also the chief innovation officer for Israel's largest health-management organization, Clalit.
About half of adults infected in the outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated.
These so-called breakthrough cases — defined as positive Covid-19 test results received at least two weeks after patients receive their final vaccine dose — are broadly expected as the Pfizer vaccine is highly effective but not 100% foolproof, according to Mr. Balicer. Israeli health officials are optimistic that even if the variant does spread, evidence from countries such as the U.K. indicate the vaccine will prevent a large increase in severe illness and hospitalizations that plagued the country's health system in previous outbreaks. Israel has recorded only five severe cases in the past 10 days, Prof. Balicer said, but whether more will emerge is too early to tell....
Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director-general of the World Health Organization, said the worrisome variant is now present in 85 countries.
Several countries appear concerned that fully vaccinated people could still spread the Delta variant. Israel's government just reimposed safety measures (including an indoor-mask requirement), according to the Journal. And Sydney, Australia (the country's largest city, housing more than 5 million people) "will enter a hard two-week lockdown on Saturday night..." reports CNN, "as authorities try to contain a fast-spreading outbreak of the highly infectious Delta coronavirus variant." More than a million people in downtown Sydney and the city's eastern suburbs were already under lockdown due to the outbreak, but health authorities said they needed to expand that after more Covid-19 cases were recorded, with exposure sites increasing beyond the initial areas of concern.
Meanwhile, CNBC reports: The World Health Organization on Friday urged fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks, social distance and practice other Covid-19 pandemic safety measures as the highly contagious delta variant spreads rapidly across the globe. "People cannot feel safe just because they had the two doses. They still need to protect themselves," Dr. Mariangela Simao, WHO assistant director-general for access to medicines and health products, said during a news briefing from the agency's Geneva headquarters. "Vaccine alone won't stop community transmission," Simao added. "People need to continue to use masks consistently, be in ventilated spaces, hand hygiene ... the physical distance, avoid crowding. This still continues to be extremely important, even if you're vaccinated when you have a community transmission ongoing."
CNN reports that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention also "warned that there is a small chance a fully vaccinated person could still get infected if they're exposed." "Current data suggest that COVID-19 vaccines authorized for use in the United States offer protection against most variants currently spreading in the United States. However, some variants might cause illness in some people even after they are fully vaccinated," CDC spokesperson Jade Fulce told CNN in an email on Friday. While Covid-19 vaccines are effective, Fulce said no vaccine is "100% effective at preventing illness." And with millions of people getting vaccinated against the virus, some who are fully vaccinated "will still get sick if they are exposed," Fulce said.
"However, people with breakthrough infections may get less severely ill or have a shorter illness than they would have if they had not been vaccinated."
About half of adults infected in the outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated.
These so-called breakthrough cases — defined as positive Covid-19 test results received at least two weeks after patients receive their final vaccine dose — are broadly expected as the Pfizer vaccine is highly effective but not 100% foolproof, according to Mr. Balicer. Israeli health officials are optimistic that even if the variant does spread, evidence from countries such as the U.K. indicate the vaccine will prevent a large increase in severe illness and hospitalizations that plagued the country's health system in previous outbreaks. Israel has recorded only five severe cases in the past 10 days, Prof. Balicer said, but whether more will emerge is too early to tell....
Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director-general of the World Health Organization, said the worrisome variant is now present in 85 countries.
Several countries appear concerned that fully vaccinated people could still spread the Delta variant. Israel's government just reimposed safety measures (including an indoor-mask requirement), according to the Journal. And Sydney, Australia (the country's largest city, housing more than 5 million people) "will enter a hard two-week lockdown on Saturday night..." reports CNN, "as authorities try to contain a fast-spreading outbreak of the highly infectious Delta coronavirus variant." More than a million people in downtown Sydney and the city's eastern suburbs were already under lockdown due to the outbreak, but health authorities said they needed to expand that after more Covid-19 cases were recorded, with exposure sites increasing beyond the initial areas of concern.
Meanwhile, CNBC reports: The World Health Organization on Friday urged fully vaccinated people to continue to wear masks, social distance and practice other Covid-19 pandemic safety measures as the highly contagious delta variant spreads rapidly across the globe. "People cannot feel safe just because they had the two doses. They still need to protect themselves," Dr. Mariangela Simao, WHO assistant director-general for access to medicines and health products, said during a news briefing from the agency's Geneva headquarters. "Vaccine alone won't stop community transmission," Simao added. "People need to continue to use masks consistently, be in ventilated spaces, hand hygiene ... the physical distance, avoid crowding. This still continues to be extremely important, even if you're vaccinated when you have a community transmission ongoing."
CNN reports that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention also "warned that there is a small chance a fully vaccinated person could still get infected if they're exposed." "Current data suggest that COVID-19 vaccines authorized for use in the United States offer protection against most variants currently spreading in the United States. However, some variants might cause illness in some people even after they are fully vaccinated," CDC spokesperson Jade Fulce told CNN in an email on Friday. While Covid-19 vaccines are effective, Fulce said no vaccine is "100% effective at preventing illness." And with millions of people getting vaccinated against the virus, some who are fully vaccinated "will still get sick if they are exposed," Fulce said.
"However, people with breakthrough infections may get less severely ill or have a shorter illness than they would have if they had not been vaccinated."
Base rate matters here (Score:5, Insightful)
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The math is sneaky, but understandable:
Imagine you had a 1% chance of getting covid when you were vaccinated. Then imagine 99% of the population was vaccinated.
If everyone who wasn't vaccinated got the virus, and 1% of the people who were vaccinated got the virus, then what percentage of the population would be in each group?
Sometimes you will see this with the measles vaccine too, where 50% of the people who catch measles in an area are vaccinated, because the population of vaccinated people is so much lar
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I'm not really sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying that the vaccine is a placebo? Are you trying to say that math doesn't work?
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How about a simple does of reality. The original claim for the vaccines was not that they would prevent infection but they would limit severity of outcomes. Now they are actively lying and claiming the original vaccine was meant to prevent infection.
Citation needed.
The TB inoculation has already substantial be established to do exactly that and for all the experiments for the vaccine people who had the TB inoculation in the most corrupt way imaginable not excluded from testing because GREED.
Citation needed.
How shite are those vaccines really, what is the performance statistics if patient who have had the TB inoculation are excluded. PS you do not treat a healthy person to make some one else safe NOT FUCKING EVER, the idea is pure psychopathic insanity. You treat people for their benefit and THEIR FUCKING BENEFIT ONLY.
Citation needed.
Re:Base rate matters here (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Base rate matters here (Score:4, Insightful)
What pisses me off is how companies are dragging their employees back to the office when it's pretty clear that it's a) unnecessary and b) too soon. I'm 90% sure the reason for this was plummeting real estate value for commercial property.
I've told this story here before but in my old town the local fast food joints held up a highway bypass for years because they didn't want commuters going around their shitting restaurants or worse having enough free time to make breakfast at home. If you think the folks who own hundreds of billions of dollars of commercial real estate haven't considered the effect of WFH on the value of their property you're nuts.
Re:Base rate matters here (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing we DO know, is that the more opportunities a virus has to spread, the more it replicates – and the more opportunities it has to undergo changes. Vaccinations reduce the spread and so reduce the number of mutations which could lead to variants
The more people vaccinated, the fewer variants and the sooner we'll stop having to deal with all this shit. When you get vaccinated, it protects you, but it also protects everyone else.
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Half of the infected were unvaccinated children under 16.
90% of all new infections are the Delta variant.
Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials suggest about 90% of new infections there were likely caused by the Delta variant, according to Ran Balicer, who leads an expert advisory panel on Covid-19 for the government.
Children under 16, most of whom haven't been vaccinated, accounted for about half of those infected, he said.
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It's doubling each week here in BC, where only about 25% are fully vaccinated (80% have one shot), seems the same story in much of Canada with the Yukon for example leading in vaccinations and now having more cases then anytime in the pandemic, cases are mostly among unvaccinated.
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Also worth mentioning, over the last two months Israel has been averaging 1 death per day (or less). With those kind of numbers, random anomalies are likely to pop up because the sample size is small.
as well as which vaccines are used (Score:3)
It also makes a difference which vaccine is used and in what proportion; the Pfizer & Moderna are stunningly more effective.
I can't find a breakdown for Israel; the pest I can tell is heavy use of Pfizer.
But if we see a lot of breakthrough in a population that was mostly J&J, for example, that doesn't *necessarily* mean there's anything for a population that's all P&M.
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that Pfizer is 92% effective at stopping people from getting severely sick with Covid, and AZ is something like 85%.
For stopping people from getting severely sick with Covid, both Pfizer and AZ are pretty close to 100%. These numbers that you provide are closer to numbers for getting Covid the disease (which means any symptoms strong enough to arouse suspicion of covid). Not for getting severely sick.
Re: Base rate matters here (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, how absurd that one would stoop to such levels as doing math.
Re:Base rate matters here (Score:5, Interesting)
Dude the MRNA vaccine is a triumph of human technology and science.
There is no risk-free path through the pandemic.
The vaccines have a risk, getting COVID has a risk.
I will take my chances with the MRNA vaccine.
I have some friends who did not, one couldn't get the vaccine in time and the other thought it was 'fake' and 'just like the regular flu'.
The first one is still on oxygen and the other one was in the hospital for a week until doctors tried a blood transfusion to give him antibodies from another person who recovered from COVID. He was off work for a month and still has a nasty cough.
Just because COVID doesn't kill you, doesn't mean it won't mess you up for quite some time.
Also, I will point out, this is only ROUND #1 of the pandemic.
We more or less beat it in the USA through vaccination, but the world isn't even close to being vaccinated. Round #2 will be if/when it returns to the USA and how transmissible it will be.
I would encourage you to get an MRNA vaccine, but if you want to take your chances in COVID Round #2 with the variants please post a followup post this time next year and let us know how you fared.
I realize this is an 'experimental' vaccine, but it has gone through Phase 1-3 testing. In a pandemic you don't have 10-years to wait.
I give credit to Operational Warp speed for investing in 3 vaccines to save humanity.
Well done!
Also, you might want to read this article and watch this video, no propaganda, just the backstory.
The Hero That Saved Us All
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/0... [nytimes.com]
How we got the vaccine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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The reason why is in the article
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In my state were are back to fully open, no restrictions. No masks etc... The only downside is that all the workers seemed to have vanished even paying $16.90 / hr.
Re:Base rate matters here (Score:4, Insightful)
Or, without gross invasions of privacy, anyone who can lie and say they were vaccinated.
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Yet, politicians are still locking down everyone without clear mandate to do so.
Where do you live that you are being locked down? Even California has removed their mask mandate for vaccinated people.
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Welcome to the Great Reset.
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If places fall into foreclosure, MANY other people that can't afford will be in a much better position to buy those properties. The bigger problem is of course letting both foreigners buy our housing but also letting corporations buy up numerous properties.
If you could only own one or two personal properties (not business property, but places people live), and we stopped letting foreigners buy homes, there would be a lot more available for your typical home buying citizen.
Even letting foreigners with green
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The problem with stopping foreigners buying property or taxing foriegn owned property is countries like the USA freak.
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I agree, but unfortunately we don't know who is going to get kicked in the balls by COVID and who isn't. We know that the elderly at the highest risk, but that is true across the board for most infections since they have the weakest immune systems.
Worth noting, the family of my friend who ended up in the hospital simply lost their sense of smell and taste for about 1-week and felt crummy. I don't think you can predict how COVID is going to effect you until you get infected. The same goes for the vacc
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Why do you think your ancestors would shake their heads? Just reading some of the pamphlets that were circulating a 100+ years ago about the smallpox vaccine, sounded the same as twitter today when it came to reasons not to take the vaccine, excepting now they've thrown in 5G and such.
If some people can argue that you're better off trusting your immune system to fight off smallpox then risking the vaccine, well some people are hopeless.
Re: Base rate matters here (Score:5, Informative)
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Truth!
Curiously this clearly anti-Greek labeling is meant to de-stigmatize: https://www.who.int/en/activit... [who.int]
Personally I would've preferred the Tedros variant, the Fauci variant, and the Clinton or Trump variant for the real badasses.
Re: Base rate matters here (Score:5, Funny)
Russian Roulette with poor aim (Score:2, Insightful)
If you have to feed the trolls you should at least change the Subject.
I'm basically quite happy to let the anti-vaxxers kill themselves, though I feel sorry when they kill their own children. What pisses me off is when their suicidal aim is so bad they kill other completely unrelated and innocent people.
But what about when they kill their own parents? Is that a kind of distributive justice?
No surprise (Score:2)
None of this emergent pattern should surprise anyone familiar on any level with viruses that affect humans. Society and many cultures worldwide will need to change at a fundamental level to prevent the otherwise inevitable.
Many human cultures currently see no difference between squatting down to defecate in a public place and coughing, sneezing or rubbing the face, nose and lips. In this case "many" will need to approximate "all" as soon as possible.
Of course keeping distance, wearing a mask, practicing hyg
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Many human cultures currently see no difference between squatting down to defecate in a public place and coughing, sneezing or rubbing the face, nose and lips.
Sounds like I need to stay out of Israel then.
Natural Selection has spoken. (Score:2)
Being a selfish asshole has proven to be a successful strategy for prosperity and especially mating. So, the number of people who are like this is necessarily high.
It sucks, of course, as it makes life worse for everyone. But natural selection doesn't care about that. It only cares about what works.
And assholery works.
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Does it? Seems that about 20% (plus or minus 10%) of the population are severe assholes. If it worked that well, I'd expect higher numbers
And? (Score:3, Insightful)
Vaccines protect against becoming sick, not becoming infected - thats the whole point. Your body fights off new infections thanks to the vaccine but the infection is still there for a short while. This is just more scaremongering from what seems to be becoming a covid industry with vested interests.
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I just checked the numbers, and the death rate from coronavirus in Israel is averaging ~1 per day. That's not really a sample size that will be representative, but it is a number that makes you happy.
Marek's Disease is becoming real? (Score:2, Troll)
Several countries appear concerned that fully vaccinated people could still spread the Delta variant
Maybe the conspiracy theorists weren't wrong after all
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marek%27s_disease [wikipedia.org]
Let me be very clear about one thing (Score:4, Insightful)
I will not go into another lockdown to protect people who refuse to get vaccinated, even if it turns out that there is a risk that vaccinated people can get infected and infect others. I will wear a mask indoors in public, but that's it. It is your choice not to get vaccinated, so it's your risk. I've done my part.
Re: Let me be very clear about one thing (Score:3)
Re: Let me be very clear about one thing (Score:4, Insightful)
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Doesn't it take a village to raise a child?
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Doesn't it take a village to raise a child?
Mothers, Fathers, Grandparents, siblings...going back to birth, doctors, nurses, and every other worker in the birthing wing. Babysitters, day care workers, teachers, counselors, advisors, coaches, and friends.
Yeah, it does take a village.
Also takes a known nutter to represent the village idiot.
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While I get this - as a parent, I really do - I think you're missing the point of "society". We are all in this together. Get vaccinated and help out your entire (city|region|nation|continent). The GP's point is that the kids can't be vaccinated, so the parents are. If all adults/12+ did, the kids under 12 would be safer. And GP's right. This libertarian-esque "I'll go my own way in a pandemic" blather is part of why we're in this much of a mess to begin with.
I have one child under 12 and one over. B
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It's not my choice, it's a medical necessity.
If you work with me I'd hope you would take precautions, and make accommodations for me like extended WFH.
Re:Let me be very clear about one thing (Score:4, Insightful)
I will not go into another lockdown to protect people who refuse to get vaccinated
Will you go into lockdown to protect people who can't be vaccinated? Are you going to ask each person individually before you declare you life more important than theirs?
I mean we know you hate kids, that much already is evident since they don't get the vaccine either. I mean I get it, I hate kids too, but I don't wish COVID on them. What made you so angry?
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No, I won't. It's not a rational solution to the problem. The relatively few who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons can go into lockdown and I would support that they get the help they need to protect themselves. I have done my part to protect these people by getting vaccinated and all the other stuff that slows contagion. If others refuse to get vaccinated and instead keep this virus spreading and hogging medical resources, then those people should be the target of your vitriol. Kids have a very low r
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Kids have a very low risk of severe consequences from Covid.
That is becoming less true, and the more you contribute to a world which allows further mutations, the higher chance a mutation lands upon that being not very true at all.
Anyhow, continue with your temper tantrum.
Re:Let me be very clear about one thing (Score:4, Insightful)
I have done my part
Yep. Like the guy who throws a homeless person a nickel. Pat yourself on the back.
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All we have to do to encourage vaccinations is to remove subsidized Covid-19 treatment if you aren't vaccinated. The premium for getting social subsidizing is that you get the vaccine.
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Aren't the vaccines subsidized too? At the very least the anti-vaxxers should get some of their money back in your proposal.
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You don't get to avoid taxes just because you don't don't plan on using some services.
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Some of these idiots have been on their death beds from the virus and still in denial.
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Lots of places like here in Canada where people haven't had the opportunity to get fully vaccinated. Personally I'm a week away from being considered fully vaccinated, my son just had today's appointment for his 2nd shot canceled (heat warning). With stories like this, I think the full reopening needs some delay here.
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So neither of you refused to get vaccinated, right? You're not the problem. But you know that people will say we need to keep locking down because vaccinated people can still spread the disease. But to whom? What's the risk? The vaccinated have a very low risk of falling seriously ill. Kids have a very low risk of falling seriously ill. Of the remaining people, there are very few who cannot get vaccinated, and the vast majority of those also need to protect themselves from other usually benign infections an
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The willingly unvaccinated are not the people asking for lock-downs.
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You're using a loaded subjective term which is objectively meaningless. I believe we need to practice hygiene. We need to take basic precautions for the health and welfare of other members of our society which do not significantly impact efficiency or public order. Our culture needs to evolve out of the stone age and take a view of persons who behave in public in a way which endangers others and society as a whole exactly as they are.
When you assess the harm to ou
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I agree with the sentiment, but we should be careful about assuming that everyone who is still vulnerable is vulnerable because they chose not to get the vaccine. Some people are immuno-compromised and it's uncertain whether the vaccine works on them.
More about the immunocompromised (Score:2)
For instance, my friend who's a transplant recipient. A large fraction of people on anti-rejection drugs develop no antibodies at all even from the mRNA vaccines.
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My father had a heart transplant 4 years ago. Still doing great. Both him and my mom got both shots back in February or March.
So just because you are on medications that help prevent rejection of an organ, doesn't necessarily mean you can't get the vaccine.
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Yes, but those drugs may limit the vaccine's effectiveness. We don't really know how much though.
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I have a feeling that people that don't vaccinate never really cared for lock-downs either. Those lock-downs were very much to please those that are now vaccinating.
If there is another lock-down, pay attention: it will be vaccinated folks scared that a new variant isn't stopped by their vaccine asking for it. It won't be the anti-vaxxers.
I.e. = 25% of those infected were vaccinated. (Score:2)
About half of adults infected in the outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated.
...
Preliminary findings by Israeli health officials suggest about 90% of new infections there were likely caused by the Delta variant, according to Ran Balicer, who leads an expert advisory panel on Covid-19 for the government.
Children under 16, most of whom haven't been vaccinated, accounted for about half of those infected, he said.
Also...
The rapid spread of Delta in the U.K., where it accounts for well over 90% of new infections, has already led to a one-month postponement of the planned ending of Covid-19 restrictions until July 19.
In the past seven days, the number of people testing positive for the virus has increased by 50% compared with the previous week, to an average of almost 13,000 daily.
The increase has mainly been in younger, unvaccinated groups, and data show the variant is making very little headway among older, vaccinated adults.
...
Over 60s account for just 4% of cases.
Analysis by England's public-health agency suggests vaccines provide significant protection against Delta after two doses, reducing the risk of symptomatic illness by about 80% and the risk of hospitalization by around 96%.
...
That is only slightly weaker than the protection vaccines confer against Alpha, also known as B.1.1.7.
The U.K. has recorded instances of breakthrough infections and even deaths among vaccinated individuals.
Of 117 deaths linked to Delta in the U.K., 50 were among fully vaccinated adults.
Scientists and public-health officials say the numbers are small and in line with what might be expected given the effectiveness of the vaccines.
All those deaths were in people over 50, who would be expected to account for almost all deaths in the absence of vaccination.
I.e. Cases of symptomatic illness among vaccinated are 25% or less, hospitalizations are 5% or less and deaths are at less than 0.4%, all of them people over 50.
I've missed something (Score:3)
Fully Pfizer/Moderna vaxxed can catch Delta (Score:5, Informative)
One of my vaxxed employees had to travel back to India last month. His mother, father, and brother were all in hospital with Covid. He ended up burying his mother, but when it came time to come home, he got sick. Not sick enough to require hospitalization, but a positive Covid test all the same. While this is a sample set of 1, one could posit that the vaccine kept him from a severe bout with the disease.
I also had my own "cardiac" experience with the vaccine, in spite of being in good health and weight. But life is about chance, opportunity and risk. I'm of the opinion that if the vaccine is liable to cause you serious issues, the real Covid disease will be worse.
One thing is certain: Delta is coming. And for the unvaccinated and unexposed, you'll run real risk of ending up like my employee's mother.
Re:Fully Pfizer/Moderna vaxxed can catch Delta (Score:5, Insightful)
Covid Vaccine as the bullet-proof vest (misnomer) which keeps you alive, but not bruise free.
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I also had my own "cardiac" experience with the vaccine, in spite of being in good health and weight.
What cardiac experience did you have?
Not the number that matters (Score:2)
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but positive tests results in people who don't get sick is not what should be worrying us.
A person who tests positive but does not get sick could be an asymptomatic carrier. These carriers not knowing they are infected could be infecting others as they may not be taking the necessary safeguards to prevent infecting others.
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but positive tests results in people who don't get sick is not what should be worrying us. ...
They infect others
Fails to mention the UK Statistics disagree (Score:5, Informative)
The UK has a much higher level of the Delta variant than Israel and is seeing little impact on vaccinated people. This is more "lets all panic" journalism"
"Analysis by England’s public-health agency suggests vaccines provide significant protection against Delta after two doses, reducing the risk of symptomatic illness by about 80% and the risk of hospitalization by around 96%. That is only slightly weaker than the protection vaccines confer against Alpha, also known as B.1.1.7."
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Sadly, much of the world does not have access to the vaccine. But for people who have access, but still refuse to get vaccinated .... one is tempted to shrug and say, "ok, its your funeral."
We may run out of wood to burn the bodies, as well as resources to bury the bodies. One may be tempted till they realize they're the ones that'll have to do the cleanup.
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At best, you get "some ashes that are mostly Grandma". It's a fiction that you get your loved-one's ashes.
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actually, you don't get ashes at all. What comes back up is ground bone, with the flesh essentially having been vaporized . . .
(the results may be different for these piles than a crematorium).
hawk
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That's not the case, at least for some people who are vaccinated. Even if they stay out of hospital they can get long COVID, long term symptoms.. Breathing problems, tiredness.
Even if you are fully vaccinated you don't want to risk getting it.
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Even if you are fully vaccinated you don't want to risk getting it.
Odds are that everyone on this planet will contract Covid. Without a vaccine, maybe 1% will die. With one, maybe less that 0.1%. All a lockdown does is to reduce the stress on the healthcare system.
Even if they stay out of hospital they can get long COVID
Long term Covid symptoms for the unvaccinated. Vaccines reduce the long term effects [yalemedicine.org] as well. But vaccines are also a cost incurred by socialized healthcare. So, lock them in their houses and hope that they trickle in to the hospitals to die at a rate we can handle. Yeah, right.
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really, really low
Not really low. But benign. You can still 'get' the virus but your immune system will fight it off to the point that you will be practically asymptomatic. And you will have few viruses to shed and pass on.
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Australia lockdown [...] Typical socialist regime thinking
What the fuck are you talking about?
"The Liberal–National Coalition, commonly known simply as the Coalition, is an alliance of centre-right political parties that forms one of the two major groupings in Australian federal politics. The two partners in the Coalition are the Liberal Party of Australia and the National Party of Australia (the latter previously known as the Country Party and the National Country Party)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Typical socialist regime thinking. Minimize the cost to the government (reduce health care costs) by locking everyone in their homes.
Are you off your meds? Australia has been a shining example of how people should have reacted to the virus. A few hard lockdowns and the entire country spent the overwhelming majority of last year going about their perfectly normal lives, shakings, hands, hugging, and drinking beer in pubs. There's a reason lockdowns are overwhelmingly popular in Australia.
And the 4.5% vax rate has nothing to do with socialism and everything to do with people who live in a country not affected by a virus not in any rush to
Re: How about .. (Score:3)
Don't be such a dumbass. What else should they have done with few cases and no vaccine? Just throw up their hands and watch an extra 45,000 of their countrymen die as they follow the US plan of "but bizness!" no doubt. The US is very well vaxed and we're still having proportionately as many deaths in a week as Australia has had the entire time.
Frankly, with their willingness adopt and follow public health plans that put ours to shame, there's a case to be made that they
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That word, socialist. You use it as if its a dirty word. The majority of the developed countries all have socialist policies and many have standards of living higher than the USA.
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Please. You can't blame USA for every problem south of the border, especially not all the way down to South America.
Re:How about .. (Score:5, Insightful)
It looks like you've rigged the game so the socialists can't win. Providing medicine to people without charge = socialism. In other cases apparently NOT providing medicine to people without charge also = socialism.
It looks like your real definition is anything you don't like that fails is socialism. If you do like it and it fails, that just isn't mentioned in polite company.
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For people who have defined socialism = bad, they always will find that socialism is bad.
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And there's the non-sequitur reply.
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Err, having to buy vaccines on the non-free-market (due to nationalist policies) means lots of countries are slow at doing vaccinations. I'll note that Canada is now one of the fastest at vaccinating and close to number one in first doses and putting 2nd doses in arms as quick as the vaccines show up in the country. Unluckily a previous right wing government allowed our vaccine manufacturing industry to be sold off and moved out of the country.
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So, sinij, do you ever ponder not being a moronic twat all the time? I get that it is comfortable for you being one, since you have so much practice at it, but still, do you never wish that you were something else, something a little bit better than just a moronic twat?
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Why do lockdowns bother you so much? Did a lockdown slap your mother or something? They are proven effective. The only people who have problems yell something about “Muh freedoms!” but can’t elaborate beyond grumbling about Fauci.
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It might have been close to that if not for people ignoring the lockdown and politicials consistently lifting restrictions prematurely.
It's like if you break your leg and instead of wearing a cast for 5 weeks as prescribed then getting re-evaluated, you decide you're tired of it after 3 weeks so you bust the cast off with a hammer and go for a run. Followed by the surprised pikachu face when the Dr. says you re-broke-it and need 5 weeks in a cast. Lather, rinse, repeat endlessly.
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It's worked pretty well for Australia and New Zealand. Things run normally with people going to pubs until there's a case, then there's a quick freeze and contact tracing until it ends.
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Tell that to people in Sydney, today.
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What's really sad is attempting to deny reality and wreaking havoc while doing so. Unfortunately it'll be decades before we know the true cost of both the virus, and all the measures trying to fight it.