Can Introverts and Extroverts Learn from Each Other? (theatlantic.com) 76
"Decades of research have consistently shown that extroverts have a significant happiness edge over introverts," writes Harvard professor/PhD social scientist Arthur C. Brooks. Extroverts "report higher levels of general well-being as well as more frequent moments of joy."
"COVID-19, however, has given us extroverts our comeuppance..." Research published in March in the scientific journal PLOS One studied the impact of the pandemic on people with various personality characteristics. The authors found that mood worsened for extroverts but improved for introverts... In ordinary times, American introverts are like cats living in Dogland: underappreciated, uncomfortable, and slightly out of place. A side effect of shutting down the world was to turn it into Catland, at least for a little while. That gave the introverts a chance to lord their solitary comfort over the rest of us, for once...
But the temporary shift has also created a kind of social-science field experiment, highlighting all the ways in which introverts and extroverts can learn from each other. If we take the lessons to heart, we can all benefit...
Extroversion is highly rewarded in American society, and predicts a significant edge in earning power — on average, extroverts make about $12,000 more per year than introverts. Extroverts attain other advantages in the workplace as well, such as promotions to leadership positions and high performance evaluations. Some resent these patterns, and believe they show a lack of cultural depth. In her book Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking, Susan Cain lists the many advances made by introverts — from the theory of gravity to Google — and argues that admiring and rewarding extroversion is not just unfair, but hinders progress...
The pandemic's pause in life's rhythms has left society's dogs in a state of social withdrawal, explaining the current happiness inversion. But it also presents an opportunity for extroverts to cultivate more real friendships like introverts have... Beyond the specifics of introversion and extroversion, there is one important lesson in all this: Watching and learning from people very different from you is a great way to learn to be happier.
Each group can teach the other a lesson that can improve all of our well-being.
The article argues that while extroverts "should work on deep friendships, which introverts tend to have more of," introverts "should focus more on the future, like extroverts do."
"COVID-19, however, has given us extroverts our comeuppance..." Research published in March in the scientific journal PLOS One studied the impact of the pandemic on people with various personality characteristics. The authors found that mood worsened for extroverts but improved for introverts... In ordinary times, American introverts are like cats living in Dogland: underappreciated, uncomfortable, and slightly out of place. A side effect of shutting down the world was to turn it into Catland, at least for a little while. That gave the introverts a chance to lord their solitary comfort over the rest of us, for once...
But the temporary shift has also created a kind of social-science field experiment, highlighting all the ways in which introverts and extroverts can learn from each other. If we take the lessons to heart, we can all benefit...
Extroversion is highly rewarded in American society, and predicts a significant edge in earning power — on average, extroverts make about $12,000 more per year than introverts. Extroverts attain other advantages in the workplace as well, such as promotions to leadership positions and high performance evaluations. Some resent these patterns, and believe they show a lack of cultural depth. In her book Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking, Susan Cain lists the many advances made by introverts — from the theory of gravity to Google — and argues that admiring and rewarding extroversion is not just unfair, but hinders progress...
The pandemic's pause in life's rhythms has left society's dogs in a state of social withdrawal, explaining the current happiness inversion. But it also presents an opportunity for extroverts to cultivate more real friendships like introverts have... Beyond the specifics of introversion and extroversion, there is one important lesson in all this: Watching and learning from people very different from you is a great way to learn to be happier.
Each group can teach the other a lesson that can improve all of our well-being.
The article argues that while extroverts "should work on deep friendships, which introverts tend to have more of," introverts "should focus more on the future, like extroverts do."
Nope (Score:1)
Selfishness and pride has taken over the population. Everyone seems to have some sort of mental illness now.
Better living through chemistry!
Re:Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
Not that very introverted people do much better at those jobs, they might just fail in other ways. The problem with leaders is that we expect a lot of things from them, all requiring very different and often incompatible personality traits and skills. I've always wondered if there was a way to subdivide leadership positions into a 2 or 3 person job effectively.
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I've always wondered if there was a way to subdivide leadership positions into a 2 or 3 person job effectively.
There's no reason why not, but it's going to require additional coordination efforts beyond the usual. That means probably some kind of tool and/or process which can easily be gotten wrong.
Extroversion isn't what you think (Score:2, Informative)
They're right about one thing: extroversion is (too) highly regarded in society. It's a very useful trait for...
Extroversion is a specific trait that comes from the big 5 [wikipedia.org] personality model.
The model starts with the "linguistic hypothesis", that states that knowing someone's personality is so important to survival that our language has evolved to describe it accurately. You then take all the [behavioral] adjectives in a language and map them in clusters of which words are close to other words in text, and when you do that you find 5 clusters. This is very strong evidence statistically, it's stable over cultures, langu
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That's all very interesting, but "extroversion", as contrasted with "introversion", was coined by Carl Jung over sixty years before the Big Five stuff even existed. Jung's concept of extroversion is what everybody is familiar with and is what people are referring to over 99% of the time that the term is used.
Here's a wiki link for you too [wikipedia.org].
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During my MBA class of Orgazational Structures. One structure that caught my interest but isn't used so much is the Grid Management Structure. In which you don't have a single leader hierarchy but a team of leaders white defined roles and responsibilities.
For example in an IT environment for a large project.
We have the People Manager. They choose who does what job.
We have the Project Manager. They choose when each job needs to be done.
We have the Architect. They design on how each job needs to be done.
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Introverts and extroverts process information in different, complementary ways. Extroverts are stimulus and reward seekers, and introverts seek time to reflect to analyze and synthesize their experiences. Neither of these things is bad, they're both invaluable.
Most people are in the middle of the spectrum and coordinate these complementary abilities naturally, but people at one of the extremes of the scale really need to cultivate productive work relationships with people on the other end. The classic e
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Introverts earn less than extroverts because introverts shy away from those jobs that demand lots of social interaction, even if it pays more, why the fuck drown in the egoistic self absorption of extroverts, the constant demand for social attention and non productive affirmation. Introverts earn less because rather than put with the bullshit of extroverts, introverts would rather earn less.
Not that introverts hate extroverts, just that the monkey house in the zoo always get boring in the end, except for e
Re:Nope[?] (Score:2)
Was that supposed to be funny? If so, can someone help me understand the joke?
And what does it mean when it says "No comment history available" when I clicked to see if it had a "pending" Funny mod? Somehow related to the current display of "Score:1"?
And why has a comment with two question marks filled me with questions? Does that mean I'm too introverted?
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Extroverts may earn more money but they're also forced to spend more money on being extroverted, eg. buying clothes to go out at weekends and spend money at fancy restaurants/night clubs.
They're probably earning far less overall. :-)
Re:Nope [Weak use of Betteridge leading to none] (Score:2)
Your first sentence seems tangential and even meaningless while the second is a platitude. The third sentence sounds like an ad, but maybe you just want to share your own drug-related misery.
If your real justification was Betteridge's Law of Headlines, then you should have cited it. Thusly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Overall rating as an FP? Meh. Interesting to see that the moderators so far agree. (But what is a naked "Overrated" supposed to mean when there is no positive moderation to negate? Just a
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Interesting response, but why so belated? The normal lifetime of Slashdot discussions is about a day.
To answer the question.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:To answer the question.. (Score:4)
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can learn to be a bit more open through nonsensical small talk
But if I start exercising my lips, my brain will stop working. Oh, wait, you already covered that...
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Introversion and extroversion have nothing to do with talking or being loudmouths. It's where they get their energy from.
Introverts get energy from being alone and isolated, Extroverts from groups. That's it.
Introverts can enjoy social groups - it's just that it's actually physically tiring and they will need to withdraw and recharge. Many people who enjoy "hanging out" or "going out" or even flaunting themselves are introverts. It takes skill, practice and work to build up your energy reserves so you can l
The definitions are a bit simplistic (Score:4, Informative)
Like a lot of things in life , most people arn't in one corner or there other, there's a spectrum. I love going out with friends but hate parties, I like chatting to colleagues at work and going for lunchtime drinks (in normal times) but I can't stand doing presentations with 2 dozen people staring at me. Does that make me an extrovert or an introvert? Answer: neither. Like most people I have aspects of both characteristics.
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+1 (Score:2)
This is the best definition I've heard, and it's the one my boss uses to describe people. I have no problem giving a presentation to a room full of strangers. I do a halfway decent job at it. I kind of like it, even. Then, I'm exhausted and useless for the rest of the day. I can sit and program for 9 hours straight with no problem at all.
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Like a lot of things in life , most people arn't in one corner or there other, there's a spectrum.
Jung felt it was an either or, in terms of preference, even though one can certainly exhibit and learn the other preference. Ultimately, one is more comfortable with one set of behaviors even if they exhibit both. An introvert may be quite good at teaching a class in front of a hundred people as an extrovert, but find it tiring while an extrovert may be invigorated by the interactions. Similarly, an extrovert can learn to stfu in meetings but feel frustrated afterward. A spectrum makes more sense to me
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An introvert may be quite good at teaching a class in front of a hundred people as an extrovert, but find it tiring while an extrovert may be invigorated by the interactions.
I'm definitely on the introvert end of things but I don't find teaching tiring at all.
(I'm an associate teacher at a local University)
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An introvert may be quite good at teaching a class in front of a hundred people as an extrovert, but find it tiring while an extrovert may be invigorated by the interactions.
I'm definitely on the introvert end of things but I don't find teaching tiring at all.
(I'm an associate teacher at a local University)
Fair enough. I find I need some down time afterward to recharge because i am mentally exhausted; although I am fine when I am actually teaching. I just want to get away from everyone for an hour to regroup.
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Sure there are very few binary states for people.
They are not pure Liberal or Conservative. If you poll anyone (especially on a topic that isn't covered by the press you may find some interesting diversity)
The same thing with Introvert vs Extrovert. I am considered to be very introverted. But I actually don't have issues with public speaking. I have an audience who for the most part is going to shut up and let me does out my prerehersed information. Then allow them to politely ask questions.
We u
No (Score:2)
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Yep, this is just another extrovert failing to understand why all the introverts aren't becoming more like him.
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At least we agree that it's the self-appointed extroverts who are the assholes.
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But I didn't hear him out. If he had a MEPR rating, he would have a big negative score on a couple of dimensions, so I skipped him this time. But I might be projecting. (Of course.)
However, I also think my decision not to read the comment was less a personal thing than my generalized objection to being told I need to read something. Or maybe a kneejerk TL;DR reaction? (Back to projection?)
(But if I'm daring to try to be funny, then I again greatly failed.)
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I think you're describing extroverts failing at socializing... Lacking a bit on the empathy side, if you can't fathom people being different to you in terms of wanting to socialize, and underlying reasons.
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As a former and current happy introvert, I disagree.
I'm not an introvert because I have the wrong social circle. I know quite a few people who are people to my liking, and have no problem avoiding those I dislike.
It's just that I enjoy thinking about things, and enjoy less talking about things. When I discuss a subject I like to think about it more than is possible when I discuss it out loud. Talking tends to be more about gossip and sharing, and I don't mind some of that, but it's certainly not something I
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That's the problem with "trying to learn from one another". There's nothing to learn. If I'm the type who prefers internal stimulation then I'd be happier with less social contact. People who prefer external stimulation would be happier with more social contact.
To me, it's about understanding and appreciating each other's style, and adapting to them to get things done. Introverts, for example, are sometimes seen as not being engaged in meetings because they are not talking and throwing out ideas but processing things and coming to a conclusion first. I've been in a meeting where a coworker told the group "he's not checked out, he won't speak tell he has something to say..." I felt like Mr Ed at the moment.
Neither style is right or better, just different and both
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That also means they care tend to care less about negative experiences from the outside world because they don't use the outside worth to measure their self-esteem against.
And Introvert can indeed be stressed out in a busy social situation where it feels like people are pestering them with irrelevant bullshit (from the Introvert's perspective). The intelligent Introvert also knows that other people don'
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Thank you *so* much for this... those were my exact experiences too. Starting at age 6 or 7. I finally fiured out "fuck what others think they're gonna pick on my anyway" (and boy did they ever) but hey, I lived my life *my* way. Never let someone else dictate your self-esteem. And always, always be brutally honest.
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I'm just telling you about the painful hurdle and how to jump over it, to actually reap the benefits of that.
Man, you clearly have no clue what you're talking about, and it's not the first time you spouted this nonsense.
By the sound of it, you were a low self-esteem extrovert, who now thinks that means you were introvert because you were shy and not very socially active.
What intro/extroversion is actually about is "mental energy". An extrovert recharges their "batteries" by seeking out maximum sensory input (for example a loud party with lots of people), an introvert does this by seeking out minimum sensory input
Bullshit (Score:2)
IMHO, "introvert" is not much more than a smear, a label that jerks are using for you when you have rejected to socialise with them because they are idiots.
When people find other people on the same level as them, they tend to open up. If you feel that you are "introvert", don't stop looking!
Re: Bullshit (Score:1)
Indeed. It's not like introverts don't like parties either, as some have claimed. Many parties I've been to have devolved into areas, one of which is labelled as an "introverts corner" and is usually a fair bit quieter and more comfortable.
TBH, I'm happy to be an introvert and they can stuff their introversion where no one can hear you scream.
It would have been nice to be more exposed to presenting skills during my education though... at least those periods don't last too long and techniques for coping with
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Indeed. It's not like introverts don't like parties either, as some have claimed. Many parties I've been to have devolved into areas, one of which is labelled as an "introverts corner" and is usually a fair bit quieter and more comfortable.
Exactly, introversion /= antisocial, it means you prefer to interact with others in a manner different than extroverts.
It would have been nice to be more exposed to presenting skills during my education though... at least those periods don't last too long and techniques for coping with them, né mastering them, can be learned.
That's key. Introverts can learn extroverted behaviors and often must to succeed in their environment; I think it is easier for introverts to learn to talk, even if it is tiring, than for extroverts to learn to stfu.
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.. Many parties I've been to have devolved into areas ..
TBH, I'm happy to be an introvert
You are not an introvert if you get invited to parties (or invite yourself). I am a real introvert, and the only parties I have ever been invited to are family funerals.
Re: Bullshit (Score:1)
Oh, I never get invited...I'm just part of the furniture.
You go to family funerals?!? You're not a true introvert! A true introvert wouldn't go to his/her own funeral, let alone someone else's.
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Extroverts should... Introverts should... (Score:4, Informative)
Just fuck of telling us what we should and shouldn't be, and let us be who we are already.
As an introvert, I'm happy earning $12000 a year less. Money isn't everything and what I would be required to do to earn that extra are things I just don't want to do... It's my choice, so stfu and leave me alone.
On the other hand, if you want to split the $12000 between us, as things are, then I'm totally up for that.
Re: Extroverts should... Introverts should... (Score:1)
Off.
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Not to mention that being an extrovert also costs money. Going out every weekend to nice sit-down restaurants and bars/clubs with friends is expensive, even more if you add dates. You need fancy clothing for going to parties. You need a fancy car, boat, etc. to have something to talk about at those parties. Extrovert hobbies and sports also often involve more expensive club subscriptions and sporting equipment (again, talking points). Those extra 12 thousand per year can go out in a puff of smoke while sust
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The fact that introverts prefer solitude and often struggle with sociability doesn’t mean that avoiding contact makes them happier. It just means they prefer something that makes them unhappy.
...what?! Staying at home, sticking to my own company is what makes me happy, not unhappy. Avoiding all the fucking retards 99% of the world's population consists of also makes me happy.
Those two quoted sentences show some extreme bias from the "researchers": apparently, they don't accept that things that don't involve socializing can make one happy, ergo introverts are trying to stay unhappy! Well, stupid crap like this certainly makes me unhappy!
One problem with the introvert/extrovert labels is the stereotype of the lone nerd living in the basement and people think the labels are reliable indicators to predict a person's ability and actions. It's not that introverts are antisocial, it's they socialize differently. An introvert can be quite happy and engaged at a party, but is likely to talk to one or two people in depth rather than play the crowd.
I've had people tell me they don't want introverted salespeople because they are well introverts and
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...what?! Staying at home, sticking to my own company is what makes me happy, not unhappy. Avoiding all the fucking retards 99% of the world's population consists of also
Enjoying your own company is being an introvert. Believing you're inherently superior because 99% of the world is "retards" is being an antisocial dickhead. The latter is not a requirement of the former and neither does the former excuse the latter.
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You called 99% of the world "retards".
I know full well that there are a lot of people who'd consider me a retard and an asshole as well and I don't really have any reason to disagree.
A stretch like that would turn you into a yoga master in no time.
I don't see why I'd need an excuse for anything.
Then stop making them.
The problem IMO is society's view of introverts (Score:5, Insightful)
Society tends to view introversion as a problem. The reason introverts are less happy is because others expect them to behave in a way that doesn't suit them. That's why social distancing helped. It let introverts behave the way they want while being sanctioned to do it.
That IMO is the only thing to learn. If people respect introverts as they are, they will be happier.
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Society tends to view introversion as a problem. The reason introverts are less happy is because others expect them to behave in a way that doesn't suit them. That's why social distancing helped. It let introverts behave the way they want while being sanctioned to do it.
That IMO is the only thing to learn. If people respect introverts as they are, they will be happier.
Introverts can also learn extroverted behaviors needed to succeed in a world of extroverts; mother nature must be an introvert since she periodically shuts down society to recharge.
Yes. (Score:3)
"Respect my fucking boundaries".
Prozac and benzos (Score:4, Interesting)
Basically the difference between an introvert and an extrovert is a mild form of social anxiety and depression. I took antidepressants and benzos once, and I started feeling very dishinbited, talking to random people. This freaked me out because I am used to being an introvert and it felt like I was drunk and silly. Not normal.
You probably don't need to learn how to be a different person. And perhaps you can't change the basic nature of a person.
Diversity is good. I wouldn't want to work in Sales. I can't really live without people trying to sell the stuff I make. And sales people would probably like to not touch a computer ever.
Division of labor and specialization are at the heart of progress. You wouldn't want to farm all your food and make all your clothes would you?
It's formidably expensive to not make use of the economies of scale that come with specialization.
About that... (Score:1)
"Can Introverts and Extroverts Learn from Each Other?"
Two words: No.
Parsimonious answer (Score:1)
Yes, but they won't get near each other to try. Next!
Universal answer (Score:2)
The Universal Answer to every headline that asks a question:
NO.
Happines edge (Score:2)
Decades of research have consistently shown that extroverts have a significant happiness edge over introverts
Not always. It's true that social anxiety can get in the way of 'happiness', that only becomes a problem when such people have to operate in an extrovert driven social hierarchy. As an example: Put a typical extrovert sales manager type in charge of an engineering team and, lacking the requisite technical skills, they will be less happy having to supervise employees that have little or no regard for anything other than those skills. It doesn't matter how good your golf game is. You don't know shit.
Many ext
Cats are underappreciated? (Score:2)
Yes (Score:1)
Heh (Score:2)
I'm about the most extroverted introvert you'll likely meet.
All I have to say about this question is that we introverts ain't teaching, and the extroverts ain't learning!