Fully Vaccinated Individuals Can Socialize Without Masks, Distancing, CDC Says (cdc.gov) 277
schwit1 writes: Americans who have received the full COVID-19 vaccine can gather with vaccinated grandparents or friends without wearing masks or keeping their distance, according to new CDC guidance announced Monday, and those grandparents can visit with and hug family members that aren't vaccinated as long as they don't have underlying medical conditions that put them at high risk for COVID-19. The new guidance also says that vaccinated individuals don't need to quarantine or get tested if they come in contact with someone positive for COVID-19 and don't have any symptoms.
Finally! Some sense! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Finally! Some sense! (Score:4, Interesting)
Vaccination undoubtedly removes the risk to an individual to an acceptable level. But in the case where plenty of vulnerable people remain unvaccinated, I think you still bear some responsibility not to be a vector.
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The theory is immunized individuals who are exposed will not respond to the virus and start shedding it. This seems to be playing out in the immunized population. this loosening of the guidance will further test the theory as exposure likelihood goes up.
Re:Finally! Some sense! (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the answer's pretty clear: with so many rabid anti-vaxxers and people who believe that masks are some equivalent to quartering soldiers in their homes, responsible vaccinated people should continue to wear masks, avoid gatherings, etc. Yes, a vaccinated person no longer faces a risk of death or hospitalization, but plenty of people still do. That risk exists because the virus is still circulating, and if you're merely contributing 10% of your former participation in that circulation, maybe you only have to apologize for one out of every ten dead grandmas.
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Que all the people who refused to wear masks due to BS "medical reasons" to all of a sudden have been fully vaccinated. They will have not proof but something they printed at home saying I've been fully vaccinated.
Stupid self righteous people will have this virus going for years along with opening and shutting our economy.
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But, seriously, for how long do you think you should have to wear this shit?
I've done so willingly to date.
I plan to get the shot this week.
After about a month I should be about as safe as I can get.
Now..Biden is saying they'll have enough vaccine out there for EVERYONE in the US by end of Summer.
I expect it shouldn't be that long before there is
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Re:Finally! Some sense! (Score:4, Insightful)
These comments are why we are at wits end. There will always be another virus. Wearing masks and distance socializing should not become the new norm.
Re:Finally! Some sense! (Score:5, Insightful)
Wearing masks and distance socializing should not become the new norm.
I'd be happy if mask wearing became the new norm, especially when people are sick.
If you have a cough or other symptoms, wear a mask or stay home. Don't get other people sick.
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You could also stay fit and healthy so to not become sick?
Doesn't work [go.com].
Re:Finally! Some sense! (Score:5, Interesting)
Dude, I'm as fit and healthy as they come. When it's safe to do so, I'm a competitive swimmer, I spend time in the gym lifting to be a better swimmer, and I race bikes in the summer and fall. I still get sick. In fact, I tend to get sicker than my relatively less fit friends—I don't know if that's just luck or a more robust immune response, but either way, eating healthy and being active doesn't make me magic. Viruses don't care that I can go out and do 100km on a saturday any more than you do.
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I don't know, but it feels better to wear a mask than to sneeze or cough on people.
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Every time you talk to someone within a few feet, you are spitting on them. That's a fact.
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Or maybe we could be more civil than we have in the past and stop spreading influenza unnecessarily - if we know we're sick. COVID is the exception in that you really don't know you're sick when you're already infectious. Maybe don't show up to work coughing. Or if you do, wear a mask.
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Why? I've spent the entire year without a flu or a cold. Why would I want to go back to that? The flu SUCKS. When I was a swimmer, the flu would keep me out of the pool for at least 3 weeks, and that's 3 weeks of lost training and fitness. People who swim with the flu—or even after being recently recovered—seem to be more susceptible to walking pneumonia or other lung infections. 3 weeks off is what happens when you're careful and want to get back in the water ASAP.
You want me to go back to the
Re:Finally! Some sense! (Score:5, Informative)
In some countries, wearing a mask is common place whenever they get the sniffles. No one complains that they get acne or that it's uncomfortable. Wearing a mask for extended periods is a part of some people's jobs. But wearing pants in the summer is probaby uncomfortable for some people, but the police take a dim view to nudists wandering around town.
Now even when masks may be worn it is no guarantee that the business you want to go into won't require the mask anyway.
The mask is not to protect you, the mask is to protect others from you. Even if you're vaccinated you may still be contagious as this occurs in some diseases, and it's unclear how this situation is with covid-19. You're best to avoid close contact with strangers, don't linger in stores longer than you need to, don't pack tightly in a line at checkout, etc. Yes, it's annoying. But just because you see a light at the end of the tunnel now doesn't mean you can jump off the train yet.
Re:Finally! Some sense! (Score:5, Insightful)
But, seriously, for how long do you think you should have to wear this shit?
It's not that hard. It doesn't bother me. Post-vaccination, I will probably continue to wear a mask when I go on-site with clients for my business until the pandemic is largely over. Because they shouldn't have to take my word for it.
I don't get all the complaining about wearing a single extra item of clothing as if it's some huge burden. Just like going to the store that requires a shirt AND shoes in order to be provided service.
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After about a month I should be about as safe as I can get.
And how safe is the person next to you? If you are at a gathering where everybody has been vaccinated, you're good to go without the mask.
Once we actually do have everyone vaccinated, we can all relax, but for now, many people still can't even get scheduled for a shot yet.
Although it is an extreme example, Typhoid Mary never did get sick.
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Only if you don't give a shit about others.
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Common sense is a fine thing, as long as you understand its limitations.
When dealing with the familiar it certainly feels like our gut has some kind of mystical connection to the truth, but that's actually just an non-verbal connection to our own past experience. Appealing to common sense on how to control a pandemic is like thinking you can land a fighter plane on an aircraft by common sense.
What feels right to do is an absolutely worthless guide in this situation.
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> thinking you can land a fighter plane on an aircraft by common sense
So, a plane landing on a plane then? I know 'aircraft' could potentially mean several things, but I just don't see how we'll get fighter planes landing on helicopters or dirigible airships anytime soon. Oh shoot, there's my common sense.
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You never heard of a parasite aircraft [wikipedia.org] then?
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Common sense would suggest that. The person you responded to demonstrates well the limits of common sense.
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Those vary widely, so depends on where you live.
Many states never had mask mandates...a couple more states this week are already dropping the mask mandates they did have, and more are soon to follow.
I would imagine within a couple months, most of the US won't have mask mandates anymore as vaccination ramps up.
At some point, likely this summer, the onus to protect oneself if not vaccinated, is on the per
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The assumption that those who are unvaccinated were ever scared of dying from the virus is inaccurate and so you fail to predict their behavior by assuming they would do what you would do.
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Finally some sense... Since the vaccine came out they've been pushing that you still can't do anything, and have to mask up anyway... Now we're getting some common sense.
The data so far indicates that vaccinated people have a 90% chance of serious illness from the virus, and a 85% lower chance of infecting people, i.e. 1/7th. But that was measured in a society (Scotland) where they were still subject to social-distancing mandates.
If you relax the rules, and these vaccinated people don't social-distance, does their exposure increase? And if they're say 7x more exposed to the virus, will that cancel out their 1/7th lower chance of infecting others?
I don't know. My common sens
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vaccinated people have a 90% chance of serious illness from the virus
There has to be something wrong with your statement. Can't put my finger on it.
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vaccinated people have a 90% chance of serious illness from the virus
There has to be something wrong with your statement. Can't put my finger on it.
Sorry, missed the word "lower" in there. 90% lower chance of serious illness from the virus, and 85% lower chance of infecting people. The rest of my post remains unaffected by this mistype.
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Considering that vaccinated people can be asymptomatic carriers, this makes NO sense. Sure allow them to mingle with other vaccinated people but they should not be going anywhere near non-vaccinated people.
Re:Finally! Some sense! (Score:5, Insightful)
But note carefully the actual CDC guidance. It does not say you should be running around in public without a mask of participating in large gatherings.
It DOES say that if everyone is vaccinated you can take your mask off and that you can safely enough visit a single unvaccinated household unmasked if nobody in the household is high risk.
Of course we'll have people who have been "vaccinated" running about in public unmasked screeching that the CDC said so.
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I will say that the only thing that I've read in the CDC guidance that was the questionable part was the hanging out with the elderly. The CDC for fully vaccinated people, has gone from "we're still looking at the data, so be careful" to "yeah, it's okay to head out" for the
The new guidance of:
The new guidance also says that vaccinated individuals don't need to quarantine or get tested if they come in contact with someone positive for COVID-19 and don't have any symptoms
Is a clarification from the January publication that some local governments had brought up as a corner case that the CDC didn't clarify for.
Since the vaccine came out they've been pushing that you still can't do anything, and have to mask up anyway
I wouldn't take it as "pushing" they were issuing caution because they wer
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Common sense and logic left the building so-to-speak over a year now
Best not to apply common sense, logic or reason to anything Covid
What about in public (Score:2, Insightful)
Hopefully people can go in public without masks and not be stopped by local ordinance. Once vaccinated - you can go to the grocery store and not get kicked out without a mask.
Re: What about in public (Score:5, Interesting)
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I've had great luck with flu shots the last couple decades, before that got flu each year and once was really bad.
As for "colds" (more than 200 different viruses) I find loading up on zinc at first sign keeps them short (vitamin C does nothing for me)
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I've never had a flu shot, and has been decades since I last had the flu [knocks wood]>
Hey, everyone person and community is going to have to figure out their best path to "normal" again.
Personally, I"m trying to get jabbed this week....and my great hope is, that the many food and music festivals that make the New Orleans area so great to live in, after 2 years off..WILL be able to open this Fall to where they are all pushed off till.
I sorely miss this major part of our culture....and re
Re:What about in public (Score:5, Insightful)
If we could trust people to be honest about whether they were vaccinated, then that would work. But we all know that people who just don't want to wear a mask would lie and skip them, so we're stuck with them.
Besides, we still really need them now until we have more solid data on how effective the vaccines are on all the variants, and even then there's always the risk of a new one.
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No! You CAN most likely spread even if vaccinated! You just won't have the symptoms.
Re:What about in public (Score:4, Informative)
True, but once vaccinated, you cannot spread, and you cannot get (from my understanding).
The largest public health studies I've seen reported so far were from Scotland (because Scotland keeps lots of centralized records). They found that the vaccine reduced your chance of spreading the disease to 1/7th, and your chance of a severe case of the disease to 1/10th.
I don't know how to interpret that data. The Scotland results are in a society where everyone still had to abide by social-distancing and mask-wearing. If the risk of a vaccinated person spreading the disease in that society was reduced to 1/7th, but then you change the rules of society so that people are exposed 7x as much, then do the two cancel out? or does the vaccinated person's risk of transmission remain at 1/7th regardless of social-distancing rules?
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This is interesting and thanks for sharing. I was not aware that you could be contagious without being fully infected (after vaccination). I knew you could be contagious prior to showing symptoms, but didn't think that would be the case if you were never going to be infected.
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I don't think that exposure was low among the people who do get infected. They're simply not following all the protocols.
The R0 value for COVID-19 averaged around 5.7 - and that accounts for the average of who is and isn't following mask and distancing rules. If you divide that by 7, each infected person is going to infect less than one person on average. If R0 is less than 1, it stops.
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You could actually have an active infection when you get the shot. It will take while to clear out the virus even if the vaccine helps in this scenario.
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Hopefully people can go in public without masks and not be stopped by local ordinance. Once vaccinated - you can go to the grocery store and not get kicked out without a mask.
They aren't kicking people out without masks now where I'm live... I assume the sign is just up for liability reasons.
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In Seattle they don't necessarily kick them out, because they don't let them in to start with. Even the cart guys at Target will remind people in the parking lot that they have to wear a mask or they can't enter the store. Fortunately people around here tend to be more reasonable than those in the Stupid States, one of th reasons why we have one of the lowest deaths/million in the country in spite of having the first fatalities.
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They are kicking people out where I live. It is a state mandate to wear masks. Some places have guards at the doors forbidding people to enter without a mask. This is not a store policy, but a state mandate.
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IMO, it's better to continue to do so. We don't know if these vaccines stop you from spreading, and you just invite anti-maskers to go around grocery stores potentially spreading COVID.
This plus there is no guaranty that your own vaccination will be effective against all variants. The results so far have been good which led to this announcement. Even though I got my shots I plan on wearing a mask when I am around people who may or may not have gotten their shots yet. Lost three relatives and know people who can't taste bacon anymore. Don't want to be dead and I like my BLTs.
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At what point do you think we should stop wearing masks?
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It's really pretty simple. When the risk of transmission is no longer statistically significant. We're at about 9% in the US being fully vaccinated. Maybe most of another year unless things can really get ramped up (and people are keeping the vaccine bookings at full capacity and there are no supply issues).
But I imagine that outdoor public events with masks - even large gatherings - will become safe again much sooner, since the overall viral load of the surrounding air will drop greatly. Without masks,
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This is one of those Bayesian situations where you have to take numerical context into account to estimate the likely outcomes of your actions. Vaccinated people going to the grocery store may be fine in one circumstance and not fine in another.
Remember -- the vaccine does not reliably prevent you from getting just *enough* of an infection to vector the virus from an infected person to an uninfected one. The likelihood of that happening is not just a function of your being vaccinated, but also of your pr
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Not yet anyway, keep wearing the mask in public even if vaccinated. But the stores can always kick you out for any reason as long as it's applied consistently to all customers (ie, they can't kick you out for being a member of a protected class). "No shoes, no shirt, no service!" If a store can require you to wear a shirt (or pants!) then it can require you to wear a mask.
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Once vaccinated - you can go to the grocery store and not get kicked out without a mask.
Yes, you can if the store says you have to wear a mask to shop. It's just like no shirt, no shoes, no service. It's their property and they set the rules.
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Unfortunately it is a state mandate where I live. Stores don't get to decide.
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Prove you're vaccinated and not just being an ass.
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I don't know if that was directed toward me, but I said once vaccinated. I am way down on the list of people who can get vaccinated so it will be a while.
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Once vaccinated - you can go to the grocery store and not get kicked out without a mask.
I think you'll find the idea of a store asking you for your papers to be far more offensive than a store asking you to wear a mask, so no it's unlikely that a vaccine will mean you just get to go into a store mask free.
You know, (Score:2, Insightful)
if they had given any different answer, they'd face an angry mob. [wikipedia.org] You'd get a lot of "why are we doing all this shit then!"
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Were people expecting a change in mandates? Why do you think that there would be another angry mob?
There is not a pattern of people storming the capitol building so maybe you shouldn't try to act like there is one.
And for those who had covid? (Score:3)
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Given there are confirmed cases of people getting infected a second time, I would keep wearing a mask even if I had COVID previously
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Given there are confirmed cases of people getting infected a second time, I would keep wearing a mask even if I had COVID previously
There are also confirmed cases of people getting COVID after the vaccine. Indeed very high quality peer reviewed studies - for the Oxford/AstraZeneca it is about ~30% for the mRNA ones its closer to ~5%. Yet, the CDC still thinks that's enough protection to let them lose on society.
It actually would make a lot of sense to afford people who have had the virus the same level of freedoms. We don't have enough vaccine anyway, and in some areas this might be up to 20-30% of people. That is going to make reaching
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There's a difference between designed immune response and what your body concocts while getting sick. You realise this isn't an 80s era vaccine where you're being injected with the actual virus right?
Drawing any parallels between the COVID vaccine and antibodies you may have due to having contracted COVID is completely pointless.
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Depends on which part of the virus their immune system is fighting. We know with the mRNA vaccines it's the spike proteins that are targeted by any antibodies that results. Because that's the only part of the virus structure your body sees from the shot. Antibodies from an infection in the wild is a lot less targeted and may not fight off every strain equally.
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I assume that would also qualify her to be without a mask given that her body has the necessary defense mechanisms?
Don't assume. There's a difference between having a bunch of antibodies due to catching a virus and being inoculated. For one the antibodies fade after only a couple of months and we've had plenty confirmed cases of reinfection.
Not good (Score:5, Insightful)
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People will falsely claim they have the vaccine and use this as a way to get around mask wearing.
So wear a KN-95 mask when you're out in public, at least until you've gotten the vaccine. They are reasonably inexpensive now [amazon.com].
Also, given that these viruses don't survive for long on surfaces - you can reuse them, for as long as they hold up intact, in a two or three mask rotation. Not to mention that surface transmission is not thought to be a significant factor anyway...
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People will falsely claim they have the vaccine and use this as a way to get around mask wearing.
To fool their grandparents? Or their grandparents would be the ones lying to be able to see their grandchildren? Honestly, if they were going to do that they probably were already gathering.
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People will falsely claim they have the vaccine and use this as a way to get around mask wearing.
That's fine. Show your papers. I wonder if people will find that less offensive than simply wearing a mask.
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You're are correct.
Especially when this is all it takes to prove you are "vaccinated"
https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]
I mean - who could possibly copy that?
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I've been volunteering at local vaccination events in my community. One thing that has changed in the last six weeks is that the people running them are being much more careful with the vaccination cards. So apparently there is some concern that people will steal them to make fake ones, and apparently there is already an industry selling fake vaccination cards :(.
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Which April were you talking about?
https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]
3+ months? Things will be back to normal on April 1st. China and SK already have a declining number of cases. Sorry kids, your dreams of Fallout won't happen. Back to ordinary life.
OMBad
Fully Vaccinated Individuals Can Still Spread CoVd (Score:2, Funny)
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Fully Vaccinated Individuals Can Still Spread The Virus.
Minus the AZ vaccine, we have no idea if this is the case or not, one way or another. The AZ vaccine reduced the amount you transmitted by 75%. While that sounds like a lot, going from spewing 500,000 viruses to 125,000 viruses is still a lot.
Let's not overlook.. (Score:5, Informative)
While we're applying "common sense" here, let's not overlook a key point they have on the same page of the site:
For now, fully vaccinated people should continue to:
o Take precautions in public like wearing a well-fitted mask and physical distancing
not in Canada (Score:2)
Still around 43rd country for vaccination, just above Russia and Brazil.
We are going to be lagging the USA by months.
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Nothing is stopping you from wearing your mask forever.
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haha, I'll be glad to get rid of it say a month after vaccination or 2nd vax depending.... but actually would be nice to start doing like many asian countries and wearing one during "common cold" (which can be any of couple hundred viruses of all types)
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Nothing is stopping you from wearing your mask forever.
Try going into a bank next year wearing one.
Re:variants? (Score:4, Insightful)
Given that variants have been in the news prominently for the last three months, and given that the CDC is staffed with scientists who know about variants, I am quite certain that they considered variants.
Elimination (Score:2)
Oh, I think the variants were at the forefront of this decision. I think that the reason they are not pursuing the more obvious 'vaccinate the vulnerable and open up' strategy is because a lot of scientist think that the chance of a vaccine escape mutant is extremely high.
They are trying to get as many people to take the vaccine as possible and this is a bit of carrot to help with that. I think this is because they can see a potential opportunity to drive the current variant to extremely low levels as the w
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I can understand why they want to do this, and also why they are being cagey about it. If they don't eliminate, then it's going to be a coin toss as to whether a partial escape mutant starts ravaging the vulnerable next winter.
Do you think so? There's a 50% chance it will mutate to avoid the vaccine within a year?
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I can understand why they want to do this, and also why they are being cagey about it. If they don't eliminate, then it's going to be a coin toss as to whether a partial escape mutant starts ravaging the vulnerable next winter.
Do you think so? There's a 50% chance it will mutate to avoid the vaccine within a year?
That was a figurative expression. I'd say the chance is a lot less than that, but with the variants appearing already it seems like a real possibility. Scientist will fight back with vaccine updates though. But I'm sure many health departments would just like to avoid all this uncertainty if the opportunity to do so presents itself over the summer.
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No. No, the experts do not say that. Immunity is more than just neutralizing antibody levels.
But variants may require a booster soon, given how poorly certain countries have done at keeping the outbreak under control, and the high rate of mutation that has resulted from their failure to do so.
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Yep. The US has done particularly poorly. We have our own strain here in Humboldt, ironically
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Several of those are European "nations" with minuscule populations, like Gibraltar. The US is right up there near the top with Brazil and Peru.
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Eh... no.
See Coronavirus: Is the US the worst-hit country for deaths? [bbc.com] for example. By "deaths per detected case" the US is doing pretty well, but as you said that's a poor matric since detection is so veriable. By "excess deaths" and "death per capita" the US is worse than most advanced countries (though the UK is truly awful, and Italy and Spain have issues). Other western European countries (the best comparisons to the US) are doing much better than we are.
Personally I think "excess deaths" will be the
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at least until the coronavirus is eradicated
You know that will never happen right?
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Darwin will take care of them, so the problem will just work itself out naturally.
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Not fucking fast enough.
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Darwin will take care of them, so the problem will just work itself out naturally.
The problem with vaccine is that Darwin's law doesn't apply very well.
First, no vaccine is 100% effective, so someone who is vaccinated can still die because some idiots didn't.
Then, some people can't get the vaccine. Sometimes it's because of allergies or medical conditions. But as of now, there is no approved vaccine for kids under 16.
And finally, for Darwin's law to apply, the virus would need to kill before one gets a chance to reproduce. Otherwise it's too late and idiotic genes will get passed.
So we n
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When was the last time you bought groceries and you weren't carrying any government-issued ID?
Re:This Won't End Well (Score:4, Interesting)
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Obviously no one can get an IDs when it comes around to voting but we should get a ID card for buying groceries.. right?
That is part of the plot. If everyone eventually needs an ID card to buy groceries it will make it a whole lot easier for all of them to vote too.
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Would you shut up. That's now it works. I may not get a severe case of covid, I may even be asymptomatic, but I can still spread it to others who may succumb to it.
When I kill someone, I want to watch them die with my own eyes, not have them lie prostrate in a bed for days or weeks where I can't see them die.
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Interesting, hopefully covid is coming to an end
Just like the flu.