After 44 Years, China Becomes the Third Country To Return Moon Samples To Earth (scmp.com) 45
Long-time Slashdot reader cusco writes:
In the first return of a lunar sample since the Soviets in 1976, the Chang'e 5 spacecraft landed Thursday in Inner Mongolia with 2 kilograms of material drilled from as much as two meters below the surface... On December 3, the ascent stage took off from the moon with the sample, docking with the orbiter three days later. After jettisoning the ascent stage the orbiter returned to Earth and was recovered December 17.
Here's a (fairly bad) video of the drilling and sample acquisition, and a video of the recovery, with an IR camera shot showing the hot lander and what appears to be a fox running past.
China's 23-day mission makes it only the third country to return samples from the moon, reports the South China Morning Post, while the drill sites are "believed to be much younger than that of the locations sampled by the Americans and the Russians..." Chinese President Xi Jinping on Thursday said space exploration knew no limits and called for new interplanetary exploration to turn China into a major power in space and realise national rejuvenation, as well as the peaceful use of space... The lander vehicle of the Chang'e 5 also for the first time unfolded a Chinese five-star national flag on the moon and will hold it there permanently, as it was abandoned after being used as a launch pad for the ascending vehicle...
With the successful completion of the mission, the Chang'e lunar programme aims to land Chinese astronauts on the nearest celestial body by 2030, and set up a permanent research space on the south pole of the moon in the future. China's space ambition goes beyond the moon. It sent a probe to Mars in July, and is preparing to launch a Chinese space station next year.
Here's a (fairly bad) video of the drilling and sample acquisition, and a video of the recovery, with an IR camera shot showing the hot lander and what appears to be a fox running past.
China's 23-day mission makes it only the third country to return samples from the moon, reports the South China Morning Post, while the drill sites are "believed to be much younger than that of the locations sampled by the Americans and the Russians..." Chinese President Xi Jinping on Thursday said space exploration knew no limits and called for new interplanetary exploration to turn China into a major power in space and realise national rejuvenation, as well as the peaceful use of space... The lander vehicle of the Chang'e 5 also for the first time unfolded a Chinese five-star national flag on the moon and will hold it there permanently, as it was abandoned after being used as a launch pad for the ascending vehicle...
With the successful completion of the mission, the Chang'e lunar programme aims to land Chinese astronauts on the nearest celestial body by 2030, and set up a permanent research space on the south pole of the moon in the future. China's space ambition goes beyond the moon. It sent a probe to Mars in July, and is preparing to launch a Chinese space station next year.
Is NASA still shunning the Chinese? (Score:2)
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China has their own space station.
With blackjack, and hookers.
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NASA isn't shunning the Chinese. The U.S. Congress is [arstechnica.com]. They're the ones who passed the Wolf Amendment prohibiting NASA from collaborating with China and its space program.
So here we are, at a time when a cored sample from the Moon is returned, and we'll be left out from studying it.
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So here we are, at a time when a cored sample from the Moon is returned, and we'll be left out from studying it.
Did the US share their samples with China in the past? Do you know?
And apparently does the US have so many samples from the Apollo missions that they still had some untouched ones by last year:
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/n... [nasa.gov]
Re:Is NASA still shunning the Chinese? (Score:4, Informative)
I’ve been in the vault/lab at JSC where they keep all the samples. Saying “some” samples are untouched is a massive understatement. At the time I was in there, about 15 years ago, I think they said that something like 90% or 95% of samples were still in a pristine, untouched condition, and of the ones that had been touched, most of it was during the initial rush. Scientists aren’t asking for untouched samples on a regular basis. Most of the time they can just as easily reuse an already-touched sample.
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And apparently does the US have so many samples from the Apollo missions that they still had some untouched ones by last year:
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/n... [nasa.gov]
Because all Moon rocks are alike? The Chinese samples are from a region we have never sampled before, with a different geological age.
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Because all Moon rocks are alike? The Chinese samples are from a region we have never sampled before, with a different geological age.
Envy much? Finish the untouched samples first. The US could have the greatest scientific find still stored away. To there now want to have the Chinese samples, because they could reveal something new is just stupid envy. The Moon isn't going anywhere any time soon and there are plenty more rocks on it.
Re: Is NASA still shunning the Chinese? (Score:3)
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I"m reminded of when the US Congress tried to tell NASA that they couldn't allow Russia to participate in construction of the ISS, even though they were the only country with experience building and operating a space station. Fortunately the other participants in the project weren't so short-sighted.
Uh-oh...caution (Score:2)
I hope the Chinese are mindful of Apollo 18 (the movie) and the danger of moon rocks...I'm being sarcastic and flippant of course...
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I'm being sarcastic and flippant of course...
It's sad that in this day and age you have to make that clear.
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Unfortunately, yes I do. But with the extreme conspiracy theories, including faked moon landings, people often believe what is made in jest. It is a sorry state of affairs, but let's just say I've gotten burned by conspiracy theories I made up on the fly...and people believed them. The reaction was more, electric when I laughed and said I made it up.
In this case, I'm making an allusion to Apollo 18...the moon mission that "didn't happen." Well, maybe...
Small step for a robot? Look out, mankind? (Score:2)
For what it's worth, I checked on the quantities. The first Apollo landing brought back 20 kg of moon rocks. That increased with each mission, and the last one returned over 100 kg. The Russian missions brought back very small quantities, but I've already forgotten how little. I've read that this Chinese mission brought back about 2 kg.
So my question is "What are the Chinese planning to do next?" Use robotic rovers to wander around the moon and collect large numbers of samples in a systematic way? Increase
Re:Small step for a robot? Look out, mankind? (Score:5, Insightful)
The more countries that are doing science, the better.
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China is spending money on science all over the place.
But in any case, if we got into another "space race" and advanced science dramatically as a result, would it really be a problem?
Re:Small step for a robot? Look out, mankind? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure a communist government's first thought about space exploration is "science".
Unlike the US, who planted their flag onto the Moon to test the wind conditions.
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Ha ha, well done.
Re: Small step for a robot? Look out, mankind? (Score:1)
Almost all the USA's achievements have been on the back of the military. That's what a majority of tax is spent on. It's a military that is aggressive and dominant.
Communism, if it really is that, doesn't look so bad to me.
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I'm sure a communist government's first thought about space exploration is "science".
This is a symptom of the problem with most people in the US and Europe being 100% ignorant of anything related to China. Due to the language barrier, you only see China through the lens of badly translated selective reporting by pro-western media owned by corporations with an agenda to sell fear.
Anyone who understand Chinese, spoken or written, can see for themselves, from numerous reporting or commentary, that the aim of Chinese space exploration is twofold -- (1) to look for useful resource that could be
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Just a shame you can't play nice with them. NASA won't be getting any of the samples because Congress said it wasn't allowed to work with the Chinese.
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The UK and other nations will very likely share their findings with the US and because US Americans do regularly work outside the US together with other agencies will there be opportunities for the US to get an indirect peek. Only NASA won't be getting any samples directly. However, with the existing cooperation between the nations already going on will probably nobody want to untangle this political web just to start a legal war. You will likely only not see the names of US scientists appearing on the pape
Re: Small step for a robot? Look out, mankind? (Score:2)
I'd imagine the Chinese will share their results. They're more into the global benefit rather than keeping things to themselves like the USA are.
Re:Small step for a robot? Look out, mankind? (Score:5, Interesting)
For what it's worth, I checked on the quantities. The first Apollo landing brought back 20 kg of moon rocks. That increased with each mission, and the last one returned over 100 kg. The Russian missions brought back very small quantities, but I've already forgotten how little.
170 grams.
I've read that this Chinese mission brought back about 2 kg.
So my question is "What are the Chinese planning to do next?" Use robotic rovers to wander around the moon and collect large numbers of samples in a systematic way? Increase the size of the lander until they can return large quantities?
They have a comprehensive lunar science program underway with at least two more landing missions in the near future and an orbiter. Large quantities of material aren't necessary for most scientific purposes with modern microanalytical techniques. All of the sampling missions China has conducted and planned are bringing back material from regions never before sampled.
Rovers are useful to collect a variety of materials from a single locality (you have to return them all to a single collection point), but probably less useful on the Moon, compared to Mars, since without the history of complex environmental processes the sites are much less diverse.
How long until they go all the way and send up a robotic factory that can build more robots on the moon? (Hopefully to build that moon base for humans, but I'm not going to hold my breath.)
Don't hold your breath for any factory or mining on the Moon. Unless you are just piling lunar soil in the lunar surface as a local building material it will always be cheaper to bring it from Earth. The fuel cost of putting a kilogram of payload on the Moon is only about $10, everything else is hardware and operations costs. Once heavy lift reusable rockets (under development) become available in the next several years the cost of putting stuff on the Moon for any large project is going to slashed by two orders of magnitude (assuming rockets can exceed 100 mission reuses).
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Much more interesting reply than the other branch. So where are your mod points? Or should I be blamed for the other branch because of my deliberately reminiscent Subject?
Mostly agree with your commentary and interested in your additional data. However I'm going to look for a source on that fuel cost. I don't think hydrogen can be produced that cheaply and in addition you might be ignoring the externalities of producing hydrogen from fossil fuels. I'm also somewhat skeptical about multi-use rocket ships. If
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Actually 170 grams was only from Luna 24, the last sample return mission. The total of the three was 301 grams.
https://science.slashdot.org/c... [slashdot.org]
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They clearly are not fucking about with the space missions. I would say their next mission up there, will be one of a series, leading to a earth base on the moon. So what who does it first as long as it happens. The second country of course should build their base as close to the first countries as possible, obviously connected, in case something goes wrong with either, failure to do so, would prove them to be egoistic idiots.
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It's nice to imagine international cooperation. However the recent evidence is not encouraging. Might be part of a (negative) resolution of the Fermi Paradox?
Anyway, I think (or speculate?) that sufficiently "advanced" robotic moon bases might be created and made sufficiently safe and self-sustaining before any people move there.
My latest flight of the imagination actually involved the moon... It starts with the idea of a space elevator. But how do you dissipate (or possibly even exploit) the frictional hea
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You just fire stuff up to orbit. What is need is an orbital access vehicle, heavy, tough and heat resistant that can stand being fired into orbit (it the opens the back door and releases the actual space craft, that goes where ever), the the orbital access vehicle de-orbits, either with a return cargo of Astronauts or empty. Any other equipment you send up there, once it has fulfilled it's use, should be designed to be repurposed. To fire the space vehicle, I lean on a high pressure plasma, in a similar cha
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I don't think the math works as well for the passive launch vehicle because I think the target (such as a space station) would need to be in a highly elliptical orbit. I'm imagining something more like a space shuttle, but with retractable wings for launching. I do like the idea of the vacuum tunnel (and I considered it), but I think the shock of hitting the atmosphere on launch would be too much to handle. (But how tall of a tunnel would it be possible to build? I just checked the pressure at the top of Mt
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Luna 16 (September 1970), Luna 20 (February 1972) and Luna 24 (August 1976), returned samples of lunar soil to Earth.[4] A total of 301 g (10.6 oz) of soil sample was returned from the three missions.
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Thanks. Someone else also replied with that information. However I suppose the most significant aspect is that neither the Russians or the Americans went farther with it. Maybe the Chinese will? Third country's the charm?
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I'm most hopeful because this time rather than being prompted by politicians trying to win their continual dick-wagging contest it appears that China is letting the program be run by engineers and scientists. (I say "appears" because their space administration isn't much more transparent than the rest of their government.)
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Hmm... Well, I suspect that they must have long-term plans for the moon, because in general they seem to plan stuff. But it's also true that the Chinese governments of the past have mostly been kind of anal-retentive rather than imperialistic... Then again, maybe that was just due to the limitations of the communications technologies of the old days?
Bad video? (Score:2)
Here's a (fairly bad) video of the drilling and sample acquisition
Considering the point of the mission was not to post 4K video to YouTube, but to collect lunar samples and return to earth, I thought the video was pretty good. It looked like there were at least two cameras, possibly three or four if they were stationary cameras.
[s]Perhaps they should have recorded the sound in Dolby Atmos. Or maybe ask Disney for a Tie fighter flyby. Those always sound cool when flying overhead in space. [/s]
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Great achievement (Score:1)