While Europe Accounts for 46% of COVID-19 Cases, Taiwan Goes 200 Days Without a Local Infection (go.com) 305
Europe "now accounts for 46% of global coronavirus cases," reports ABC News, "and nearly a third of total related deaths."
Dr. Jean-Francois Delfraissy, a senior French physician and the president of the scientific council that reports to the government, warned that the country has "lost control of the epidemic," after health authorities reported more than 52,000 new cases. He said that the council estimates that the true figure could well be closer to 100,000 daily cases, accounting for asymptomatic cases and those who haven't been tested...
Fearing both the economic price of national lockdowns and the political backlash from citizens increasingly wearied of the restrictions on their livelihoods, government officials around Europe have been reluctant to shutter businesses to the extent that they did in the spring.
The Guardian reports that Apple "will temporarily close 17 of its 20 stores in France from Oct. 30, as the country goes into a fresh one-month lockdown due to a resurgence of coronavirus cases."
Meanwhile, CNN reports that Taiwan "just marked its 200th consecutive day without a locally transmitted case of the disease," due partly to mass testing but also quick and effective contact tracing. Taiwan's landmark achievement comes in a week when France and Germany are enacting new lockdowns and the United States identified a record 88,000-plus cases in a day. The state of Florida, which has a similar population size to Taiwan, with approximately 21 million people, identified 4,188 cases on Wednesday alone.
Fearing both the economic price of national lockdowns and the political backlash from citizens increasingly wearied of the restrictions on their livelihoods, government officials around Europe have been reluctant to shutter businesses to the extent that they did in the spring.
The Guardian reports that Apple "will temporarily close 17 of its 20 stores in France from Oct. 30, as the country goes into a fresh one-month lockdown due to a resurgence of coronavirus cases."
Meanwhile, CNN reports that Taiwan "just marked its 200th consecutive day without a locally transmitted case of the disease," due partly to mass testing but also quick and effective contact tracing. Taiwan's landmark achievement comes in a week when France and Germany are enacting new lockdowns and the United States identified a record 88,000-plus cases in a day. The state of Florida, which has a similar population size to Taiwan, with approximately 21 million people, identified 4,188 cases on Wednesday alone.
Before all the downplayers pile in (Score:5, Informative)
The Asian countries tended to do better because they had strong anti-pandemic procedures in place and their population wore masks. Vietnam in particular did something smart, they have Quarantine Hotels where you can go to get away from your family instead of staying home and giving it to them. Of course that costs money and stuff.
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"Europe" has 750 million people compared to the US's 328 million. The countries above the US [npr.org] are the ones that either tried to ignore it (looking at you Sweden) or got hit early with an older population (read:Italy). "
Russia and Ukraine is on the European list as well.
Europe has 5,798,430 total active cases
The Planet has 11,532,134 active cases.
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Re:Before all the downplayers pile in (Score:5, Insightful)
Even worse we have a leader who has made wearing masks a sign of weakness and a political issue. His cult-like followers are listening and actively attacking local officials for trying to do the right thing. The US is in for a world of hurt this winter.
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The implied assumption in your comment is that all of Europe is compliant and wears masks. Which isn't true.
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It would appear idiocy is not limited to just the USA.
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when he used the little power he did have by closing the borders with China.
“We don’t have a travel ban,” Klain said. “We have a travel Band-Aid right now ... There’s no restriction on Americans going back and forth,” Klain said. “There are warnings. People should abide by those warnings. But today, 30 planes will land in Los Angeles that either originated in Beijing or came here on one-stops, 30 in San Francisco, 25 in New York City. Okay? So, unless we think that the color of the passport someone carries is a meaningful public health rest
It's got nothing to do with group think (Score:3, Insightful)
The anti-mask thing and the push to herd immunity are a thing because it created a clear divide for voters to pick sides on. This in turn is politically advantageous to a certa
No evidence that was true (Score:4, Insightful)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/t... [forbes.com]
https://news.northeastern.edu/... [northeastern.edu]
https://www.kqed.org/science/1... [kqed.org]
Hint: It was bars and restaurants.
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Lol I provide links to studies done in different areas all reaching the same conclusion and you still don't believe it.
Except it didn't (Score:2, Informative)
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Re:Before all the downplayers pile in (Score:5, Interesting)
The virus doesn't care about nations, so why should we report that way? the US is made up of 50 different polities unified by a Federal government, so why should we report Spain and Germany differently but we combine New York and California with Vermont or Washington who have done exceptionally well in controlling their COVID outbreaks?
This data keeps getting represented in ways that skews the perspective. It's almost faith based rather than data-driven.
Re: Before all the downplayers pile in (Score:4, Insightful)
Guess what, Germany is also a federation. It is so cute when the Americans think they are the only federation in the world. Even cuter is that they think their federation is actually a confederation.
Re: Before all the downplayers pile in (Score:2)
Anecdote:. My boss, who is currently in Paris taking care of family, has been showing pictures of people elbow to elbow in cafes. So some cultures in Europe also seem to persist in maintaining their way of life, in spite of the dangers.
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There are only going to be 3 ways to stop this:
1) vaccines
2) isolation/localization of everybody.
3) allow everybody to catch it, and ignoring the culling.
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Here is the todays number (31 of October)
---> USA: 70.2 Covid deaths per 100k
---> Sweden: 58.3 Covid deaths per 100k
And no, we didn't ignore it. We just choose to implement the actual guidelines for how to handle a pandemic, agreed upon by all EU countries years before Corona hit. Not our fault that all other countries failed to follow
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The single most important things to understand about this pandemic is that it moves mind-bogglingly fast, but anything you do about it will be slow to produce measurable results. This has several implications.
First: comparing how two places stand at a single point in time can be misleading. If you compared France and the US at the beginning of August it would look like France had COVID licked but the US was sliding out of control. But France has been riding an exponential skyrocket since then and is cur
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Covid racially profiles to find the best match?
No, genetics plays a role in how the body works. Sorry if that shocks you.
It's not genetics, it's money (Score:2, Insightful)
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the black and Hispanic communities in America (and minority communities in general) got hit harder because they're poorer and therefore more likely to live in inter generational homes. e.g. they live with their parents & grand parents. So the kids go to work/school, get sick, bring it home, give it to mom, dad, granddad & grandma and one or more of them drop dead.
I'm curious. How much do we actually know that? It makes sense to me and I suspect it's right but lots of things which seem sensible to me turn out to be incorrect.
I've heard lots of theories about what influences infection rates and the consequences of getting infected. Age, ethnicity, income, household size, mask wearing diligence, hand washing diligence, how prevalent the virus is in the community, any of a million possible factors could all be relevant. I expect it will take years to sort out which matt
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29% of US Asians live in multigenerational homes (Score:4)
the highest of any race. [pewresearch.org] Yet Asian Americans have the lowest COVID death rate of any race. [covidtracking.com] That doesn't really square with your little "inter generational homes" theory, now does it?
You've got Google you can find the articles and through them the studies. Have at it.
Yeah, we've got Google, obviously you do not. The fact is, the cause of racial disparities in COVID outcomes isn't settled science yet, despite what you claim. Furthermore, there are studies like this [jamanetwork.com] (which controlled for age, sex, socioeconomic status, and comorbidities) that suggest there IS a racial/genetic component at play with COVID - again, contrary to you unsupported claims.
Unlike you, people who can actually use Google find stuff like this in short order. Instead of expecting others to support your statements for you, why don't you do your own fucking homework instead? You might end up looking a lot less foolish by providing actual sources of your own. Is that too much to ask? Given your history, it probably is.
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The other was that in general, blacks and latinos, esp. illegals, are working blue collar and have little to no savings. As such, they are forced to continue working jobs that put them in close proximity with others.
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There are signs that people with type O blood are at a reduced risk for COVID-19 then people with other blood types. But the research is still early on so take it with a grain of salt. See here [webmd.com].
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After all we get not brainwashed by american education systems.
So asking for a source to support your claim makes me brainwashed? You're cute.
As for your links, let's take a look:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/l... [nbcnews.com]
Article talks about Cuba sending doctors to countries to help with COVID response. Says NOTHING about Cuba's healthcare system being the best in the world. In fact, it says "Many [Cuban] hospitals are run down, medicines are in short supply and Cubans complain about a decline in the quality of medical training."
https://uk.reuters.com/article... [reuters.com]
The exact same article you posted above. Says absolutely NOTHING about Cuba's
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Source here [nature.com]
"Asian" is a stretch. East-Asians are less affected, but Indians are more affected. It's also not about the number of cases, but the severity of the illness.
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but Indians are more affected
Indians...who are related to Europeans? [wikipedia.org]
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Source here [nature.com] "Asian" is a stretch. East-Asians are less affected, but Indians are more affected. It's also not about the number of cases, but the severity of the illness.
No offense, but that study is about risks of coronavirus (symptoms), not infection rate. As illustrated by the fact that South Korea both have similar proportions of the neanderthal gene the study mentioned (as illustrated by the study's graph), but the numbers of those infected, and died from both countries are way, way more than our's even when you're looking at proportionality of cases to population. Conversely, the Philippines, has 2x the population of Australia, but the same number of cases despite hav
Re:Before all the downplayers pile in (Score:5, Insightful)
Which civil liberty was violated by saying you should wear a mask?
Re:Before all the downplayers pile in (Score:4, Informative)
You'd be surprised actually. In the Netherlands that courts ruled just that, a mask mandate can't be enforced due to it violating constitutional civil liberties. The government did put the effort in to tell shops to individually enforce mask mandates though.
And that stupidity is reflected in the numbers: 7x the current cases per capita as the mask wearing policed by fines German neighbours.
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In the Netherlands that courts ruled just that, a mask mandate can't be enforced due to it violating constitutional civil liberties.
While in the US there have been calls for the president to mandate masks, his power in that regard is symbolic. He could, thanks to the Commerce Clause, probably require masks be worn in airports, or when crossing between states. But the US Constitution doesn't really give him a lot of power in that regard - which is why the individual governors have been the ones mandating the wearing of masks.
The Tenth Amendment to the Constitution declares that any power not reserved to the US Government nor explicitly p [uslegal.com]
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The courts in the Netherlands never ruled on masks during the pandemic because the government never mandated masks in public spaces (because of the Trumpian misguided idea that masks don't help). But there were indeed lawyers arguing that a mask mandate would be against the constitution.
IANAL, but the argument was silly IMO. You can't walk on the street naked either and religious dress that covers the face was not allowed either. The constitution also says that the government is responsible for the health o
Re:Before all the downplayers pile in (Score:5, Insightful)
The right to not infect other people as far as I can tell.
I think it's reasonable to say wearing a mask is an infringement of civil liberties, however if you don't wear one during a pandemic, then you should be criminally liable for murder if you infect someone and they die because you knowingly put others at risk without taking reasonable precautions.
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The right to not infect other people as far as I can tell.
I think it's reasonable to say wearing a mask is an infringement of civil liberties, however if you don't wear one during a pandemic, then you should be criminally liable for murder if you infect someone and they die because you knowingly put others at risk without taking reasonable precautions.
While I agree in principle, it can be very hard tracing an infection to the source. And remember that the police has the right to shoot somebody to prevent them from attempting to kill somebody else if that is the only thing that helps.
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Which civil liberty was violated by saying you should wear a mask?
The "civil liberty" to be an utterly self-absorbed asshole that does not care one bit what damage he/she does to their fellow citizens.
Pandemic control is not a civil rights issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Your failure to understand basic science does not override my right to be safe from your ignorance.
Re:Pandemic control is not a civil rights issue (Score:4, Informative)
While I wholeheartedly agree with you, the courts have ruled the opposite in places where civil liberties are protected by the constitution. Not coincidentally these countries where the people took their governments to court over their civil rights to not wear a mask are also the ones roaring through the biggest second wave.
You can see that in Germany where masks are mandated and the fines are severe, compared to Netherlands and Belgium where masks are recommended because the courts overturned the mandate, and Austria where fines are being issued and trivially overturned in court en mass. No surprise these border countries have between 7 and 10x the number of cases per capita as Germany.
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Germany has its fair share of dangerous idiots trying to sue the government over the lockdowns and the masks. We even have a political party doing it.
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Funny thing is, that even in America, SCOTUS ruled that the constitution is NOT a suicide pact, and yet, idiots continue to push for spreading the disease.
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Here in the Slashdot comments I've read a number of times that Germans for example follow rules and thus their numbers are so low. Living in Germany myself, those statements were so dumb that I never quite knew how to even reply to such nonsense. There's nothing magical about the German population. The amount of idiots is about the same as in any other country that allows people the liberty to not understand reasoning based on logic.
For example we can also take a look at Spa
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In Germany, civil liberties have very strong constitutional protection. However measures to protect human life are at the very top of those protections and all else is second.
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I agree with your point, but you might want to pick a better example, because at least in most or all of the US, homeowners actually ARE allowed to wire their home however they please, even if it’s not up to code. Quite often, the only restriction is that they must disclose anything that’s not up to code to anyone who purchases the home from them, but there’s nothing stopping them from wiring things incorrectly...which is exactly what one of the previous owners of my current home did (with
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I agree with your point, but you might want to pick a better example, because at least in most or all of the US, homeowners actually ARE allowed to wire their home however they please, even if it’s not up to code.
What? I don't know about other states, but homeowners in Texas are most certainly not allowed to wire their homes however they please. In Dallas for instance, the Electrical Code reads as follows:
Re:Pandemic control is not a civil rights issue (Score:4, Interesting)
I’m in the Bryan/College Station area. I’ll concede that I grossly overstated things and that in looking into it some more, there are many more limits than I was aware of (which I am very glad to learn). Even so, the scorch marks in my attic and the numerous other problems that weren’t up to code is a result of the fact that, as you said, you aren’t always required to get a permit, depending on the scale of the work being done.
I had a contractor discover the scorch marks while installing a fan for us, had an electrician confirm non-code wiring when I had him replace an outlet that didn’t make any sense to me, and have discovered dozens of examples of other non-code work. The previous homeowner apparently fancied himself quite the handyman because he’s a section manager at Lowe’s, so I’ve found incorrect kitchen and bathroom plumbing, natural gas plumbing that had to be replaced because it used the wrong materials, incorrect electrical work, you name it.
To say the least, it’s been quite the educational experience, but I clearly have more to learn, so thank you for correcting me.
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any more than fire safety is. You don't have a right to use substandard wiring in your house because of "civil rights".
Your failure to understand basic science does not override my right to be safe from your ignorance.
Very much so. Fighting a pandemic is fighting a catastrophe. Civil rights are suspended as needed in those cases. Get over it.
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any more than fire safety is. You don't have a right to use substandard wiring in your house because of "civil rights".
Well... (if you own your house outright) you sort of do have that right, in that your wiring can degrade over time or standards can change over time and you're not legally required to maintain it. For instance, I don't believe people that have aluminum wiring in their houses can be proactively required to fix it just because it exists. But you probably can't sell the house, nor can you call in an electrician and ask him to fix one particular thing while ignoring any other obviously problematic wiring - he's
I am (Score:2)
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So we force everyone to stay home and that will fix the GDP/unemployment problems? What are you even trying to say?
Yep. (Score:3)
You also do a FUCK TON of contact tracing and testing so you can quickly clamp down before a spike happens.
We're doing this in schools right now and it's working very well. It's keep the schools from turning into hot s
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It's also worth nothing countries in Asia have ZERO problems violating civil liberties and enacting police-states to FORCE people to stay home.
Only one with a mental problem would consider that a "violation of civil liberties", seriously.
People would riot in most of the world if they were imprisoned in their own homes.
No they won't - they would be picked up the moment they leave the house. To riot you need a mob. For that you need a place to meet and an option to go there.
And most people are smart enough t
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It's also worth nothing countries in Asia have ZERO problems violating civil liberties and enacting police-states to FORCE people to stay home.
Only one with a mental problem would consider that a "violation of civil liberties", seriously.
Not to be pedantic, but this is incorrect. The "right to assemble" is one of the core civil liberties in the U.S., and so any abridgement of that liberty by the government is at least potentially a violation of a civil liberty. How good or bad the motivation behind the action is important but in some ways secondary; the key is the process (aka "due process") that was followed in reaching the decision to allow the government to infringe on that liberty.
This is almost a completely separate question from wheth
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The right to assembke is not infringed. It is only temporarily suspended.
Big difference. Or did one scratch it out in the constitution? I don't think so.
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No, infringe means to encroach on, i.e. to limit - so being "temporarily suspended" still qualifies as an infringement of the right.
The right was indisputably infringed, the debate is whether or not the government made the right call in doing so and whether or not it followed due process in getting there.
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It's also worth nothing countries in Asia have ZERO problems violating civil liberties and enacting police-states to FORCE people to stay home. People would riot in most of the world if they were imprisoned in their own homes.
While, yes, China did that, we, Taiwan, did not enact police-state. I would know, I was born under martial law here in Taiwan (that ended in 1987). And, in China, despite being locked into their homes by the police (as in, seals taped, wood planks nailed to hold their door shut and sometimes, metal beams welded into place.) still has more cases per population than we do here (even by their official numbers, which many internationally are questioning the validity of) in Taiwan, despite that fact we never loc
Re:Before all the downplayers pile in (Score:5, Informative)
The scorecard
Sweden 587 deaths/million
Norway 52 deaths/million
Re:Before all the downplayers pile in (Score:5, Insightful)
Norway is nothing like Sweden
Are you for real? Is this the US geography education at it again?
Re:Before all the downplayers pile in (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Before all the downplayers pile in (Score:4, Interesting)
Your "blond people" comment is what is known as a strawman... aka informal logical fallacy or a sign of defective thinking.
Norway and Sweden are similar. The cultures, urbanization, physician density, obesity rates, health care expenditures and even languages are similar.
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A comment not even worth responding to... Norway, Sweden, Denmark are part of what collectively known group of countries?
It is obvious that you want to make assertions without evidence.
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Europe != EU
The two are often incorrectly used as if they were interchangeable, but the article talks about "the continent" several times, so they actually mean Europe and not the EU.
The 700-something million number is correct.
So (Score:5, Insightful)
The entire country of Taiwan has less infections than the White House. Think about that.
Meanwhile, in Utah (Score:4, Informative)
On Friday, beginning at 2 PM and lasting 15 minutes, Utah sent out an emergency alert warning [cnn.com] about the soaring covid infections and hospitals being overwhelmed to every phone in the state.
"State of Utah: COVID-19 is spreading rapidly. Record cases. Almost every county is a high transmission area. Hospitals are nearly overwhelmed," read the alert. "By public health order, masks are required in high transmission areas. Social gatherings are limited to 10 or fewer."
In a press conference on Thursday, Utah Gov. Gary Herbert called the state's situation "one of the worst outbreaks in the country."
Worst middle ground scenario. (Score:4, Insightful)
That's what this is.
Take a complete 100% lockdown*, and in two weeks, the problem is gone.
Take no action at all*, and soon, everbody not naturally immune is dead, and the problem is "gone" too.
But take a half-assed middle ground to make everyone almost happy but not quite, cause they'd bash your head in otherwise, and you got this current dragged-out Bataan death march to the clusterfuck.
What's a leader to do?
This is the first time I actually get our politicians. (I'm not in the US.)
Maybe because they stopped giving a crap about lobbyists.
Personally, I'd run a temporary dictatorship and two weeks od 100% lockdown. Necessary deliveries free for everyone! Borders stay closed for humans until this is over. Kill me later, I don't care. At least I saved your stupid fucking certified insane ass.
But given humanity's general effect, backing research on a perfect Covid successor would probably the morally wiser thing to do. (Yeah, kill me. Stop being in denial: We humans suck.)
_ _ _
* In both cases of course assuming 100% closed borders to anyone who isn't doing the same. (But letting through goods that are guaranteed to not carry any risk. Without the driver or truck!) Otherwise it's a waste of time.
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2 weeks lockdown only works if you are going to completely close the border for months after the lockdown. Otherwise you just get new infections into the country.
No illegal aliens, no refugees from other countries, no foreign visitors, no US citizens allowed to travel outside the US and even no US Military returning home. You good with that?
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How do you manage a 100% lockdown without people starving within a week? Even if you give people some time to prepare they won't be able to provision for 2 weeks without demand overwhelming food supply. Who is going to make those "necessary deliveries for free" you mention? People wearing bio-hazard gear? And for most countries with a direct border, you won't be able to keep it free of COVID-19 afterwards.
I agree that in theory this would work. But it's nearly impossible to put it into practice.
Taiwan does very little testing (Score:2)
"due partly to mass testing" is just wrong.
https://www.worldometers.info/... [worldometers.info]
https://www.cdc.gov.tw/Bulleti... [cdc.gov.tw]
America didn't even TRY that (Score:4, Insightful)
See here [cdc.gov].
Speaking of "xenophobia", we quarantined all aliens, but specifically exempted US citizens and other people who had valid travel documents. As if a virus would care about those things.
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Xenophobia in the US is silly anyway.
You're all xenos, unless you're Native Americans. And there was nothing wrong with that per se. (I don't blame amyone for the actions of his ancestors.)
We prefer to be called (Score:2)
Sorry, I'll just see myself out now...
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It's so caring to let people into country without quarantine during a pandemic, so lots of people get infected and die. Seriously, what are you smoking?
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It's so caring to let people into country without quarantine during a pandemic, so lots of people get infected and die. Seriously, what are you smoking?
On January 22nd when Trump was attempting travel bans, there were a handful of cases in the US. No one, and I mean NO ONE (yes, even including the Democrats ranting "Racist, Racist, Marsha" at Trump) supported that, which is exactly why he was labeled a racist for taking the exact same action other countries took.
As far as mandatory quarantines (yes, what we should have done better), you can't even get ignorant Americans to wear a damn mask because "Muh Freedumbs". We're going to be battling our own citiz
Re:America didn't even TRY that (Score:5, Informative)
A country that didn’t do that-easy, Australia. All returning citizens have to quarantine in supervised hotels for 14 days after arrival. Capacity issues mean that there are still 28,000 waiting to return. My state SA, WA, Queensland have no new cases for some time, other than in the quarantine hotels. Australians in general have worked together really well, with only a few far right people whining about it.
In Victoria they had a second wave, locked down hard and have got to the point of being close to 0 cases. Turns out a self disciplined population that cares about their fellow citizens more than money can do a good job.
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Yeah, remember when America tried to do that? We were labeled xenophobic racists by our own beloved MSM.
Only because you did it in an actual xenophobic and racist way by blocking people based on race and nationality rather than blocking by the fact that they travelled from a specific country, like the sane countries did.
"WuFlu" (the xenophobic and racist term used by the head of your administration) isn't limited to yellow skin, so letting Americans into America even when they were coming from China without so much as a basic quarantine is moronic, while blocking Asians from China (which effectively was the p
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Yeah, remember when America tried to do that? We were labeled xenophobic racists by our own beloved MSM.
Only because you did it in an actual xenophobic and racist way by blocking people based on race and nationality rather than blocking by the fact that they travelled from a specific country, like the sane countries did.
Perhaps you should have read what the other commenter shared to show how wrong you are: From the CDC document:
"This order applies to persons traveling from Canada or Mexico (regardless of their country of origin)..."
"WuFlu" (the xenophobic and racist term used by the head of your administration) isn't limited to yellow skin, so letting Americans into America even when they were coming from China without so much as a basic quarantine is moronic, while blocking Asians from China (which effectively was the policy) is very much racist, xenophobic, and above everything completely fucking worthless to prevent the spread of a virus.
It's moronic without testing and taking proper precautions, I agree. Now let me know which countries closed borders AND left their own citizens in other countries to die. We sure as hell weren't the only ones allowing our own citizens to return home. Moral and ethical outrage over that (outside of Communist countries who have no choice in the matter) is the same the world over. We're all compass
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It's clear you are a clueless racist Republican know nothing geekmux. I hope you get 4 more years of Trump. You deserve it.
Racist, bigot, xenophobe, cis-gender, nationalist Republican. How predictable. Got any more mindless words to share from the brainless collective? The Spanish/Asian Flu world would like to know why you're that ignorant when blinded by facts. I already agreed that our quarantine response (or lack of) was bad, championed by worthless "Representatives" hell bent on labeling ANY action taken to close borders as racist, while dividing a entire nation with Russian collusion bullshit years old, with a steaming
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Shutting down the borders of non-white countries is Trump's first go to action...
He didn't shut down or quarantine people coming from China... just Chinese
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Shutting down the borders of non-white countries is Trump's first go to action...
He didn't shut down or quarantine people coming from China... just Chinese
From the CDC guidelines directly:
"This order applies to persons traveling from Canada or Mexico (regardless of their country of origin)..."
Trump allowed our own citizens to return home. Are you telling me the "right" thing to do was to leave our own citizens to die in another country while battling a novel coronavirus? If so, please let me know why damn near every other country followed suit. I GET that every country cares about their own citizens first and foremost, and do not label that action as "racist". Ignorance is blinding you from seeing the difference between actions taken to protect our own citizen
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We are not talking about CDC guidelines but Trump original EO...
And the point is that he didn't require testing, health check or impose quarintine of citizens traveling from those areas. If he did that, he could take credit.
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We are not talking about CDC guidelines but Trump original EO...
And the point is that he didn't require testing, health check or impose quarintine of citizens traveling from those areas. If he did that, he could take credit.
Take a fair look at the planet right now. You might realize out of 200+ countries on Earth, only a handful of them were somewhat successful in containing the first wave of this virus. And they're suffering financially pretty badly as well. New Zealand is creating a different kind of death now, caused by strict lockdowns, massive trade embargoes, and unemployment caused by nationwide lockdowns. At this stage, it's practically easy to allow Draconian measures to make the cure worse than the disease. Time
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If only there was a way to test and quarantine people arriving who may have been infected...
If only we could have convinced 200+ other countries who didn't do that either.
...I guess we will have to wait for smarter people than you to develop that technology...
Only a handful of countries were even remotely able to take precautions like this, and that's even including Communist countries that gave their citizens no choice in the matter. America's response was bad and uncoordinated, perpetuated by shit-slinging Representatives hell-bent on selling Russian bullshit for ratings sake to Divide a Nation, screaming Racist, Racist, Marsha at ANY action to close borders.
Other countries, didn'
Re:America vs. the world. (Score:5, Informative)
"Taiwan's response focused on speed....Taiwan confirmed its first reported case of the novel coronavirus on January 21 and then banned Wuhan residents from traveling to the island."
Yeah, remember when America tried to do that? We were labeled xenophobic racists by our own beloved MSM.
Border lockdowns matter when battling a deadly novel coronavirus. Let's also hope that Taiwan isn't suffering massively under a crippled economy like the other "golden standard" is. (New Zealand). We won't be cheering on leaders who make the cure worse than the disease.
A) Your own words say Taiwan only banned people from one specific location, not an entire country. It would be logical to say, "This is where the infection is coming from so we won't let people from there come into our country."
B) The con artist thought he'd be cute and ban everyone from China, except he didn't. Not a single flight coming from China was banned [washingtontimes.com] from landing the U.S.
C) New Zealand's economy is not "crippled". In fact, New Zealand businesses are open [theguardian.com], people are going to bars, sports events are taking place and people don't have to wear masks or social distance [npr.org].
Meanwhile, the U.S. has recorded the highest daily covid case count on the planet [cnn.com], deaths are once again at 1,000 per day (and climbing), all but two states show surges in case counts, hospitals are once again reaching maximum ICU capacity [npr.org], Utah sent out a state-wide emergency message [cnn.com] to every phone warning people of the soaring cases, deaths and hospital utilization in the state, and apparently over 230,000 dead is no big deal [usatoday.com] to the con artist and his family. Finally, what happened to all those vaccines [tumblr.com] we were told would show up?
Re: (Score:2)
A shrinking economy is not a crippled economy. They are fully open for business. We are not. The Federal Reserve has sent us an additional $7 trillion into debt trying to prop up all those failing companies who received massive tax cuts two years ago and instead of doing something useful with that extra money, such as saving for a rainy day or gasp, raising the salaries of their employees, wasted all that money on stock buybacks and executive salaries.
The one, and ONLY reason, we had a rebound of economic
Re: (Score:2)
Let's also hope that Taiwan isn't suffering massively under a crippled economy like the other "golden standard" is. (New Zealand).
We're not. Thank you for your concern. Due to fast and diligent actions, we never had to lock down. And, as you can see, the lowered cases means the economy is still in fairly good shape. It's not as good as it could be with no pandemic, but we're not complaining. In fact, some experts forecast that we might see a 3.3% gdp growth next quarter.
Sorry to hear about New Zealand. They're a good neighbor.
Re: (Score:2)
Doesn't the fact that there was no local transmission in Taiwan negate whatever effectiveness contact tracing has?
Actually, no. At the start, any infected individuals were contact traced. At this point, anyone coming into the country is quarantined, but there have been cases where someone broke quarantine. At that point, it was paramount to do contact tracing. It was also important for us to do contact tracing to find the origins of the spread. If a case has been found due to reporting, self-reporting, etc.
But most of our success is due to diligence, contact tracing, testing (when needed. Not everyone is tested here
Re: (Score:2)
If Trump were more concerned about appearances than lives, wouldn't that mean that our homegrown test kits would show fewer cases, not more?
No, because the U.S. is using more than one test kit, and there are different types of kits. Also, independent labs would test the kits and state they are not valid so people would stop using them even if the con artist says otherwise. Although in one case, kits with known deficiencies [nytimes.com] are being used after DHS ordered the state to keep using them [usatoday.com].
Re: (Score:3)
No, because the U.S. is using more than one test kit, and there are different types of kits.
Actually, we (taiwan) use more than 1 kit too. I'm not sure exactly how many are developed here, but I'm pretty sure most, if not all, are due to, you know, WHO refusing to acknowledge us or allowing us even observer status. But each person is usually goes through 2 tests. From my limited knowledge, that's standard practice for certain types of testing even before this pandemic to weed out false positives and false negatives (I recall doing the same for a TB test at one point).
Re: (Score:2)
So if I have healthy population I will find more cases if I test more? How do you actually want to determine whether you have a healthy population? How do you find out whether the infection is spreading or ceasing?
That's oxymoron in crystalline form. At best someone can try to twist his babbling and tweak it up to the breaking point only to arrive to something not completely idiotic.
Re: (Score:2)
I stopped reading after the words Trump explained.
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Europe largely halted their testing, and now that they are testing again the number of "cases" are shooting up.
I'm sure you have a reliable source for that statement. Care to share this source with us?
I'm European and I can assure you that testing was not halted.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you have numbers to back that up or are you just taking Trump's word for it?
Re: Cases are mostly meaningless (Score:2)
Actually the African countries like Kenya have it very well under control. They learned with Ebola how to stop an epidemic, and generally address used to handle the deadly diseases that they still have around.
The Westerners are just not used to dangerous diseases. And this one is not deadly enough to make the individuals put enough effort in. So we keep dragging along with the disease staying around.
Re: (Score:2)
Bullshit. Cases turn into clusters. More testing does find cases a few days faster, but it does not make a difference in the number of cases found otherwise.
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On the flip side, dense populations are ideal for the spread of an infectious disease.
Somebody needs to go read "Manufactured Consent" (Score:2)
Information control isn't about stopping information from getting out there, it's about convincing the public to ignore it. Two words, Streisand Effect.