No Implants Needed For Precise Control Deep Into the Brain (ieee.org) 47
An anonymous reader quotes a report from IEEE Spectrum: In April, Guoping Feng and colleagues at MIT, along with [Karl Deisseroth, a neuroscientist and bioengineer at Stanford University] demonstrated a minimally invasive optogenetic system that required drilling a small hole in the skull, then being able to control opsin-expressing neurons six millimeters deep into the brain using blue light. This approach used of a type of opsin that slowly activates neurons in a step-wise manner. In the most recent study [published in the journal Nature Biotechnology], Deisseroth and colleagues sought to instead enable both deep and fast optogenetics without surgery. The Stanford team expressed in the brain cells of mice a powerful new opsin called ChRmine (pronounced like the deep-red color "carmine"), discovered by Deisseroth's group last year in a marine organism. Then, they shined a red light outside the skull and were able to activate neural circuits in the midbrain and brainstem at depths of up to 7 millimeters. With the technique, the scientists turned on and off brain circuits with millisecond precision. "It really worked well, far better than we even expected might be possible," says Deisseroth.
The team then tested the effectiveness of the system. In one instance, they used light to quickly and precisely stop seizures in epileptic mice, and in another to turn on serotonin-producing neurons to promote social behavior in mice. Most optogenetic techniques involve injecting viruses with an opsin gene of choice directly into the brain with a needle. To avoid this, the Stanford team used a type of PHP virus developed at CalTech that can be injected in the blood. The virus then crosses the blood-brain barrier to deliver its payload, an opsin gene, to brain cells. In this case, even the delivery of the gene is noninvasive -- no needle penetrates the brain. Deisseroth's team is now testing the non-invasive technique in fish and collaborating with others to apply it to non-human primates. They're also working with the Seattle-based Allen Institute to develop mouse lines bred with ChRmine in their cells.
The team then tested the effectiveness of the system. In one instance, they used light to quickly and precisely stop seizures in epileptic mice, and in another to turn on serotonin-producing neurons to promote social behavior in mice. Most optogenetic techniques involve injecting viruses with an opsin gene of choice directly into the brain with a needle. To avoid this, the Stanford team used a type of PHP virus developed at CalTech that can be injected in the blood. The virus then crosses the blood-brain barrier to deliver its payload, an opsin gene, to brain cells. In this case, even the delivery of the gene is noninvasive -- no needle penetrates the brain. Deisseroth's team is now testing the non-invasive technique in fish and collaborating with others to apply it to non-human primates. They're also working with the Seattle-based Allen Institute to develop mouse lines bred with ChRmine in their cells.
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The problem with TLAs are that a PHP virus is usually something I'd associate with a web server...
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http://www.chiark.greenend.org... [greenend.org.uk]
Communist, eh? Hmm!
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PHP Virus? (Score:2)
In the blood stream?
Someone needs to add some info cuz us nerds are confused.
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The summary says the payload is delivered with an injection attack.
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Bobby Tables strikes again...
Re: PHP Virus? (Score:2)
Why go to all that trouble? Just drop it in with WordPress...
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I heard you need to execute Javascript on the patient to activate the PHP virus...
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Minimally Invasive (Score:5, Funny)
a minimally invasive optogenetic system that required drilling a small hole in the skull
Is it just me, or do the phrases "minimally invasive" and "drilling a small hole in the skull" not belong in the same sentence? I would consider drilling a hole in my skull pretty damn invasive!
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Well, you still have your skull when you're done... And to be fair, you already have 7 holes in your skull already.
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No, I will have a hole-sizes amount of skull less. Forever.
It's not like it ever closes again.
And if you know the hoops the body jumps through, to get the brain isolated and protected from outside stuff... This like "You still got your Fort Knox 10 foot steel safe wall! And you already have holes in it.". Yeah, but there's a difference between a secured safe door with guards on top, and a sneaky sneak hole drilled in the back!
"a small problem with my parachute" (Score:2)
I had copied the exact same words, to make essentially the same post. That's exactly what I was thinking.
It reminds me of when my friend wrote an article in which he said "there was a small problem with my parachute" during a skydive. I later asked him what the "small problem" was. "It wouldn't open", he said. Terry, when your parachute doesn't open, that's not a SMALL problem.
Re: Minimally Invasive (Score:2)
Some people drill a (larger) hole in their sculls. Completely voluntary; they think it helps them.
I don't remember the details but one of Rogan's guests said he knows a couple who did that (or one of them did). Called them wonderfully eccentric. Joe promptly, and hilariously, freaked out...
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'Trepanning' is a witchdoctor sort of treatment. Humans convince themselves of all sorts of weird.
Which, oddly, there may be a temporary advantage to the tattooing, piercing, stretching, etc. people who don't mind skull mods and implants.
Many of us see no point in brain mods while physics and chemistry are still poorly understood, because completely non-invasive is likely possible, ala Star Trek, with compassionate purpose.
But that will take some time and perhaps biohackers will get something out of invasi
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Also since when is 7mm "deep"? That sounds like it can only detect activity near the surface of the brain.
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If I read TF summary right, the idea isn't that 7mm is deep in the brain; it's that neural circuits *leading to* the deep brain extend to within 7mm of the brain's surface.
This raises the possibility of manipulating functions deep in the brain without direct physical access there.
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The cortex is basically like a large folded-up dinner napkin - about 2mm thick and 2400cm^2. And that's the prime target for interfaces relating to thought, sensory input/output, language, etc etc.
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Depends on what you want to manipulate. The grey matter (cell bodies) that you would target in mammalian cortex is only 2mm thick layer, but it is folded upon itself many times (forming gyri and sulci) - think of a crumbled sheet of paper. Most sensory and motor cortex is accessible within 7 mm of the surface of the brain and that would probably be an ideal target for this sort of approach.
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At a very course level, I think most of the circuitry relating to cognition is near the surface and most of the interior is wiring. That's why the brain is all folded up: it increases the surface-to-volume ratio, so you get more room for thinky bits compared to linky bits (I am not a neuroscientist (obviously)).
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a minimally invasive optogenetic system that required drilling a small hole in the skull
Is it just me, or do the phrases "minimally invasive" and "drilling a small hole in the skull" not belong in the same sentence? I would consider drilling a hole in my skull pretty damn invasive!
I think it's relative to removing a few square mm of skill and inserting a wire probe or carving your brain up.
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I would like to see Elon to do the brain what he did to cars.
A problem with quality control issues from the factory, and out-of-reach to the average American? I think we're already there.
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Then again, is that really a bad thing for its deciples? ;)
With cars, they could hurt others. But here, if a few deciples perish in the holy crusade, I bet they'd praise them as saints. And we'd be off with a globally raised IQ.
What's in there left to damage anyway?
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They'll use whatever is most mature, and pursue many paths at once. But while I really want a Neuralink implant, I'm not holding my breath. This will take ages to work its way through approval even for the most critical cases, let alone for the general public as an outpatient procedure - regardless of what tech approach ends up showing the most promise.
Apply directly to forehead (Score:2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
What a "PHP virus" is at CalTech (Score:5, Informative)
Following the link to the CalTech news article, it turns out that "PHP" viruses are named for the late CalTech biologist Paul H. Patterson [wikipedia.org].
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Never understood why people want viruses named after them. I mean yeah okay your name goes down in history but now ever time someone gets that horrible disease it's got your moniker attached to it.
splitting hairs (Score:3)
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Maybe you should read TFS again.
This is shining a light through a hole in the skull bone to *avoid* the virus.
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Not really. They inject you a virus to make your brain cells receptive to light and then they shine the light through a hole in your skull. A virus is needed to transfer genes to your neurones.
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Well, how much do you care about mice used in research?
As for using it in humans, a lot depends on what you're trying to achieve. We don't really understand the brain well enough to do things like this for therapeutic purposes, unless we're dealing with a problem so severe that inaction would be catastrophic.
Take what doctors call super-refractory status epilepticus -- a epileptic seizure that does not stop and which doesn't respond to ordinary drug treatment. If you don't do something the brain will de
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I agree with you. I was merely correcting the guy about "avoiding virus".
I don't want to be a lab mouse ... (Score:2)
Is all I can think, when reading this.
It's that cognitive dissonance between "It's just a mouse. We need to test it on /something/." and "Mice are higher animals, with measurable feelings and social behavior and care for their young that is no different from love, and everything. Not just genetically quite close to us." that is bugging me.
Frankly, if we want to test, then at least we should stop pussying out, and do it on ourselves. At least then that lifeform can tell us how it suffers. (Deal with it, if y
Only 3 wishes (Score:2)
The fictional Star Trek medical grade non-invasive handheld treatment tool is on the cusp of becoming reality.
The genie in the biology, remote control, opens a door to subversive, coercive and free agency ethical abuse. Here exists treatment that can modify, trigger and change human cerebral centers of the brain. Central actors in behavior, action and emotion that comprise conscious free will.
Careful what you wish for
What should be society’s three wishes?
Women know this (Score:1)
Wonder how many marine organisms we killed off.. (Score:2)
PHP viruses? Time to upgrade to NodeJS (Score:2)
Or even Java or Python. Stop living in the 90's!
This explains ... (Score:2)
The important word Optogenetic (Score:2)
epileptic mice (Score:2)
In one instance, they used light to quickly and precisely stop seizures in epileptic mice,
How do they find these?
My first thought was humorously imagining scientists throwing a rave for a lab full of mice and see which ones have seizures. Sadly I suspect it's something far more sinister like they inject the mice with something horrific to give them the disease.