Chitin Could Be Used To Build Tools and Habitats On Mars, Study Finds (arstechnica.com) 84
A team of scientists from the Singapore University of Technology and Design discovered that, using simple chemistry, the organic polymer chitin -- contained in the exoskeletons of insects and crustaceans -- can easily be transformed into a viable building material for basic tools and habitats. The findings have been published in the journal PLOS ONE. Ars Technica reports: "The technology was originally developed to create circular ecosystems in urban environments," said co-author Javier Fernandez. "But due to its efficiency, it is also the most efficient and scalable method to produce materials in a closed artificial ecosystem in the extremely scarce environment of a lifeless planet or satellite." [T]he authors of the current paper point out that most terrestrial manufacturing strategies that could fit the bill typically require specialized equipment and a hefty amount of energy. However, "Nature presents successful strategies of life adapting to harsh environments," the authors wrote. "In biological organisms, rigid structures are formed by integrating inorganic filler proceed from the environment at a low energy cost (e.g., calcium carbonate) and incorporated into an organic matrix (e.g., chitin) produced at a relatively high metabolic cost."
Fernandez and his colleagues maintain that chitin is likely to be part of any planned artificial ecosystem because it is so plentiful in nature. It's the primary component of fish scales and fungal cell walls, for example, as well as the exoskeletons of crustaceans and insects. In fact, insects have already been targeted as a key source of protein for a possible Martian base. And since the chitin component of insects has limited nutritional value for humans, extracting it to make building materials "does not hamper or compete with the food supply," the authors wrote. "Rather, it is a byproduct of it."
Fernandez and his colleagues maintain that chitin is likely to be part of any planned artificial ecosystem because it is so plentiful in nature. It's the primary component of fish scales and fungal cell walls, for example, as well as the exoskeletons of crustaceans and insects. In fact, insects have already been targeted as a key source of protein for a possible Martian base. And since the chitin component of insects has limited nutritional value for humans, extracting it to make building materials "does not hamper or compete with the food supply," the authors wrote. "Rather, it is a byproduct of it."
We need more insects (Score:4, Funny)
I've talked to Elon Musk and he agrees that for our Mars habitats, we need more insects for the chitin. Maybe giant space ants. One thing is for certain, I for one welcome our new insect overlords.
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Heinlein would have loved this article.
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Type44Q libeled RAH thusly:
Ole' closeted, racist Rob would've appreciated the survival aspect of eating bugs; he would've turned his nose up in disgust at the idea of deliberately depending upon them.
Yep. Good "ole'" Heinlein, whose 1956 juvenile novel Time for the Stars [wikipedia.org] features a teenage protagonist who happens to be black - to which the ONLY reference in the entire book occurs when he looks in a mirror to check to see how presentable he is before his quasi-date with the ingenue.
That, btw, is an example of Heinlein's "holographic" set and setting technique, and I think it's safe to say, is his way of predicting that the Earth society of the time in which the novel is set has
Re: We need more insects (Score:1)
And your evidence that RAH was, as you characterize him, a "closeted racist" is what, exactly ...
Numerous plot lines (Farnham's Freehold comes to mind) but when can I say; I'd read all of his novels by the age of fourteen. RAH worshipped asians and redheads, and type-cast blacks as unimaginative and barbaric villains on at least several occasions that I recall.
RAH was a brilliant man and any non-autistic fool can tell that he would've been a douche in person.
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I demanded:
And your evidence that RAH was, as you characterize him, a "closeted racist" is what, exactly ...
Leading Type44Q to respond:
Numerous plot lines (Farnham's Freehold comes to mind) but when can I say; I'd read all of his novels by the age of fourteen. RAH worshipped asians and redheads, and type-cast blacks as unimaginative and barbaric villains on at least several occasions that I recall.
RAH was a brilliant man and any non-autistic fool can tell that he would've been a douche in person.
Farnham's Freehold was Heinlein's "shoe on the other foot" story about racism. As for these other "numerous" plotlines, cite 'em or they don't count.
And, it's interesting you should claim that any "non-autistic fool" could somehow tell that RAH was, as you so delicately put it, "a douche." As it happens, I spent almost 8 hours running door security for the Red Cross Bloodmobile at Octocon II in Santa Rosa, where Heinlein was co-GoH. HE spent that time sitting in the very back of t
Re: We need more insects (Score:1)
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Sounds like we need some critters from Athas (Dark Sun World). Kanks? Undead war beetles?
Could be difficult. (Score:4)
Re:Could be difficult. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Could be difficult. (Score:4, Insightful)
If you're raising insects, you really don't have an insect supply problem.
There are several insects already used for food which can be raised very rapidly.
Re: Could be difficult. (Score:2)
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They will likely have nuclear reactors at least in the early days, so they'll have waste heat that can be used to keep the mud liquid while using it, and to dry it out once applied.
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Nobody is going to be mixing a big old field of mud. Dirt, water and chitin would be mixed in a pressure vessel and 3D printed. The dry Martian atmosphere would mean the print would dry out and harden right away.
But I'm sure you are right, and none of the scientists or engineers would ever think of the obvious problem that you, a layman, thought of five seconds after reading the summary. Isn't it fun to laugh at those over-educated idiots?
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Nobody is going to be mixing a big old field of mud. Dirt, water and chitin would be mixed in a pressure vessel and 3D printed. The dry Martian atmosphere would mean the print would dry out and harden right away.
Nobody but the OP who suggested it: "they'll have waste heat that can be used to keep the mud liquid while using it, and to dry it out once applied." Maybe you should tell him that.
But I'm sure you are right, and none of the scientists or engineers would ever think of the obvious problem . . .
I unaware of anyone but the OP proposing using liquid mud to cover the structure as the solution. There have been proposals using 3D printing by using dirt as a source material. Again perhaps you should tell him that.
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But that's exactly what they'd do. Waste heat, used to keep the pressure vessel warm enough for the mud to flow. I just read the OP comment. Here it is again, in case it slipped your memory: "They will likely have nuclear reactors at least in the early days, so they'll have waste heat that can be used to keep the mud liquid while using it, and to dry it out once applied."
I don't see where what drinkypoo said is incompatible with using 3d printing techniques, or specifies using liquid mud to cover anything.
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Frankly, I didn't even have a method in mind at all when I said it. I only knew that mud is water soluble, and there's water there, and therefore the logical thing to do is to use water as your solvent whether you're spraying it, spackling it, or rubbing it on by hand. FDM is probably most logical, though.
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The pictures in the paper look like 3D printing. I know there are large scale 3d printing devices here on Earth that use concrete or clay and seem to work pretty well.
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The "average day temperature" is irrelevant anyway.
One main goal/resource for settlement is water/ice. If that is to be found only close to the poles, then it will be damn cold. For heating that is only a minour issue, but for solar energy the polar winter would be a problem. At the poles in winter it is minus 195 degrees F (minus 125 degrees C) (that is average again, as not all winter is polar night).
Then again around the equator the temperature reaches low +C. The question is, would we find water/ice cl
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Like any 3D printing, printing with mud on Mars relies on heating the mud to make it liquid, and then letting it freeze into place. The chitin as a binder is just to make it longer lasting. It's not like letting your kids play in the mud and make mud castles.
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I don't see where what drinkypoo said is incompatible with using 3d printing techniques, or specifies using liquid mud to cover anything. Waste heat would still be useful in keeping the slurry warm enough to 3d print with, and in helping it dry out fast enough for structural stability once printed.
He said "mud". He said "liquid". Specifically he said to "dry it out once applied." He never said anything about 3D printing. He never said making panels.
I think you just made an incorrect assumption and ran with it. Common mistake, I've done it myself.
No, read his reply: "Frankly, I didn't even have a method in mind at all when I said it. I only knew that mud is water soluble, and there's water there, and therefore the logical thing to do is to use water as your solvent whether you're spraying it, spackling it, or rubbing it on by hand. FDM is probably most logical, though."
You strawmanned both his and
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Well, I mean, yeah. He kinda admitted afterwards that he had no real plan in mind. But, you know, the article actually says that's how they'd do it. The pictures are clearly of a 3d printed structure. Just based on drinkypoo's initial comments, I thought he must mean 3d printing becuase that's, you know, what is discussed in the article.
Stupid of me to assume any of you would read the article though. This is Slashdot after all. Not reading the article is kind of a point of pride of Slashdotters.
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Point to the comment that backs up your theory. I just reread the whole thread and I still can't see it. Where in this thread is any comment that says "only mud."
Literally, drinkypoo's first comment doesn't even mention mud. Here it is in its entirety:
"If you're raising insects, you really don't have an insect supply problem.
There are several insects already used for food which can be raised very rapidly."
YOU are the first one to talk about mud, out of the blue, just suddenly butting in to respond to that c
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Point to the comment that backs up your theory. I just reread the whole thread and I still can't see it. Where in this thread is any comment that says "only mud."
Drinkypoo [slashdot.org]: "They will likely have nuclear reactors at least in the early days, so they'll have waste heat that can be used to keep the mud liquid while using it, and to dry it out once applied."
Are you an idiot or just blind?
YOU are the first one to talk about mud, out of the blue, just suddenly butting in to respond to that comment with "I donâ(TM)t know if mud would be the best material on Mars considering the average day temperature is -81F."
I responded to the wrong comment of his. This is the comment [slashdot.org] I meant to reply: " If I had to pick something to do this job on Mars I'd use UV-hardening epoxy, and then I'd cover it with mud."
BUT he clearly responded to my comment about mud with the comment above. He didn't question
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That's not Drinkypoo's first comment though. That was his reply AFTER you'd mentioned mud. It's not my fault if you can't keep your fucking dumb-ass replies straight.
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That's not Drinkypoo's first comment though. That was his reply AFTER you'd mentioned mud.
You said: "Point to the comment that backs up your theory. I just reread THE WHOLE THREAD and I still can't see it., Where in this thread is any comment that says "only mud.""
You asked where he asked about mud and I pointed it out. His VERY FIRST REPLY to my comment about mud was to talk about mud himself. Did he show surprise that I mentioned it? Did he question it? Was he: "WTF are you talking about?" No, discusses my objections Did you read the whole thread or did you lie about reading the whole threa
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In Siberia they've built massive dams using nothing but mud, melted and spread in the winter to freeze instantly into an impervious almost rock-hard structure. The problem now is that with the unforeseen warming in the Arctic what was previously permafrost may become unstable, but that's not so much an issue on Mars, since any terraforming will take centuries to warm the climate above freezing.
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The problem now is that with the unforeseen^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H long predicted (and actually happening since 20 years) warming in the Arctic what was previously permafrost may^H^H^H does melt away and becomes mud become unstable^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
FTFY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Documentary voice is french but has english subtitles and the main character portrait is speaking mostly english.
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In Siberia they've built massive dams using nothing but mud, melted and spread in the winter to freeze instantly into an impervious almost rock-hard structure.
Sure Siberia gets cold but it does not have the lows or temp swings that Mars has. Also building a dam horizontally laying down thick blocks/sheets is not the same as building walls vertically for habitats with thinner walls.
Re: Could be difficult. (Score:1)
Not convinced (Score:2)
I don't see how a biological compound no matter how tough will cope for any significant length of time with the high intensity UV and oxidising perchlorates found on the martian surface.
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That's cool. But those fuckin' magnets, how do they work?
Re:Not convinced (Score:5, Interesting)
by being alive.
if we can engineer fungi that use chitin, build a framework for it to grow through, keep it fed from the inside, and have it grow, die, and its remains be the structure on which the next generation grow. structures can be slowly expanded by expanding the framework. Organic architecture, built on its own remains and always in a state of regeneration. And its food supply would be the waste the colonists produce.
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You're alive - go stand on the martian surface naked except with breathing gear and see how long you last.
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If he manages to plant potatoes and does not forget to enter and exit through different hatches every time, he'll last until the Chinese mission gets there.
Re: Not convinced (Score:1)
...he'll last until the Chinese mission gets there.
So they'll be hungry for something besides bugs?
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That doesn't really mean anything; There are a lot of living things on Earth that live in conditions that would kill a naked human. Not all life is equally vulnerable to what we would consider "harsh environments."
=Smidge=
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All biological proteins are vulnerable to intense UV and string oxidising agents. Chitin is no different. It would decay in weeks.
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If you're going to use additives and/or cloak it in something else you might as well just use man made materials to start with and be done with it.
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> All biological proteins are vulnerable to intense UV and string oxidising agents.
And that's why nothing on this planet can survive in direct sunlight for more than a few weeks...
=Smidge=
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Plants are alive you twat - they have ongoing repair mechanisms. Ever seen what happens to a dead plant?
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Chitin itself is not alive. In the absence of decomposing microbes and fungus, that stuff lasts quite some time. I don't suppose it impossible to engineer an appropriately thick wall of the material to withstand the Martian environment.
Composite it with calcium carbonate like a mollusk shell and you have a damn fine building material. Have you ever seen what happens to a dead mollusk shell? Not a hell of a lot absent mechanical wear.
=Smidge=
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Unlikely, even in Thailand, despite rain season and humid air depending on region a carcass of a beetle survives years (we have them there as charms hanging from strings on the balcony).
In a dry environment like Mars they basically would last forever.
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Does thailand have UV light levels 100 times higher than other countries and have a strong oxidising agent in the soil? No, didn't think so.
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if we can engineer fungi that use chitin, build a framework for it to grow through, keep it fed from the inside, and have it grow, die, and its remains be the structure on which the next generation grow. structures can be slowly expanded by expanding the framework. Organic architecture, built on its own remains and always in a state of regeneration. And its food supply would be the waste the colonists produce.
Do you want the bugs from Starship Troopers? Because this is how you get the bugs from Starship Troopers.
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It's hard to see how a biological compound can stand up to the weather here on Earth. But we make houses out of trees, and protect the wood with paint.
If I had to pick something to do this job on Mars I'd use UV-hardening epoxy, and then I'd cover it with mud.
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Perchlorates are themselves an organic compound, so obviously *some* organic compounds have no problems with UV. In fact I've never heard of seashells photo-degrading in sunlight, so it seems likely chitin doesn't particularly care about UV. And if you're using sand as the "filler", that should be quite effective at shielding the internal organic layers that are actually holding things together.
Worst-case scenario, you put a coat of UV-blocking paint on the outside and call it good. In fact, it shouldn't
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Say what?
A perchlorate is a chemical compound containing the perchlorate ion, ClO4-. The majority of perchlorates are commercially produced salts.
That is not organic!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
PS: What's the story with html tags sub & sup ??
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My bad - I misread Cl as CI. Should have been a fricking obvious mistake what with the "chlorate" bit, I must have been fading before dinner.
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You got beetle breath (Score:2)
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I think Mars will have social isolation don't pat. But outside activities will be difficult.
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Na, just the obligatory face hugger.
MIT have a group working on Chitin (Score:5, Informative)
There's a documentary series on netflix, called Abstract. In there is an episode devoted to MIT and Neri Oxman where they use Chitin as a material for building various structures, if I recall she is an MIT prof who has an architectural background, and its quite fascinating the possibilities of these kind of materials offer. Not just for Mars, but also for environmentally sound constructions at bit closer to home.
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Given the hideous carbon footprint of cement, an alternative binding agent would definitely have a lot of potential.
Having eaten crab and lobster though, the biggest problem I anticipate though is the difficulty in separating the chitin from the meat, particularly if you're trying to leave the meat in a state where people would want to eat it. And of course there's also the minor issue of convincing people to eat insects on a massive enough scale to produce chitin in quantities to rival concrete - though p
Insects are also a delicious food source. (Score:2)
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* probably not the flavor you wanted
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I gotta admit, I read that as "Chitlins Could Be Used To Build Tools and Habitats on Mars" and thought, "There's a use for them. Lord knows you can't eat them..."
Astronauts need food and building materials... (Score:2)
Mechanical failure... (Score:2)
Re: Mechanical failure... (Score:2)
Very useful (Score:2)
This will be extremely useful as soon as we can establish colonies of giant lobsters on Mars.
Fortunately, the Japanese have made a documentary about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Sid Meier Predicted This (Score:3)
What could possibly go wrong (Score:2)
Sure, in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. So, I, for one, welcome our new chitinous overlords!
Makes good armor (Score:1)
Genetic modification probably needed here (Score:2)
If chitin is an ideal material to work with, producing it to scale is probably best engineered into a photosynthetic single-cell organism. Why not attempt to genetically modify an algae, like chlorella, to produce chitin instead of cellulose? This sounds wild, but the metabolic requirements will be lower than shrimp.
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The summary says it's already a primary component of fungal cell walls, so no genetic engineering needed (other than perhaps to increase yield)
If you're planning to eat insects though (and pretty much any colonization effort really should - they're a radically more efficient meat source than any other animal, and even a better protein source than many protein-rich plants, while being able to eat the parts of plants that we can't), then recycling their shells potentially makes sense, *if* you can figure out
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"It's already a primary component of fungal cell walls, so no genetic engineering needed"
But that's just it. Fungi are decomposers, algae are autotrophs. The most direct path from energy source to production would make this especially viable. The next option might be to saturate a medium material with algae, and then let fungi feed on the matter - rather more like the way you imagine.
Chitin might not even be needed in quantity. Sand and bacteria and urea can be used to bind sand grains into a solid buil
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That's a good point, the fewer steps in production, the greater the efficiency, and the less that can go wrong.
Though there is something to be said for having a much larger baseline of food-and-air production that also fuels your industrial processes - then if catastrophe eliminates much of your baseline production, you hopefully still have enough to ensure survival so long as you mostly suspend industry.
There's a growing number of potential binding agents being suggested - in fact I seem to recall another
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