Scientists Say a Mind-Bending Rhythm In the Brain Can Act Like Ketamine (npr.org) 64
In mice and one person, scientists were able to reproduce out-of-body experiences often associated with ketamine by inducing certain brain cells to fire together in a slow-rhythmic fashion. The findings have been published in the journal Nature. NPR reports: "There was a rhythm that appeared and it was an oscillation that appeared only when the patient was dissociating," says Dr. Karl Deisseroth, a psychiatrist and neuroscientist at Stanford University. Dissociation is a brain state in which a person feels separated from their own thoughts, feelings and body. It is common in people with some mental illnesses, or who have experienced a traumatic event. It can also be induced by certain drugs, including ketamine and PCP (angel dust). Deisseroth's lab made the discovery while studying the brains of mice that had been given ketamine or other drugs that cause dissociation. The team was using technology that allowed them to monitor the activity of cells throughout the brain
"It was like pointing a telescope at a new part of the sky," Deisseroth says. "And something really unexpected jumped out at us." What jumped out was a very distinct rhythm produced by cells in an area involved in learning and navigation. Those cells were firing three times each second. To learn more, the team used a tool called optogenetics, which Deisseroth helped invent. It uses light to control the firing of specific cells in the brain. As a result, the team was able to artificially generate this rhythm in the brains of mice. We could see, right before our eyes, dissociation happening," Deisseroth says.
"It was like pointing a telescope at a new part of the sky," Deisseroth says. "And something really unexpected jumped out at us." What jumped out was a very distinct rhythm produced by cells in an area involved in learning and navigation. Those cells were firing three times each second. To learn more, the team used a tool called optogenetics, which Deisseroth helped invent. It uses light to control the firing of specific cells in the brain. As a result, the team was able to artificially generate this rhythm in the brains of mice. We could see, right before our eyes, dissociation happening," Deisseroth says.
Out of body mice (Score:5, Interesting)
How exactly to you ask mice if they had an out-of-body experience?
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Presumably the pattern of neuron firing matches it? Researchers tend to be pretty good at working this kind of stuff out
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You say it as if "patterns of neuron firings" are a thing with a definite meaning. They are not.
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But this disassociation thing sounds a bit frightening.
Why would anyone willing WANT to enter a state like that?
I mean, I like being "me"....I'd not like to lose that.
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It is the first step to immortality, baby. Once you can detach yourself from your mortal hardware, https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Why would anyone willing WANT to enter a state like that?
I mean, I like being "me"....I'd not like to lose that.
Drug free anesthesia, perhaps? If this could eliminate the possibility of death under anesthesia, then good on it. Also, just because YOU don't see a need/desire for this, doesn't mean it's useless to others.
Good on you if you like being you and don't do drugs or alcohol. You keep that up, but let others decide for themselves, OK?
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Saying that, for all I know, the scientists behind this research have already covered all that.
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explain trump
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Fuck off with your spam, dipshit.
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Dude, fucking off is exactly what she wants, do not engage her!
Re:Out of body mice (Score:4, Funny)
Mice are actually the smartest animals, many outside observers don't know about the mice. They long ago knew of Earth's planned destruction and tried to communicate this to humans who misinterpreted it as "amusing attempts to punch football or whistle for tidbits."
Re: Out of body mice (Score:2)
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The mice wanted to know the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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Apparently they look at the brain activity and see that the locations where it is most active are similar to a human having an out of body experience. Who knows what it feels like for the mouse.
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How exactly to you ask mice if they had an out-of-body experience?
LSD, man!
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They observed how mice behave on Ketamine and then observed if they behaved the same when their brain was being stimulated with optogenetics. Here are the specific behaviors they monitored:
We next conducted extensive behaviour testing in mice, beginning with reflexive (paw-flick) and affective/self-protective (paw-licking) responses to aversive stimuli (hot-plate test). Whereas the administration of ketamine did not reduce reflexive responses (paw-flick)—revealing robustly preserved sensory-detection and motor capabilities—it did abolish affective/emotional (paw-lick)
and motivational (jump-to-escape) defensive behaviours at doses of 25 and 50 mg kg1, with similar effects on rearing and behavioural latency.
Doesn't exactly demonstrate that the mice were experiencing disassociation the way we do, but it is as close as you can get with an animal model.
The absolutely didn't determine it by looking at neuron firing patterns like other commenters suggested as that would have been circular reasoning. The major point of this study
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How exactly to you ask mice if they had an out-of-body experience?
You ask them micely.
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Because the scientists also have an out of body experience in which they can talk to the out of body mice and have deep conversations about the nature of the universse and whether the quickie mart is still open this time of night.
RTFA: they tried it on a person too (Score:2)
You're right the mice didn't talk. But they saw a pattern they had seen in humans who were dissociating. Through luck and networking they found a patient on whom they could provide a stimulation comparable to the mice. And that person reported 'out-of-body' experience whenever they performed the stimulation.
slang: "Getting Leary" (Score:4, Informative)
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People Who Dissociate Can Tell When Others Are (Score:2)
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"I did talk with her gently and at a respectable distance". So can Eliza, the AI written in the 1960's which demonstrated how much of human conversation is merely rote, polite responses to whatever people say.
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Tell me about your mother.
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Someone even programmed a version of Eliza into an Emacs utility. Someone else created a "Zippy the Pinhead" random quote generator. It was possible to crosslink them so Eliza was chatting and listening very intently to Zippy the Pinhead. It was very enlightening to take the transcript and compare it to that of someone attempting to treat schozephrenia or dementia with Rogerian therapy.
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Comment Subject: (Score:2)
"Mind Bending Rhythm" is really direct electrical stimulation of the brain using implants. Fucking bullshit headlines.
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Not using implants. Its an optogenetic process. Basically the gene modify a mouse so neurons can activate when you shine a light on them. Then they pulse light into it (apparently around 3 times a second) and the effect is produced. Practical applications on humans are not clear, obvious we aren't optogeneticly enhanced, but to be clear they aren't wiring these mice to electrodes.
Also Re the term "rhythm", thats right there in the name of the paper "Deep posteromedial cortical rhythm in dissociation"
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They didn't mention it but... (Score:4, Interesting)
... its the same sort of thing a lot of ultra-religious people describe. And lets be honest, they tend to be a bit wierd to start with so no surprise if their brains are malfunctioning at a basic level too.
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Virtual +1 LOL
Oblig... (Score:2)
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I see you're finally giving yourself a fakescore of 5 instead of 4. It means your confidence in yourself is growing! Keep it up, buddy!
slow rythm (Score:2)
..inducing certain brain cells to fire together in a slow-rhythmic fashion.
So, a drumming circle?
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The last time I meditated with a drumming circle, I saw Kahless!
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The last time I meditated with a drumming circle, I saw Kahless!
You are fortunate to be blessed to die a glorious Warrior's Death in battle!!!
I am envious.
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Today is a good day to di{#`%${%&`+'${`%&NO CARRIER
Far-out (Score:2)
A way to space out without buying acid. Goovy baby!
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The last time someone gave me bad acid, I tried to use Alka-Seltzer, Gaviscon, Maalox, Pepto-Bismol, Rolaids, Tums... nothing worked.
Okay... (Score:1)
I'm going to assume "angel dust" is the "street name" for it. What's the point of telling us that bit of information? Either you're trying to make it easier for readers to ask for it from drug dealers, or you think drug dealers are too dumb to know the two different names for their own shit.
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Angel dust was the common name for it when it was more popular with people jumping off buildings (thinking they could fly) in the 70's.
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Then I guess R. Kelly was 26 years late.
Not news. This has been know since decades. (Score:5, Interesting)
Robert Allan Monroe [wikipedia.org] discovered the hemi-sync effect a few decades back and did some extensive brain research with that. It's gentleman fringe science, but the effect is undeniable.There is an extensive line of sounds for brain hemi-sync that triggers OBEs among other things. You can get them here [hemi-sync.com] (not affiliated).
I practiced "Astral Projection" for about 6 years daily as a teenager and young adult. Never did drugs, just the occasional Hemi-Sync Sounds, but most of it was "simple" mediation practice (Zen and some other stuff). Not easy and takes patience and practice. I finally got so far that I could block out sounds. I was always pushing for an OBE. One day I finally got there. "Peeling/flowing out of the body", "Buzzung/Humming sensation" the "tunnel" ... it was all there. Absolutely extatic. And scary as hell once I noticed "Oh, fuck, this is it, I'm leaving my body. ... Nope, not happening." Popped out, sat up, gasped in fear and joy and never attempted it again. That's what an extrasensory wuss I am. LOL.
Again, no external drugs, just practice. The difference in consciousness is about the same as between semi-lucid dreaming and regular awake state of mind. Up that the next level, you get the healthy non-drug OBE. It's mind-blowing and extremely soothing at the same time. I'm now 50 and think I might pick it up again and maybe go back there and further. It changes your outlook on life and death quite notably.
If you're looking to "expand your consciousness" and steer clear of drugs like I do, I highly recommend giving it a try.
My 2 eurocents.
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Well it is all very questionable in terms of materialism, but the world is maybe stranger than we imagine. There's a famous NDE who went on to co-produce some holosync type stuff. The difference with this particular NDE is that he was an Academic and Brain Surgeon and didn't believe any of this stuff until he had a "shutdown" of his own brain due to a severe infection, which, as far as he knows, and his colleagues know, should have meant that he would not have been capable of even hallucinating anything, be
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Lucid Dreams can be a stepping stone to full OBEs (Out-of-Body Experience).
Robert's colleague, Tom Campbell, wrote THE book of what he thought the OBE meant called My Big Toe: A Trilogy Unifying Philosophy, Physics, and Metaphysics: Awakening, Discovery, Inner Workings [amazon.com]. T.C. mentions they tried all sorts of things such as each isolating each person in a Faraday cage, their discovery of how Binaural tones effected some people, different frequencies, etc. Quite a fascinating read -- if somewhat dry.
Some p
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Nothing in this research had anything to do with the effects of audible sounds on the brain. It was about neurons firing at a certain rhythms which is strongly associated with symptoms of disassociation.
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There is a chain of neurons in the superior olivary complex [wikipedia.org] of the brain that decodes the phase difference in sound from the left ear to the right ear. Normally it helps in determining the direction of a sound, but will also be stimulated by a binaural beat frequency, thus neurons firing at certain rhythms.
What's the rhythm? (Score:2, Insightful)
I've been reading about resurrection chambers1 built as far back as eight thousand years ago and some of them are purposefully set up to resonate between 90-125hz because those specific frequencies can cause the mind to disassociate from the body. I wonder if those frequencies are the frequencies these particular synapses are firing at?
1: Resurrection chambers were places that people would go to to meditate for multiple days before re-emerging/being reborn as if from death. Apparently that particular ritu
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The summary says
Of course, with /. nowadays you can't assume that the summary has any relation to the article, but I'm not so new here that I'll read the article to check.
Higher frequency navigation? (Score:2)
So, if this part of the brain associated with navigation is firing at a three Hertz rate, what would happen if you could reconfigure it to fire at a higher frequency? One requirement for precise mobile robot navigation is knowing its position at a high enough rate and off-the-shelf GPS modules can give a position at 20 Hz. If it's too slow, the robot will miss important cues like turning too late. So if a human's rate were increased, would we be more precise in our movements? What if it turns out that e
I think I might have experienced this (Score:2)
This is good news for my Semuta Music band (Score:2)
Now all I need is to plant an elacca wood orchard.