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Science

Individualized Circadian Clocks: New Research Suggests Not Everyone Needs 8 Hours of Sleep (time.com) 85

Posted by EditorDavid from the beating-the-clock dept.
Time magazine reports on is a big scientific advance: "the understanding that our bodies often operate according to different clocks." Although the federal government recommends that Americans sleep seven or more hours per night for optimal health and functioning, new research is challenging the assumption that sleep is a one-size-fits-all phenomenon. Scientists have found that our internal body clocks vary so greatly that they could form the next frontiers of personalized medicine...

Human sleep is largely a mystery. We know it's important; getting too little is linked to heightened risk for metabolic disorders, Type 2 diabetes, psychiatric disorders, autoimmune disease, neurodegeneration and many types of cancer. "It's probably true that bad sleep leads to increased risks of virtually every disorder," says Dr. Louis Ptacek, a neurology professor at the University of California, San Francisco... The ideal sleep duration has long been thought to be universal. "There are many people who think everyone needs eight to eight and a half hours of sleep per night and there will be health consequences if they don't get it," says Ptacek. "But that's as crazy as saying everybody has to be 5 ft. 10 in. tall. It's just not true..."

About a decade ago, Ptacek's wife Ying-Hui Fu discovered the first human gene linked to natural short sleep; people who had a rare genetic mutation seemed to get the same benefits from six hours of sleep a night as those without the mutation got from eight hours. In 2019, Fu and Ptacek discovered two more genes connected to natural short sleep, and they'll soon submit a paper describing a fourth, providing even more evidence that functioning well on less sleep is a genetic trait...

Doctors once dismissed short sleepers as depressed or suffering from insomnia. Yet short sleepers may actually have an edge over everyone else. Research is still early, but Fu has found that besides being more efficient at sleep, they tend to be more energetic and optimistic and have a higher tolerance for pain than people who need to spend more time in bed. They also tend to live longer.
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Individualized Circadian Clocks: New Research Suggests Not Everyone Needs 8 Hours of Sleep More

Individualized Circadian Clocks: New Research Suggests Not Everyone Needs 8 Hours of Sleep

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  • Six hours is usually good for me. I just need 8 hours between shifts to have time to shower and shave.

  • I've always thrived on 6.5 hrs sleep. Retired now, with no alarms and irregular bedtime, I still rarely sleep much more than 6 hrs.

    • Can you try if you IQ goes up when you sleep for 8h for at least 1-2 weeks?

      I'd be curious if there is a correlation, as I suspect one.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sleeves ( 939679 )
        Not sure how I'd establish an improved IQ. I have no idea what my IQ is. I do feel smarter after a few beers, but that hasn't translated into quantitatively positive results. Also, once I wake up I'm not able to fall back asleep (except for a pee break in the middle of the night) so I couldn't check your hypothesis without ingesting some sort of sleeping aid.

  • Both ways? Long sleepers? (Score:3)

    by tgibson ( 131396 ) on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:56PM (#60407879) Homepage

    Perhaps also some people require 9 or 10 hours.

  • I just need 10 hours.
    • I need 10 to 12 to feel really good.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cusco ( 717999 )

        If I sleep more than 8 hours I feel like crap. Six to seven works for me. My wife needs more, so frequently weekends I'll get up early, feed the chickens and the fish, and sit on the couch for a couple of hours.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by rtb61 ( 674572 )

          I can cheat and get by with zero hours sleep, through meditation but it is not as satisfying as sleep, no dreams, so it leaves me feeling a bit hollow and funky and no I do not snore when I am meditating ;). Normally six hours is fine but really the period of sleep is tied to how tired I am, more tired and more sleep, less tired less sleep, prefer to think slow but not inclined to sleep, meditation for around 4 hours at a time.

  • Pendulum (Score:3, Insightful)

    by fermion ( 181285 ) on Sunday August 16, 2020 @04:59PM (#60407895) Homepage Journal
    Everyone once in while someone comes up with innovative and exciting research that efficient good humans donâ(TM)t need sleep. This is great for employers who want to schedule random shifts. It is a defect in you, that you are lazy, not that everyone canâ(TM)t work random shifts

    But then we have multiple studies that sleep is not just psychology but physiological. It allows every organ and system to reset.

    A single study is nothing but a guess. No one think every needs 8 hours of sleep all the time. It is more complicated. Teens likely need sleep later in the day than older adults, that is why high school should start after 8, even 9. Middle age often requires lees sleep, or a return to naps.

    We need to make sure we are not using single data point to prevent people from doing what they need to stay healthy.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      that is why high school should start after 8, even 9

      What about the teens that are up and ready to go at 7 AM? Must they be forced to conform to some arbitrary standard? I know. We could have flexible school hours. The early risers could start and leave earlier and those that prefer late hours could start at 10 AM but stay until 5 PM.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by fermion ( 181285 )
        Which is precisely the. point. Humans cannot be generalized. We can find a medium, average behavior, but it is a spectrum. I noticed during the remote learning in April that many teens were most comfortable learning after 10 or 11. But some will be best earlier or later. In college when I became more functional in the early hours I would do homework for a few hours before my 10 oâ(TM)clock class. With work at home I get a lot down at night.

      • What about those that ain't at 11am? They are now forced to conform to some arbitrary standard.

        I just love it when people who keep berating me for being the way I am to get a dose of their own medicine. Like the extroverts that kept badgering me about having to go out and meet people do now. How does it feel to be force to do something that makes you miserable?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Falos ( 2905315 )

      Sleep is requisite. If nature could weasel out of spending so much time unconscious and defenseless, it would have already. For some reason, it has remained mandatory.

      Obviously needs will vary, no surprise (and a shitty headline) to someone extrapolating other human variations.

      TFS's "free hours" is a dubious way to present it, if it was optimal it would already be here. However, some things have changed over the last million/thousand years, and I allow it's possible the mutation takes advantage of new meta

      • Not necessarily. Energy requirements go down when you sleep. Also, in the ore-electric era, it was dangerous trying to walk around at night with eyes adapted for daytime vision.

        Our current situation is a trade off that gives us the best chance for survival under the conditions we evolved.

        We're not the only animals that make he same trade off. Look how many hours dogs and cats sleep. Or birds.

    • We need to make sure we are not using single data point to prevent people from doing what they need to stay healthy.

      Our entire way of life is predicated on preventing people from doing what they need to stay healthy. And the return to the office provides incontrovertible proof that those in power don't give a single rat's shit about our health.

  • I usually get 4-5 hours sleep

    Before Victoria had its second lockdown, I'm up about 3am for a 40 minute run, then the rest of the morning to get work done uninterrupted.

    After the daughter gets up - I only have to check emails once an hour, and I'm free to get other things done if needed.

    Before the lockdown - I would go to work about 4am

    works perfect for me

  • As crazy as saying that a person's sex has no bearing on their ability as a brain surgeon or teacher or racing driver or computer programmer.

    But it's almost illegal to deny that fact.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by ludux ( 6308946 )
      Because it's factually wrong and encourages often violent hate?

      • No it is not?

        Why would the differences between sexes somehow exclude brains? Ever heard of specialization.
        I'm man, and I know I am inferior in certain tasks. So what? I can't do math like Richard Feynman either. And? And women can't do other tasks aswell. Nobody cares. We're not insecure trembling losers.

        YOU just imply "differences == inferior". That's *your* brain having those thoughts, mate! Yet you project it onto us. Which couldn't be more prejudiced.
        AND you imply stating the above equals violent hate d

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dfghjk ( 711126 )

          and I actually thought you were an intelligent poster.

          It's a pretty transparent straw man you've got here. Why not actually address what was posted rather than some nebulous "differences" bullshit?

          • You thought he was an intelligent poster? Why???

            • Most morons on this site, like you, dear person in my foe list for that exact reason, are so dumb they think they are smart again. And in Murica and this site, they pose the majority for most of the time. So they think they are rigt too.

              You morons gaslighted me half my life by calling people with brains stupid because you were too fuckin retarded to get it on any level above tucker bar cracker barrel talk.

              But ever since I got hard evidence that it was really just you being so fucking stupid, by meeting comm

              • Case in point: Morons will point to that one typo in my comment, anc cling to it.

                Other case in point: If you thought Revolver by Guy Richie was stupid and made no sense, congratulations, you are stupid. That film.is a great way to separate the wise and smart from the stupid and dumbfucks.

          • I'm sorry, I actually thought that was what he thinks, and still do. So no intent of using a straw man on my part.

            I do see good arguments in my post. But none in yours. So ... are you projecting?

            It just isn't an more complicated. And going specific is bad too. It's really just ... "There are differences. So what?".

            Maybe you should read it again, with the mood of today, and I hope it is closer to what I actually said than what it felt like for you the last time

        • A person's abilities depend on their upbringing, education and affinities. Gender only enters the equation as part of how they will be raised and educated in some societies.

          But here's a curious tidbit for you: Most great computer-related mathematicians I know are gay. Not even talking about Turing, but it's stunning to see how many great cryptographers are leaning that way. Same for programmers, a statistically significant amount of really great computer programmers is at the very least bisexual.

          Why? I rea

          • "A person's abilities depend on their upbringing, education and affinities. Gender only enters the equation as part of how they will be raised and educated in some societies."

            Just no. This is a lie and you know it.

  • because we have a nasty habit in this country of taking people with exceptional abilities (say the ability to function 100% on 2-4 hours a night of sleep) and treating them as the norm, such that anyone who can't or doesn't do that just that is viewed as lazy and worthless.

    I mean, you should have just as easily headlined this as "Individualized Circadian Clocks: New Research Suggests some people need more than 8 hours of sleep" and then also mentioned that some need less.
  • ...And feel like a wreck unless I somehow manage to get more, but it usually takes 3+ hours to get back to sleep. Getting up just ensures that I feel like a wreck. Even if I do get a few more hours of sleep, I'm still falling asleep over and over during the day. Sleep studies showed some hypopneas, but were corrected with a mandibular adjustment splint years ago, and that my oxygen levels are now normal, but problems persist. I don't know what to do...

  • Isn't pretty much EVERYTHING along a curve? (Score:3)

    by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:43PM (#60408041) Journal

    I mean, when researchers said "people need 8 hours of sleep" I never assumed that applied to every single human out there. I assumed that was just a rough average, and likely there were people that could get by on 6 hours a day just fine, or need 9+ ...did they REALLY think that there was some magically singular number that would apply to all humans?

    Because that would be pretty dumb.

    • I'll write something here that no research will ever be able to prove wrong: all living humans need between zero seconds and 23.9344696 hours of sleep every day.

  • I've got a theory (Score:5, Insightful)

    by marcle ( 1575627 ) on Sunday August 16, 2020 @05:44PM (#60408055)

    People are different. We're all individuals, and as individuals we go through different stages of life. Our bodies, our metabolism, and our physical and psychological needs change over time.
    With all these variables in play, my theory states that the optimum timing and amount of sleep for each of us varies widely from one person to the next, and even for the same person, it varies over time.
    There, and I didn't even have to do a study or write a dumb article.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by yarbo ( 626329 )

      How much do they change? When is it the longest and shortest? How long is too long? Is there a too short? Can those who need the most sleep cut back through medical, psychological, or other interventions?

      This research group actually found genes that impact the amount of sleep people need. Understanding these genes may provide a way to answer some of these questions.

      Your post answers no questions and helps no one.

  • Biphasic sleep was very common before the advent of industrialization and electric lights.
    Now, in the days of work from home, I sleep from 11pm to 2 am and from 6-8am and take one or two 20 minute naps as needed.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

  • They "worked normally", sure. Their normal was just one of a lower IQ.

    I'd love to see this researched, especially related to those genes.

  • Should be, "yet another study confirms that not everyone needs 8 hours of sleep, the latest in 20 years of such studies that have had similar results"

  • Anecdotal Evidence (Score:3)

    by Jarik C-Bol ( 894741 ) on Sunday August 16, 2020 @08:17PM (#60408477)
    In the best form of Anecdotal evidence, I've drawn up a theory that a big portion of a person's sleep cycle is 'locked in' around the ages of 18-25 as the brain is finalizing a lot of its maturing. I formulated this theory on the observation of myself and my peers through college and the following 10 years. I noticed that the schedule I kept in college, which was go to bed at midnight, and wake up around 8, (I selected my classes to allow for this behavior) has been, despite 10 years of trying to adjust it, my body's 'default' circadian rhythm. Prior to college, living under my parents roof, I operated on a cycle of 9pm to 6am my entire childhood and teenage years.
    After asking around among my peers and friends from college, I've found that most of them also default to the sleep patterns they set in the same age/time frame given the option.
    Obviously, this is all anecdotal, but it sort of stands to reason that the patterns being used as the brain is finishing up development would end up being encoded as a more permanent setting.
    Of course, due to the fact that I have to work, and my work schedule is by all definitions, deranged, I don't actually get to abide by my natural rhythm, and spend a great deal of time vaguely exhausted and miserable. It does make me wish there was a way to go back and adjust my behavior to allow for a more useful circadian rhythm.
  • Thanks for the interesting and useful article! It seems to me that it was created by those who came up with that for higher positions you need a dissertation, and you sit all night long writing it instead of sleeping. I only withstood a couple of months in this mode and then decided that I would rather pay for a dissertation help service [dissertation-service.org] than go crazy from lack of sleep.

  • "interrupted sleep" (Score:4, Informative)

    by Vinegar Joe ( 998110 ) on Sunday August 16, 2020 @09:20PM (#60408605)

    Up until the Industrial Age, "interrupted sleep" was the norm. Check A. Roger Ekirch's book "At Day's Close: Night in Times Past"

    • And, lo and behold, the biggest advances in human history came afterwards.

    • That's not even uncommon today, though most people who wake up after 4 hours of sleep don't know what to do, most lie awake until they fall asleep again. I had that for a while when our kids were small. Only realised later that it's nothing unusual, had no problems to cope with it. Supposedly that's also how they got big families when living with one living room and one bedroom (or just all together in one cave), doing the naughty at night when the kids are asleep...
    • Or simply Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]
  • Offer me a million dollars, I still couldn't sleep 8 hours a night. For me 5-6 hours has always been the max, try for more and I'll simply lie there awake, it doesn't matter how dark and quiet the room or how calm the mood. I have about zero trouble falling asleep, even after staring at a supposedly blue-light computer screen for hours beforehand, I'm out like a light in 5 minutes, as long as I don't try to sleep more than comes naturally, i.e 5-6 hours.

  • No matter how hard I try I cannot sleep a long time. I just wake up, usually around six hours. A short night is 5, sometimes I sleep 7 when I am able to sleep in but that's super rare. I've always wondered if I'm somehow suffering because of this, as all the info about sleep says you need more.

    I did sleep more as a teenager, but I literally cannot anymore. I just wakeup.

    I'm also a morning person, and usually I get up around 5am :)

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