US Reaches $1 Billion Deal For Doses of Potential Johnson & Johnson Vaccine (thehill.com) 126
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Hill: The Trump administration on Wednesday announced a deal worth approximately $1 billion for the manufacturing of 100 million doses of a potential coronavirus vaccine from Johnson & Johnson that the federal government would then own. The move is the latest in a series of agreements the Trump administration has made with several companies making potential coronavirus vaccines. The goal, through the Operation Warp Speed program, is to make bets on a wide array of vaccine candidates with the hope that at least one and maybe more will end up proving safe and effective through clinical trials. The companies will begin manufacturing the doses even before the results are in to accelerate the process. Johnson & Johnson said its goal is to have 1 billion doses made available throughout 2021, if the vaccine proves to be safe and effective.
safe and effective? (Score:5, Funny)
Just stop testing it. That way they won't find any problems
Trump (Score:3, Insightful)
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Came here to say this... he seems to want a piece of every pie that passes under his nose.
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Came here to say this... he seems to want a piece of every pie that passes under his nose.
Considering how badly he's failed at being a businessman, he needs to grift money wherever he can.
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When has he tried being a businessman? It's always been grift. All of his businesses have been some type of scam, at best massively overpromising on product and then grossly underdelivering.
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Code Orange seems to have chosen Jared as his heir apparent, so maybe "all" he'll demand is that Jared be given a seat on their board so he can take credit for the work.
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Goes without saying. He's skimming some off the TikTok "deal" too, right?
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Unrelated (Score:5, Insightful)
Those two things aren't related. People are being evicted NOW. People are hungry NOW. People don't have health care right NOW. That's what the Democrats are trying to get 3T in funding for. A vaccine would be nice, if it's even possible, but that does nothing to stop the suffering that is happening right now.
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There are already four recognised mutations, which one does the vaccine work on. That is the problem with the common cold and various, flu, you can only vaccinate for one season and then the new mutation becomes dominant.
Now when you stop to think about ionising radiation and the impact it has on DNA, you stop to think, they might keep our exposure low but lots of microbes get massive doses near ionising radiation and well, what mutates out of that, mutates out of that.
They lied all the way through, they li
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Stop lying. Way more people die from the coronavirus than the flu, despite the lockdowns - the usual confirmed number of flu deaths is a couple of hundreds to a few thousands. And the BCG vaccine does precisely nothing - it used to be compulsory in France until not very long ago yet France is among the worst hit nations.
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Literally nobody freaked out about H1N1.
If we have a solid treatment in a month or two and vaccines by the end of the year... yeah all of this was a massive overreaction.
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May I see the evidence you have that a vaccine will only work on one strain? Because it sounds like you have some.
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That is the problem with the common cold and various, flu, you can only vaccinate for one season and then the new mutation becomes dominant.
Please learn the difference between mutations, strains, viral families, and (since you mentioned common cold) the overarching word "virus". Some of those words we can effectively vaccinate against, some we can't. So don't ever use examples of each in the same sentence.
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There is no reason currently for most people not to work right now. Maybe not at the job they had but at a job of some kind... to provide for themselves. There is no reason for anyone to be suffering. The only reason anyone in the USA is suffering right now is lack of motivation to get off their butts.
Vaccines and treatments as soon as possible mean everyone can get back to normalcy
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How is "getting off their butts" going to create jobs for all of these people, exactly?
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You do nothing... you get no reward this is a basic law of nature. Violators of it will pay dearly.
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That's a huge political win during an election year, as it's still cheaper than $3T of stimulus money the Dems are pushing. Those two things aren't related. People are being evicted NOW. People are hungry NOW. People don't have health care right NOW. That's what the Democrats are trying to get 3T in funding for. A vaccine would be nice, if it's even possible, but that does nothing to stop the suffering that is happening right now.
Have you looked at that 3T bill? There are all sorts of non--COVID things in there. It's a liberal democrat wish list that's all inclusive. They are using the Virus as an excuse to spend trillions of dollars on their pork projects. In the mean time, the 1T republican bill which could easily deal with the things you think are important (and does in most cases) sits there, ready to be debated but oh no, we cannot discuss anything short of 3 Trillion...
Democrats don't want to fix this, they want their who
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Those two things aren't related. People are being evicted NOW. People are hungry NOW. People don't have health care right NOW. That's what the Democrats are trying to get 3T in funding for. A vaccine would be nice, if it's even possible, but that does nothing to stop the suffering that is happening right now.
Maybe those people should have considered planning ahead before electing our current and previous crops of criminally negligent Democrats and Republicans?
Re: Trump (Score:2, Informative)
Actually Bill Gates is doing the exact same thing with his foundation. He's building factories to manufacture millions of vaccines using several candidates. [businessinsider.com] Most of them will never be used. So the concept is very valid - dumping on Trump not so much.
The response to the coronavirus has been a mixed bag. People do not understand that it's exactly that. The testing has been a sh-tshow from the beginning. However, the other half of the "mixed bag" has not I.e. cranking up valid and working vaccine candidates to
Re: Trump (Score:2)
Why is it a choice? The world put in 8B at the start of May. Canada put in 850M!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/w... [google.com]
Re: Trump (Score:2)
The mistakes with the testing have already been made and were made in middle management in the CDC somewhere. We can argue about masks ad infinitum and not get anywhere. But when it comes to vaccines it's an entirely different story.
Like a "moonshot" this is a race that can't be lost. The fact that the US decided to go at it alone is a feature and not a bug. The fact is you literally can't have too many vaccine candidates in the world because there is a very distinct chance that non of them will work. One e
Re: Trump (Score:2)
There is no going it alone. Just because we put money into one bucket doesn't mean we can't scatter that across trials. It foolish to think we alone can do better than a group effort on a group problem. Especially when you consider that all these companies that we would give our monies to are all the same ones that everyone else deals with. Especially when you consider that the US or U.K. results will probably be the ones that everyone uses anyway. Why not let them chip in our efforts too? Because this i
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The US has had covid-19 for 6 months now and its still heavy. We can't still be blaming something that happened 2 months ago let alone 5 months ago! And you are basically backing my point. We went it alone (which is OK) for more reliable tests. That process failed and.... we kept going it alone?!? Thats a bad PM101 type of mistake. Someone's ego got in the way (no, not saying Trump; there are others).
As for the tests... all of them take anywhere from 10 _minutes_ to 3 hours! The variation comes in th
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Trump's medicare / medicaid cuts will cover it.
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Before this even happens, we've GOT to figure out what Trump's cut is gonna be. You know he wants a cut.
Yeah. That's why he has been promoting Hydroxychloroquine instead of these vaccines.
Re: Trump (Score:5, Insightful)
The Trump administration desperately needs a success story out of this whole mess. I think this project is all they have left of any hope for one. It could be a reward in itself for Trump.
"It's not as bad as the flu" perpetuates, denialism is high, the anti-lockdown protests are cheered, lockdown measures are attacked, the relief measures aren't popular with his own party, etc. This relatively cheap multi-billion dollar side project needs to deliver so they can get to a point of pretending everything else that happened prior wasn't real, ASAP.
Grab some popcorn if it yields results anywhere near the election because then Trump has to deal with the delivery side of a federal vaccination program. It's going to be a beautiful vaccine, the best, go get your freedom shots today, unless you don't want to, the governors should do the right thing, a lot of people say vaccines cause autism, maybe the doctors should look into it.
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Well he has set himself up for failure by only ordering 100 million doses. Last time I checked there 328 million people in the US and 2/3rds of them aren't going to get it.
Can you imagine how Trump is going to dole these doses out? They will be used as rewards for loyalty and ass kissing. Bend the knee to Trump or your constituents don't get any vaccine. It will end up hurting him more than it helps.
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I don't recall what type of vaccine the J&J is but the easiest vaccines provide short term safety of about 4 months. Then you need a boost. By then there may be a better vaccine. In the meantime though you can act fairly effectively against the epidemic: you take on the hotspots , the elderly and those with comorbidities first. That way you can hope to restart the economy.
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Before this even happens, we've GOT to figure out what Trump's cut is gonna be. You know he wants a cut.
Proof or STFU.
Re:Trump (Score:4, Insightful)
good money after bad (Score:5, Interesting)
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This.
My $1,200 went fast and I have no goddam idea what we got for 2.2 trillion bucks.
Re:good money after bad (Score:4, Interesting)
My $1,200 went fast and I have no goddam idea what we got for 2.2 trillion bucks.
You're not supposed to.
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Re:good money after bad (Score:4, Insightful)
As opposed to the con artist who was warned in January [nytimes.com] he needed to prepare the country for the inevitable infections which would occur, who instead said the numbers would definitely be going down, it was not big deal, it's only 15 people, that we shut it down.
Who then spent the next three months, as infections and deaths started to climb, doing absolutely nothing except stealing supplies from states [newsweek.com] who were trying to prepare because the con artist said the state's were on their own.
Who then said that no one knew this was coming, and that he, as the supposed president of this country, took no responsibility for anything [politico.com], but instead blamed it on guy who hadn't been in the public eye for over three years.
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January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”
February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”
February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”
February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”
February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”
February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”
February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.”
February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”
March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”
March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”
March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”
March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”
March 5: “The United States has, as of now, only 129 cases and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”
March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down a tremendous job at keeping it down.”
March 6: “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”
March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”
March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”
March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”
March 9: “This blindsided the world.”
March 13: [Declared state of emergency]
March 17: “This is a pandemic,” Mr. Trump told reporters. “I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.”
No need for hindsight. Sensible people already knew at the time Trump was completely wrong every step of the way.
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As opposed to the con artist who was warned in January [nytimes.com] he needed to prepare the country for the inevitable infections which would occur
Didn't the left call him racist for taking action in January?
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Yeah, clearly everyone in government were unable to predict the future. It's a tough skill, unlike 20/20 hindsight.
Why does gross incompetence need to be partisan? You don't need politicians to predict the future, you just need them to listen to scientific advice they pay to employ. There is no 20/20 hindsight here. The world including America's own health agency was telling America on Feb 6 what would happen if they continued down the path, and it turned out to be completely accurate.
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Even New Zealand and Australia need it, despite their responses approximating the ideal of eradicating it from their countries. (Yes, due to geographical factors as much as anything they did).
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Every place that depends on tourism needs to vaccinate no matter how low its case count may be. I live in a tourist town that is one art festival away from total devastation.
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The government sure is throwing a lot of money at something the doesn't exist for a problem that didn't have to exist if the government did the right thing months ago
I think the best-managed countries in the world will still want to get enough vaccinations in their population to hit 70% or whatever the level for herd immunity to covid-19 will be. The problem is out there in the wild, in the world, and every country will want to defend against it.
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The government sure is throwing a lot of money at something the doesn't exist for a problem that didn't have to exist if the government did the right thing months ago
BS.. This problem was going to exist the second the virus got out of Wuhan. You do understand that the virus was loose in the USA in DECEMBER, long before anybody was ringing alarm bells over it. There was literally NOTHING we could do. There where no specific tests, no known treatments, nothing. There was nothing the government could conceivably do about this, it was what it was and will be what it will be.
The only thing we can do is play a delaying action, slow down the spread. There was no way to just
We've seen a breakthrough in virus safety (Score:2)
I have high confidence in modern vaccine tech. They don't use the actual pathogen any more in making the vaccine. Two major types of vaccine today involve either ones with an attenuated mild common cold adenovirus with SARS2 antigens glued on, or an mRNA vaccine which have no virus at all triggers cells to generate a protien antigen to invoke the immune response. This eliminates the problems that scared people about vaccines before, which was having the actual virus injected into them. So these are markedly
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Yes, today's vaccine tech is vastly better than even a decade or two ago. However, it is still experimental, and it is still not wise to vaccinate millions of people with what could end up being a placebo. Safety is not sufficient for good policy. Cost to manufacture, cost to administer, cost in "immunized" people taking risks and getting sick, and the resulting cost in delay and lost trust. Effectiveness is also necessary.
I am disappointed that leadership seems focused on assigning blame and finding si
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The J&J vaccine uses an existing virus platform that has been tested already quite a bit long before this pandemic. So we are looking at technology that is already safe and tested safe over and over again. So, its safe right now as we speak.
The mRNA vaccines are a newer tech but they make up for that in they contain no virus at all and the mRNA has a short half life and is cleared from the body.
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Vaccine platform rather.
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i will comment on hygene. The goal of the hygene we are doing is to get us up to the point we have a vaccine for this virus. Really. you dont want to overdo hygene. Weak viruses may actually be important to our immune systems being able to develop so they can deal with things that come along. There are a lot of viruses in circulation and many are mild. So the vaccine is really the big solution to this and is what we need. Once we have the vaccine people should stop wearing masks.
Better idea (Score:1)
if I was president... (Score:2)
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"Btw I'm a full time Youtuber."
Also, it would seem, a bit of a whiner.
Cronenbergs (Score:2)
Thought Gates was doing a similar thing (Score:2)
Does this have any overlap with what the is doing (also producing vaccines before the results are in, although Gates is manufacturing several candidates). [businessinsider.com]
J&J - the same company that brought you... (Score:1)
Re:That's an absolute shit deal Trump made... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Sounds like a good deal until you realize that it's only a potential vaccine.
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Sounds like a good deal until you realize that it's only a potential vaccine.
And then you realize the cost is barely a rounding error, and it sounds good again.
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A $1 billion bet on a vaccine that may or may not pan out is a rounding error? As long as it's just a "rounding error", you think maybe we can use that $1 billion to pay for people to vote by mail so they don't get sick in the first place?
0.016% if you want a more precise number (Score:3)
> A $1 billion bet on a vaccine that may or may not pan out is a rounding error?
More precisely, it's around 0.016% of the economic cost of COVID so far. That's not even counting lives saved, or permanent disabilities avoided.
If you factor in 160,000 lives saved, and value each life at $10 million (see footnote), that's an additional 1.6.trillion, so the $1 billion is even a smaller percentage.
Of course that depends on exactly how you count the economic cost of living with covid. $1 billion could be 0.0
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If you factor in 160,000 lives saved, and value each life at $10 million
10 million? Is that the cost of resurrection these days?
If not, where do you get the 160,000 number from?
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I probably shouldn't have even brought that up because it distracts from the point of the post. But since you asked ...
Quoting from my post you replied to:
--
Footnote on the value of a life in America:
The car your buying has an optional safety feature which costs $600 and will reduce your chance of dying in a car accident by 20%. Would you like to buy that safety system? Based on people's choices in decisions like that, a hundred different decisions that depend on how much people value saving their life, st
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A $1 billion bet on a vaccine that may or may not pan out is a rounding error?
Yes. There are 330 million Americans. So $1B is $3 per person.
A $3 bet on a vaccine that has a 10% chance of working is a no-brainer.
We should be making many, many such bets.
Re: That's an absolute shit deal Trump made... (Score:1)
Youâ(TM)re assuming that a course is a single does, and these doses would be available to everyone. The latter is unlikely if the Cheeto administration controls them, much like the 2018 tax disgrace costs me $3k a year in punishment for not voting for him.
Re:That's an absolute shit deal Trump made... (Score:5, Insightful)
A $1 billion bet on a vaccine that may or may not pan out is a rounding error? As long as it's just a "rounding error"
It is.
Considering Trump wants to spend 25x as much just bailing out the airline industry (again) [cnbc.com]
And Congres already spent $2.2 trillion CARES Act in March. Plus however many trillions the next one is going to be.
The US economy contracted at a 32.9% annual rate from April through June, its worst drop on record, the Bureau of Economic Analysis said Thursday. [cnn.com]
Not annualized, GDP declined by 9.5% in between April and June, or by $1.8 trillion.
If a mere billion dollars has a chance to turn that all around and get things growing again. It's a drop in a bucket.
you think maybe we can use that $1 billion to pay for people to vote by mail so they don't get sick in the first place?
Have another few billion if you need it. Free and fair elections are important. It would be money well spent.
But there's no need to take it away from vaccine development.
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A $1 billion bet on a vaccine that may or may not pan out is a rounding error?
As others have pointed out, it is literally a rounding error of the current COVID cost. Do you have lots of problems with fractions? At what fraction do you think something is not a rounding error?
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And then you realize the cost is barely a rounding error, and it sounds good again.
It's twice as much as was poured down the Solyndra hole. Since that was (according to you) only half of a rounding error, will we stop hearing conservacucks whine about it?
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I haven't whined about Obama's Solyndra kick back scheme for more than 3 years,
Who the fuck are you, anonymous coward? I heard someone whining about Solyndra just last month. As far as I know, it was you.
Still feeling butt hurt on that one? You should... Obama got you on that one.
Reich wingers don't actually give a fuck about that kind of thing, because they reliably vote for people who do much worse. All they know is black man bad.
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Similar bets are being made on other horses in this race. This may be an unorthodox way of getting a vaccine to market, but this is an unorthodox disease.
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Maybe, but it's a tried-and-true way to funnel taxpayer money to big corporations.
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Sounds like a good deal until you realize that it's only a potential vaccine.
Comments like this are proof that there is literally nothing Trump can do that would satisfy a liberal.
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He could drink bleach and it would go a long way to satisfying me.
Sunk cost-perverse incentive (Score:2)
What I'm afraid of is that the "sunk cost" results in a perverse incentive to push this vaccine through regardless of efficacy/safety, just to save the administration and others involved the "embarrassment" of sinking money into something that didn't pan out. Americans will find out about it 5-10 yeas later when all the statistics start piling up.
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Re:That's an absolute shit deal Trump made... (Score:4, Insightful)
$10 a dose is a very good deal. Please leave partisanship out of this. The vaccine is badly needed and the sooner it is available the more lives that can be saved. I would expect people to behave more like adults and not oppose something simply because Trump helped make it happen. Grow up.
Re:That's an absolute shit deal Trump made... (Score:4, Insightful)
If only we'd been able to keep partisanship out of it when it was time for everybody to mask up and respect social distance.
Think of how different our situation would be now if we'd had the per capital COVID death rates of say South Korea, or even Germany.
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If only we'd been able to keep partisanship out of it when it was time for everybody to mask up and respect social distance.
If you'd have left partisanship out of it them perhaps you shouldn't have been screaming racism for the travel ban, you shouldn't have supported crowds of people in the street burning down other innocent peoples properties because some criminal somewhere got killed by a corrupt cop.
Partisan-less is a great thing. You should try it.
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Considering that what he said was at a time when PPE was in very short supply and it was not known that people could be infected, asymptomatic, and spreading the disease, it is not the flip-flop you make it out to be. (emphasis added):
LaPook, March 8: There’s a lot of confusion among people, and misinformation, surrounding face masks. Can you discuss that?
Fauci: The masks are important for someone who’s infected to prevent them from infecting someone else . . . Right now in the United States , people should not be walking around with masks.
LaPook: You’re sure of it? Because people are listening really closely to this.
Fauci: There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.
LaPook: And can you get some schmutz, sort of staying inside there?
Fauci: Of course, of course. But, when you think masks, you should think of health care providers needing them and people who are ill. The people who, when you look at the films of foreign countries and you see 85% of the people wearing masks — that’s fine, that’s fine. I’m not against it. If you want to do it, that’s fine.
LaPook: But it can lead to a shortage of masks?
Fauci: Exactly, that’s the point. It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it.
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Considering that what he said was at a time when PPE was in very short supply and it was not known that people could be infected, asymptomatic, and spreading the disease, it is not the flip-flop you make it out to be. (emphasis added):
It was still a lie. Maybe the reason for it was sufficient, but their was a cost also and complaining about it now means he was not prepared to pay it. He is trying to eat his cake and have it to look it.
The cost was his credibility and the credibly of everybody who supported his lie. So what are they lying about now?
And PPE is still in sort supply thanks to the same kind of thinking which led to that lie.
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There is a reason we don't have a vaccin to influenza, or most other viruses. We still don't know if this works for longer than 12 months or if you'll need a new vaccine every quarter to stay safe.
Do you want to spend a billion dollars a quarter on vaccines? Or a Trillion dollars a quarter to pay everyone to stay at home?
Re:That's an absolute shit deal Trump made... (Score:5, Insightful)
The vaccines are very safe and you clearly have not looked at how these things work. They are using an existing vaccine platform that already has been proven safe. The problem with the vaccine containing the actual virus is gone. These vaccines use a mild cpld virus to carry a SARS2 protein. The other is a mRNA vaccine which while being new contains no virus whatsoever. It is extremely safe technology and has already been tested widely. Stop spreading disinformation and outdated information. These are not your grandfathers smallpox vaccine.
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The vaccines are very safe and you clearly have not looked at how these things work.
We hope they are, but we aren't sure, which is why they have trials and approval by regulators before being released.
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No need to worry about safety. Vaccine manufacturers enjoy complete immunity from lawsuits. A safe product need not worry about lawsuits.
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Unfortunately this is wrong. Thanks to the American legal system and its potential to earn a lot of money with a lawsuit people do sue about ridiculous things.
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The law does not give complete immunity from lawsuits but only under certain circumstances and provided all the action required by the law are followed by the vaccine manufacturer. If all of that is done then scientists have recognized that there are so many variables in the drugs and in people that you cannot guarrentee complete safety. So sci
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The vaccines are very safe and you clearly have not looked at how these things work. They are using an existing vaccine platform that already has been proven safe. The problem with the vaccine containing the actual virus is gone. These vaccines use a mild cpld virus to carry a SARS2 protein. The other is a mRNA vaccine which while being new contains no virus whatsoever. It is extremely safe technology and has already been tested widely. Stop spreading disinformation and outdated information. These are not your grandfathers smallpox vaccine.
As one or two high level scientists have pointed out, this shows that the original claim that Covid-19 is a completely NOVEL virus, and hence very dangerous to everyone, because nobody has any natural immunity, was an error or lie.
I care nothing for American politics, and it just seems that this notion that we all have to wait for vaccines before we can properly go back to normal, is just being driven by vested interests on lots of fronts. People say this vaccine is cheap, and surely it is, but that's very
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...is just being driven by vested interests on lots of fronts
What vested interests? Which fronts? Are you kidding me?
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