Drones Take Italians' Temperature and Issue Fines (securityweek.com) 88
wiredmikey writes from a report via SecurityWeek: Authorities in Italy are using Drones equipped with heat sensors to take the temperature of citizens and send the information to a drone operator, who has a thermal map on his hand-held screen -- shining orange and purple blobs. The hovering drone emits a mechanical buzz reminiscent of a wasp and shouts down instructions in a tinny voice. "Attention! You are in a prohibited area. Get out immediately," commands the drone, about the size of a loaf of bread. "Violations of the regulations result in administrative and criminal penalties," the drone says. "Once a person's temperature is read by the drone, you must still stop that person and measure their temperature with a normal thermometer," Matteo Copia, a police commander, said. Copia says the local police force has received new powers that allow it to check people's temperature without their knowledge or permission.
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Re: typical italian reactions: (Score:2)
Re: typical italian reactions: (Score:1)
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Too true!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Me: Good luck taking my temperature when I'm wearing insulating clothing.
I hope you're not serious...
Alternate (Score:2)
Anarchist: Wow every day I get to do free trial runs of my anti-drone net gun!
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"typical italian: this is for my own safety and I should comply with the regulation as it stands."
You obviously never met one.
Re: typical italian reactions: (Score:1)
Re: typical italian reactions: (Score:1)
You will obey! (Score:5, Funny)
Exterminate!
That's amazing! (Score:2)
It's amazing to me that they were so quickly able to develop this technology AND deploy it within such a small timewindow.
Almost as if they had already developed it AND were using it.
Re:That's amazing! (Score:4, Insightful)
Thermal cameras have been a thing for nearly 100 years.
Re: That's amazing! (Score:1)
Well that's just a little bit of an exaggeration.
Actually right (Score:3)
Well that's just a little bit of an exaggeration.
Actually, no [wikipedia.org], parent post *is* right:
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"How much is too much? My body temperature normal runs slightly lower than the average, so I could have a mild fever and read normally with the guesstimates that IR cameras provide. This will get shot down in court. "
What court? People wear masks, nobody knows who they are.
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The Drone reads you and then summons the police to detain you and gather more reliable evidence.
"Once a person's temperature is read by the drone, you must still stop that person and measure their temperature with a normal thermometer," Matteo Copia, a police commander, said.
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Forget joggers - what about cooks, bakers, welders, or anyone else that works in a hot environment?
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From https://thermogears.com/guide-... [thermogears.com]
The thermal imaging cameras, with their infrared detector arrays, are capable of offering accuracy with temperature sensitivity up to 0.1C, which is useful in detecting more accurate information.
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Airports and looking at every person moving past a fixed detection system. For the people travelling how did not know to stay cool.
The next part was the drone. As in looking for people gathering, telling people what to do.
Re:That's amazing! (Score:5, Insightful)
Not wishing to spread a pandemic is being a sheeple? Enforcing a quarantine is making people slaves? Obeying emergency orders from local and regional governments is being a gutless coward?
Perhaps it's just that some of us understand the reasoning behind these temporary measures. This is a quarantine, and quarantines are pointless unless they're enforced.
Literally NO ONE wants this. Not workers, not owners, not the rich, not governments. The quarantine hurts everyone to a degree right now, but a runaway pandemic would hurt even worse. Obviously, the workers / poorest are hurt worst of all, but governments and private institutions alike are doing their best to make sure the impact isn't too catastrophic. Nearly every institution I pay monthly has emergency measures in place to suspend payments if I needed to. A complete economic collapse hurts everyone, after all, and they're collectively trying to avoid Great Depression 2.0.
Brand me a coward or a sheeple if you must. But right now, quarantines are the only way we have to combat this thing. Yes, we have to be extremely vigilant that these "temporary measures" don't become too permanent, but that's a discussion for when they're not a medical necessity. For today, I think it's important to inject a voice of reason to counter hysterical rabble-rousing.
I'm posting anonymously, which I normally don't do, simply because I don't want to attract the attention of conspiratorial nutcases like you. Life is stressful enough right now.
Re:That's amazing! (Score:5, Insightful)
Not wishing to spread a pandemic is being a sheeple? Enforcing a quarantine is making people slaves? Obeying emergency orders from local and regional governments is being a gutless coward?
It's not the being asked to obey part people are upset about. It's the being forced under threat of violence part.
Perhaps it's just that some of us understand the reasoning behind these temporary measures. This is a quarantine, and quarantines are pointless unless they're enforced.
Nonsense. People could willingly agree to it as they are mostly doing on their own volition in many parts of the world. In a country governed by consent perhaps you could try convincing others to do what you want them to do. Hell failing that you could even bribe them to stay home.
Yes, we have to be extremely vigilant that these "temporary measures" don't become too permanent, but that's a discussion for when they're not a medical necessity.
Reality doesn't work this way. Leaders are already using the pandemic as an excuse to consolidate power. Here in the states we still haven't rid ourselves of the aftermath of emergency overreach following 9/11 some two decades ago.
For today, I think it's important to inject a voice of reason to counter hysterical rabble-rousing.
The fight against COVID-19 is the battle against a veritable world sickness which threatens to infect the peoples; a plague that devastates whole peoples . . . . an international pestilence.
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Yes, this is the definition of "law" and the nature of a sovereign state. Ultimately, all laws and regulations imply the threat of violence if not obeyed. That is, nearly any regulation, if disobeyed long enough, will eventually turn into violence. This is why some of us constantly harp on how giving the government too much power is a dangerous thing, but a lot of people seem to only want to use the government to enforce their pet causes, not considering that it could be turned against people.
But the one
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But the one thing a government absolutely has not just a right, but a mandate to do is to perform actions necessary to preserve public safety and order in times of an emergency. This is when government is needed most, because no one else can really fulfill that role.
I'm not making blanket statements. I'm only suggesting there are other more diplomatic means that could be employed to achieve a desired outcome.
If ominous threats from little flying toys create backlash and entrench organized disobedience where does this leave you? More violence? More sick?
When the needle between government by consent and government by force is pointed as much as possible toward consent society maximally benefits. This requires hard work and creativity. It requires consensus building a
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It's not the being asked to obey part people are upset about. It's the being forced under threat of violence part.
You've just solved the problem of crime. We all just need to tell people to be nice to each other and crime will disappear!
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You've just solved the problem of crime. We all just need to tell people to be nice to each other and crime will disappear!
I've come to expect people to hear what they want instead of that which was actually stated.
What I am more surprised by and honestly didn't expect was to get away with the Hitler quote.
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It's not the being asked to obey part people are upset about. It's the being forced under threat of violence part.
You've just solved the problem of crime. We all just need to tell people to be nice to each other and crime will disappear!
No, but really, our society depends on mostly voluntary compliance. Our police forces are in no way equipped to force everyone to comply with our laws. Most people are just law abiding, and we have a few miscreants.
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Not wishing to spread a pandemic is being a sheeple? Enforcing a quarantine is making people slaves? Obeying emergency orders from local and regional governments is being a gutless coward?
It's not the being asked to obey part people are upset about. It's the being forced under threat of violence part.
Not threatening violence means that some people won't obey, undermining the effectiveness of the obedience of the rest.
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Enforced rules are necessary because of people (like you?) who won't listen and comply w/o the threat.
Just yesterday, I went to get groceries and had two separate jackasses walk right up next to me before I'd even seen them coming. This, in spite of all the signs and floor markings and everyone else keeping six foot distances. It was all I could do to keep from throwing each of them to the ground. Comply, or be forced to comply...assimilation is not an option.
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This isn't even conspiracy theory stuff. It's human nature. Power seeks power. Power wants control, and given the opportunity, those personality types will take advantage of the situation if it presents itself. You slap that type down every single time otherwise you get screwed.
'Freedom' and 'Privacy' ha
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You can do that. I however will continue to call the police on my neighbors when they are too close to each other.
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Literally NO ONE wants this. Not workers, not owners, not the rich, not governments.
Oh, I don't know about that. Our governor where I live, for example, seems to be enjoying her emergency powers immensely. And her hairdresser is apparently "essential". And ironically, who sounds more eager to drop their emergency powers, her or the supposed "orange dictator"? You know the answer.
Yes, we have to be extremely vigilant that these "temporary measures" don't become too permanent, but that's a discussion for when they're not a medical necessity.
No, it's a discussion for right now. How do we know when we can end this? What are the criteria? What happens when we get better information about the true death rate? What if it turns out to be lower than things
Re: That's amazing! (Score:2)
Wouldn't it be nice if we could all post anonymously every now and again.
Alas, I can't. Wrote to /. several times.....I think they did something, it worked once and then, several days later,it didn't...pity.
You know what's funny? When it was possible to just post anonymously, I didn't. But now I'm irritated that the option is being denied to me..
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How'd 9/11 work out for you?
you got it all wrong (Score:2)
It's amazing how easy it is to sell technology that you have just a barely working faked proof of concept of when governments are desperate to buy anything.
batteries etc. think about it. if you had such good heat cameras would you use them on the drones and not at grocery stores and such?
yes I'm saying that it doesn't work as well as how they claim, it's just a pr tool and a tool to suck money from the italian government.
slap one of those thermal imaging phones on a drone and there you have it, a device tha
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You might want to update yourself on current tech. 0.1 degree accuracy isn't difficult.
https://thermogears.com/guide-... [thermogears.com]
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It's amazing to me that it's amazing to you. Turn in your geek card.
You Are Fined 1 Credit For A Violation Of The Verb (Score:2, Funny)
You Are Fined 1 Credit For A Violation Of The Verbal Morality Statute
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...and he doesn't know how to use the three shells!
G. Orwell must be spinning in his grave (Score:1)
You have my sympathies, Italians.
we all saw this coming (Score:1)
Flying robots barking orders at people walking around the city. Yeah, we all saw this coming.
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And it never ended there either. Berlusconi ring a bell?
Fun fact (Score:2)
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Also all overweight people. (Score:2)
And people in too much clothing.
You know: Insulation.
This whole thing will be primarily a state terror tool in 3... 2... 1... I'm kidding, it already is!
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Fever is normally described as having a body temperature 100.6 degrees F or higher, and for covid19 they were saying 100.4 degrees F.
More than 100.4 F indicates a probable infection. I'm their drone thingie will be using Metric like the rest of the world outside the US; might check for a bit higher, such as 38.3 degrees celsius (101F)
Most people will Not have a 100.4 degrees F jogging or even running.
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I pulled this off a med website, but it's bullshit to treat everyone the same when some people have normal temps a degree high/low. I've always run a full degree lower than avg., so at 99.6 I have a full blown fever.
"Although a fever (pyrexia) could be considered any body temperature above the normal temperature of 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit (98.6 F or 37 C), medically, a person is not considered to have a significant fever until the temperature is above 100.4 F (38.0 C)."
The real reason.... (Score:2)
Italians are an image conscious lot and this simply a plot to hide all the obese people.
Fat, sweaty ( probably ugly! ) and outside? You're fined, now get off home!!
Herf Gun (Score:1)
Time to check out how good the RF shielding is on that flying loaf of bread.
Work where you can find it (Score:2)
If I had a badge and was being paid to fly these shit things around town I wouldn't last a day before being fired or arrested.
so it's a prohibited area in the first place? (Score:2, Interesting)
so it's a prohibited area in the first place?
so the thermal thing is .. well I'm intrigued. where the f***k are they buying thermal cams good enough to do that that they can just slap on a drone and don't need a calibration device on the screen or anything?
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Most of them are self calibrating these days, they have a shutter that automatically covers the lens with a calibration target ever 30 seconds or so.
The issue is not calibration, it's resolution and accuracy. Thermal cameras are just not sensitive or accurate enough to really tell when someone has a slightly elevated temperature. They would have to be so bad that a visible light inspection would probably make it obvious that they were sick anyway. Sounds like security theatre.
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...and don't need a calibration device on the screen or anything?
This is what's bothering me. How are they calibrating it? How are they filtering out reflected temperatures? Thermography is significantly different from photography.
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well I'm intrigued. where the f***k are they buying thermal cams good enough to do that that they can just slap on a drone and don't need a calibration device on the screen or anything?
A couple of hundred $$$ gets you a thermal camera that self calibrates, auto scales and is largely software limited so the seller can up-sell you on the next model which allows you to do set things such a thermal range limits and emissivity. These things are no where near as expensive as they used to be. They don't need to be 1080p, they can be crappy things stuck on a cheap gimbals with a telescopic lens and you can easily judge someone's temperature (external temperature) compared to others.
Critically, th
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https://thermogears.com/guide-... [thermogears.com]
Temperature Alone is Not Good Enough (Score:3, Insightful)
We already know from studies in Iceland and Greenland that up to 50% of people with COVID-19 are asymptomatic. These infected can spread the disease but have no temperature, and are already considered to be one of the primary reasons this disease spread for so long and so widely without earlier detection.
Even among the symptomatic, not all have a temperature. There is a plethora of other diseases that can cause temperatures, and over the counter drugs can reduce the temperature of infected without curing the disease.
Attempts to control this disease via temperature checks is a dangerously inaccurate approach, trust in which puts people at risk.
Who said temp alone? (Score:2)
They didn't follow up to see if they developed symptoms later.
No one is claiming this is enough to solve the problem by itself. But it quite clearly helps to find some infected people.
Re: Who said temp alone? (Score:2)
No, it doesn't. At all! Not even a single one!
All it does, is find false positives to terrorize and false negatives to ignore.
And irrational fear based delusion of total(itarian) control is the only reason it exists at all. It is a symptom of mental illness. And making the handling of Corona actually worse tok, because those resources, time and effort could be used for a sensible, better-working solution.
Why are you siding *with* totalitarian state terrorism anyway? Are you a Nazi?
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You lost the argument at Nazi.
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We already know from studies in Iceland and Greenland that up to 50% of people with COVID-19 are asymptomatic.
If they manage to keep the other 50% at home, then they will still reduce the rate of spread.
Half Life 2 (Score:2)
Man, I hated those things in Half Life 2.
Not really (Score:4, Informative)
This is not "Italy", this is a small village inhabited by 10,000 people, whose "police commander" (a glorified civil servant with a uniform) has probably watched one too many SF movies and decided to make the news. BTW: the drones were acquired in December 2019 and are normally used to intercept zoning code violations, their usage for this kind of activity has not been sanctioned at regional or national level.
15 days ago, or so I warned you guys (Score:1)
I'm glad they're doing something (Score:2)
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pick up that can! (Score:1)
2020: scanners
2030: manhacks?
Taking someones temperature... (Score:2)
"Ah. Not exactly. There, in fact, you have rather discovered the reason for his biting."