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Medicine Government United States

Trump: CDC Recommends Cloth Face Covering To Protect Against Coronavirus 145

President Trump says the CDC now recommends using a cloth face covering to protect against coronavirus, but said he does not plan to do so himself. CNBC reports: Trump stressed that the recommendations were merely voluntary, not required. "I don't think I'm going to be doing it" he said as he announced the new guidance. The CDC's website explained that the recommendations were updated following new studies that some infected people can transmit the coronavirus even without displaying symptoms of the disease.
"In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain," such as in grocery stores or pharmacies, "especially in areas of significant community-based transmission," the CDC says.
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Trump: CDC Recommends Cloth Face Covering To Protect Against Coronavirus

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 03, 2020 @04:59PM (#59905944)

    Trump is right, this is the radical left's way of boiling the frog. First masks then getting all Americans to eventually wear hijabs.

    I, for one, am not falling for it!

    • by NoNonAlphaCharsHere ( 2201864 ) on Friday April 03, 2020 @05:04PM (#59905958)
      Yeah, but just think how the Mexican illegal rapist bad hombres respond to you when you're wearing a mask: "Es un bandito!!!" ... and then they cut you LARGE elbow room.
      • Yeah, but just think how the Mexican illegal rapist bad hombres respond to you when you're wearing a mask: "Es un bandito!!!" ... and then they cut you LARGE elbow room.

        Your comment reminds me of the statement All unicorns have ears and horns. But do they exist in any numbers? Twenty five years ago when the Mexican economy was in shambles. Today, not so. Mexican immigrants into the USA do not in any numbers, want to relocate. It is the people from Further south of Mexico.

    • Trump would look great in a Hijab
  • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Friday April 03, 2020 @05:29PM (#59906034)

    The CDC's website explained that the recommendations were updated following new studies that some infected people can transmit the coronavirus even without displaying symptoms of the disease.

    Didn't just about everyone -- except the Governors of Georgia and Florida [cnn.com] (who apparently, "just learned") -- know over a month ago that asymptomatic people could be infectious?

    • by spitzak ( 4019 )

      Yes this was known, but they wanted to prevent hoarding of those N95 masks that are needed for people actually exposed to people with the virus.

      However, at least here, there is a strong number of statements that using a cloth is correct and you should *not* be wearing N95 masks as those are reserved for medical personal. From what I have seen this is working, wearing a real N95 mask is now looked quite down on and people are not doing it out of social shaming. And everybody is wearing paper or cloth masks.

      • Such stupidity all around. A lot more people are going to die because of such policies and attitudes. Meanwhile the healthcare workers using the few effective masks are just dumping them in the trash after they see each patient apparently following idiotic and wasteful guidelines that assume the masks are ubiquitous and free and grow on trees in a sort of N95 Eden.

        Nothing is going to prevent intelligent people from hoarding the effective respiratory protection that actually works, but yes a lot of dumb, obe

        • by spitzak ( 4019 )

          The cloth masks are to prevent an infected person wearing them from expelling coronavirus into the air. I agree they do little to prevent a person without coronavirus from getting it.

    • Didn't just about everyone -- except the Governors

      Put away the partisan hack job Hacky Mc Hackface, there were tons of people on both right and left saying not to wear masks - in part because they claimed normies wouldn't know how to wear them right, thus they were worthless.

      Of course, any technologist inherently knows about defense in depth, so any amount of protection is better than none.

      • Didn't just about everyone -- except the Governors

        Put away the partisan hack job Hacky Mc Hackface, there were tons of people on both right and left saying not to wear masks - in part because they claimed normies wouldn't know how to wear them right, thus they were worthless.

        The thing everyone knew except the Governors mentioned was *not* about wearing masks, but that asymptomatic people could be infectious. The Governor of Georgia was quoted just the other day that he just learned about this even though it's been pretty common knowledge for over a month -- Mr I Can't Read a Complete Sentence Face. :-)

        If you're going to complain about something, make sure it's the right thing...

      • What are you talking about? The public was told not to wear masks because there was already a shortage of masks, and each mask on a face of a doctor prevents more spreading than a mask on a face of an average citizen. Yes, they sold it to the public as "it won't do much for you" because they were trying to avoid a run on masks like people did on toilet paper (a completely irrational move too).

        • Here's the thing. If your goal is protecting people treating those who are infected, then discouraging the public from wearing masks is the way to go. OTOH, if your goal is slowing down the rate of virus transmissions, then encouraging the public to wear masks is the way to go. One is bolstering your defense (dealing with the fallout of virus infections), the other is bolstering your offense (preventing virus infections from ever happening in the first place).

          If the defensive route will result in your
          • If you use the same mask on an average citizen under shelter-in-place, vs. on a doctor or nurse who is seeing sick people all day long (not necessarily all with COVID-19, some with other diseases making them more vulnerable), the benefit "per mask" is maximized, both in terms of limiting transmission and protecting the healthcare worker. If you have limited number of masks, you want to maximize the per-mask benefit.

          • You also have to consider the fact that intelligent people are going to know you are lying and that they are going to point it out to less intelligent people and that everyone is going to trust what you say a lot less in the future once you have a reputation as a strategic liar.

            Both the CDC and WHO now have such a reputation and in the future they will have to deal with the fact that, like North Korea or China, anything they say in the future is going to be taken with a huge amount of salt by a large segmen

      • Put away the partisan hack job Hacky Mc Hackface, there were tons of people on both right and left saying not to wear masks

        That's true. But what on earth does it have to do with the GP's comment? You're the only one here talking about masks. Go find another thread to rant in.

  • recommend washing said cloths? A face covering reused is almost worse than no face covering at all.

    • Why is it worse? Overnight the germs migrate to the other side of it?

      • by q4Fry ( 1322209 )

        Because it's new and uncomfortable, and you might subconsciously touch the outside of it.

        • The goal of the cloth face mask is to prevent your germs from infecting others, not vice-versa.

          • The goal of the cloth face mask is to prevent your germs from infecting others, not vice-versa.

            This... The face mask primary goal is as a barrier to help prevent carriers from infecting others. It doesn't do much for a healthy person.

            The real barrier is the 6 feet rule as the evidence to date says that it can't survive long enough outside of the host to travel that distance.

            • by tflf ( 4410717 )

              This... The face mask primary goal is as a barrier to help prevent carriers from infecting others. It doesn't do much for a healthy person.

              The real barrier is the 6 feet rule as the evidence to date says that it can't survive long enough outside of the host to travel that distance.

              6 feet is the normal maximum distance most people's breathe spray carries while breathing and talking, hence the 6 feet rule. Closer than 6 feet and moisture form your breathe, along with whatever bugs you have, reaches the person you are discoursing with - the closer you are, the denser the spray pattern.

              The virus itself is is remarkably resilient, especially compared to common viral infections (flu or colds). It can survive on any surface for hours (4 hours on copper!) and for days on many commo

  • ...doesn't the orange paint rub off?

  • by adfraggs ( 4718383 ) on Friday April 03, 2020 @05:35PM (#59906062)

    This is almost entirely about stopping you spreading the virus to other people. It basically stops you spitting on other people, even as you talk, which some experts are now suggesting is the primary way the virus spreads. This gets relegated to a confusing footnote in the CNBC article and could be explained so easily, but now we're going to see a rush on masks because people will think it will stop them from getting infected in the first place, which it won't really do.

    • Indeed. As the Czech campaign says, "Your mask protects me, my mask protects you". https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

      The messaging should certainly promote homemade masks, so we can continue prioritizing medical-grade masks for health care (and then other frontline workers).

      • by taiwanjohn ( 103839 ) on Friday April 03, 2020 @08:02PM (#59906448)

        This 7-minute video [youtube.com] explains in detail why and how mask wearing is an essential part of the overall strategy to stop the virus from spreading. I recommend it for anyone who's not quite convinced yet.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • The government could have been forcing companies to make N95 masks at rapid paces _months_ ago, but they didn't. They just blame. Trump's government is beyond incompetent. Their strategy for winning the next election is to say, "If you want rid of me, risk getting sick at your local polling place. Mailing it in will not be allowed. An oh look, most democratic polling places have long lines.. So sad."

          Politically I don't understand what he is thinking. It will be older people who tend to vote republican who have the most to lose.

    • by ljw1004 ( 764174 )

      now we're going to see a rush on masks because people will think it will stop them from getting infected in the first place

      In this way, people's stupidity will elegantly cancel out their selfishness.

      (selfish for caring about themselves, stupid for thinking the masks will help protect themselves).

    • by trawg ( 308495 )

      I have been wondering, once the initial panic dies off and the message gets out that wearing a mask won't help you personally but is about protecting everyone else, if the demand for masks will die off very rapidly.

  • Try this: Hold a shower head against your mask. And see how much of a mist still gets out to the other side.
    Or just try with a spray bottle.
    Cloth is just a prison with string bars. Stuff can still get through the holes in-between.

    That is why proper masks have a very specific maximum pore size.

    And if you are touching that mask with your hands, especially putting it on a second time, you're only making sure to spread whatever the mask collected onto your hands and everything the mask and its inside touch.
    You

    • by Anonymous Coward

      The mask isn't to prevent you from being infected. It's to prevent you from infecting others. (Excepting very careful proper use in medical situations.) It's only helpful for people who are infected to wear masks... but we have no idea who those people are (even with unlimited testing, the false negative rate is too high for it to be used to decide someone is definitely not going to infect others), so everyone should be assuming they are infected and doing everything they can to avoid infecting others.

      In fa

      • Some masks can prevent you from getting infected. It is just that the cloth ones and the surgical masks are not very good at that. They weren't designed to do that. N95, N99, and P100 masks as well as silicone respirators and PAPR hoods/helmets are much much more effective at protecting you from airborne virus droplets if they exist.

        There is some debate about whether such droplets are a threat. Some people are comfortable staking their life on the limited evidence that seems to show they are not. Others are

    • If they are 20% effective at reducing spread, that still reduces a 7-day doubling rate in new cases to 9 days, or a 4 day rate to 5.

      The challenge is they are a pain to use. I have a drywall mask with replaceable filters (useless in healthcare because it cannot be properly sterilized, useless to stop asymptomatic people because it has an unfiltered exhaust valve), and I can use it for about a half hour before it becomes too uncomfortable. A bandana mask doesnt last me much longer.

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Friday April 03, 2020 @07:10PM (#59906360)

      Their goal is not to prevent all droplets from passing through. It's to reduce their amount. Apply your own test without the pressure and see how quickly the mask gets wet. That's how much it has successfully prevented from passing through.

      And like most viruses, this one propagates by depositing a sufficient viral load onto vulnerable tissues. Masks reducing these loads significantly help reduce infectivity.

    • Put your beer down and try this: pull on your full face respirator and try to touch your face. Note how your fingers will always just hit the plastic faceplate and get nowhere near your skin. There is respiratory protection that will protect you from both touching your face and from airborne droplets if they do exist.

      Cloth and surgical masks are more about public health rather than individuals. If everyone wears them then coughs or sneezes or yawns are not so infectious anymore and it mitigates the amount o

  • ... that the likelihood of transmission of a droplet-based illness when someone is not in extended close contact with an infected individual, as is expected to be the case for health care workers, is small enough that a mask does not actually make any significant difference to the chance of getting the disease. It is a placebo at best, and might make people feel more secure, but the scientific data does not support the notion that it offers any real protection in any context except where a healthy person

  • by seyfarth ( 323827 ) on Friday April 03, 2020 @06:51PM (#59906302) Homepage

    I have a surgical mask which I keep in my car where it is exposed to sunlight. Since I began staying home I have shopped 3 times and I think the sunlight has disinfected my mask between each shopping trip. I think I will try to use InstaCart rather than shop in the future.

    For most of us there is not a need to shop except maybe once or twice a week. There should be time to allow sunlight to kill the virus between trips. Also if you remove the mask (or scarf) carefully you can avoid touching the front of it. Still I think a good hand washing should be in order after any possible exposure. If you want to wash a cloth mask, go ahead. Just wash your hands after placing it in the washer. Perhaps it would be sufficient to place it in some diluted bleach to kill the virus and clean it up a bit.

    I think the masks are a good idea. You could be an asymptomatic carrier and then the mask will help prevent to spread of the virus. It does require exercising caution to avoid mistakes. I always handle mine with the ear loops when I remove it and also wash my hands soon after. Then I use my diluted bleach to disinfect door knobs and anything else I may have touched. I may still catch it, but I am trying to be cautious.

    • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Friday April 03, 2020 @07:29PM (#59906400)

      I have a surgical mask which I keep in my car where it is exposed to sunlight. Since I began staying home I have shopped 3 times and I think the sunlight has disinfected my mask between each shopping trip.

      The active agent in sunlight which disinfects is ultraviolet light. Most types of glass, including the glass used in car windows, will block UV light. If you want something to be disinfected by sunlight, you need to put it in direct sunlight.

      • by trawg ( 308495 )

        The active agent in sunlight which disinfects is ultraviolet light. Most types of glass, including the glass used in car windows, will block UV light. If you want something to be disinfected by sunlight, you need to put it in direct sunlight.

        I believe most cars have UV blocking glass in the windscreen (UV A and B), but the side windows typically only block one of them (can't remember which one). So someone who is inclined to roll the dice on sterilising their masks might have better luck putting it in the back seat!

        • Glass blocks UVB/C unless specifically formulated to block UVA or not block UV at all. This is important for your eyes as eyes are easily damaged by UVA.

          However. UV-A doesn't sterilize. UV-A doesn't even cause a sunburn. Actually UV-B isn't all that good for sterilising either so simply leaving something in the sun is not what is going to kill the virus. The temperature and lack of humidity will make it hard for a virus to survive but the mask isn't being sterilised in any normal sense of the word.

    • Sunlight does not disinfect very well. There has been a rumor about UV disinfecting, but the sunlight will not do this for just a few hours in the sun. The UV that they have been using to disinfect rooms with is high power UVC rays, and UVC will give you a sunburn in seconds. From sunlight you mostly get UVA, wth some UVB. Your auto windows also probably provide some small UV protection in them anyway. So the rumors about UV being able to kill Covid-19 is both correct, but also wildly misunderstood.

  • slightly soaking it in water and then putting in the microwave for about a minute just like a sponge." - said no one ever.

  • It is clear that wearing masks slows the spread of the disease and also protects wearer. Any idiot understands this. So why does the CDC continue to insist that people shouldn't be wearing masks, unless already sick or caring for the sick? Clearly, they're shitting us about it because the country was utterly unprepared for this crisis, and now there aren't enough masks or other PPE even for the medical professionals.

    • by leonbev ( 111395 )

      Yeah, people seem to be forgetting that the CDC was recommending that people DO NOT wear masks just a few weeks ago, because they were ineffective:

      https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/29... [cnn.com]

      It's stories like this that make you wonder how much of the Coronavirus "news" we are getting is genuine, and how much is just propaganda.

      • by Baleet ( 4705757 )
        I wish I had mod points for you and parent, because this needs to be addressed. I can see why people might not believe Trump--he has a history of unreliable statements, to say the least. But the CDC and non-elected government officials who are supposed to be unbiased experts fed us bullshit that made no sense. They explained that masks were for the protection of persons other than the wearer--such as a doctor wearing a mask when treating a patient. But it was the N95 mask that was flying off the shelves and
  • Scientists from other countries have already concluded that wearing a regular clothmask is useless and might actually be more of a danger due to buildup of moisture in the cloth. It won't stop the virus from spreading if you cough as regular cloth is just like sneezing through a chainfence...

The truth of a proposition has nothing to do with its credibility. And vice versa.

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