France Orders People To Stay At Home For 15 Days Due To Pandemic (cnbc.com) 70
Willy English shares a report from CNBC: The president of France on Monday said he was ordering people in the country to stay at home for up to 15 days because of the coronavirus outbreak. President Emmanuel Macron said people should leave their homes only for essential duties, beginning midday Tuesday. Macron said he was taking the drastic step of limiting people's movements in France to reduce the risk of contamination from the virus. He said any violation of the edict would be punished. Macron also announced he was calling off the second round of municipal elections in light of his order. Macron's announcement came as Canada's leader, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, announced that he was closing the country's borders to foreigners, with the exception of U.S. citizens.
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It is both, often times when people ask an either or question... I often think... why can't it be both?
People behave badly, that is just how humans are and by majority. There is a very quantifiable reason why things are the way they are and it does not always make sense. People think that times have changed but they have never changes. What does change is the form our oppression, vices, and idea's take.
Between the Opportunists, Panic buyers, and indiferent folks problems like corona virus are always goin
Re:Pandemic? (Score:5, Insightful)
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No, this is necessary to prevent the medical system from becoming overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases. Actually it's going to be a little too late.
Near-complete lockdown won't slow the spread; it will delay the spread, making a new spike later. You need to have some slow spread among the healthy population to act like firebreaks for when the weaker people come out of self quarantine. The only other way is the Chinese way: weld people's doors shut for the time period for all contained people to have gotten the disease and passed through stages.
Let the healthiest people roam around separate from the old people and immune compromised. Let them get a
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That's exactly what IS happening. It is spreading throughout the population, and will continue to do so. A lockdown won't stop the spread. The lockdown assures the "slow spread" you note, and removes the spike.
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The only other way is the Chinese way: weld people's doors shut
The fact that you're referring to a hoax as your means of solving the problem leads me to suspect your credibility somewhat.
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This takes effect midday on Tuesday (in 3 hours), I got out of the country approximately 49 hours earlier. So what would have happened if I had been forced to stay?
- The hotels appear to have closed
- restaurants have closed
I would have been stuck in a country where I can't speak the language, have no food and no place to stay. This in an area which - according to the most recent maps I have seen - is still basically unaffected by the actual virus. I'm currently "self isolating" at home (apart from food s
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"I cannot see the danger, our current status is unaffected, why do people take emergency measures"
Now apply that to radiation accidents or sitting inside an aircraft at 30,000 ft cruising altitude that just lost both engines over the North Atlantic.
Rephrased "I personally am not competent enough to sense the risk, therefore the risk does not exist. I am personally slightly nuisanced by measures that are neccessary to prevent the deaths of thousands of my immediate neighbors, so I demand my neighbors bite th
Borders shut down (Score:4, Insightful)
- The hotels appear to have closed
- restaurants have closed
Lol what?
Not the shops selling food.
Not the hotels (do you really think that they are going to kick out all the people on the street?)
Please stop believing all the bullshit on twitter and reddit and read the primary source [gouvernement.fr].
If you suck at languages, DeepL or Google Translate can help.
I would have been stuck in a country
The way borders shut in Europe, is that nationnals are still allowed to immigrate, and you are still allowed to drive through a country to reach your own (e.g.: if you need to reach Austria from France through Switzerland ).
You would still be able to reach your own country.
The complicated stuff would be to manage it while avoiding all public transportations as per the current recommendations.
This in an area which - according to the most recent maps I have seen - is still basically unaffected by the actual virus.
And the hope is for it to remain this way.
The current measures are NOT to avoid all people DYING of the disease. There won't be that many dead (COVID-19 isn't Ebola, it *is* slightly more deadly than flu but shouldn't probably exceed 3% - there ARE NO DEFINITIVE NUMBERS that can be trusted for now, we'll have a better picture in a couple of months once we have enough hindsight).
The current measures are for *CONTAINMENT*, to stop viral PROGRESSION.
A. So the risk is lower that it reaches people with fragile health that are at higher risk for the disease.
B. to avoid a sudden overload of the health system (COVID-19 is slightly more contagious than seasonal flu and nobody's immune system has ever seen something similar before. Both together compound and COVID-19 can spread rather quickly). Without any measures to avoid person-to-person contact (after all, it's a type of respiratory disease, and it spread mostly by dropled when coughing/sneezing and by contact of dirty hands with mucosae - mouth, nose, eyes) it could spread very fast (with an exponantial type of growth). If hundreds of thousands get sick, that could mean thousands of heavy cases (pneumonia require hospitalisation). Hospitals are not all able to process thousands of new pneumoniae each day.
That's basically why european countries are enacting measures now, even if there aren't thousands of cadavers in the street.
To slow it down while it is still within a manageable size and avoid the hopitals need to throw away some of their dying patients for lack of capacity/personel/equipment.
Note: consider the above as my personnal *opinion*, do not take it as a medical advise.
The best *medical* advice I can give is to listen the recommendations and procedures of your local administration in charge with disease control. And as said above, do not get your advices from twitter, reddit, etc. concentrate on the primary source *directly* from said local adminsitration.
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Thats not a good number for other nations to discover due to politics, staying open to the world, due to doing nothing week after week.
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Mor like panic!
Indeed. This pandemic is fake news like the Y2K bug. Nothing happened for Y2K so clearly all drama about it beforehand was unwarranted.
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There is obviously no shortage of tinfoil hats.
What is this 15 day lockdown going to do? (Score:1)
In Italy's case, the 15 day lockdown makes some sense because of the overrun system. However, it seems this just delays the inevitable, as opposed to social distancing which slows the spread over time.
I hope France knows what it is doing in this case, because this isn't really going to help things.
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You have to keep in mind that the disease has a builtin delay. There is a delay before you show symptoms. And there is a delay before the symptoms become bad enough that some people need to be hospitalized. So if you believe that your healthcare system is going to be overrun, you have to make those tough decisions well in advance.
And this gets compounded if you have a backlog with your testing. This too will grind your healthcare to a halt if you can't determine within a reasonable timeframe who is infected
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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It stops sick people from wondering around making people sick.
People who can spread wuflu may not feel sick but they can spread the infection for days.
Keep them out of the community and less people get sick.
That reduces the flow of people into hospital for days and over weeks.
Less people need ICU beds. The ICU beds in use can slowly help people recover.
Less sick people, less need day to day for ICU beds.
No nation wants to fail the way Italy and natio
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The French government encouraged social distancing, it didn't work, so they ordered it more firmly.
Sunday, large groups of people were seen enjoying the nice weather in Paris, and when some venue was closed or an event was cancelled, they just met elsewhere.
It is not a total lockdown, work don't stop but you need to justify it can't do it from home, you can still go grocery shopping, you can still exercise outside as long as you are alone... It is a strong reminder of what "social distancing" means.
As a Fre
How? (Score:2)
Re:How? (Score:5, Informative)
Time to test your predictive power [latimes.com]. Because it's happening in the Bay.
Re: How? (Score:2)
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You realize the Bay area is the most left leaning area ever because they have money to spare, right?
Good luck on red states
Darwin gets the last laugh then.
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Ijiot, they are not trying to prevent the spread of the contagion, merely slow it down. It is endemic now, a part of our living environment, you will get it, from showing no symptoms (having no affect on you as your immune system fights it off with barely a reaction) to a mild flu to death. In fact they are doing more economic and social harm with crashing their economy then by allowing it to run it's natural course.
The problem is capitalism crippled emergency services to maximise profits to the point wher
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I'm far less worried about people dying at home fearful of going to the hospital than of the hospitals having no vacancy signs on the doors.
Yes, eventually most people will get this. It will become just another regular childhood or seasonal illness. But right now, Italy is an example of "allowing it to run it's natural course." and it is an example most people agree we should not follow.
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Ijiot, they are not trying to prevent the spread of the contagion, merely slow it down. It is endemic now, a part of our living environment, you will get it, from showing no symptoms (having no affect on you as your immune system fights it off with barely a reaction) to a mild flu to death. In fact they are doing more economic and social harm with crashing their economy then by allowing it to run it's natural course.
You'er correct in that everyone is GOING to be exposed to this, but you seem to not understand that slowing it down is the goal. Look at Italy. They are doing triage in the literal sense of the word because their healthcare system is overrun. If you can slow it down, you can (hopefully) avoid that.
The problem is capitalism crippled emergency services to maximise profits to the point where it is no longer capable of handling emergencies (having that spare capacity in the system to cope with emergencies cost fucking money and taxes have to pay for it and rich arse holes wanted their tax cuts because they have enough money to protect themselves in emergencies and fuck the rest of you).
Horseshit. There is no economic system (capitalism, socialism, communism, feudalism, despotism, take your pick) that can support having a bunch of idle capacity sitting around doing nothing when it costs that d
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This is happening in WA right now, plus Canada has closed the border.
No riots yet.
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Canada closed their border?!?!?
FUCKING RACISTS!!!!1!!
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You are not getting it, wartime laws. Did London ask "who will pay for it" when the bombs were dropping during the Blitz? It's the same deal.
Americans initially, but the Brits had to pay them back later.
Re:How? (Score:4, Interesting)
Where's the money going to come from?
Same place it did in 2008: future generations. All hail the national debt.
This is why they spout on about inflation targets of 2% and more - they say it's good for the economy but mainly it's to burn the value of the debt. And your wage packet, of course, but they don't care about that too much.
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Businesses won't pay for workers not to work.
Civilized nations have mandatory paid sick leave.
Where's the money going to come from?
Evil evil socialism. Americans wouldn't understand.
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The money will come from future profits after all of this will be over. And after all this will be over the countries that are still standing will make the profits and those who will be smoldering ruins will not. Going into deep debt and spending future money on surviving this situation as unscathed as possible is the only way to be one of the former countries instead of one of the latter.
China is already recovering now. They pushed the virus back and while they still have to be careful they will be able to
grocery stores like amazon (Score:1)
Why US citizens only? (Score:4, Insightful)
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, announced that he was closing the country's borders to foreigners, with the exception of U.S. citizens.
That makes no sense. US citizens are just as likely as anybody else to have the virus. And besides, Canada already has the virus in their country, so why ban traveling? This makes as much sense as the recent US ban on European travel.
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And besides, Canada already has the virus in their country, so why ban traveling?
Because a number of places have far higher rates than Canada and less people get sick when they are exposed to less different people daily.
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Because a number of places have far higher rates than Canada...
Yes, like the United States.
and less people get sick when they are exposed to less different people daily.
Yes, like people from the United States
Your post didn't really answer any of my questions.
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While the U.S. certainly is affected, it's mot to the degree of many other countries. It probably also has to do with the long border with the U.S. where many people cross in both directions for daily business.
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This. Both the Canadians and the Americans have an interest in keeping their grocery stores stocked, and closing a 3000 mile long border wouldn't help that cause. I expect the U.S. and Canada will both start locking down non-essential movement shortly anyway, so it's not like hordes of citizens from either country are going to be flocking across the border any time soon.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries [worldometers.info]
USA : 13.8/1M pop
Canada : 11.2/1M pop.
China's underreported numbers : 56.2/1M pop.
Europe : hundreds / 1M pop.
"Just as likely" you say.
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That website is using some incomplete figures along with some seemingly inaccurate ones, in Italy's case both.
- Nothing for "Tot Cases/1M pop"
- "Total Recovered" barely exceeds "Total Deaths".
In France's case 12 times as many people are supposed to have died compared to recovered, I suppose that could happen if it takes a day or three for someone to succumb but 12 days to be declared virus-free. In Belgium it is 10 dead and one recovered.
I saw an obituary for "the youngest person to have died in the UK fro
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- "Total Recovered" barely exceeds "Total Deaths".
Why is that so hard to understand?
1. N many people have contracted the virus
2. M many people have died
3. L many people have recovered
N-M-L = People who are still sick and do not have a resolution.
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Every person kept out is no a person who might be infected and spreading.
Thats one less person wondering in the community spreading wuflu for days or longer.
Before they finally get sick and might need hospital.
They might get so sick they need ICU.
Why should any nation look after the sick of another nation now?
Every ICU bed will be needed for their own citizens. Sick, sick with other conditions, sick with wuflu.
Re "so why ban traveling? "
So sick people from one nation dont
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Every person kept out is no a person who might be infected and spreading.
OK, so why are the exempting US citizens?
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Like so US people going to Canada for some reason?
US gov/mil/contractors have to be on site in Canada?
So US gov/mil/contractors can move around passing as normal people on a normal holiday during the full months of wuful?
The maple syrup must flow.
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The border between Canada and the United States is the longest non-militarized border in the world. In order to prevent entry into Canada from the US we would have to build a wall 8,891 km long (that is 5525 miles). That is THREE TIMES the length of the Mexico - US Border.
Enforcing the border would require the posting of about 9 million armed soldiers, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. With a standard duty roster and normal shifts, providing full coverage would require about 50 million people. Not to menti
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Presumably the other 75% are linked to travel to/from other countries? Consider that something like 95% of the cross-border traffic in/out of Canada is with the U.S. So you've got 95% of traffic accounting for 25% of infections, and 5% accounting for 75% of infections. It's pretty clear which one is the priority to ban.
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Canada needs to deploy bears as a reserve force, but don't forget the border to Alaska.
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"Most Americans cant get into Canada....little known fact."
Cliff Clavin, is that you?
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Limiting people's movements has two benefits.
1. It slows the spread of the virus.
2. It stops them travelling around and panic buying all the toilet paper in Canada.
Germany has recently closed some of its borders to all but essential travel for the same reasons.
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"That makes no sense. US citizens are just as likely as anybody else to have the virus. "
And they come stealing trees to make toilet paper.
Everybody has to stay at home, Period! (Score:4, Funny)
Unless you have to go out for a baguette, or walk the dog, or get cigarettes, or go for a walk, or ...
“We are in a health war,” (Score:2, Funny)
Said the president before formally surrendering to the virus on the condition that all the nice beaches in the south could remain semi-autonomous.
"Vive la France," he called from the steps of his private jet.
Dumb decision (Score:2, Insightful)
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I don't agree with many aspects of the decision, but your arguments actually provide a justification for it.
Let's say the average incubation time between infection and the virus actually breaking out is 7 days (just a number, it could be 5 or 15 for all I know) and people need to be hospitalised for another week (another number taken at random). You then have to act 14 days before the medical services reach capacity.
Italy did not, they had no beds or ventilators left and new cases were still streaming in.
Re:Dumb decision (Score:5, Insightful)
The load on the health systems lags infections by a week or more. If you start to try and curb the infections only when your hospitals are already bursting there will still come ten times as many ill and severely ill patients a week later. The longer you wait the harder it gets.
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A dumb decision.
Health experts around the world disagree with that and suggest that temporarily shutting countries down and implementing such social distancing is the single best way to prevent the healthsystem from being overrun.
The virus is still ramping up. This is not the time for this.
This shows that you have no idea what this policy is hoping to achieve or how to minimise the spread of a virus.
What will France do in two weeks when things have not improved? Continue the isolation?
Probably. I mean most of the rest of Europe has decided to implement a similar policy but for 4 weeks instead of 2. Isolation is not that difficult. Greetings from the home office. My wi
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This is a move that should be used when you believe infections has begin to peek and your healthcare system is overwhelmed. None of this applies to France today.
Actually it currently applies, with a shortage of ICU beds and ventilators in the "cluster" zones (>95% of total capacity already in use in Alsace, Haut-Rhin has no capacity left). The result is that the army is now deploying a campaign hospital in Alsace and will start moving intensive care patients to areas that aren't yet infected. Right now, around 6% of confirmed cases in France require ICU/ventilators to survive.
The high death rate in Italy comes from having more critical cases than ICU/ventilators
I am not allowed to leave my house "legally" (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:I am not allowed to leave my house "legally" (Score:5, Insightful)
An epidemic (pandemic) virus is an extreme example for a situation in which selfishness doesn't help at all. You can not fight it as an individual but only by acting in an organized way with all others.