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White House Tells Airlines It May Suspend All China-US Flights Amid Coronavirus Outbreak (cnbc.com) 81

Posted by BeauHD from the all-options-are-on-the-table dept.
The White House has told airline executives it's considering suspending flights from China to the U.S. amid an escalating outbreak of a new coronavirus that has infected thousands of people across the world. CNBC reports: The Trump administration is looking at a variety of measures to contain the fast-spreading virus that has infected roughly 4,700 people across the globe, U.S. health officials told reporters on a conference call Tuesday. White House officials called executives at major U.S. carriers on Tuesday, telling them that a temporary ban on China flights is on the table, according to people familiar with those conversations.

United Airlines, which has the most service of the U.S. airlines to Hong Kong and mainland China with about a dozen daily flights, on Tuesday announced it would cancel dozens of flights next month to Hong Kong and mainland China as the outbreak worsens. The Chicago-based airline said it has experienced a âoesignificant decline in demand for travel to China.â United and its rivals Delta and American are waiving cancellation and change fees for travelers booked to China. The restrictions could affect flights into and out of China, as well as airports across the United States, administration officials said. They declined to be named because no final decision has been made.
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White House Tells Airlines It May Suspend All China-US Flights Amid Coronavirus Outbreak More

White House Tells Airlines It May Suspend All China-US Flights Amid Coronavirus Outbreak

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  • Better order that iPhone now, they get to you from the factory by air not boat.

  • Updated information (Score:5, Informative)

    by Okian Warrior ( 537106 ) on Tuesday January 28, 2020 @08:52PM (#59666410) Homepage Journal

    I made a previous post [slashdot.org] that outlined the situation and stated that there was not much to worry about.

    Since that time (one week - last Tuesday) two new pieces of information have come up that change the situation outlook.

    Firstly, a whistleblower from China has said that 90 thousand people are infected in China, and that official reports are playing down the scope of the problem.

    This is not particularly concerning if you're outside China, the Chinese government underreporting the severity of the outbreak was entirely expected. Because of quarantine measures in the rest of the world, there's probably little reason for concern. The 90,000 figure might itself be an exaggeration, and with the state of MSM reporting in the US it wouldn't surprise me if this is completely made up. It would generate more clicks than the Covington Kids thing last year, and that was a complete fabrication.

    (My personal opinion: It's probably somewhat higher than the officially reported 4,500 cases, but not 90,000.)

    Secondly, and more concerningly, it's been reported that a person with the Wuhan virus could be infectious for up to 14 days before showing symptoms [sciencealert.com].

    If true, the situation could become quite dire indeed. There are 5 cases in the US quarantined, but which could have been spreading the virus for several days beforehand. There are similar numbers of cases in other major countries (Thailand, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Vietnam, the United States, France, Australia, Malaysia, Nepal, Germany, Sri Lanka, Cambodia, and Canada).

    The known cases were in California and Arizona, and California is known for a large homeless population. The SARS virus (another Coronavirus) can survive a few moments when aerosolized (sneezing), a few seconds on a surface (doorknobs, &c), or for up to 4 days in human feces. If the Wuhan virus is similar, then the homeless population of CA is especially vulnerable.

    The 2nd point - that asymptomatic people can be infectious - is disputed, and it's hard to find completely reliable information (given the current state of MSM) so it may not be an issue. My impression is that world health officials think that it's *not* contagious until symptoms are shown, and only Chinese officials saying it is.

    For a comparison situation, consider the MERS outbreak [wikipedia.org] a couple of years ago. There were cases in Saudia Arabia very near Mecca and it happened right before the hajj of that year. I remember thinking at the time "this is the one", expecting that people would get it at the hajj and spread it worldwide. MERS has a 30% fatality rate.

    And nothing happened.

    The Wuhan virus has about 1/4 the fatality rate of SARS, about 2.5%, which is the estimated fatality rate of the 1918 epidemic. Unlike 1918, most of the world has better nutrition, access to health care, and worldwide policies for dealing with outbreaks.

    It's still a very good bet that this won't turn into a world-changing event.

    And of course the situation changes hourly, so... maybe keep an eye on it.

    • Re:Updated information (Score:4, Insightful)

      by mutantSushi ( 950662 ) on Tuesday January 28, 2020 @09:45PM (#59666534)

      If you think a figure (90k) is just as likely made up or an exaggeration, why post it or lend it any merit?

      "Number of current infections" is conceptually a very different figure from "Offically confirmed cases".
      The fact latter figure (4,500) is much less than speculation on current infections is not "underreporting [as] entirely expected".
      Accurate assessment of confirmed cases is important in deriving plausible projection of current real infections.
      Conflating the two metrics does not help acheive any awareness of reality, or appropriately calibrate ideal response.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by gl4ss ( 559668 )

        I live in asia and the western alt-news coverage of the situation seems just silly.

        and guys, of course there are thousands more infected than the 4500. many people wouldn't even go to the doctor even if they were infected, were sick and didn't die. they can't test everyone in wuhan. the reported infected numbers are cases they know because they have tested them.

        also you would think that the fatality rate is like 100000000billion percent. it's not. it's even lower if the 90k number is accurate, think about

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gl4ss ( 559668 )

          I should have said that fatality rate of known hospitalized patients, not that it is the confirmed actual fatality rate which is likely lower as it is said that you can have the virus without symptoms which makes it very unlikely for you to be checked for the infection, which takes your survival totally out from the statistics.

        • How serious it is, is too soon to tell. If the virus has a high fatality rate, and long incubation time, it might be too late already. It could mutate into a strain that is more contagous, and again mutate to a strain that is more fatal. Or it could have short incubation time and high fatality, which would kill the hosts before they can spread it, ultimately killing the virus.

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Indeed, I already had all the symptoms and the pneumonia is only a concern if you already have reduced lung capacity. I am absolutely certain snonhomish county has more infected then they are reporting. Still, other then the sudden onset of pneumonia and breathing pain it wasnâ(TM)t the worst. I have had food poisoning that was more life threatening. Given the long incubation period it was not a surprise. This is exactly how you win the virus game. It was a fast track downhill and then a slow recove

      • Here's why (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Okian Warrior ( 537106 ) on Tuesday January 28, 2020 @11:06PM (#59666722) Homepage Journal

        If you think a figure (90k) is just as likely made up or an exaggeration, why post it or lend it any merit?

        Because people will see it on other news sites that highlight it and give it merit.

        Debunking a claim does not give it merit, censoring it is what gives it merit.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kenh ( 9056 )

        Today, Tuesday, China stated 4,450 confirmed cases.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by eRacer1 ( 762024 )

      Firstly, a whistleblower from China has said that 90 thousand people are infected in China, and that official reports are playing down the scope of the problem.

      This is not particularly concerning if you're outside China, the Chinese government underreporting the severity of the outbreak was entirely expected. Because of quarantine measures in the rest of the world, there's probably little reason for concern. The 90,000 figure might itself be an exaggeration, and with the state of MSM reporting in the US it wouldn't surprise me if this is completely made up. It would generate more clicks than the Covington Kids thing last year, and that was a complete fabrication.

      The Wuhan virus has about 1/4 the fatality rate of SARS, about 2.5%, which is the estimated fatality rate of the 1918 epidemic. Unlike 1918, most of the world has better nutrition, access to health care, and worldwide policies for dealing with outbreaks.

      As of right now an estimate of 90,000 infected seems very believable, and estimates up to 100,000 have already been quoted by other medical experts.

      It is also a bit early to estimate the mortality rate. The vast majority of infected people are still in the process of recovering or dying. Many hundreds are known to be in severe or critical condition in the hospitals, and there are likely many others gravely ill in their homes because the hospitals are overwhelmed.

      This SARS analysis [substack.com] showed an estimated morta

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Mashiki ( 184564 )

        IMHO, China is having their "Chernobyl" moment.

        You're likely right. Sit back and enjoy this little bit of stuff, the virus appears to be identical to a sample from 2018. Wuhan seafood market sample [nih.gov]. And a sample from back in 2018 from a bat coronavirus sample [nih.gov]. There's also something shady from the level 5 lab here in Canada, where a researcher was escorted out by the RCMP due to an official investigation. [www.cbc.ca] And the rumors in law circles here that they're tied to the "thousand talents" program operated by China. That's the same program which led to

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Mashiki ( 184564 )

            That could swing either way, especially with how the CCP has reacted and done things in the past. Remember with SARS they went out of their way to downplay the entire thing, then hid numbers of infections and so on. Now they're panicking just like last time and building several new hospitals which are supposed to be operational within the next week. That kinda smells of something really screwed up.

            Here's another one for you out of Canada. Apparently a women from China came to BC, went to the hospital wi

        • Those two genomes look similar by glancing at them, but they are not. Every single line has differences.
          Example, Line 1:

          1 attaaaggtt tataccttcc caggtaacaa accaaccaac tttcgat
          1 atattaggtt tttaccttcc caggtaacaa accaactaac tctcgat

          They might be related, but they are not the same.

          Here is the family tree to show how it is related to similar viruses:
          https://www.ecohealthalliance.... [ecohealthalliance.org]

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by vix86 ( 592763 )

      The 2nd point - that asymptomatic people can be infectious - is disputed, and it's hard to find completely reliable information (given the current state of MSM) so it may not be an issue.

      There is Chinese newspaper [google translate] [google.com] (take the validity of the article as you will) claiming that a woman infected 5 of her relatives with nCoV and has been asymptomatic. The newspaper says they picked up on this by noting that all of the infected are related but none of them went to Wuhan, only the woman did.

      The Wuhan virus has about 1/4 the fatality rate of SARS, about 2.5%, which is the estimated fatality rate of the 1918 epidemic.

      I don't know why everyone keeps quoting a 2-3% rate. Ya I get that people come to this value by taking Deaths / Current Cases, but this seems like the wrong way to judge this. To me you would

    • which is the estimated fatality rate of the 1918 epidemic.
      Not sure what to think about your post.

      The 1918 flue epidemic came in 3 waves. First wave was low causalities, about the 3% you say, but closer to 5%.
      The second wave nearly had 100% ... 100%!! fatality rates.
      The third wave was around 30% - 50% depending on region.

      Assuming that China has at the moment 90,000 cases is plausible and absurd at the same time. Why the funk would they _underreport_ the severity of the issue? They have nothing to gain by und

  • Comes preinstalled with Plague Inc.

    Costs 100 dollars more which is donated to helping FoxConn workers who lose income due to factories being shutdown

    Manufactured in the India and Brazil factories

    • Supposedly sales figures are up.

      • Considering the entire country of China is playing that game right now. I would hope their sales are up.

        Time to move to Greenland or Madagascar. Depending of course on if this virus prefers warm or cold climates.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ghoul ( 157158 )

          Dont you hate it when you kill the whole world and the 50000 folks in Greenland carry on their merry way

  • The White House previously said the coronavirus was "totally under control." I'm so confused!

  • Uh huh (Score:2, Insightful)

    by PCM2 ( 4486 )

    I'm certain that "the White House" must have consulted with the CDC and other public health experts and scientists before deciding on this course of action. Because ... because .... huhuhuh huhuhuhu huhuhuhu, shut up, Beavis.

    • Re:Uh huh (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Tuesday January 28, 2020 @11:55PM (#59666806)

      Don’t forget Trump wanted to ground all the 737 MAX planes after the second crash and caught a lot of shit. Then the FAA finally grew some balls and ordered it. I’d have suspended flights from China a week ago but it’s too late now. It doesn’t help that LA is having outbreaks of 19th century diseases like Typhoid.

      • Donâ(TM)t forget Trump wanted to NOT ground all the 737 MAX planes after the second crash and caught a lot of shit.
        Fixing that for you.
        USA was the last country to ground them, with more than a week delay.

        No idea where you get your fake news from ...

    • Just stop (Score:4)

      by twocows ( 1216842 ) on Wednesday January 29, 2020 @11:16AM (#59667952)
      Trump does enough questionable stuff that you could fill a multi-series bookset with it. Criticizing something like this, which would be a sensible precaution that any US President would probably consider, just makes you look like you're so obsessed with hating Trump that it blinds you from reason. That feeds the narrative that Trump critics are obsessed and unreasonable and makes people less inclined to listen when he does things that are actually bad.

      If you take issue with Trump, it's likely because you disagree with his politics or dislike his behavior or both. Your goal should be to point out the most egregious examples of poor politics or poor behavior to strengthen your point, not to wisecrack anytime he does anything and make yourself look like a partisan hack. It's why I roll my eyes when my liberal friends make dumb jokes about his hair. It might be funny among people who share that opinion of Trump, but those aren't the people who you need to convince.

  • A flight ban from China will not work.
    People will just fly somewhere else, then from there to the USA.

    The long incubation period (14 days) is a problem. Unlike SARS, airports cannot scan people for fever. One person can carry the virus and have no symptoms, then the disease erupts later.

    The good news is that it is not always severe. Of the 3 cases in Canada, two are recuperating at home (not needing hospitalization).

    • So? If it makes people feel better, and is economically bad for an adversary nation, I say do it.

      Block their ships, too.

    • Easy, just deny entry from people with Chinese passports and hold all future visa applications.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Re "A flight ban from China will not work."...
      Nations can see that "passport" its origin, last use and world wide history... the last in China part is going to be hard to "hide".
      Thats why a ban works :)

      • I’m afraid that there is no worldwide passport usage database, such data is only shared between certain countries (Five Eyes etc) and even then not universally (for example, the UK didn’t have general access to Schengen entry and exit information until very very recently) - unless China has exit stamps and the intermediate stops have entry and exit (or transit) stamps, it’s fairly easy to pick a route which will leave US immigration completely in the dark as to your point of origin.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by AHuxley ( 892839 )
          That would still stop all flights out... and anyone who was last in China.
          Got a permit to be in China? No flying.
          Its very simple with "passports" and the "location" the flight was from...
          Lots of nations do look at every passenger in and out of their nations before the "airport" day.
          Make travel plans and "pay" and the nation the person is arriving in might "know" due to the travel been requested...and paid for..
          That nation can then look back over thats person movements... got Communist China in that l

          • I would so love to see how I "score" in all of these secret totalitarian/"Nazi" databases. I bet they are comically (tragicomically?) wrong far more often than they are right.

            It surely must be difficult to recruit good talent to work on projects that are abhorrent to American values. Perhaps they outsource to China? And secret, overtly-evil projects like that just beg for corruption from top to bottom.

            In the end, I bet the handful of real spies, international criminals, and tewwawists in the world all get

        • Chinese stamp everything they can get their hands on, they absolutely adore stamps, signatures and paperwork. They stamp passports both on entry and exit, plus all foreigners(Hong-Kong border has "Visitors", mainland borders always have "foreigners") need a visa glued to passport. So yeah, it's pretty trivial to tell if a passport has been in China recently or not.

          Besides the point of the exercise is not to close the borders watertight, that is never achievable. The point is to drastically reduce the numbe

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kenh ( 9056 )

      A flight ban from China will not work.
      People will just fly somewhere else, then from there to the USA.

      If only there was a way to check that, like, say, review their passport.

      • Changing one plane to another at a random airport is not stamped into the passport.
        If you ever had left you isolated country: you knew that.

  • Remember the woman during the Ebola outbreak? Not only were there strings pulled so she could come back into the country, but she was wondering around everywhere and anywhere in violation of the agreement she was suppose to follow. Namely: Lay low for a few days just in case you start showing symptoms.

    • Better be quite about that or you will be labeled a racist like they did to people who mentioned the same things you are.

      • You're getting the story confused. Race only came into question because of all the workers who could have come back the only one allowed was white, upper class, and had her state's politicos on speed dial.

  • Creepy Meme (Score:3)

    by magusxxx ( 751600 ) <magusxxx_2000 AT yahoo DOT com> on Wednesday January 29, 2020 @02:26AM (#59666976)

    "Wait, so there's a biological research lab with the exact same logo as the Umbrella Corporation (RLSW) right in the city where the #coronavirus originated, AND corona is an anagram for raccoon."

  • That would be a perfectly logical measure, so I'm sure we won't take it.

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