Lab Cultured 'Steaks' Grown On An Artificial Gelatin Scaffold (engadget.com) 117
Harvard University researchers have found a way to simulate real meat by growing cow and rabbit muscle cells on a scaffold made out of gelatin. Engadget reports: In the body, cells don't just sit there in a pile. They get physical support from water, collagen proteins and nutrients, which help the cells grown and align. "To grow muscle tissues that resembled meat, we needed to find a 'scaffold' material that was edible and allowed muscle cells to attach and grow in 3D," said first study author and Harvard SEAS research associate Luke MacQueen. To create such a scaffold, the team elected to use gelatin, which is made from the collagen extracted from the skin, bones and connective tissue of domesticated animals. It's not only edible, but closely mimics the way collagen adds a succulent texture to meat when it's cooked.
The researchers dissolved gelatin powder into water and spun it into cotton candy-like fibers, then bonded those into a lattice material using enzymes. When rabbit and cow cells were placed on it, they latched on and formed about a square inch of muscle. Cooking and handling tests showed that the texture and springiness of the lab meat was somewhere between a hamburger and a beef tenderloin. The results are promising, but as with lab-grown burgers, you're not likely to see alt-steaks on your plate anytime soon. Scientists and bio-engineers still need to figure out how to grow them at scale in bioreactor facilities to keep up with the expected demand.
The researchers dissolved gelatin powder into water and spun it into cotton candy-like fibers, then bonded those into a lattice material using enzymes. When rabbit and cow cells were placed on it, they latched on and formed about a square inch of muscle. Cooking and handling tests showed that the texture and springiness of the lab meat was somewhere between a hamburger and a beef tenderloin. The results are promising, but as with lab-grown burgers, you're not likely to see alt-steaks on your plate anytime soon. Scientists and bio-engineers still need to figure out how to grow them at scale in bioreactor facilities to keep up with the expected demand.
gelatin (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Lab grown meat could be a more ethical, and potentially cheaper source of meat for non-vegetarians.
Re: (Score:2)
I thought gelatin was a product of animals.... so how?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: gelatin (Score:2)
Its hair. Usually the hair of a pig carcass. Dipping a pig into boiling hot water strips their hair. Waste not want not.
Collagen is a key ingredient in hoof and hair. Humans take it as a supplement to grow stronger nails, Or eat jello. At some point its still going to require some amount to derive from animals. We cant just completely eliminate the hunting of species. Even conservationists will confirm that. However, what remains to be seen is how much collagen is required per gram of lab grown muscle tissu
Re: (Score:3)
No, hair is mostly keratin. Collagen is a structural protein found in connective tissues in the body.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Well, I guess you could grow bone and skin cells to get gelatine ;D
But currently I assume the weight of the gelatine used relative the weight of the final product is less / you are consuming less animal, then again as far as I know they stuff they feed the cells are also made out of animals and if so it doesn't really solve anything as is. But maybe in the future.
As I view Beyond meat and Impossible burgers vegetarian products as pretty poor refined food which can't really be sold with any good health claim
Re: (Score:2)
FWIW, there is vegetarian gelatin. I'm not sure it's quite the same thing chemically, and I know it tastes a bit different.
P.S.: Jello isn't gelatin. It's mainly sugar.
Re: (Score:2)
But lab grown meat on gelatin, which is made from meat animals, is not necessarily cheaper.
Re: (Score:2)
The gelatin is probably the cheapest part. The real challenge is finding the right nutrition for the growing cells.
Re: (Score:3)
Maybe slightly more ethical, I highly doubt it will not have a heavier impact on ecosystems unless you believe the marketing of other fake meats where they simply outsource all the energy-heavy stuff to lower their energy impact, but I also doubt it will be cheaper. You can let animals roam in otherwise uncultivated fields for free and then when they're grown you just have to harvest them. It's a very efficient method of raising protein, vitamins and calories.
This meat will have to be temperature controlled
Re: (Score:2)
For me, the biggest motivation for artificial meat is that real animals don't have to be tortured. I honestly don't care about the environment or health benefits.
Re: (Score:2)
I honestly don't care about the environment or health benefits.
It is very likely that artificial meat products will be less healthy, because they will be optimized for profit, which requires them to be tasty, addictive and made from the cheapest ingredients. Health doesn't even come into consideration, except as a idea to fool you with.
Real meat is perfectly healthy.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm perfectly happy eating less healthy, tasty food, if it means that I'm spared the price of torture.
Re: (Score:2)
Then you'll end up torturing yourself.
Re: (Score:2)
Torturing myself is a choice. On an ethical scale, forcing an animal to be tortured is worse.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I just eat meat at restaurants. I don't even cook at home. But if I DID cook at home, I'd just go for the cheapest meat. Which is always factory farmed.
Re: (Score:2)
Go to your local butcher or farmers market, the meat is typically cheaper than factory farmed supermarket meat. I buy beef at $6/lb when I purchase a quarter rear and that includes all cuts of the best steak, grass fed and organic which sells for $20+/lb at the supermarket. If you go in for half a cow or a full cow with family, you can get even cheaper.
Re: (Score:2)
And the problem is, if successful, this will drive additional species into extinction.
OTOH, I question whether modern cattle could survive on their own, even without predators. Certainly dairy cattle, which I know more about, would face a huge die off. Cows can no longer nurse calves without horrendous medical problems.
Re: (Score:3)
Vegetarians are not necessarily the target market... There are plenty of meat-eaters who would gladly eat a more ethical meat product like myself.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Vegetarians are not necessarily the target market... There are plenty of meat-eaters who would gladly eat a more ethical meat product like myself.
More ethical? What ethics are we discussing? The world has gone crazy. I grew up on a family farm, we raised much of our own meat (Beef, Chicken, Pork) and I don't see ANYTHING unethical in the process. The animals are well treated and we ate pretty well.
Personally, I think this "ethical" argument is a poor one. The argument really is a vain attempt to claim some higher purpose or moral character based on what you eat, which is garbage. If you want to not eat meat, fine with me, but stop with the attem
Re: (Score:1)
Eating meat currently requires you to kill animals, whom if they had any say in it, would very likely say that they would prefer to stay alive and not be eaten. The fact that on your family farm the animals were well treated and happy doesn't change the fact that one day they were killed so you could eat them.
Large scale raising of animals for consumption is doing significant harm to the climate, burning down Amazon for more grazing land, methane production from
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
...kill animals, whom if they had any say in it, would very likely say that they would prefer to stay alive and not be eaten
Likewise with the deer eaten by predators in my area, yet if there weren't apex predators there would be mass starvation and ecological disruption. Indeed, if these animals are thinking beyond their own narrow self interest, they might see that humans are more likely to protect their kind by admitting to be harvested sustainably. I doubt much deep consideration is going on regardless.
Re: (Score:2)
My point was if we could kill less living animals and still enjoy eating meat, I am all for that. If we could use the gelatin from 1 animal to create enough lab-grown meat that came from 2 or 3 animals that to me is more ethical as we are slaughtering less. I like the idea of not killing animals. I also like eating meat, so if lab-grown meat tasted like non-lab-grown meat, and we didn't have to unnecessarily kill (or kill as much) animals to be able to eat lab-grown meat then I am all for it. I'd love t
Re: (Score:2)
Vegetarians are not necessarily the target market... There are plenty of meat-eaters who would gladly eat a more ethical meat product like myself.
More ethical? What ethics are we discussing? The world has gone crazy. I grew up on a family farm, we raised much of our own meat (Beef, Chicken, Pork) and I don't see ANYTHING unethical in the process. The animals are well treated and we ate pretty well.
Personally, I think this "ethical" argument is a poor one. The argument really is a vain attempt to claim some higher purpose or moral character based on what you eat, which is garbage. If you want to not eat meat, fine with me, but stop with the attempts to claim the moral high ground over us folks who enjoy a good steak now and then.
Just because slaughtering animals is a necessary evil to allow us to enjoy meat doesn't mean we can't try and make it unnecessary.
Re: (Score:2)
Just because slaughtering animals is a necessary evil
What part is both evil and necessary ? Animals living in cramped cages isn't necessary. And an instant death by shooting a metal bolt in the brain isn't evil.
Re: (Score:2)
Just because slaughtering animals is a necessary evil
What part is both evil and necessary ?
The part about taking one life to continue yours. Why kill if we don't have to? It's partially why I don't hunt anymore. I didn't enjoy venison enough to warrant killing something for it.
Re: (Score:2)
The part about taking one life to continue yours.
It's a choice whether you want to consider that evil. I don't. It's just a part of nature. Animals do it all the time.
Re: (Score:2)
The part about taking one life to continue yours.
It's a choice whether you want to consider that evil. I don't. It's just a part of nature. Animals do it all the time.
I'm using "evil" not in the malicious, satanic, etc sense but more the unfortunate, undesirable sense. If you can avoid killing there's no reason not to.
Re: (Score:2)
If you can avoid killing there's no reason not to.
How about killing a wheat plant or a tree ? Not cute enough to be considered evil ?
Re: (Score:2)
If you can avoid killing there's no reason not to.
How about killing a wheat plant or a tree ? Not cute enough to be considered evil ?
Wheat has sentience?
Re: (Score:2)
Wheat has sentience?
No, but you did not list it as a requirement for being evil. You mentioned unfortunate, undesirable and unnecessary.
Re: (Score:2)
Wheat has sentience?
No, but you did not list it as a requirement for being evil. You mentioned unfortunate, undesirable and unnecessary.
So, you don't find killing something that is sentient to be unfortunate and undesirable if it can possibly be avoided?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The part about taking one life to continue yours.
It's a choice whether you want to consider that evil. I don't. It's just a part of nature. Animals do it all the time.
I'm using "evil" not in the malicious, satanic, etc sense but more the unfortunate, undesirable sense. If you can avoid killing there's no reason not to.
So, I assume, based on the above, that you are pro-life... Am I wrong?
This is so much hogwash. Killing animals to eat is NOT "evil" in the same way killing unborn babies is "evil". Animals killed for food are generally dispatched quickly with the least amount of stress as possible (because stress impacts the quality of the final product). They are killed for a purpose (other than convince) and that purpose is again, not evil.
Unless, of course, you don't think human life is somehow unique, that we are all animals and not special in any way. In which case, you have a couple of logical problems to contend with. If we are just animals, then why do you not decry the coyote killing rabbits to eat, or abortion as killing too? And if you allow the coyote to kill rabbits to eat, why are you calling it evil that I'm killing cows to eat hamburger?
Either way, logic isn't on your side here.
Pro choice. And I specifically said killing animals is not "killing babies evil". I simply said, when given the choice of getting food from killing an animal or getting essentially the exact same food from not killing an animal, the second choice is preferable from a moral sense.
Re: (Score:2)
To allow 8 billion people to enjoy meat with anything near the frequency that we have grown accustomed to in the first world does necessitate animals living a horrible existence in cramped cages.
Lab grown meat might one day be a way out of this which doesn't involve us all reverting to our great or great great grandparents more austere way of life.
Re: (Score:2)
As others have essentially said - killing for pleasure is generally considered ethically questionable at best. And since we don't need meat, all killing for food is for our pleasure.
What I didn't see anyone else mentioning, is that small farms that treat animals well are a rarity - virtually all meat comes from factory farms these days, and those essentially add lifelong torture to the ethical price you pay for eating meat. If you have enough disposable income you can often choose to pay 2-10x as much for
Re: (Score:2)
Agreed. I don't find life and death "per se", important. I find torture morally abhorrent.
We kill all the time. Mosquitoes, animals etc. It's also why when the pro-life side in the abortion debate harps on about heartbeats, it annoys me no end. Who gives a fuck about just "life"? No one.
But torture is objectively evil. Animals are raised in horrid conditions, get their tails chopped off, beaks burned off, horns cut, are subjected to diseases, cramps, etc. There is ZERO moral justification for that shit.
Re: (Score:2)
I have no problem with killing. I have a problem with torture.
Death = neutral (neither good, nor bad)
Torture = evil
Life is not that important. It's why I don't care about the "pro-life" bullshit. We kill all the time, it's no big deal.
But animals in factories are not just killed. They are tortured. And I have a problem with that.
Go tell that to the lion. (Score:2)
Or to the rotifers and tardigrades (cute animals) you ate with your vegetables this morning. Or the mites and flies you murdered/squashed this night in your bed.
Death is a just as much a part of nature.
It is not a bad thing.
Only city dwellers who are completely out of touch with nature start to believe this deluded tear-jerking shaming SJW crap.
Re: (Score:2)
Or you could recognize that there is a drastic difference in the way animals are treated on a family farm versus industrial farms. I grew around dozens of family farms and they treat their animals far better than the feed lots where I see thousands of cows stuck so they can't even move around.
When people talk about ethics this is what they are usually talking about. On a family farm when you harvest Bernard or Betsy you are thankful for what they have provided, there is a certain respect you have for the a
Re: (Score:2)
There are plenty of meat-eaters who would gladly eat a more ethical meat product like myself.
No thanks. I have no interest in eating a meat product like yourself, no matter how ethical.
Re: (Score:2)
That's fine, don't, but some of us would.
Re: (Score:2)
There are plenty of meat-eaters who would gladly eat a more ethical meat product like myself.
No thanks. I have no interest in eating a meat product like yourself, no matter how ethical.
I see you caught that as well.
Then the thought came to me - how can we make a completely ethics unemcumbered meat product?
Easy - collect the meat cells and gelatin from ourselves.
This has already earned the Jeffrey Dahmer seal of approval.
Re: (Score:2)
There are plenty of meat-eaters who would gladly eat a more ethical meat product like myself.
I wouldn't consider eating you to be very ethical!
Re: (Score:2)
There are plenty of meat-eaters who would gladly eat a more ethical meat product like myself.
I wouldn't consider eating you to be very ethical!
That's what she said.
Re: (Score:3)
Which target market? There are lots of people who would be interested in artificial meat even if it does require gelatin, including me.
Anyway, this is just one step towards the end product, it's research and not something they are putting on the market. Replacing the gelatin will come later.
Yep, there are *dozens* of you! Dozens! :) (Score:2)
I have yet to meet a single person who likes artificial "food".
Everyone knows it is unhealthy and not a real solution, but merely a fad for a very special superset of stupid people, that does not actually exist.
People either choose real meat or real non-meat. Not the worst of both worlds. No matter how much it is currently pushed by media wanting to generate clicks.
In a few years, when everybody has tried it (and gagged) once, it will be forgotten like pet rocks.
Re: (Score:2)
Bread isn't bad.
Yes it is. (Score:2)
Bread does not even qualify as human food.
It is a preserve of highly purified short acellular carbs with next to none of the things required for healthy digestion. It is closer to a drug than to food.
And I am German; bread is our thing.
It completely ruins the digestive flora, favoring bacteria that cause a Leptin resistance and a misdigestion of fats. Which both make you fat.
And it is actually worse than pure sugar candy, as it sticks to your teeth so it can ruin them longer.
It is a nice drug; especially ou
Re: (Score:2)
I have yet to meet a single person who likes artificial "food".
I myself grow organic flaming hot cheetos, and bottle my artisan neon green mountain dew fresh from the spring on the mountain in my backyard.
Re: (Score:2)
I regret to tell you that it's not dew if it comes from a spring. It has to have condensed from the air.
being pendantic with your .sig (Score:1)
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
I think you mean
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Time
I think
Distiraptor / Timeraptor = Veloci
since raptor / raptor = 1.
Re: (Score:2)
How do you get the mountain goats that make the mountain dew all piss in the same place?
Re: (Score:1)
I have yet to meet a single person who likes artificial "food".
Then you haven't met me.
Bring on the Domino's pizza and Jolt Cola please. Both are man-made, and both deserving of quotation marks around the word food. Both are delicious.
As for my marital status, when I first learned to like these I was a single person.
Re: (Score:2)
I have yet to meet a single person who likes artificial "food".
Then you haven't met me.
Bring on the Domino's pizza and Jolt Cola please. Both are man-made, and both deserving of quotation marks around the word food. Both are delicious.
As for my marital status, when I first learned to like these I was a single person.
Even married and in my 30s I still occasionally get the irresistible notion that eating a box of Totino's pizza rolls is a good idea.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Which target market? There are lots of people who would be interested in artificial meat even if it does require gelatin, including me.
Anyway, this is just one step towards the end product, it's research and not something they are putting on the market. Replacing the gelatin will come later.
Correct. Slashdotters getting hung up on details like a gelatin matrix are missing the point. It's just a step in the learning process. I'd be really happy to lose the need to harvest meat, especially as we learn more about some of the animals we eat.
Although I would miss my home smoked beef brisket.
Re: (Score:3)
Modern meadow is already producing collagen through genetically modifies yeast, they use it for leather so it might not be food grade. Geltor expects to produce it for food in 2020 though.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Mark my words: One day they will start growing plants on animal waste & corpses!
Re: (Score:3)
We use animal agriculture waste because we have it any way.
If we had a vegan society the necessary fossil fertilizer inputs wouldn't really change. You'd need more as a percentage of total fertilizer use, but total fertilizer use would go down.
Maybe eventually we'll have a differentiated sewage system, so random industry overflows stop contaminating so much sewage sludge. Then we can close the loop.
Re: (Score:2)
I really doubt that total fertilizer use would go down, without extensive genetic engineering. Corn uses a LOT more fertilizer than alfalfa, and I don't think I've ever heard of anyone using fertilizer on crown vetch.
Re: (Score:2)
Most corn is animal feed. Pasture is generally fertilized, you can't keep taking stuff out at many times faster than the natural rates without putting something back in (we pretend rangeland is exception to that, but I doubt we'll be able to pretend for much longer).
Re: (Score:2)
Corn is reasonable to feed to pigs and chickens, not to cattle. I know feed lots do, and I consider that an inhuman perversion. It's also converted into ethanol (either whiskey or fuel).
Pastures require fertilizer, but a bunch less than other crops. What they do require is minerals. If range requires fertilizer, then it's being overgrazed. (But, yeah, that needs to have an eye kept on it.)
Re: (Score:2)
Gelatin is fundamentally not vegetarian, so I doubt the target market is that enthusiastic.
Neither is meat, which is what this substance actually is -- mussels grown on gelatin scaffolding. Vegetarians definitely are not the target market of this product.
Well meat-eaters are neither. (Score:2)
Meat eaters put a species-appropriate diet above making room to sustain even more people.
We don't want to eat "meat" slime.
And we don't want meat factories either, by the way.
We want you to use contraception!
Re: (Score:2)
mussels grown on gelatin scaffolding. Vegetarians definitely are not the target market of this product.
1. Yuck
2. Saying there's some sentience there to be worried about is a stretch.
Re: (Score:1)
Would you rather have oysters growing on a gelatin scaffolding?
Re: (Score:1)
Neither are the muscle cells but yeah as vegan there's one step to overcome "it's grown animal cells" which may be less problematic and then a second one with "it's grown by animal products" and for those who already consume those there's at-least "it's grown with less parts taking from living beings / made using waste from animals we already killed anyway" but also "is it no longer just slime?"
For those who already eat meat as is it's lose meat so it may not do.
For a vegetarian as it's still made using raw
Re: (Score:2)
"systemic slaughter" (Score:2)
You know that is not necessary, right?
You can just ask your local small farmer and butcher, to do as the lions do.
Life eating life is literally older than photosynthesis. And treating certain life as "special" because it looks cute to us, is a selfish arbitrary choice. You eat rotifers and tardigrades all the time anyway, even if you eat "vegan". Which are both animals, and very cute.
I don't think there is a single person out there, who prefers meat factories. We just can't afford a species-appropriate diet
Re: (Score:2)
Not just cute, we treat life with a higher capacity for suffering as special too.
The fact that nature is suffering isn't a convincing argument to me, nature isn't good ... fuck nature.
Re: (Score:2)
Humans are driven to efficiency. Most meat will come and will always come from factories, where the animals are not killed humanely. Hoping otherwise is wishful thinking.
I don't care about the health or environment benefits. I care about the ethics of not torturing animals. Killing is fine. Torture is not.
Re: (Score:3)
Scientifically speaking, neither are mushrooms (they're not vegetables), yoghurt (biofilms in general could be considered multi-cellular organisms) and cheese (rennet comes from animal guts), but don't ask vegetarians or vegans to be consistent about what they consider a 'vegetable'.
To be fair there are several cheeses (Score:2)
Also, there are several vegetarians who are vegetarian because we don't like meat. Not everybody likes the stuff.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
According to wikipedia, alternatives "include the seaweed extracts agar and carrageenan, and the plant extracts pectin and konjac. "
So maybe these might get used instead in future research; if so the vegetarians can rest easy.
Re: (Score:2)
Gelatin is fundamentally not vegetarian, so I doubt the target market is that enthusiastic.
Don't worry, the gelatin [wikipedia.org] is sourced from dead vegans ...
My favorite! (Score:3)
Jello and steak ... mmmm ... yummm. My favorite.
That's just gross (Score:2)
... is to meat, what purple drank is to fruit. (Score:2)
Do we really have to make the same mistake over and over again?
Ok, I'm exaggerating, to make my point.
But:
No, purified denatured protein powder is not the same as milk.
No, sugar is not the same as fruit.
No a smoothie is not the same as fruit either.
No, aquaculture turbo-greenhouse potatoes are not the same as Peruvian semi-wild potatoes.
No, this is not the same as a grass-fed cow muscle.
In any case, we introduced many diseases that took decades to detect and pinpoint to their cause.
We're still not fully the
Re: ... is to meat, what purple drank is to fruit. (Score:2)
You are a fool. There are no new diseases, we are living longer than before. Infant mortality has improved 50x since just a 150 years ago. I have been eating processed food and had no health problems. 100 years ago people didnâ(TM)t even know what diabetes was, when someone got it they just died within a year.
We canâ(TM)t keep monopolizing vast tracts of land for âoeorganic farmingâ .. organic farming is scarcity oriented technology. Basically it is only for the rich. We need advanced fo
Re: (Score:2)
Infant mortality has improved 50x since just a 150 years ago.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with quality of food, so why did you even bring it up ?
100 years ago people didn't even know what diabetes was,
And today, 100 million Americans have diabetes or pre-diabetes, mostly because of their lousy diet.
Re: (Score:2)
No, aquaculture turbo-greenhouse potatoes are not the same as Peruvian semi-wild potatoes.
No, this is not the same as a grass-fed cow muscle.
No, but if they're close enough, good enough, and cheap enough, then they might as well be. Do you spit out a sirloin steak because it's not a grass-fed, hand reared and massaged, wagyu filet? There will still be a market for "natural" beef, at a premium for those willing to pay for it. For those who don't want or need it, manufactured meat will work just as good.
For example, I've tried dry-aged beef at a high end steakhouse. The flavor/texture difference wasn't noticeable enough for me to warrant the p
Sugar is not the same as fruit (Score:2)
Go look up how they make Orange Juice sometime. They process it so much it's just sugar and then add back in artificial flavors to make it taste like orange juice. They do this because it makes it many times more shelf stable, allowing it to last for months.
And we're already not making humans. Birthrates are below sustainability in all the first world countries. Second world countries are near sustainability with sluggish gro
At last, meat that doesn't smile back (Score:1)
I've got friends who won't eat anything that smiles back.
Finally, a steak for them.
Humor aside, this should meet the needs of those who abstain from meat simply because they don't believe in killing "something capable of thinking or feeling pain" unless absolutely necessary.
Re: (Score:2)
Something still had to die so that we could have gelatin. Anyone whose conscience can be assuaged by this process wasn't really objecting on a conscientious basis to begin with, and they're dumbasses to boot.
Mind you, I'm comfortable with being an omnivore. I've hunted, killed, butchered, and eaten, and I still eat meat. The lion does not trouble itself with the concerns of the lamb.
Screaming does put me off my feed, however, so unlike a lion I like to make a clean kill.
With that said, CAFOs are abhorrent.
Vast majorities here staying short sighted (Score:3)
I think a lot people are missing something very powerful here. A lot of this research is also used in things like 3D printed organ research. I get it, the current hotness is "hippie dippy foodstuff" but being able to grow complex tissue has other applications that aren't so en vogue. This kind of research wouldn't be the first time some research didn't fare well in their original market but instead took off in some other market.
Re: (Score:2)
So ... boneless chicken?
Re: (Score:2)
Like any mollusc. (Score:2)
Ask their leader: Cthulhu.
(Kidding aside: Please stop saying "democrats" or "republicans" like they are two different groups. In actual practive of what their effect is on us, their actions and their coprorate masters are the same.)
Re: (Score:2)
(Looks one way, then the other. Good, nobody's watching.)
"Modern ultra-hatred for the other group is just old school power mechanics wielded by a few elite politicians to gain power. You rage, they spend trillions, their spouses and kids mysteriously become millionaires, functionally for one ten thousandth of a penny on the dollar."
Now to back to hating the other like your masters need you to. Meanwhile they watch baseball games together.
It is not modern at all. (Score:2)
Look up that Göring quote from the Nürnberg trials.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, their corporate masters are different. But that doesn't exactly matter to you. Do you care whether you build the interstellar cannon for Kang or Kodos?
I think it's an illusion. (Score:2)
A dumb cop bad cop kinda game. ;)
Re: (Score:1)