Cases of Vaping-Related Lung Illness Surge, Health Officials Say (nytimes.com) 115
Medical experts and federal health officials on Friday warned the public about the dangers of vaping and discouraged using the devices as the number of people with a severe lung illness linked to vaping has more than doubled to 450 possible cases in 33 states. The New York Times reports: The number of deaths linked to vaping rose to four from two on Friday. The Indiana Department of Health announced the third death, saying only that the victim was older than 18. Hours later, officials in Minnesota confirmed that a fourth person had died. The patient, who was 65, had a history of lung disease, but state officials said his acute lung injury was linked to vaping illicit T.H.C. products.The Los Angeles County Department of Public Health was investigating a possible fifth death, saying on Friday afternoon that the fatality was associated with the use of e-cigarettes, also known as vaping. "There is clearly an epidemic that begs for an urgent response," Dr. David C. Christiani of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health wrote in an editorial published on Friday in The New England Journal of Medicine. The editorial called on doctors to discourage their patients from using e-cigarettes and for a broader effort to increase public awareness about "the harmful effects of vaping." Officials from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention echoed that call in a briefing. "While this investigation is ongoing, people should consider not using e-cigarette products," said Dr. Dana Meaney-Delman, who is leading the C.D.C.'s investigation into the illness.
black and grey market issues... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1, Troll)
apparently air is full of viruses and over half a million people die each year from airborne illnesses, 300,000 from flu, 200,000 from whooping cough, 80,000 from measles, etc.
best not breath that shit, suck an e-cigarette 24x7 because we only have a few hundred cases of illnesses after 15 years.
Re: (Score:3)
vaping mainstream products doesn't kill lungs, that's nonsense.
tens of millions have been doing it for years with no problem
a very tiny handful of people put something bad in their vaper instead of mainstream product. there is no emergency, it's not really even news. Two to four deaths, a few hundred cases of lung problems? that's nothing, it's not a concern. it's all sensationalism probably because some people want taxes.
tens of millions with no problem.
meanwhile, smoking is legal and it kills 7 or 8
Re: (Score:3)
Re: this is as dumb as smoking. (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
"never buy man made fertilizer?"
I fertilize with night soil, which is both natural and man made, you insensitive clod!
Not as stupid. Also a horrible example (Score:3)
First, the best example they could come up with is a 65 year with pre-existing lung disease who "vaped" illegal drugs, mixed with who knows what.
Second, vaping probably isn't healthy - but smoking is horrible. The broad consensus among doctors is that smoking is significantly worse than vaping. Or to put it another way - vaping is not nearly as dumb as smoking.
On a practical level, that means if you don't already vape or smoke, you shouldn't start. If you currently smoke, switching to vape would be bette
Tax vaping! For the children! (Score:1, Troll)
This is all about the taxes. Banning online sales is next, bet me.
Re: (Score:2)
This is all about the taxes. Banning online sales is next, bet me.
Plausibly. Tobacco-generated sin taxes have dropped off slightly [statista.com] in recent years, although they're still a fairly significant revenue stream.
One usual suspect appears to be without motive. Big tobacco is either already vested [opensecrets.org] in vaping, or spending heavily [theverge.com] to get there.
Re:Tax vaping! For the children! (Score:5, Interesting)
Plausibly. Tobacco-generated sin taxes have dropped off slightly [statista.com] in recent years, although they're still a fairly significant revenue stream.
One usual suspect appears to be without motive. Big tobacco is either already vested [opensecrets.org] in vaping, or spending heavily [theverge.com] to get there.
Your first link only shows *federal* tobacco taxes, not State. State taxes make up the lion's share of the tax on tobacco and in many States account for the majority of the price of a pack of cigarettes exceeding even the manufacturer's cut. As much profit as Big Tobacco makes every year from sales, States make more in many cases if not most.
There's also Big Pharma and Big Healthcare that stand to lose on smoking cessation drugs like Chantix and a chunk of money no longer being spent in the healthcare system on treating smoking-related illnesses.
Big Tobacco makes enough money to afford the additional costs of compliance of heavy vape regulation and fines, their vape competitors can not.
You must understand, Big Tobacco has been so heavily regulated for so many decades by a bunch of politicians & bureaucrats that have been heavily lobbied, revolving-doored, and bribed that they are effectively one entity. The power, control, and money are what matters to them most, the people matter only as much as they must for now to maintain power.
Fewer smokers means less money, power, and control for a lot of interests and removes a group that's OK to focus public hate on (damned dirty smokers!).
None of them deep down give a single shit about anyone's health and well being except themselves.
Vaping has already been shown to be less harmful than tobacco, yet some States are already enacting bans on things like flavored vape liquids (nearly all) in a 'think of the children!' crusade and/or enacting other onerous regulations that heavily discourages *all* vaping, not just underage. That's (intentionally IMHO) throwing the baby out with the bath water and forcing many former smokers and current vape users to switch or switch back to tobacco and removing the option for current smokers. Problem solved, danger averted? I think not. Sounds more like the Tobacco Man, the Tax Man, and the Cancer Doctor are protecting their money, power, and jobs.
Hell, it would be worth it to start a government program to give every medically-verified smoker a government-subsidized vape and reward payments for remaining tobacco free. The savings in lives, health, and the overall societal good generated would be tremendous.
Strat
Re: (Score:3)
Your first link only shows *federal* tobacco taxes, not State. State taxes make up the lion's share of the tax on tobacco and in many States account for the majority of the price of a pack of cigarettes exceeding even the manufacturer's cut. As much profit as Big Tobacco makes every year from sales, States make more in many cases if not most.
A downward trend [taxfoundation.org] in State revenue from tobacco taxes is statistically indicated, too, although like the federal tax, it can be reversed by a legislative tax rate increase.
It seems likely tobacco tax revenue is a questionable gain for state and federal governors. The burden of under- and uninsured medical patients falls to hospitals and taxpayers... represented by state and federal governments. Hospitals generally receive nontaxable status for some of this charitable, uncompensated care, but the burden added
Laffer curve isn't completely bullshit (Score:1)
A downward trend [taxfoundation.org] in State revenue from tobacco taxes is statistically indicated, too, although like the federal tax, it can be reversed by a legislative tax rate increase.
However, this can't be done indefinitely. As the Laffer curve predicts, at some point revenues will drop if you increase the taxes even more. New York state and city, for example, has probably passed this point because their taxes are so high that smuggling cigarettes is a major business, over half [nypost.com] of cigs smoked there are smuggled in to avoid the taxes.
Premature death is another matter. Government mandated retirement programs like social security are the real winner.
You're probably right here. I originally read about it in a freakonomics expose thing. It turns out that smoking doesn't actually add that much to medic
450 BILLION Possible Cases (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:450 BILLION Possible Cases (Score:4, Funny)
To be fair, they did recall that lettuce, too.
Re: (Score:2)
To be fair, they did recall that lettuce, too.
Laugh my fucking ass off.
Thank you
Re: (Score:2)
but later those same companies (GASP) sold more lettuce!!!.... being a bit more careful about contamination so they wouldn't lose more money
Re: (Score:2)
Way more people died from tainted romaine lettuce last year as I recall.
Wow! I must be getting old. I need to get out more and hang around with younger folks.
I didn't know that they are now vaping lettuce!
Re: 450 BILLION Possible Cases (Score:3, Funny)
It's because modern lettuce strains are much stronger than the stuff people ate in the sixties.
Lettuce burns (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
4 people? What a tragedy. (Score:2)
It is pretty sudden and affecting young people (Score:5, Interesting)
With smoking you pretty much have wait half your life for the bad news. Here we have sudden spike of injuries showing up in a new product and also in a segment of the population that normally can ingest anything and recover.
The sudden onset of this is remarkable. It suggests something specific might be happening. A specific recently introduced ingedient? and basic ingredient that was contaminated at the factory?
Or mor worrying were just now noticing a pattern that was overlooked before.
Oe even more worrying, the usage is exponetial so there wasn't a cluster of cases till now simply because there are more people using un the last year that there were in the prvious decade.
Anyhow it's nothing to scoff at. None of these scenarios are good.
To me the liklely cause is not a bad chemical but the use of organic non-combusted materials like organic oils. Shove that shit in your lung and it's asking for a bacteria party. Share your device and a particularly viruelent lung specialist will spread through the community. Ironically, cigarettes and smokable marijuana are combusted so no so much bacteria food in the lungs. Nasty chemicals yes but no food.
Re: (Score:1)
>The sudden onset of this is remarkable. It suggests something specific might be happening.
Like an entity with an axe to grind decided to put out a bunch of scare stories in quick succession to achieve legislative goals.
Re: (Score:2)
When sudden spikes happen I start wondering whether they're mixing up causation and correlation.
I mean, these guys probably all drank water, drove in cars, breathed air etc. - but it's the VAPING they had in common and therefore they died BECAUSE of vaping.
We are told nothing of how the "over 18" guy died, and the other died after vaping "illicit THC products" which suggests he may have been burning and inhaling stuff not intended to be burned and inhaled in the first place. Marijuana oil used as vaping liq
Re:It is pretty sudden and affecting young people (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm convinced its diacetyl thats the culprit. "Popcorn lung". The vaping community has long known Diacetyl is a massive no-no. Its a butter flavoring thats perfectly harmless as a food additive, but heated up and inhaled can cause severe lung damage. So the rule has always been never use diacetyl as a flavoring, and to be on the safe side avoid buttery flavors in general (ie dont trust butterscotch etc).
I would not be surprised if some idiotic manufacturers are ignoring this and using diacetyl flavors.
And potentially getting a product that could save millions of intractable nicotine addicts from emphysema or worse, banned.
Re:It is pretty sudden and affecting young people (Score:5, Interesting)
I think the industry as a whole dropped diacetyl as a flavoring several years ago because of the popcorn lung risk, although from what I understand it wasn't likely the amount and concentration of diacetyl in vaping products was much of a risk.
It seems like there's such a spike in problems in so many states that maybe the supplies of VG or other common bulk ingredients got contaminated. It wouldn't surprise me if the THC vapes that seem to be connected to nearly every vaping case were all using a common supply chain, maybe even with non-USP ingredients from overseas.
Re: (Score:2)
From China To Panama, A Trail Of Poisoned Medicine That Killed Thousands 2007-05-05 17:14:33 Posted By: Intellpuke (Read 419 times || 0 comments) Submit to Digg The kidneys fail first. Then the central nervous system begins to misfire. Paralysis spreads, making breathing difficult, then often impossible without assistance. In the end, most victims die. Many of them are children, poisoned at the hands of their unsuspecting parents. The syrupy poison, diethylene glycol, is an indisp
Re: (Score:2)
It has been reported that residue of vitamin E oil was detected in vape products used by something like 80% of the cases that are being currently investigated across multiple states. No causality has been determined as yet, but it is a high degree of correlation with a contaminant.
The scary part is that this contaminant has been found in commercial products (pre-made vape cartridges) as well as bulk and grey-market vape products. That makes it sound like a supply chain problem - somewhere way up the chain
Re: (Score:2)
breeathing any organic oil will make you susceptible to bacterial or fungal infections in your lung. You are just wating for the wrong microbe to show up.
Re: (Score:3)
The sudden onset of this is remarkable. It suggests something specific might be happening. A specific recently introduced ingedient? and basic ingredient that was contaminated at the factory? Or mor worrying were just now noticing a pattern that was overlooked before.
There are other even more likely explanations. The first is simply statistical fluctuations: with only 4 deaths and 450 illnesses "linked" (which BTW is a correlative linking at this point, i.e. someone had a lung issue sometime after they vaped something, which is pretty meaningless in and of itself, especially given many vapers are former smokers likely to have lung issues already) out of a population of a few million users, a raw increase could very easily simply be statistical fluctuations. If on averag
Re: (Score:1)
Vaping is what got me to quit smoking 10 years ago. The people behind this FUD piece can go fuck themselves.
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re: (Score:2)
Vaping is a smaller business than opiates.
No, it's the awareness of the diagnosis? (Score:2)
4 deaths "linked to" vaping, up from 2. Time to declare a National Emergency?
If Slashdot had a gawd, you'd have to ask "How in gawd's name is that sniglet worth an insightful mod?" It also has mod points as flamebait and interesting. None of the above. And of course I remain most disappointed by the lack of earned "funny" anywhere in the discussion. (There is one funny-modded post, but not really, even in context.)
Can an insight be obvious? I remember an old friend (and stellar programmer) who said a revelation was always obvious--AFTER someone pointed it out to you.
What we have her
So 5 deaths (Score:2)
This must be a serious crisis! 37'000 traffic deaths per year are _nothing_ in comparison.
Re: (Score:2)
>"So 5 deaths"
Of which at least one we know is THC and street-bought. What about the others? This type of "reporting" is incredibly irresponsible.
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed. THC is pretty benign, but if you overdo it, it is still a serious issue. Just like anything (including sugar, salt, fat, etc.) if you overdo it. I would say that 5 deaths so far probably indicate this stuff is unexpectedly safe and for sure much safer than smoking. And since people want their drugs (and there is really nothing wrong with that, unless you believe there should be no fun in life except prayer) making them safer is hugely desirable.
Re:So 5 deaths (Score:4, Insightful)
It's probably not the THC itself but whatever God awful solvent the amateur pharmacists used to extract it into the liquid.
Re: (Score:1)
My money is on this. Huffing oil vapor will suffocate you.
Re: (Score:1)
Next up? Tax the crap out of it, ban online sales, require "real ID," maybe "comprehensive background checks," and whatever else. Maybe you have to have your nicotin
Re: (Score:1)
THC is an organic molecule. Perhaps you meant the various alkanes, cycloalkanes, alcohols, ketones, and so on used in practice, when not discussing supercritical CO2 extraction?
But in principle, I agree. People with your level of knowledge know just enough to be dangerous, but not enough to do it correctly.
Re: So 5 deaths (Score:2)
I, for one, stand in awe of Anonymous Coward's superior level of knowledge.
Re: (Score:2)
It's probably not the THC itself but whatever God awful solvent the amateur pharmacists used to extract it into the liquid.
My uncle had a weed pen the other day, said it taste like it had Anbesol . Then he offered me some, I said "nah , i'm good"
Re: (Score:2)
Might well be the case, yes.
Re:So 5 deaths (Score:5, Interesting)
Driving is a known risk and is highly regulated. Legally, you need a license and a car that is registered with the state and meets some minimum standards of safety. Many states require periodic inspections and I'm also required to have insurance or proof of financial responsibility.
And my car has seatbelts and airbags and crumple zones.
True, I could die in my car, but if I do the cause will probably be easily understood.
What we have here are a very small number of very severe cases and up until tonight there wasn't much detail on what they were vaping, at least as far as I had heard. I think it was PBS Newshour where I heard many were vaping lots of different products and also getting black market THC cartridges but there was nothing to suggest the ones sold in legal stores in legal marijuana states were to blame.
It would be nice if they all pointed to the exact same brand. Oh yeah, they did suggest it might have something to do with Vitamin E although it's not certain that's the culprit.
That's reassuring. I should probably quit vaping altogether, but I have one e-cig and one brand of e-juice that I like and I haven't had a problem yet after several years. But they stopped making the particular cartomizers I like so I'm going to have to find something new soon and often it's hit and miss with this crap. Maybe it's not the juice, but something else which leaches toxic chemicals when heated.
On the plus side, it doesn't seem to be affecting most vapers...that we know of anyway. Maybe it just isn't severe enough for most of us to be noticing our health problems.
Maybe in a few more years more problems will show up.
--
And civilization would come to a standstill without cars and trucks, but we could all get by without vaping or cigarettes, even a nicotine addict like me.
Personally, I could abandon driving, but I'd still have to walk along city streets and/or get on a bus which would still put me at risk of being a traffic statistic. This afternoon I saw an old guy on one of those mobility scooters in the bike lane going the wrong way on a street with a 55 MPH speed limit.
It didn't seem very safe to me, but I guess that guy has to get around somehow too.
Re: (Score:2)
"Driving is a known risk and is highly regulated. Legally, you need a license and a car that is registered with the state and meets some minimum standards of safety. "
783 bicyclists and 6,227 pedestrians were also killed.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
And civilization would come to a standstill without cars and trucks, but we could all get by without vaping or cigarettes, even a nicotine addict like me.
If we got rid of cars and trucks with a magic wand tomorrow, poof! Then yeah, civilizations would crumble worldwide. But we could definitely get rid of cars and trucks and still have a functioning civilization. We could even conceivably put all the farm vehicles on some kind of tracks, basically turning farms into gigantic CNC machines. There's nothing which physically prevents it, if you're sufficiently creative.
More to the point, we could definitely be serving the vast majority of business needs with rail
Re: (Score:2)
Epidemic (Score:3, Interesting)
You would think a man with his qualifications would know the meaning of the word "epidemic".
Crisis (Score:1)
14 people died yesterday because they tripped over their own foot.
If this shit is real I want facts , not o0oo0o0oo0 vaping is bad cause you're gonna die , see look at these 4 people ... ever.
Re: (Score:1)
---
Knowing how to swim is actually a lifesaver (Score:1)
Actually, yeah, acceptable losses.
People knowing how to swim actually tends to reduce drowning incidents. Have you read about the stories where a little kid or dog falls into the water and the entire rest of the family enters the water to try to save them and ends up drowning themselves? Tragic, but mostly happens to families where they don't know how to swim.
Crazily enough, people who know how to swim can generally make a better decision(knowing how easy/hard the prospect of going into the water is) to N
In other news (Score:3, Interesting)
Seatbelts and airbags don't make vehicles perfectly safe, either.
As long as vaping still kills less people than plain old cigarettes, it's an improvement in harm reduction. Yeah, vaping is probably not as safe as breathing only air, and traveling in a sheet metal box on wheels at 75MPH is never going to be as safe as walking, either.
Re: (Score:1)
Driving drunk is safer than walking drunk. Haven't you read Freakanomics?
Re: (Score:2)
Driving drunk is safer than walking drunk. Haven't you read Freakanomics?
Modded down?! The truth doesn't sit well with people does it?
Re:In other news (Score:4, Insightful)
It's certainly my belief and general consensus that vaping is less harmful than smoking, but it's just faith right now.
But there may be something that's being added to some vape products that is causing it to be worse.
There was a passage in Timothy Leary's book Flashbacks where he was discussing potential harmful effects of LSD. I read it a long time ago, but IIRC he didn't really believe there were any, but if there were health risks he would certainly want to know about them since he was a frequent consumer of it.
So he was open to the idea that there may be health risks we don't fully understand at the moment.
Have they developed a vapable form of LSD yet?
That's actually kind of a scary idea.
Re: In other news (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Vaping LSD would not be a good idea because it decomposes in heat (source: https://isomerdesign.com/PiHKA... [isomerdesign.com]) and the onset is quite long (20-30 minutes) even when IVed ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com] timestamp 4:17).
Why do you find a vapable form of LSD scary?
Vaping must be very safe (Score:3, Insightful)
15 years of e-cigarettes, yet now only this year a handful of cases pop up, contrasted with the half a million deaths from burning tobacco... in the USA alone!
What is the malfunction behind the politicians and news media and those barking like dogs in the social media kennel to think there is really any problem?
Re: (Score:2)
"What is the malfunction behind the politicians and news media and those barking like dogs in the social media kennel to think there is really any problem?"
Taxes! The politicians have bankrolled much of their state and federal budgets from revenues generated from cigarette taxes. The recent manufactured hysteria is the setup to levy taxes on vaping to make up the shortfall they're seeing from people switching. That'll be the "compromise" for keeping vaping legal.
Re: (Score:2)
They've been looking at ways to demonize vaping for a while now. I'm not sure if it's Big Tobacco or just asshole politicians looking to score some free points, but either way this is a ridiculous knee-jerk reaction to what is obviously a bad batch of e-juice or something similar. There are what, 15 million people vaping now and a few hundred got sick. Then, 4 died - oh noes!
The latest theory is that it's vitamin E based compounds that may be breaking down under heat into toxic components. It's no doubt
Re:Vaping must be very safe (Score:5, Interesting)
They've been looking at ways to demonize vaping for a while now. I'm not sure if it's Big Tobacco or just asshole politicians looking to score some free points, but either way this is a ridiculous knee-jerk reaction to what is obviously a bad batch of e-juice or something similar. There are what, 15 million people vaping now and a few hundred got sick. Then, 4 died - oh noes! The latest theory is that it's vitamin E based compounds that may be breaking down under heat into toxic components. It's no doubt something like that, some fucking lead-based e-juice from China or something like that.
So, we all gotta stop ALL vaping immediately, and if anyone doesn't, the death penalty isn't strong enough! And, they can throw in a "Think of the Children!" angle too, as a bonus - you know, those irresistible "candy" flavors that children are attracted to like zombies to brains. There's just no possibility that adults might actually like something other than Boot or Ass flavored e-cigs.
Then these assholes weakly try to tie THC into it too. Hey, they can kill 4 birds with one stone.
Problem is the distribution of the addictive ingredient nicotine contained in vaping products is controlled by the tobacco/drug companies. So I call bullshit on the posts that claim that it is in the interest of the tobacco industry to destroy the vaping industry, which by and large is being controlled by them in the first place. If we read the facts as they emerge it is the use of oil based products in vaping products that is suspected in the fatal pneumonia cases showing up in otherwise perfectly healthy young people who vape.
Teenagers seem to only vape at first so they can look cool to each other as they blow the smoke around. You see them doing it all the time and even blowing smoke in each others faces to show off. The cool looking clouds of smoke is created deliberately in the manufacturing process by the addition of oils into the liquid. The food safe oils then create residues in the lungs. And this is why they can add oil to the nicotine liquid, because the oils they use are considered food safe by the food and drug administration and are considered to be unregulated healthy food products. What happens when you expose your lungs to the smoke created by burning them seems to be what is occurring to the victims of this industry.
Oil smoke residue caused pneumonia is a known hazard in industry and oil smoke of any kind is regulated in enclosed work spaces because it causes residues to form in human lungs. In this case the nicotine industry is promoting vaping as a healthy alternative to tobacco use to their prime targets which are mostly new smokers who never smoked cigarettes or if they did were told by others that vaping is a good way to quit nicotine consumption. In reality the addition of additive that create smoke is used only to appease the tactile aspect of smoking for newly hooked teenages. In my opinion this is down right criminal activity and as bad as paying doctors to do cigarette advertising on TV while extolling the benefits of filter cigarettes. The bullshit, lies and chicanery of the nicotine/drug industry has not abated it is still legally targeting children and gullible adults with a highly addictive drug and that drug is nicotine regardless of how it is ingested. They are as much of a bunch of sinister assholes as are the Latin drug cartels and going back further than that Air America under the CIA and the American Mafia.
PS. I am an addicted cigar/cigarette smoker, 67 years of age so I remember the Marlboro Man, Yul Brynner, Steve McQueen and the great feeling of being a real man with my first package of cigarettes purchased by me at the age of 10 with money I earned delivering papers. So I will ignore any asshole coming back at me with any bullshit about nicotine not being a highly addictive substance!
Re:Vaping must be very safe (Score:5, Interesting)
I will agree that Nicotine is addictive. I was a 2 pack-a-day smoker for 37 years. I'm 57 and I remember all those things too. That's why I tried and _successfully_ used vapes to stop smoking. I have not touched a real cigarette for 5 years now.
So, don't tell me that vaping is NOT a good way to stop or reduce smoking. I have all the proof I need, and yes I realize that is a small sample, but I know many others have done so as well. No, it's not a CURE or a guaranteed way of doing it, but many many people, myself included, have successfully used it to stop. It's not a healthy activity, but it is _healthier_ than smoking cigarettes, so it's true when they claim that. Yes, Nicotine is addictive, but without all the other combustibles in a cigarette, it is a hell of a lot better than smoking cigarettes.
As for the kids doing it, they are not deliberately marketed to them. Have you seen a box that the commercial ones come in? They don't have cartoon characters on them, they don't have bright colors and stupid mascots, etc. (they did learn from Joe Camel) and the only reasons kids use them is to a) be cool and b) piss off their parents, which is pretty much why most children do what they do. Most of the offensive "kiddie" marketed stuff is edibles that contain cannabis products, I HAVE noticed some marketing that could be construed as "kid friendly" in that industry, but so far none of the e-cig (nicotine) makers have been dumb enough to even try to deliberately reach out to kids. They really don't need to, kids are drawn to it naturally since it's forbidden fruit.
Finally, I mix my own e-juices. I get pure pharmaceutical grade Nicotine and VG. I make sure the flavoring agents aren't toxic oils or don't break down when heated into unsafe chemicals, and I don't buy random Chinese e-juices from a goddamned Gas Station.
Re: (Score:1)
So, don't tell me that vaping is NOT a good way to stop or reduce smoking.
Okay, I won't. I'll just point you at this XKCD comic about survivorship bias:
https://xkcd.com/1827/ [xkcd.com]
Re: Vaping must be very safe (Score:2)
Can we all just stop posting XKCD links? That pap is always pompous, never funny, never insightful.
Re: (Score:2)
And yet you are still smoking, so it didn't do any good did it? But now it's out there to addict children. So your so-called 'reduced smoking' isn't worth the damage it does to kids.
Re: Vaping must be very safe (Score:2)
Who will think of the children?!
Re: (Score:2)
I smoked for 38 years, and used the patch to quit because I saw no need to further put shit into my lungs when the reason I quit smoking was to stop putting shit in my lungs. AND I'm no longer addicted to nicotine. AND I no longer have the expense of a dangerous and useless habit.
Thank you for the considerate reply from an ex addict. I suppose that having been constantly exposed to nicotine since I was in the womb may very well have helped hook me the way it has. Somewhat similar to fetal alcohol syndrome or the child of a drug addict. My two sisters have had the ability to shake off the exposure and do not smoke and never became addicted. But my both my brothers are nicotine addicts. I have learned to not smoke in front of those who do not smoke and I never smoke inside a dwelling
Re: (Score:2)
They've been looking at ways to demonize vaping for a while now. I'm not sure if it's Big Tobacco or just asshole politicians looking to score some free points, but either way this is a ridiculous knee-jerk reaction to what is obviously a bad batch of e-juice or something similar. There are what, 15 million people vaping now and a few hundred got sick. Then, 4 died - oh noes!
The latest theory is that it's vitamin E based compounds that may be breaking down under heat into toxic components. It's no doubt something like that, some fucking lead-based e-juice from China or something like that.
So, we all gotta stop ALL vaping immediately, and if anyone doesn't, the death penalty isn't strong enough! And, they can throw in a "Think of the Children!" angle too, as a bonus - you know, those irresistible "candy" flavors that children are attracted to like zombies to brains. There's just no possibility that adults might actually like something other than Boot or Ass flavored e-cigs.
Then these assholes weakly try to tie THC into it too. Hey, they can kill 4 birds with one stone.
Problem is the distribution of the addictive ingredient nicotine contained in vaping products is controlled by the tobacco/drug companies. So I call bullshit on the posts that claim that it is in the interest of the tobacco industry to destroy the vaping industry, which by and large is being controlled by them in the first place. If we read the facts as they emerge it is the use of oil based products in vaping products that is suspected in the fatal pneumonia cases showing up in otherwise perfectly healthy young people who vape.
Teenagers seem to only vape at first so they can look cool to each other as they blow the smoke around. You see them doing it all the time and even blowing smoke in each others faces to show off. The cool looking clouds of smoke is created deliberately in the manufacturing process by the addition of oils into the liquid. The food safe oils then create residues in the lungs. And this is why they can add oil to the nicotine liquid, because the oils they use are considered food safe by the food and drug administration and are considered to be unregulated healthy food products. What happens when you expose your lungs to the smoke created by burning them seems to be what is occurring to the victims of this industry.
Oil smoke residue caused pneumonia is a known hazard in industry and oil smoke of any kind is regulated in enclosed work spaces because it causes residues to form in human lungs. In this case the nicotine industry is promoting vaping as a healthy alternative to tobacco use to their prime targets which are mostly new smokers who never smoked cigarettes or if they did were told by others that vaping is a good way to quit nicotine consumption. In reality the addition of additive that create smoke is used only to appease the tactile aspect of smoking for newly hooked teenages. In my opinion this is down right criminal activity and as bad as paying doctors to do cigarette advertising on TV while extolling the benefits of filter cigarettes. The bullshit, lies and chicanery of the nicotine/drug industry has not abated it is still legally targeting children and gullible adults with a highly addictive drug and that drug is nicotine regardless of how it is ingested. They are as much of a bunch of sinister assholes as are the Latin drug cartels and going back further than that Air America under the CIA and the American Mafia.
PS. I am an addicted cigar/cigarette smoker, 67 years of age so I remember the Marlboro Man, Yul Brynner, Steve McQueen and the great feeling of being a real man with my first package of cigarettes purchased by me at the age of 10 with money I earned delivering papers. So I will ignore any asshole coming back at me with any bullshit about nicotine not being a highly addictive substance!
All well and good except for your use of the words "Smoke" and "Burn". Neither occur with vaping.
There is no smoke, and nothing should be burning.
Re: (Score:2)
er, there are "organic compounds" in all vaping products including reputable ones. All carbon based compounds are organic. No such thing as a vaping product without an organic compound in it
Re:Vaping must be very safe (Score:5, Insightful)
er, there are "organic compounds" in all vaping products including reputable ones. All carbon based compounds are organic. No such thing as a vaping product without an organic compound in it
The so called "organic" oils added to vaping products precipitate in a form of wax after being vaporized into smoke that slowly deposits on a wet surface like the inside of a human lung. Sure the amount of residue from the smoke is minuscule and can be naturally coughed up the way tar containing phlegm is with a cigarette smoker. Provided the user does not go overboard and smoke their brains out for weeks on end the way many young vapors do! I would have to smoke three packs a day to achieve the level of nicotine and smoke that some of the vapor kids I have seen consume!
The nicotine industry has long known what the minimum addiction level of the average smoker is and has adjusted the nicotine in cigarettes to maximize repurchase of packages. So they have a very good handle already on people who try to cut down. The vaping industry also adjusts the nicotine content of their product to assure maximum repurchase of their liquids set at a minimum daily dose level. I will give you that at first druggists would encourage you to purchase the normal level dose crap and then wean yourself down to the minimum dose snake oil stuff if you were only vaping with quitting the habit in mind. But again the bullshit part of the equations is that the minimum dose vaping liquid sold is at the minimum level necessary to keep you permanently addicted per day and equates again to the average level of nicotine smoking 8-10 cigarettes. The average minimum level of cigarettes that a user will go through who is trying to cut down is 8-10 per day and has long been known by the tobacco industry. They have paid consultants to study user habits and have been at if for years. They certainly know how to keep their clients hooked, as does their much loved new and safer "vaping" industry.
Re:Vaping must be very safe (Score:4, Interesting)
We know about the dangers of smoking. We've known about them for decades. Smokers know it whether they're teens trying cigarettes for the first time or older adults who have been smoking for decades and either failed at quitting or just don't care enough to try quitting.
One of the things we keep hearing about e-cigs is that "it's just water vapor" and it's completely safe. Most manufacturers and sellers aren't quite so bold, but it's what a lot of proponents say. The internet is full of people like that and they tend to be very vocal.
I'm reminded of Eclipse cigarettes made by RJR. They promoted them as "A Better Way To Smoke." They had a charcoal tip and just heated the tobacco. They looked like regular cigarettes, but didn't burn down and didn't have ashes.
Here's a promo video:
ECLIPSE A BETTER WAY TO SMOKE. RUNNING TIME 00:08:56. [archive.org]
They had to abandon that "A Better Way To Smoke" slogan.
FINDINGS OF FACT, CONCLUSIONS OF LAW, AND INTERIM DECISION ON LIABILITY [ca.gov]
The public portion of the Eclipse website repeated the advertising
slogan that “The best choice for smokers worried about their health is to quit –
the next best choice is to switch to Eclipse.” At one time, a version of the Eclipse
website also repeated the phrase “Eclipse – A better way to smoke,” which was
also found in some printed ads and other marketing materials.137 The marketing
executive(s) who testified for RJRT in this action denied that they were making
any claims that Eclipse was a “safer” cigarette,138 but these statements essentially
carried that essential message, and were understood by consumers to make that
point, see below.
I smoked Eclipse for a few years. There was a lot less tar, but there was also more carbon monoxide (according to things I read). Obviously if you replace all your oxygen with CO, you will die but smoking an Eclipse doesn't give you that much CO, so what's the risk? I honestly don't know how the average person is supposed to assess this. I gather it has a negative effect on your circulation but that's not really well quantified...
Trump China tariffs? (Score:2)
I wonder if there has been a disruption lately in cheap Chinese sources for VG, PG, and maybe PEG (which is a cheap solvent used in low-end THC carts) caused by Trump's China tariffs.
The Chinese have been major suppliers to the vaping industry. I think the better juice makers use US-sourced USP-grade ingredients, but it wouldn't surprise me if black market THC cart makers and maybe low-end vape shops have been using cheap, China-sourced versions of these ingredients. With the tariffs, maybe these product
Re: (Score:2)
No, they aren't widespread at all, that's the point. A handful of cases among tens of millions of users, of a tech that is 15 years old.
If any major chinese supplier were the problem, we'd have hundreds of thousands of cases. but we don't. we have a rounding error of about zero cases really.
it's all sensationalism in the news, nothing bad is happening to tens of millions of vapers.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, I'm not thinking a major supplier to legitimate nicotine vape shops or state-legal dispensaries, but some kind of supplier of cut-rate ingredients used by underground labs and low-quality nicotine vapes.
Re: Palatable to kids (Score:2)
But who will think of the children??!!
Disingenuous anti-vaping reporting (Score:5, Informative)
There have been a large number sensationalist articles about the numbers of people who fell I'll because of vaping, and yet in almost all cases illegal or unauthorized additives were involved. THC additives and other designer drugs have always been scary shit even when smoked with marijuana, and now people are mixing them into their e-cigarettes. For some reason the additives involved are mentioned only down in 20th paragraph and never in the title.
Re: (Score:2)
Authorized by whom? There is no list of authorized additives. With the current lack of regulation, anything that is food-safe goes.
Vitamin E is food-safe, I would assume, and therefore "authorized". But being food-safe doesn't make it inhale-safe.
Re: (Score:2)
You might not like it, but there are mainstream vape juice makers that do all the labeling they're supposed to do and use USP ingredients from reputable vendors. These vendors all dropped diacetyl years ago, too.
Some of the flavoring side of things may have some risk, but the concentrations are pretty low. Most vape juice is pretty translucent, which says to me we're talking flavoring concentrations in the mg per decliter range, or a pretty low risk of producing acute harm. Maybe there's some, other long
Re: (Score:2)
Vitamin E is food-safe, I would assume, and therefore "authorized".
Although it's generally dismissed as the natterings of hippie nutjobs, there is some debate over the healthfulness of synthetic vitamin E.
But being food-safe doesn't make it inhale-safe.
Yeah, that too. I like to drink water, but I try not to breathe much of it. Even in suspension in air (and not just floating in it as an aerosol), too much of it is annoying.
hmm (Score:3)
Canada is about to legalize concentrates and oils such as those in vape pens. So hopefully they have some good evidence to share, and we can figure out how to make them safely. It is a bit of a wild west mentality out there, with poor quality control at the moment.
Benefits of thc vape pens is that they generally have no smell, the number one complaint about smokers. They also do not light on fire and cause forest fires, the number two complaint. They dont make your fingers reek, or your clothes. And they are more potent so you smoke less.
Re: (Score:2)
Benefits of thc vape pens is that they generally have no smell,
They do, it's just faint.
Re: (Score:2)
Benefits of thc vape pens is that they generally have no smell, the number one complaint about smokers.
I don't vape juice but the people I know who do have complained that it's actually hard to find unflavored/scented stuff around where I live - ironically, that's coastal Mendocino county.
They also do not light on fire and cause forest fires, the number two complaint.
Unless you hot rod them with no current limiter and they blow up in your face, of course.
"You're smoking it wrong" (Score:3)
I'm not saying that just to be trollish. I made similar mistakes, trying to take long drags through the very narrow tubing of a vape cartridge.
You *must* allow some air to come in at the same time, to keep the vacuum pressure low on your lungs. Trying too hard to inhale pulls fluid into the lungs, from which all sorts of other consequences can follow. If the cartridge is so clogged you can't really draw through it, try puffing it with your cheeks like a cigar, and then inhale the puffs. Your mouth is equipped to handle vacuum pressure, your lungs are not.
Way to bury the lead (Score:5, Informative)
After 2/3rds of TFA going on about the teen vaping "epidemic" and talking about 3 of the patients (none of them teens), they FINALLY get around to saying this is a new thing, not just vaping in general causing a problem never seen before.
Re: (Score:2)
That's part of the surprise, they are passing up an opportunity to speculate on product tampering mass murder, did the FDA do it to justify expansion of their powers? Cheap chemicals imported from China? etc. But no, it's another scary things teens are doing story.
Use a dry herb vaporizer. No additives, just herb. (Score:2, Informative)
Use a dry herb vaporizer like the PAX 3, Arizer Solo 2, or on the cheaper end the Arizer Air 2.
There are no plastic parts that come in contact with the herb or vapor, only stainless steel, ceramic, and on the PAX 3 there is a silicone mouthpiece, Arizer has a glass one.
You put nothing in there except the herb, and clean it with the highest % rubbing alcohol.
These are the best you can get and if cleaned regularly will serve you well and you won't be using any additives at all, just pure herb.
Of course Indiana is going to claim that! (Score:2)
Mechanism of action (Score:3)
Seems to be not bacteria, but lipid laden macrophages: https://www.ksl.com/article/46... [ksl.com]
May be related to: https://medkit.info/2019/09/06... [medkit.info]
Use the MA example (Score:2)
There was a extensive study of e-cigarettes... (Score:2)
A few years ago, the Royal College of Physicians did a very extensive study of e-cigarettes and compared them to every other common form of nicotine intake (patches, inhalers, gum, etc). This study will tell you more about e-cigarettes than you would ever care to know. Even with the lack of any long term studies, they still conclude that vaping is about 95% less unhealthy than cigarettes. It's really worth a read.
Study can be found here:
https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/pr... [rcplondon.ac.uk]
Re: (Score:2)
wow.