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Space

Sheriff Warns Angry Locals To Vacate Houses Before SpaceX's 'Starhopper' Test (businessinsider.com) 121

Posted by EditorDavid from the testing-in-Texas dept.
An anonymous reader quotes Business Insider: A small community of people at the southern tip of Texas just received what some of its residents are calling a "shocking" and "concerning" warning about SpaceX's upcoming launch attempt of a Mars rocket ship prototype. Residents told Business Insider a county sheriff went door-to-door on Saturday night to hand-deliver printed notices to the community, where approximately 20 people own homes...

The notice says "action required" and warns of "potential risk to health and safety" during SpaceX's upcoming launch attempt of Starhopper: a stubby yet roughly 60-foot-tall (18-meter-tall) steel prototype with a single, truck-size Raptor rocket engine... The notice issued to residents says police will sound their sirens to warn residents about 10 minutes before liftoff. According to the notice, a roughly 15-minute flight window will open at 5 p.m. ET (4 p.m. CT) on Monday night. The notice then says:

"There is a risk that a malfunction of the SpaceX vehicle during flight will create an overpressure event that can break windows. Therefore, in order to protect Public Health and Safety, it is recommended that you consider temporarily vacating yourself, other occupants, and pets, from the area during the Space Flight Activities. At a minimum, you must exit your home or structure and be outside of any building on your property when you hear the police sirens which will be activated at the time of the Space Flight Activity to avoid or minimize the risk of injury."

An "overpressure event" is a blastwave that's often caused by a rapid explosion...

The public health and safety notice comes about a month after SpaceX's most recent launch of Starhopper. That flight inadvertently ignited a grass fire that burned through more than 100 acres of coastal wildlife refuge, thousands of acres of which surround the launch site and hamlet. SpaceX has responded to the incident by putting together a better fire-prevention and response plan, according to Bryan Winton, manager of the Lower Rio Grande Valley national wildlife refuge at the US Fish and Wildlife Service. SpaceX is now coordinating more closely with local agencies on its launch plans and fire safety, has installed five new remote-control water cannons on its launchpad to douse flames (there used to be only one), is helping perform controlled burns, and more, Winton told Business Insider on Thursday.
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Sheriff Warns Angry Locals To Vacate Houses Before SpaceX's 'Starhopper' Test More

Sheriff Warns Angry Locals To Vacate Houses Before SpaceX's 'Starhopper' Test

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  • Why are they testing this there? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by anarcobra ( 1551067 ) on Sunday August 25, 2019 @04:37PM (#59123706)
    Couldn't they find a nice deserted desert where there aren't houses within range of an "overpressure event"?
    • They did but an over flight showed 7 people and a broken down boat living there.

    • Go hop on google maps and check it out. It is deserted. There is nothing for a good 4 miles from the launch pad. "Approximately 20 people" is 5 shacks which could house up to 4 people each.

      There aren't a lot more deserted places in the US that are close to the equator. People tend to like to live on the ocean where the weather is nice.

      • Um, I just looked, and there are about 40 homes just over 2.5 km from the site.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *
          Yeah well this kind of thing happens. Tell people there's a place where 7000 people work and suddenly you get people interested in opening gas stations and restaurants and all these places need employees too and before you know it a little town springs up overnight. But you can hardly blame the company for that - it was pretty deserted when they put SpaceX there.

          • Tell people there's a place where 7000 people work and suddenly you get people interested in opening gas stations and restaurants and all these places need employees too and before you know it a little town springs up overnight.

            Yeah, I've played SimCity too.

    • Re:Why are they testing this there? (Score:5, Informative)

      by lgw ( 121541 ) on Sunday August 25, 2019 @06:25PM (#59123908) Journal

      You know, "deserted" and "infrastructure" don't really happen together. Boca Chica, Texas, is pretty close, though. You'll notice all of 20 people need to step outside during the test.

      Also worth pointing out since TFS was deliberately misleading: the brush fire happened because local government didn't let SpaceX clear the brush around their property. They did offer. Well, the brush is cleared now.

      This isn't just a test facility, it's one of two sites where Starship will be built. It needs to be on the coast, so that the rocket can travel by barge to the KSC. This stretch of Padre Island is pretty much as good as you can get to combine "on the coast" and "deserted".

      • I mean, they could go and pay those 20 people $500,000 a piece to move away. It'd cost less than the fuel they're going to use and would respect private property rights. But no, it's always big companies get to ignore the property rights of individuals.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by lgw ( 121541 )

          Any time you buy a house near a large stretch of undeveloped land, you're taking this risk. That's on you. I'd much prefer SpaceX as a neighbor to a hog farm, a prison, or a toxic waste dump.

          • Any time you buy a house near a large stretch of undeveloped land, you're taking this risk.

            That's not true. That's why civilized places have zoning laws.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by lgw ( 121541 )

              Zoning laws are a thing of big cities, and don't apply to most land in America (well, I think most land is government-owned now, but most of the rest),

      • the brush fire happened because local government didn't let SpaceX clear the brush around their property

        The local government didn't let SpaceX clear brush because they built their spaceport in a fucking wildlife refuge. The brush is the whole point, they should have been forced to replace the brush after they destroyed it.

    • Why are they testing this there?

      Orbital mechanics. And if you're capable of grasping that, you wouldn't have asked the question.

    • They tried. There's an ideal location in New Jersey.

      Community representative, John Smallberries said, "It is not right to subject a temporary homestead to needless damage due to primitive rocketry."

  • “Overpressure event” (Score:4, Funny)

    by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Sunday August 25, 2019 @04:44PM (#59123724)

    Seriously? Why is SpaceX so in love with using euphemisms like that?

    I suppose it’s better than “in case of rapid unplanned disassembly”...

    • Re:“Overpressure event” (Score:5, Funny)

      by Rei ( 128717 ) on Sunday August 25, 2019 @05:19PM (#59123790) Homepage

      The whole rocketry industry loves euphemisms, and always has. My favourite is "lithobraking maneuver". ;)

    • Seriously? Why is SpaceX so in love with using euphemisms like that?

      Likely because it's considered to be poor form to tell people you are launching what could potentially be a bomb that could obliterate a town. People that don't understand science get very flailing-arms-and-screamy about such facts.

    • Remember, they're the next generation of an industry that coined "Controlled descent into terrain."
      I'm not surprised.

      • India doing "soft landing" on moon in a week's time. Isn't landing by definition soft? (the other is crashing/colliding/ramming into). Good it's not "controlled/ programmed soft landing"
      • "Controlled" as opposed to "uncontrolled". Meaning the crash didn't happen because steering broke down, but rather because pilot's perception was impaired (by fog, faulty instruments, or whatever other reason), and so he was unaware of the proximity of "terrain".

    • Seriously? Why is SpaceX so in love with using euphemisms like that?

      This is news to you because you're not a nerd, but that is how all engineers who do something important talk.

      They use those big fancy words because they mean very clear, specific things.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Nite_Hawk ( 1304 )

        I don't mind the euphemisms so much, but jargon irritates me. I find many engineers talk this way not because they do something important but because it makes them *feel* important. When you take the time to speak plainly to people, even those without significant computing background can often get the idea behind what you are saying. Throwing a bunch of jargon and peculiar phrasing in the mix is just a way to talk down to people that don't use the vocabulary regularly and I find the practice distasteful.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *

          I find many engineers talk this way not because they do something important but because it makes them *feel* important.

          Nah it's because they don't get out much and most of the other people they interact with are also specialists. They're not in sales. They're not in customer service. The jargon becomes the language of choice out of habit and because it really is the most efficient way to specifically describe a problem. There's a difference between the pimply kid who is trying to show off to you at an electronics store and someone who has been working in a professional environment for years.

          • They probably get out all the time, they just don't see any utility in having people ignorant of what they're talking about pretend they understand it. They use bigger words because they intend narrower, more specific meaning. Using small words to trick people into thinking they understood isn't obviously a valid use case for communication. They recognize that it is different in sales, but they didn't choose that and don't have to do it.

            It is the same in other things that are specialized. Mycologists and mu

    • what's wrong with kaboom?

    • Seriously? Why is SpaceX so in love with using euphemisms like that?

      They aren't. They are using standard industry terms.

  • So the normal emotional state is angry for the locals. Did they get angrier when the Sheriff produced the notice? I can't ascertain that from the headline...

  • Money talks! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by NewtonsLaw ( 409638 ) on Sunday August 25, 2019 @05:03PM (#59123758)

    FFS... SpaceX gets to engage in things which are so potentially dangerous that homes have to be evacuated -- but I can't fly my little toy drone without registering and (soon) sitting a test to prove my competence?

    Compare the risk profiles of these two different activities.

    He who pays the piper calls the tunes I guess :-(

    • FFS... SpaceX gets to engage in things which are so potentially dangerous that homes have to be evacuated -- but I can't fly my little toy drone without registering and (soon) sitting a test to prove my competence?

      SpaceX also had to register and prove their competence every step of the way before they could get to this point. This isn't their first rodeo. [5secondfilms.com]

      • But no amount of mitigation can reduce the risk associated with SpaceX's activities to those associated with a toy drone in someone's back yard.

        • But no amount of mitigation can reduce the risk associated with SpaceX's activities to those associated with a toy drone in someone's back yard.

          The FAA doesn't care about drones in your back yard. They care about drones near airports or otherwise in flight paths.

        • What if you knew the toy drone was owned by somebody who had been in repeated trouble for (successfully) building DIY nuclear power stations out of discarded smoke detectors.

          And if the only other thing you knew was that he had been telling everybody who would listen, for a couple years, that it is the most exciting project he's ever worked on.

          Are you still sure?

        • Your toy drone in your back yard also has much lower potential benefits for the government than a cheap heavy launch vehicle would have.

        • But no amount of mitigation can reduce the risk associated with SpaceX's activities to those associated with a toy drone in someone's back yard.

          And the toy drone has correspondingly less potential benefit to society. Toy drones as a whole have enormous benefit (due to the large numbers), and as a whole they also pose enormous risks (due to the large numbers). All in all, the balance of risk vs reward and associated requirements for mitigating risk seem reasonable, as long as the drone test isn't too onerous or expensive.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by lgw ( 121541 )

      FFS... SpaceX gets to engage in things which are so potentially dangerous that homes have to be evacuated -- but I can't fly my little toy drone without registering and (soon) sitting a test to prove my competence?

      FFS, SpaceX did a fuckton more than "registering" and "sitting a test". There are literally hundreds of pages of documentation involved in the permitting for each test, and the FAA requires rockets to be proven in incremental stages before each test is allowed.

      SpaceX is allowed to do the 200m test because their 20m test was successful (and they submitted hundreds of pages of paperwork). SpaceX was allowed to do the 20m test because their tethered test was successful (and they submitted hundreds of pages o

    • Texas licensed that area for SpaceX to do their business. Their business happens to have the potential for rapid unplanned disassembly of big tanks of liquid fuel and oxidizer.

      If the people of Texas don't want this business there, they should take it up with the government that licenses and regulates such business. It's not a huge surprise that experimental rocketry involves the risk of a rocket detonating, after all. That's kind of been a known quantity since the shitty failed rockets of the 1950s befor

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *
      Pretty sure SpaceX did a lot more than just "register".

  • Seems prudent (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Gravis Zero ( 934156 )

    Emotions aside, this is a prudent decision. It may not be popular with the locals but I'm sure they also don't want to be in their houses when the the controlled bomb becomes and uncontrolled bomb and sends glass shards into them at supersonic speeds.

    Just be glad they are warning of a possible negative outcome instead of acting surprised if something goes wrong.

    • It's a 15 minute event. If you don't have any windowless rooms, you can sit in a closet for 15 minutes.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sjames ( 1099 )

      Sure, but it's not hard to see why people might not be too happy with "you should stand outside in case we blow something up and blow all your windows to pieces".

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *

        What's real easy is to be a keyboard warrior thinking up BS reasons to support a futile argument. If a chemical plant moves in next door to me I realize it is designed and operated by imperfect humans and there is risk of major inconvenience to me. Therefore I have a choice - to fight to prevent them putting the plant there (too late) which I can win or lose. Assuming they're there, I lost. Another choice then remains. I can move away, or stay. If I move away then it's understood the chemical plant will not

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by sjames ( 1099 )

          You seem to be replying to a whole lot more than I said. Let me re-iterate the salient comment with annotation:

          The few residents were told to "Go stand outside IN THE BLAST ZONE for their safety." Can you not see why some people might find that a bit concerning?

          As for the whole state voting on this, two wolves and a sheep voted on what's for lunch.

          • The few residents were told to "Go stand outside IN THE BLAST ZONE for their safety." Can you not see why some people might find that a bit concerning?

            It's a blast of air, like a sudden gust of high wind. It's less dangerous than the lightning strike in my back yard last night. It's only made dangerous by the possibility of breaking and accelerating glass. If you've ever walked around on a windy day in the midwest, you've already withstood the equivalent. Yeah, sometimes it gets so windy here you can lean on the wind. It's dangerous, sure, but you live with it. Just like those people. They knew who had moved in down the road. They're reportedly fa

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by sjames ( 1099 )

              I'm guessing you have never been hit by the pressure wave from an explosion. It is nothing like wind. Here's a hint, ALL of the damage from an explosion is the result of that "wind".

              I'm not saying the overpressure that might be expected in this case is necessarily dangerous (absent flying glass), but I'm guessing the residents aren't experts on the physics of the situation. All they hear is explosion, flying glass, go stand outside IN it. *I* know that's probably fine, but I also know that without significa

  • The Sacrifices of Living in America (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Arzaboa ( 2804779 ) on Sunday August 25, 2019 @05:19PM (#59123788)

    In small towns like this in America the chances are high that all of the residents and the Sheriff have known each other since at least pre-school. In small towns like this in America, when you have a party on Friday you go door to door and tell everyone. In small towns like this in America, they just got rid of party lines 15 years ago. It is highly likely that 19/20 of these folks are not on Twitter daily. Going door to door in these beautiful places simply means that the U.S. Postal service doesn't work well and most folks don't use the phone.

    "Angry local residents" could very well mean one family, who I'm certainly not discrediting. Unfortunately, the reality is that this is the reality of corporate America. The folks in cities have been overrun with this stuff for years. Oil and Gas has drilled and spilled in more than 20 peoples back yards just in the last year. People shoot out each others windows daily. I get why they're angry.

    While its terrible their windows might be blown out by a rocket blowing up once a year, just think of all of the folks that live with the fear their windows will blown out daily by gunfire.

    --
    A system of morality which is based on relative emotional values is a mere illusion, a thoroughly vulgar conception which has nothing sound in it and nothing true. -- Socrates

  • The public health and safety notice comes about a month after SpaceX's most recent launch of Starhopper. That flight inadvertently ignited a grass fire that burned through more than 100 acres of coastal wildlife refuge, thousands of acres of which surround the launch site and hamlet. SpaceX has responded to the incident by ...

    ... renaming their ship, "Grasschopper".

  • Did they just ignore the calm ones? Why focus on the angry ones?
  • I hope someone hangs around to make the obligatory YouTube video

    • I hope someone hangs around to make the obligatory YouTube video

      There's at least two YouTubers who have effectively taken up residence down there for the express purpose of livestreaming SpaceX tests via cellular data. They use tripod-mounted cameras with BIG zoom lenses, since they're not allowed to get particularly close.

  • Boca Chica Village (Score:5, Informative)

    by OldMugwump ( 4760237 ) on Sunday August 25, 2019 @06:44PM (#59123962) Homepage
    https://www.google.com/maps/pl... [google.com] "Boca Chica Village". Two dozen houses, half owned by SpaceX. The rest are empty this time of year, except for two occupied by rocket nuts who hang around specfically to be near the SpaceX launch pad. There's one couple that's there only in the winter - they love complaining to the local media. I know most of these people personally.

    • I know most of these people personally.

      Which of the people described is you? (I'm guessing one of the rocket nuts)

    • Look at the street view images. See those PVC pipes coming out to the street? That's for fresh water delivery. Too far from a city for city water, too close to the ocean for a well.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by whoda ( 569082 )

      I count 37 homes.

  • Warning them, advise them and then get the hell out of the way.

  • I believe SpaceX, or any other space corporation for that matter, should have control (as in own the damn property) that surrounds their launch pads if there is any chance at all that there will be shrapnel, fire, an "over pressure event" or an outright crash during a launch or recovery. Sending the sheriff out to people's fucking homes telling them to vacate during a launch is a good way to get your shit shutdown via a court order. And, progress and corporate profits be damned, I hope they do. It's bad
    • The area's rather large and it's kind of nonsense. Imagine if we had to control the entire flight path of planes such that they own all the stuff on the ground over which they fly.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by bjwest ( 14070 )
        Planes don't explode with enough force to shatter windows several miles away, and rarely crash in-flight in populated areas. Besides NASA has huge buffer zones around their launch sites, no reason the private space agencies can't as well. Of course, if you believe in profits over public safety, then you go right ahead and purchase a house next to a space launch site.

        • Rockets aren't supposed to detonate, either. Planes aren't supposed to crash. Surprise: sometimes there are mechanical failures. Sometimes planes take off and go right off the end of the runway, toppling end-over-end and then exploding.

          NASA's Kennedy Space Center sits on 125,000 acres, which is about an 8 mile circular radius:

          Approximately one-third of Hancock County is NASA Buffer Zone. The 125-thousand acres were purchased by the federal government for more than 18 million dollars. Private citizens still own land in the buffer zone. NASA allows them to farm cattle, grow timber and mine dirt, but they need special permission to build anything.

          A failed launch 2 miles from Boca Chica is a pretty big boom. So is a launch veering off-course about 10 miles, falling near to earth, and detonating over a populated urban cen

  • Space X wants to engage in a test. So instead of demanding *they* mitigate the potential harm or conduct the test in a more isolated area, the powers that be instead snap to attention and proceed to have the local mounties issue directives to property owners to take cover.

    And of course if there is property damage then the State and Space X will be the first to step up and compensate owners, right? They wouldn't possibly think about fending off claims by hiding behind sovereign immunity or their status a

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