Many Animals Can't Adapt Fast Enough To Climate Change (wired.com) 214
A new paper in Nature Communications, coauthored by more than 60 researchers, sifted through 10,000 previous studies and found that the climatic chaos we've sowed may just be too intense for many animals to survive. From a report: Some species seem to be adapting, yes, but they aren't doing so fast enough. That spells, in a word, doom. To determine how a species is adjusting to a climate gone mad, you typically look at two things: morphology and phenology. Morphology refers to physiological changes, like the aforementioned shrinking effect; phenology has to do with the timing of life events such as breeding and migration. The bulk of the existing research concerns phenology. The species in the new study skew avian, in large part because birds are relatively easy to observe. Researchers can set up nesting boxes, for instance, which allow them to log when adults lay eggs, when chicks hatch, how big the chicks are, and so on. And they can map how this is all changing as the climate warms.
By looking at these kinds of studies together, the authors of the Nature Communications paper found that the 17 bird species they examined seem to be shifting their phenology. "Birds in the Northern Hemisphere do show adaptive responses on average, though these adaptive responses are not sufficient in order for populations to persist in the long term," says lead author Viktoriia Radchuk of the Leibniz Institute for Zoo and Wildlife Research.
By looking at these kinds of studies together, the authors of the Nature Communications paper found that the 17 bird species they examined seem to be shifting their phenology. "Birds in the Northern Hemisphere do show adaptive responses on average, though these adaptive responses are not sufficient in order for populations to persist in the long term," says lead author Viktoriia Radchuk of the Leibniz Institute for Zoo and Wildlife Research.
Maybe (Score:3)
But focussing on the birds that stay around to study doesn't mean that the smart birds aren't flying somewhere else, where it is better for them while scientists study the stupid ones who will die out.
It's usually only a few, sometimes _very_ few, who adapt and who are the parents of the new future generations.
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Birds aren't that smart, for the most part. They go back to the same places over and over and if you destroy those habitats they just die. The ones that survive by moving do so by accident rather than by being smart.
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I am starting to feel that I am the bird in this story and Slashdot is the habitat,
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"This is a global phenomena. There is no place that is going to be magically "better" as the Earth warms and unprecedented Arctic circle wildfires destroy even pristine glacial habitats untouched by mankind. You're just too stupid to understand."
Well, you call it 'glacial' so it must be cooler than New York.
Die then. 99% of all species go extinct. (Score:2, Insightful)
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As an aside
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So if you didn't vote for her, and didn't vote for Trump, then you didn't vote at all. I find it absolutely amazing that NO ONE voted for Trump but he won the election. Must be the Russians, they all voted for him. MSM is hellbent on demonizing Russia, because America needs another war to keep afloat.
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Congratulations you FAILED the basic intelligence test.
What are 'third party candidates', Alex?
Better get your nanny to give you a ride down to Pride Industries, that's the only company I know of that employs people with an IQ of 75.
Be glad you're not standing in front of me right now.
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Americans are the only people that have successfully reduced their CO2 output.
And the Chinese have the ability to go nuclear without all those wasted years trying to talk the yammerheads into accepting modern technology. When China wants to build something, it just goes out and does it.
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You just might as well say foreigners breed like insects and should die. Speaking of insects they will adapt a whole lot quicker than those things that prey upon them and will not respect borders as the swarms move to find new stuff to feast off, including you.
Why not just kill off all the psychopaths and narcissists first, I am sure the rest of us will have a far easier time then.
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Workers react with violence, wars and genocides
And then turn to demagogues like Trump who give them easy answers:
"It's not your fault, it's their fault.
Just get rid of them and everything will be all right".
Re:^ KILL THIS FAGGOT ^ - No (Score:2)
Has to do with mobility and range (Score:3)
Birds literally can change flight paths and regions, and by doing so, aid plants in adapting (they eat them and the seeds fall out of their scat).
Small mammals like pikas are range bound, living near mountain peaks. They tend to move up or down, but when they are at the peak, find it difficult to migrate to another mountain if they're living in very high mountains.
Larger mammals can migrate, but risk predation by doing so. Frequently this involves moving large segments of entire herds by helicopter, and this has been done for bison and moose and elk and wolves and bears.
Fish can move, but are impacted by not doing so quickly. One method is to move farmed fish or hatchery fish further north/south to where they will need to be, thus reducing both wild/hatchery competition and due to eventual intermixture at sea, moving the species. Stream/lake bound fish need to be stocked in their new locations, which humans are resistant to doing. The act of stocking can also move plants fish use.
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Marie Antoinette: "Let them call Uber".
I don't know what's scarier, climate change (Score:1)
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or an entire army of bison and moose and elk and wolves and bears with helicopters migrating. Who even gives bison and moose and elk and wolves and bears helicopters? That's just crazy.
Oh, please, we've been doing this for decades in BC, AB, WA, ID, MT, OR, and CA.
Stop pretending it's a big deal.
Oh, and did I mention they're in the Top Gun sequel? One is Tom Cruise's wingman, callsign Bi-Son.
Much much more complicated (Score:2)
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There's a difference between dealing with what the climate deniers already caused, which is the baked in climate change, and giving up.
The main problem is the longer you all take to wake up and realize this will keep getting increasingly worse, the more expensive all of this will be.
But it's not impossible, just becoming more and more expensive.
On the other hand, 80 percent of insect species are pretty much doomed. Nobody ever really cared about them.
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Re:Has to do with mobility and range (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, they do.
Have you literally no idea what environmental scientists do?
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Lol, AC telling me what we do. It is to laugh.
Would you like me to send you a brochure?
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You are an environmental scientist today? So hard to keep track. Other days you are an expert on cybersecurity, a software developer, a climatologist, a fucking circus clown is surely next.
Well, when I was a kid, I did rodeo work, so I guess you have a point. But I never wore the red nose. I leave that to professionals like you.
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Also, are you seriously telling me you've only had one job in your life, or one career, or is it that you still live in your mom's basement?
Yep many critters (Score:3)
Just my 2 cents
then we'd better get hot (Score:4, Interesting)
Not the worst that's happened. (Score:3)
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We must protect {arbitrary animals} from {selected arbitrary environmental pressures} for the benefit of {other arbitrary animals}, in a manner that gives us {arbitrary paychecks}.
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but life is still here
No, "still here" is not an accurate way to describe that. "Life came back eventually."
Life will come back from this too, that is true.
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Many animals couldn't adapt to the Chicxulub impact fast enough either, but life is still here 66 million years later.
This happened because at the time there were no humans around with the observational technology to see Chicxulub coming, and no Elon Musk with the engineering tech to bat it aside in time.
Life adapts to changing conditions. Intelligent life with technology adapts even faster.
Great, so (Score:2)
I guess we need to jump in that time machine to skip over the next million years then.
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Most people feel that there is a moral difference between a natural disaster that they have no ability to control, and causing a disaster that they could have taken steps to avert.
This happens since a long time (Score:2)
Not exactly news (Score:2)
It just adds evidence to the established scientific knowledge:
Climate change 10,000x faster than evolution [seeker.com]
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Recent study found no evidence of human caused glo (Score:2)
the climatic chaos we've sowed
[citation needed]
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https://www.ipcc.ch/ [www.ipcc.ch]
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https://www.researchgate.net/s... [researchgate.net]
https://www.utu.fi/en/people/j... [www.utu.fi]
The IPCC reports are made up of thousands [wikipedia.org] of peer reviewed studies. The latest one is made up of 9200 peer-reviewed studies. I'll go with those 9200 over your one, probably fake one, thanks.
Can't or won't ... (Score:2)
Many Animals Can't Adapt Fast Enough To Climate Change
Congresscritters seem especially resistant.
are there really this many deniers here? (Score:2)
are there really this many climate change deniers that are also regular slashdot readers? (regular enough to post within say 5 hours of the story breaking). Or is it like the troll bots of various stripes that are omnipresent.
I just dont get why people wouldn't acknowledge climate change. I find it more plausible actually that most of these posts ARE bots. I just don't believe people are that dumb.
"fast enough" (Score:2)
Foreword: Whatever its cause, I think climate change is a serious problem, and humankind is the only species on the planet that is capable of solving it (even if that involves putting nature to work on the problem, i.e. planting trees or bioengineering or whatever).
Ignoring the reduction in land area caused by rising sea levels, isn't it supposed to take a few decades for the actual climate to be a major problem, and several more to reach biblical proportions? As in major problems by around 2050 and Brazil
Including ourselves (Score:2)
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i notice a denial narrative, that's true
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: I notice hypocrisy (Score:1)
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I wish Lenovo made Think phones. Like a Thinkpad, comes with a complete service manual with part numbers for easy ordering. Everything is serviceable.
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They offer recycling programs
I don't disagree with anything you said because it's all factual, but I did want to add that recycling is crap. It's literally, just barely better than throwing something away. That is why you hear it as "reduce, reuse, recycle". Reduce is the number one and most powerful way to make an impact on the environment. Someone can easily reduce by getting every last single drop out of their device. Keeping your phone for five to seven years is an incredibly good way to reduce. Being able to repair the batte
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They probably did not. They probably sifter through 10.000 and that is what they quoted. Or perhaps 10.000 is all of them, but then you would complain that there are 10.002 and not be happy about that either.
They probably did, but you completely misunderstood the point: the point is the sample size was vastly misrepresented.
Do you actually read scientific papers, or are you just BSing?
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He said the same thing he said in the report. Russia worked hard to elect Trump, Trump welcomed the effort, and someone with authority (which Mueller lacked) could probably prove between five and ten counts of Obstruction of Justice. The Justice Department went out of its way to tell Mueller he couldn't say anything that wasn't in the report. If your expectations were higher than that, it's your fault, not his.
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I don't necessarily disagree (Score:1, Insightful)
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I don't disagree either with your point that humans pose other threats to animals besides climate change due to the production of greenhouse gasses. However, I would like to address your last point:
Also,animal activists rallying to ban things like cock fight worldwide,forgetting that without such activities it wouldn't be viable to keep those species around.
Banning cockfighting does not mean you condemn roosters to extinction. Along with hens, their viability in the egg and poultry industries are already well-established.
Besides, temperament is only one of several characteristics that can be selected with controlled breeding. You can breed gentle roosters just as yo
Re: I don't necessarily disagree (Score:1)
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I'm really serious when I say that many cock/bull breeds have no real value other than what than fighting...
On the contrary, cock and bull plays an important role in environmental alarmist rhetoric. It could not exist without them.
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No, banning cockfighting doesn't condemn chickens to extinction. But Veganism does. If we stop eating chickens and eggs, that species is going to be extinct in no time - farmers won't keep feeding them if they can't be sold....
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I don't think anyone except a minor fringe is pushing everyone to become vegan. Less meat yes.
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Another leftist shows his hatred for human life.
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Also,animal activists rallying to ban things like cock fight worldwide,forgetting that without such activities it wouldn't be viable to keep those species around.
You do know that cock is another name for rooster, which are kept around mainly to make more chickens?
Re: I don't necessarily disagree (Score:1)
Re: Morons in agreement with science is not requir (Score:1)
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Re:Another day, another doomsday article (Score:5, Insightful)
If multiple sources starting coming to you and saying, "There's growing evidence your house might collapse into a sinkhole and take you with it". Well, I hope that'd start to get your attention and make you start examining for yourself. You'd definitely want to know if it was realistic to believe, given you might be about to take a loss or make some serious changes to rectify it. But in that case, do you think it'd be wise to say something like "Ah, someone told my buddy Jeff something like that once, and it never happened, so whatever."?
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Well here's the bad news.... You have to either decide they exist because a scientific body of evidence is emerging.. Or because of some other collection of neutral to nefarious motives whether that be anything from ignorance to negligence. If multiple sources starting coming to you and saying, "There's growing evidence your house might collapse into a sinkhole and take you with it". Well, I hope that'd start to get your attention and make you start examining for yourself. You'd definitely want to know if it was realistic to believe, given you might be about to take a loss or make some serious changes to rectify it. But in that case, do you think it'd be wise to say something like "Ah, someone told my buddy Jeff something like that once, and it never happened, so whatever."?
If roosters are threatened by extinction by anything it's artificial insemination and genetic engineering taking over the poultry industry. Once you have that you don't really need roosters, all you need is frozen sperm and maybe a few of dozen roosters at a couple of research facilities just in in case. Another point about roosters in the poultry industry is that they kill them off by the hundreds of thousands by dumping the chicks alive into meat grinding machines because only the females are of any value
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...so behold the face of the poetry industry that it does not want you to see
Iambic pentameter may be coming to yourtown sooner than you think! On that morning when you wake up to the deafening rumble of interstate slammers holding class C poetic licenses, enabling them to do readings across state lines, it's already too late.
Re: Another day, another doomsday article (Score:2)
Another gem from the dept of exorbitant analogies
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Your sense of urgency is being placed on the wrong people, which is causing stress. You seem under the absurd notion that a typical citizen can do anything about any of this other than not procreate.
If multiple sources starting coming to you and saying, "There's growing evidence your house might collapse into a sinkhole and take you with it".
Telling that to the 5 year old living in the house does NOTHING. Tell it to the owner. Ownership has largely been taken away from the general public... and if you think you do own something, you won't for long. Someone will come along and take it away from you. If you think the laws protect you, think again. You
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If you're seeing a narrative then there's something very wrong with you. Maybe go outside, look at reality and see this "narrative" is just a statement of what we as a species are doing.
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Of course, this would happen whether (a) the media is part of a conspiracy to sow climate alarm, (b) there is something actually happening or (c) both.
For this reason, every alarming article can feed your Bayesian belief system either way. If you are a dyed-in-the-wool denialist, it's proof of the conspiracy. If you've been following the story in science oriented outlets like Science News, Scientific American and Nature, it's more proof something is happening.
Either way, the wise get wiser, the fools get mo
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basically that, yes. This short little cartoon sum it up soooo well:
http://humoncomics.com/art/mot... [humoncomics.com]
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Re:Alarmism doens't help, dammit (Score:5, Informative)
I think you misunderstood this. It's not some PR stunt for some political party agenda. It's a scientific publication in a well established scientific journal. The goal of the authors is not to convince you. Rather, their goal is to accurately report some observations accompanied by a rigorous statistical analysis.
Read the paper, then you decide if you find it alarmist or not. But remember that the information contained in a scientific paper does not care about your feelings with respect to the facts that are contained therein, because it's not going to change depending on how you like it or not.
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My guess is you would need the population size if you wanted to estimate the time of the demise. They don't do that here. My guess is that comparing actual lag to critical lag is an established method for determining species viability.
What you or I may guess probably matters little. Do you have any references that show that comparing actual lag to critical lag is insufficient?
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quantitativegenetic analysis (Score:2)
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Re:quantitative genetic analysis (Score:2)
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Good one. So to complete the picture:
Paper: "application of a theoretical model", "indicates", "may already be"
Article discussing paper: "aren't doing so fast enough", "doom", "climate gone mad"
As I've said many times before, the warming alarmists forfeit any chance of being taken seriously by their seemingly pathological need to grossly overstate everything.
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"if the actual lag is greater than the critical lag, then the population growth rate is lower than 1, meaning substantial extinction risk... showed that for the populations of 9 out of 13 study species, the actual lag exceeds the critical lag when large values of w2 are considered (Fig. 6g). Moreover, the probability that none of the study species is at risk (lambda
"Some species seem to be adapting, yes, but they aren’t doing so fast enough. That spells, in a word, doom." - That's normative. As one
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Personally I think that species extinction is alarming. Your mileage may vary.
You're missing the point. The paper is about a speculative mathematical model, not any actual extinction or measured trends. Your own quote includes the tipoff words "if," "when [looking at a particular part of the curve using baseless worst-case assumptions]," and "probability." You also cropped out this gem:
The estimation of both the actual and critical lags requires several parameter estimates, which we could not retrieve from the publications behind our data . . . [so we made some up].
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You're right, the first half of the quote says if the actual lag is greater than the critical lag.
You may have missed the second half which says: for the populations of 9 out of 13 study species, the actual lag does exceed the critical lag.
You undoubtedly missed the final part: Moreover, the probability that none of the study species is at risk is virtually zero. That's not your fault. Slashdot ate the end of my paragraph.
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You may have missed the second half which says: for the populations of 9 out of 13 study species, the actual lag does exceed the critical lag.
You crop-quoted again -- "the actual lag exceeds the critical lag when large values of w2 are considered " -- i.e., when arbitrarily focusing on one particular corner of the graphs they made based on a value "for which we did not have study-specific estimates" and thus made up.
The first time I gave you the benefit of the doubt. The second time you're just showing yourself to be disingenuous.
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This is true, of course. To the extent that we're accelerating that process, it may or may not be a bad thing, depending largely on whether something else takes the place of those failed species in the food chain and does a better job.
For example, I'm concerned about the mass decline in pollenating insects, particularly in farming areas, because that is happening across species boundaries. By contrast, I'm far less concerned with a single random species of snake being wiped out due to habitat loss, becau
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Stick to the science? When a story starts with "may just be too intense for many animals to survive", the obvious response is going to be, "that means it may not be!"
Couching things in terms of may is the language that science uses so this seems like a no-win situation.