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China Medicine Science

China Is Harvesting Organs From Detainees, Tribunal Concludes (theguardian.com) 414

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: An independent tribunal sitting in London has concluded that the killing of detainees in China for organ transplants is continuing, and victims include imprisoned followers of the Falun Gong movement. The China Tribunal, chaired by Sir Geoffrey Nice QC, who was a prosecutor at the international criminal tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, said in a unanimous determination at the end of its hearings it was "certain that Falun Gong as a source -- probably the principal source -- of organs for forced organ harvesting."

Among those killed, it has been alleged, are members of religious minorities such as Falun Gong. Persecution of the group began in 1999 after it had attracted tens of millions of followers and came to be seen as a threat to the communist party. There is less evidence about the treatment of Tibetans, Uighur Muslims and some Christian sects. China announced in 2014 that it would stop removing organs for transplantation from executed prisoners and has dismissed the claims as politically-motivated and untrue.
"The conclusion shows that very many people have died indescribably hideous deaths for no reason, that more may suffer in similar ways and that all of us live on a planet where extreme wickedness may be found in the power of those, for the time being, running a country with one of the oldest civilizations known to modern man," said Sir Geoffrey Nice QC. He added: "There is no evidence of the practice having been stopped and the tribunal is satisfied that it is continuing."
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China Is Harvesting Organs From Detainees, Tribunal Concludes

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  • by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Monday June 17, 2019 @10:44PM (#58779870)

    comeing soon to hong kong and Taiwan!

    • Well, they are running out of Chinese-compatible organs after all.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      We should do everything we can to keep supporting Hong Kong and Taiwan. They are still free enough to have some decent news media and reporting, so China can't get away with stuff like this there. That's why China wants this new extradition law, so they can extradite people and abuse them out of sight.

      • Do everything to do to support them? Puhlease. I don't give enough shit about either Taiwan or Hong Kong for my country to spend trillions of dollars on "do-good" wars again. There is plenty of dictatorships and human rights abuses happening in the world. But it is not America's duty to "right" all of them. In fact, there is now ample evidence that American dogoodism doesn't work. It hurts the target countries, and is expensive as fuck. Just look at all the countries where USA tried to do "good":

        Vietnam
        Afgh

    • Taiwan I'd doubt, unless China goes in like Russia did in Crimea. But Hong Kong and Macau were already lost: once Britain and Portugal made their deals w/ China, how long was it gonna be before Beijing turned around and decided to totally implement its own laws there? I mean, those 2 cities are as much a part of China as Seattle is a part of US: on what basis in international law can anybody demand of China that they treat Hong Kong or Macau differently from, say, Guangzhou or Shanghai?

  • >> Zeng, who fled China in 2001, did not see any direct evidence of forced organ removal

    So the only "witness" they have has not seen any evidence. And this "tribunal" still "concluded" something somehow.

  • Not that independent (Score:4, Informative)

    by Yi Ding ( 635572 ) <[yi] [at] [studentindebt.com]> on Monday June 17, 2019 @11:02PM (#58779940)
    This "independent tribunal" was organized by a number of Falun Gong members. That doesn't mean that they are wrong in their conclusions, but it's not actually as independent as they make it out to be.
    • by shufflingb ( 5046321 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @06:37AM (#58780984)

      It's axiomatic that anyone who organises anything will always has an agenda: why would anyone do anything if they did not care? Take a brief look at the Holocaust, most of the reports of Nazi atrocities against the Jews and other persecuted groups were from the survivors and not from the Nazis side. Why would anyone expect the situation in China with the Falun Gong, Uigurs etc to be any different?

      So how does anyone with no direct first hand experience come to a reasonable understanding as to what is going on? The key is in the credibility of the entity doing the weighing and presentation of the report. The gold standard would be a UN report. However, with China being a permanent member of the Security Council that is never going to happen. This report though, was chaired by Professor Sir Geoffrey Nice QC. Professor, Sir and Queen's Counsel. To someone from outside the British system those titles may sound pompous and/or archaic. However, they do actually convey information that says in essence this guy should be taken very seriously on this subject (Google them and him). As you would announcements on Physics from the late Professor Sir Stephen Hawking CH CBE FRS FRSA. Ask yourself is he the type of person who is going to have the wool pulled over his eyes? In short is Professor Sir Geoffrey Nice QC likely to risk his career and reputation backing something that is utter garbage?

      Ultimately, China is by Western standards a vast controlled and secretive society that doesn't even officially publish the number of death penalties it carries out each year. In the West our bias is to tend to think of it being like a machine where everything moves like a cog and nobody steps out of line. In some ways it is, however, all that effort monitoring what people say on social media, face scanning etc comes at the cost of other forms of illegality and gangsterism being overlooked elsewhere. The Chinese authorities, even with AI, like anyone else can only have so many priorities. There have been consistent stories of organ harvesting in China for many years, and now this weighty and credible report. Fwiw On the balance of the evidence I personally do not believe this is official national policy, but I think I would be stupid to pretend it is not happening.

  • The name implies some judicial aspects, but this whole tribunal is pretty much some random committee formed by International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China (ETAC) to publicize their accusations against China. They certainly may be right in their accusations but this "tribunal" outcome was fixed from the very moment it was created and so its irrelevant.

  • by reporter ( 666905 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @12:11AM (#58780116) Homepage

    Chinese morality has changed little since 1995.

    A report [cnn.com] by CNN in 2001 states, "[Doctor Wang Guoqi] said his conscience was tortured after an incident in October 1995 when he was ordered [by the Chinese government] to remove skin from a prisoner still alive.

    The prisoner -- sentenced to death for robbery and murder -- was administered an anti-blood clotting agent and then shot.

    Wang said the prisoner did not die immediately and was taken into the back of an ambulance where urologists removed his kidneys.

    Wang and other surgeons then harvested the prisoner's skin before putting the body -- still not dead -- in a plastic bag then into a truck."

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @12:59AM (#58780234)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • The CCP has killed more Chinese people than any other enemy they've ever faced. Mao murdered 77 million, and that regime is still in charge. They backed way off on the whole command economy debacle, but personal freedom. and human life, mean nothing to communists.

      The last word was probably chosen poorly. It should have been "Chinese". Even before the Chinese were Communist, they didn't seem to care all that much about individual lives....

    • Personal freedom and human life means nothing to any government that can get away with it.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • As with all things in life, moderation is the key. Total absence of governmental power is anarchy. Total control by government over its subjects is a police state. I doubt either of them is in the interest of the majority of people. The goal is to have just enough government to ensure that people can live in just enough safety to prosper without limiting them in ways that are detrimental to their general well being.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      human life, mean nothing to communists

      To the contrary, they value the well-being of their citizens. The quality of life for the majority of Chinese people has improved dramatically over the last 40 years, and most Chinese people think the government is doing a good job and is looking out for them.

      Which is great for the CCP because it means they aren't bothered about not having democracy or rights. Why riot when things are getting better?

      Also not engaging in genocide is now necessary to maintain that prosperity, since other countries will sancti

      • To the contrary, they value the well-being of their citizens.

        lol no. They value the well-being of their country, and their individual citizens are only valued so long as they support the goals of the country. That's what the social credit score is all about, identifying those people which China will treat as nonpersons.

        It is overwhelmingly NOT NEWS that China is harvesting organs from prisoners. We have known this for years [washingtonpost.com].

        The simple fact is that the world effectively condones this behavior from China, by continuing to buy goods from them. It's hardly a surprise fro

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          I should clarify that I mean they care in the same sense that a farmer cares about his cattle, so that he can harvest their meat later.

    • > but personal freedom. and human life, mean nothing to communists.

      "From each according to his means to each according to his needs." - Marx

      "Some pigs are more equal" - basically Marx

  • by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @01:26AM (#58780306) Journal
    Why the ever-loving fuck is this allowed!?
  • by magusxxx ( 751600 ) <magusxxx_2000 AT yahoo DOT com> on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @01:57AM (#58780354)

    "But I'm still using it."

  • Chinese used to strap naked people, who were cultural opponents, to huge earthenware urns, and light a fire inside (plenty shown in the so-called 'Forbidden City'). This new trend is so much more productive.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @08:54AM (#58781522)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • I take issue with calling China Communist. Communism requires a country to be industrialized first, otherwise it doesn't have the labor organization to successfully make the shift from the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" to actual Communism. This is exactly what happened in China. It devolved into a permanent fascist dictatorship that happens to use Karl Marx's books for cover.

      We can argue whether it's even possible for an industrialized country to successfully complete the transition, but there's no
  • by fish_in_the_c ( 577259 ) on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @09:50AM (#58781838)

    China's ruling party are avowed atheists. Just because it 'happens' to be frowned upon by other countries does not make it illegal in China. Why would you make anything illegal that isn't immoral. Why would you assume atheists who define morality based on social convention and utilitarianism would think they are doing something they should not do by making the best use of the bodies of there political rivals while efficiently eliminating 'divisive' social elements at the same time?
    After all, what higher value is there then the collective commune? What higher loyalty should be allowed then loyalty to the party? If there is no God, the answer is obvious. That is why communism has _always_ opposed any significant or expressed belief in any entity more powerful then the 'scientifically' ruled state and has little sympathy for those who suffer from the 'delusion' that God or morals not dictated by the party exist in any form.

    In short if there is no God they are not 'evil' and in fact are only doing something 'wrong' in the eyes of others, who have no authority and little business interfering in China's internal affairs.

    Personally I whole heatedly disagree, but it should come as no shock to anyone that a specific group of people act in a way that is logically consistent with thier stated worldview.

  • I saw these guys packaged with a least a few organs in Body Worlds a decade ago. The only thing missing in the present day is the plasticine process, which apparently diminished the resale value to back-alley transplanters.

Every nonzero finite dimensional inner product space has an orthonormal basis. It makes sense, when you don't think about it.

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