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Cooking Sunday Roast Causes Indoor Pollution 'Worse Than Delhi' (theguardian.com) 171

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
pgmrdlm writes: Cooking a Sunday roast can drive indoor air pollution far above the levels found in the most polluted cities on Earth, scientists have said. Researchers found that roasting meat and vegetables, and using a gas hob, released a surge of fine particles that could make household air dirtier than that in Delhi. Fine soot and tiny organic particles from gas flames, vegetables, oils and fat combined to send harmful PM2.5 particulates in the house to levels 13 times higher than those measured in the air in central London. Peak indoor pollution lasted for about an hour.

"We were all surprised at the overall levels of particulate matter in the house," said Marina Vance, who led the research at the University of Colorado in Boulder. She advised people to open windows and use extractor hoods if possible to ventilate the home while cooking. PM2.5s are particles that are smaller than 2.5 micrometres across. They are small enough to be inhaled deep into the lungs where they exacerbate respiratory disorders and cardiovascular disease. Smaller particles can spread from the lungs into the bloodstream where they build up in the liver, heart and even the brain, where they may contribute to depression and other mental health issues.
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Cooking Sunday Roast Causes Indoor Pollution 'Worse Than Delhi' More

Cooking Sunday Roast Causes Indoor Pollution 'Worse Than Delhi'

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  • Is calling BS on this! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Zorro ( 15797 ) on Friday February 22, 2019 @11:07AM (#58164036)

    Roasting meat and vegetables are in NO WAY similar to Asian Smog!

    • Re:Is calling BS on this! (Score:5, Informative)

      by ranton ( 36917 ) on Friday February 22, 2019 @11:21AM (#58164118)

      Considering one of their recommendations was to use an oven hood (no duh!), I wonder if they did everything possible to make the air quality plummet. If I roasted a turkey, let some fat drop onto the bottom of the oven, kept all the windows closed, and didn't use the oven hood, the air in home would be very unpleasant.

      • Re:Is calling BS on this! (Score:5, Informative)

        by vux984 ( 928602 ) on Friday February 22, 2019 @12:09PM (#58164412)

        It's actually pretty well documented that the air quality from cooking can get to surprisingly bad levels quickly.

        The range hoods in a lot of kitches are often only minimally up to code, too far from the cooking surface, and dirty, attached to ductwork that is too long with too many corners to deliver anything close to the rated air movement. And many homeowners don't think to even turn them on unless the cooking is active smoking.

        An decent spec range hood, installed correctly, that is clean and not hobbled by inadequate ductwork is all you need. But it is shocking how rare this is.

        As it happens, my current place, had been upgraded to a nice gas stove with no real thought to the range hood. The range hood is a cheap builders 280 CFM unit with around 25 feet of 5" diameter horizontal pipe with at least 3 90 degree turns. It also leaks air where it connects to the duct; so a good fraction of the air it sucks in is just blowing back into the kitchen

        The range hood should be at least 400CFM for the gas stove that's installed. But due to the duct work, will need to be even higher. And it should be turned on to at least low even when just boiling water for tea.

        If we roasted a turkey and let some fat drop; and have current fan on max, all the windows and doors open, the bathroom fans going, and all the ceiling fans going... we'd still set off the smoke detector.

        We're in the process of getting it replaced.

        Here's a couple article from 2013... this is not "new".

        http://articles.latimes.com/20... [latimes.com]
        https://www.npr.org/sections/t... [npr.org]

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Attached to ductwork .?!?.. That happens in Europe. All the range hoods I have seen in the US are attached to ... Nothing.. It is just a fan that takes the Air from below the microware and releases it above the microwave. No ducks no nothing.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by vux984 ( 928602 )

            Good point. A lot of range hoods are recirculating; and many models can be configured to use either ductwork or to recirculate.

            If they recirculate they go through charcoal filters that should be replaced regularly. As you can imagine, many people with recirculating systems never replace the filters.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by jbengt ( 874751 )
              Cooking exhaust hoods almost never have charcoal filters (that would be a fire hazard, among other reasons). They have metal filters that catch some of the larger grease particles. But your point is well taken that they're rarely cleaned.

        • The range hood should be at least 400CFM for the gas stove that's installed. But due to the duct work, will need to be even higher. And it should be turned on to at least low even when just boiling water for tea.

          I agree with the rest of your post (the exhaust fan on my stove sucks). But what's your rationale for this? Boiled water is just water vapor. And natural gas (methane) only combusts into CO2 and H2O (water vapor) unless you introduce other reactants or starve it of oxygen. They've been trying f

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by vux984 ( 928602 )

            "And natural gas (methane) only combusts into CO2 and H2O (water vapor) unless you introduce other reactants or starve it of oxygen."

            Pretty much exactly right. :)

            CO and NO2 are also produced as well as fine particles primarily from the burners volatizing dust. Surprisingly the levels can easily hit levels that would be illegal.

            Ideally you should turn the fan on before you light the stove (or turn it on with electrics); its worst at the start as any dust, food residue, soap residue from cleaning etc on the b

        • When I remodeled my kitchen, I dropped it the fan that came with the hood, and bought about external roof mounted fan instead. That way I could get a massively more powerful fan, and you barely hear it from the kitchen, and I get the nice classy look of a stainless steel hood.

          Had to do a little bit of wiring myself and get an adaptor kit so the hood buttons could control the external fan, but it was all pretty easy.

        • What is the "duct work" you are talking about? I just moved into a brand new Mark-Taylor luxury apartment last year. It was built in 2018 and the range hood only recirculates the air. It literally sucks it in from under the microwave oven, and blows it out the front towards the ceiling. The only filter is a chrome mesh, no charcoal or anything. No window nearby either. I pulled the range hood/microwave from the wall to see if they just forgot to rotate the fan module to direct the air to a duct in the wall.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by jbengt ( 874751 )
            It might be different in different places, but residential kitchens can have ventilation requirements met by simply having operable windows (in some cases, the windows in the next room are good enough for code), and there is no requirement for providing a range hood or exhausting it to outdoors.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by vux984 ( 928602 )

            That 'chrome mesh filter' probably looks like just the grease filter for a ducted system, but is probably actually a charcoal filter that should be replaced regularly.

            Most are good for 3-6 months depending on what and how much you cook.

            e.g. you probably have (need) something like this for your particular brand/model of course:

            https://www.amazon.com/Broan-B... [amazon.com]

      • Considering one of their recommendations was to use an oven hood

        A better recommendation would be to actually use an oven and not a hob. I don't even know how you can roast something like a chicken properly on the hob and I'd not be surprised if you end up burning some part of it releasing lots of pollution since a hob only heats the bottom.

        • In my experience most ovens just vent into the room anyway, and the fumes are meant to be extracted via... the range hood. On the other hand, the last place I lived in had such good ventilation from the hood that I generally didn't even have to turn it on, and mere temperature differential would cause a draw, which hasn't been the case in most places in which I've lived.

      • Considering one of their recommendations was to use an oven hood (no duh!), I wonder if they did everything possible to make the air quality plummet.

        You don't need to do things to make quality plummet. You just need to omit things to make it better. It's amazing the number of people who refuse to use the rangehood in winter because "It's cold outside and I don't want to suck in cold air!" It's equally amazing the number of people who manage to simply set of fire alarms, or who stand over their BBQ inhale deeply through their nose and go "aaaahhhh isn't that a great smell!" while they wipe the soot off their glasses.

    • Roasting meat and vegetables are in NO WAY similar to Asian Smog!

      It is certainly a different makeup of particulates, which is important. What is missing from this article, as with most FUD articles, is a description of impact on health from a risk perspective. The level of exposure, frequency, toxicity, and the bodies' natural defenses all play a role.

      Just as we see with radiation FUD mongers, clear statement of actual real world risk are missing.

      • I wonder if commercial kitchens have any air quality standards. Those people are in there all day.

        • I wonder if commercial kitchens have any air quality standards. Those people are in there all day.

          I don't know, but I do know restaurant HVAC codes require significant ventilation and exhaust. That's probably what they depend on for air quality.

        • Re:Is calling BS on this! (Score:4, Informative)

          by judoguy ( 534886 ) on Friday February 22, 2019 @12:58PM (#58164734) Homepage

          I wonder if commercial kitchens have any air quality standards. Those people are in there all day.

          Indeed they do. Not just hoods but active replacement air expressly rated for the hoods.

          A friend of mine recently opened a restaurant and the inspector determined that the HVAC contractor had insufficiently sized the replacement air system for the range hoods. He wouldn't allow the restaurant to open until that was fixed.

    • Roasting meat and vegetables are in NO WAY similar to Asian Smog!

      Yeah, I doubt people are getting off the plane in Delhi and immediately saying, "Mmm, what smells so good?"

      I also have a hard time believing all particulate "pollution" is created equal.

    • I know people who often set off the smoke alarm from their cooking escapades - today, roasts, frying. Even just doing a stir fry I see tons of spatters of oil everywhere. I think the results of the study seem more "common sense" than "BS"

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Roasting meat and vegetables are in NO WAY similar to Asian Smog!

      Or smog from anywhere from that matter. Let's think what's on 3rd-world smog: gas exhaust, kitchen exhaust, coal/wood smoke, garbage burn-out smoke ... which inevitably involves household chemicals and human shit (yeah, there's human shit particles in 3rd world smog.)

      I sure don't want to breath particles off roasted meat and veggies, certainly not oil when it gets accidentally burned (another reason I'm not a fan of cooking some things indoors.)

      But the analogy in the title is just f* bonkers.

    • Re:Is calling BS on this! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Fly Swatter ( 30498 ) on Friday February 22, 2019 @12:29PM (#58164530) Homepage
      They are cooking with gas. I bet electric ovens/cooktops don't put out exhaust from burning fossil fuels.... Notice they didn't even bother to compare to an electric setup - an article like this absolutely needs to compare gas vs. electric otherwise WTF IS THE POINT?.

    • Roasting meat and vegetables are in NO WAY similar to Asian Smog!

      In what way? Colour? Smell? Desirability? One way they are similar is PM2.5. If you think that PM2.5 is all there is to Asian smog then the problem is your ignorance not the study.

      • So you are saying that the only attribute that matters is the size of the particle, but not the composition of the particle?

        Breathing diesel exhaust is just as healthy / unhealthy as breathing fumes from a ham? Are you fucking cracked?

        • Actually I said the exact opposite. You see diesel exhaust has a myraid of other parts in its composition that cause health problems too. Yet PM2.5 concentrations are known to bioaccumulate and cause specific health problems regardless of where they come from and what their composition is.

          Read a fucking book. Educate yourself. Learn about logical fallacies (you committed one in your post, can you guess which?) Then come back and post with the big boys.

  • Rolleyes... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kokuyo ( 549451 ) on Friday February 22, 2019 @11:07AM (#58164038) Journal

    For one, that's what ventilation is for. And I mean both the active one you have above the stove if you have half a brain and the opened windows after cooking is done.

    In Delhi they breathe that 24/7. Doubt that is the same as breathing it for a few hours.

    • It's hard and stupid to open the windows in the middle of winter, though.

      But yeah... if you can afford to have a "sunday roast", your kitchen has an range hood.

      • We occasionally have a Sunday roast and we don't have a range hood.

        Though I am eager to put in a range hood because over-the-stove microwaves are disgusting. Range hoods are not very expensive if you install it yourself.

        I'm not trying to be argumentative. Just pointing out that it is an inaccurate correlation to draw between roasts, hoods, and affluence.

        • Where do you live and what's the age of that house/apartment to not have a range hood?

          • Midwest, 12 year old suburban house. All they installed was giant over-the-range microwave with a recirculating fan in it. Just spits the grease fumes back out over your head.

            It's surprisingly common in places built in the 90s and early 2000s. I don't understand it either.

            • Yep, my condo has the same annoying thing. It doesn't help that those 90s microwaves are completely indestructable, probably working until judgement day.

        • Though I am eager to put in a range hood because over-the-stove microwaves are disgusting.

          Most over the range microwaves have a vent to connect to an exhaust chimney, you can choose that or recirc when you install.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Kokuyo ( 549451 )

        What, do you breathe stale air all winter long? Letting air circulate for a few minutes doesn't kill you unless you live in Alaska. There is enough thermal mass in a house for that to be a non-issue.

    • For one, that's what ventilation is for..

      Its also what nose hairs are for.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hipp5 ( 1635263 )

      A LOT of homes don't have proper ventilation. They either have a recirculating hood (useless, especially if you never change the filter), or they have a vented hood that's too far from the cook surface and poorly sized for the room.

    • In Delhi they breathe that 24/7. Doubt that is the same as breathing it for a few hours.

      The old "one cigarette isn't dangerous" fallacy?

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by tsqr ( 808554 )

        In Delhi they breathe that 24/7. Doubt that is the same as breathing it for a few hours.

        The old "one cigarette isn't dangerous" fallacy?

        Of course, one cigarette is dangerous. It's just not as dangerous as two packs a day, just as cooking a roast is not as dangerous as breathing the air in Delhi 24x7.

  • It smells so good!

    I guess we should all be using gas masks while cooking from now on....

  • Conclusion? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Buy even -more- toxic pre-packaged, microwaveable food to protect yourself from the toxins of cooking at home!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dysmal ( 3361085 )

      Better yet, pay for someone to deliver the same food that someone else made for you! That saves you from all of those pesky pollutants (never mind the delivery people and the cooks).

  • You do know that we have tiny hairs in our lungs that clean out particulates? Sure you can overwhelm them but I doubt a Sunday roast will do it.

    • You do know that we have tiny hairs in our lungs that clean out particulates?

      You do know that PM2.5 soot is too small for those "tiny hairs" (cilia) to remove from your lungs, right? That does leave the question of what the PM2.5 stuff is, though. Soot is a problem because it's persistent. Organics that will break down in the lung might or might not be a problem, depending on what they are.

  • Ah yes, dont cook at home.. Good advice. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    The Guardian upholds their reputation as an utterly fucking useless online tabloid.

  • Who gives a shit. More hypochondriac bullshit from the letâ(TM)s worry about every irrelevant thing possible âoeWe are all going to die!â freaks.
  • Maybe everyone who works at a restaurant can sue their employer.

  • A caveman could do it! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sdinfoserv ( 1793266 ) on Friday February 22, 2019 @11:26AM (#58164146)
    It's not like we're from caves with constant open fires with meat roasting since the dawn of man or any... oh, wait... oops.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Until not very long ago cooking was considered to be too dirt to do inside a house. It was done outdoors or in a shed in the back yard.

    • I have serious doubts about this study too but to be fair though cavemen from the palaeolithic had a life expectancy of 33 years [wikipedia.org] so while I doubt this was due to air pollution, other things killed them off so rapidly that if there were any effect from air pollution we would not notice.

      • I have serious doubts about this study too

        Why? The number of idiots especially in a cold UK winter who won't even turn on their range hood because they don't want cold air in the house, combined with the number of people whose Sunday roast actually sets off their fire alarm should easily validate the study.

        I don't doubt it for a second. The key difference is we're able to do something about it, and we're not breathing it in for hours in the day.

  • Quit making idiotic statements for coverage! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by shess ( 31691 ) on Friday February 22, 2019 @11:26AM (#58164148) Homepage

    I'm sure it is plausible that at the PEAK there are more particles matching a SPECIFIC metric than Delhi's AVERAGE, but who the hell cares? Unless you're doing things very wrong, your roasted dinner is going to exceed these levels for maybe a few hours, whereas in a major city on a bad day it will be bad for many dozens of hours, or even for days or weeks, and will be bad on a wide variety of measures.

    We've built this system of demand for "information", and the infrastructure works to fill that demand, no matter how trivial the information is, resulting in a confusing continuum from important stuff to trivial stuff to downright stupid stuff. Honestly, what we need is to add computer algorithms which STOP exposing us to stupid useless stories, to reduce the overall demand.

    • but who the hell cares?

      I'm sure there's a link between cancer and cigarette smoking, but who the hell cares. Now if you'll excuse me I have yet another appointment for chemo.

      In other news why are cancer rates so high? Must be that damn fluoride in the water!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by shess ( 31691 )

        but who the hell cares?

        I'm sure there's a link between cancer and cigarette smoking, but who the hell cares. Now if you'll excuse me I have yet another appointment for chemo.

        In other news why are cancer rates so high? Must be that damn fluoride in the water!

        There is a strong correlation between _life_ and cancer. But in the case of the roast, more people are going to die of cancers related to eating the roast than to cancers related to breathing fumes from the roast.

  • WTF is a gas hob? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Seriously... I'm racking my brain trying to figure out if I've ever heard the word "hob" and imagine what a gas variant might be.

  • How about cooking a Sunday roast in Delhi ?

  • Some things are worth dying for (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Sunday Roast for an hour once every couple weeks - how much do you think that will take down your life expectancy? Being so stressed that you worry about something as petty as breathing air from a Sunday Roast for an hour once every couple weeks - that will put you in an early grave.

  • if you've got a nice kitchen then your vents and fans work.

    But yeah, I live in a cheap apartment and cook my own meals and when I do the whole place stinks. If the weather's OK I'll open windows and doors but half the time I don't want to let the heat out or in (depending on the time of year).

  • I googled "gas hob", because I had no idea what that meant. Apparently it's just a gas stove.

    But I came across this weird climate alarmist idea to ban gas stoves because it was "bad for the environment". These environmental wacko's better be careful. Real cooks love gas, and despise electric. They can take my gas stove from my cold, dead hands!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/21/end-gas-hob-government-advisers-say-new-homes-should-gas-grid/

    • Real cooks love gas, and despise electric.

      Unless it is electric induction tops, which are even better than gas!

  • I always wondered why I always pass out for 2 hours on the couch after that Sunday roast. Must be all of the pollution in the air. ;)

  • "Smoke detector? I thought it was an oven timer!"

  • using a gas hob

    I think you've got far greater problems than some lousy PM2.5 particles.

  • I had a housemate burn pinto beans with habaneros in them... it's a pretty effective form of tear gas!

  • ...this sort of clickbaity "look at how Science(tm) proves something terrible that everyone doesn't think is terrible but is! Sky is falling, news at 11!" is exactly why (sane) people no longer give a shit about these sorts of articles.

    I stopped listening largely around the what, 4th? 5th reversal on whether eggs were good or bad for you in my lifetime, maybe around 1990.

  • Where I live people mainly have electric ovens. Is this different for electric?
    • Glad I am not the only one that found the article absolutely useless since they offer nothing about electric. How about instead of suggestions like opening windows or running fans they actually test whether cooking with electric would make a significant difference.

  • No comfy smells for you! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ) on Friday February 22, 2019 @12:59PM (#58164742) Journal
    Oh, I see. So the comforting smells of food cooking is now a no-no, is that it? No wonder so many people are depressed: "Everything that makes you feel comfy and safe is BAD FOR YOU AND WILL KILL YOU!". What's next? The smell of fresh bread baking gives you heart disease? How fucking depressing.

  • Why not just substitute the Guardian for Slashdot since on-topic "news for nerds" is apparently too much work to find and post?

  • .... stay out of the kitchen.

    Although this article seems to be more about making an impact than providing level-headed information.

  • In California, Prop 65 warns you against all kinds of evils, including toast and prune juice (both known to the State of California to cause cancer)... I kid you not.

  • What? (Score:2)

    by kenh ( 9056 )

    How do you "roast" on a "gas job"?

    I roast meat IN an oven, not ON a gas cooktop (hob).

  • On the rare occasion I roast something indoors, I have at least my kitchen window open and usually my sliding door. At least I learned a new term, "gas hob." In other words, a gas burner.

  • so what day is best? (Score:3)

    by Paul Carver ( 4555 ) on Sunday February 24, 2019 @07:58PM (#58174292)

    Ok, so if Sunday is no good, what day is recommended? I usually roast chicken on a Saturday and freeze enough for a month or so. Does this mean I'm safe, since the article specified sunday?

    Last week I roasted chicken on a tuesday. It would be interesting to know if it's just sunday that needs to be avoided or the entire weekend.

    Or was the article written by a moron? It seems likely, but I hate to assume such things.

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