Follow Slashdot stories on Twitter

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Science

There's No Such Thing as a Safe Tan (theconversation.com) 148

H. Peter Soyer, Professor of Dermatology, and Katie Lee, Research assistant at The University of Queensland, write: There's a lot to be said for sunshine -- both good and bad. It's our main source of vitamin D, which is essential for bone and muscle health. Populations with higher levels of sun exposure also have better blood pressure and mood levels, and fewer autoimmune diseases such as multiple sclerosis. On the other hand, excess UV exposure is estimated to contribute to 95% of melanomas and 99% of non-melanoma skin cancers. These skin cancers account for a whopping 80% of all new cancers each year in Australia.

Like any medicine, the dose counts. And in Australia, particularly in the summer, our dose of UV is so high that even short incidental exposures -- like while you hang out the washing or walk from your carpark into the shops -- adds up to huge lifetime doses. Fortunately, when it comes to tanning, the advice is clear: don't. A UV dose that's high enough to induce a tan is already much higher than the dose needed for vitamin D production. A four-year-long study of 1,113 people in Nambour, Queensland, found no difference in vitamin D levels between sunscreen users and sunscreen avoiders.
Further reading: Is Sunscreen the New Margarine?
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

There's No Such Thing as a Safe Tan

Comments Filter:
  • by Anonymous Coward

    Monitor tans for the best life quality

    • Monitor tans for the best life quality

      Not anymore. In the olden days, CRTs generated some UV light. But modern LCD and OLED monitors emit none.

  • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:32PM (#57966442) Journal

    What about the spray-on tan that you-know-who uses?

    • You talkin bout Snooki?
    • What about the spray-on tan that you-know-who uses?

      Spray on "tan" isn't a tan. It's paint. Spray "tans" are tans in the same sense that soy milk is really juice. They only call it a tan because it superficially resembles one to someone who isn't looking very carefully.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        They only call it a tan because it superficially resembles one

        That's what the tell the emperor, at any rate.

      • Spray on "tan" isn't a tan. It's paint.

        Terms like "tan" have no official definition definer. The general population is who controls definitions, for good or bad. If the population calls it a "tan", it's a tan.

        I've done no official surveys on this word regarding this matter, but neither have you. However, my gut impression is that a fake tan is usually considered a sub-category of "tan".

        Companies like Websters (dictionary makers) may influence definitions, but still they are not the final arbiters. There are

        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

            I hope you meant to write "spray tan" not "fake tan" because a fake anything is by definition not whatever it is a fake thing of.

            You are right, I should have said "spray tan".

        • Terms like "tan" have no official definition definer.

          Not true. The word tan does have a medical definition [wikipedia.org]. The word tan is used for other purposes as well but in this context when doctors are talking about there being no safe amount of tanning they are talking about the skin's reaction to UV light and the color changes that result. You can give superficially similar results by literally painting (staining) the skin with chemicals but that is a VERY different thing and if you looked at the skin up close the difference is obvious. Calling spray tans a "ta

          • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

            You could call it a "rose" or a "hippo" but it wouldn't change what we are talking about.

            The speaker controls what they are intending to talk about, but whether listeners will understand or agree on a definition or point is another matter.

      • by arth1 ( 260657 )

        Spray on "tan" isn't a tan. It's paint.

        No, it's a stain. Much like what tanners use.

      • "Tan" is also a color. Like saying "spray-on beige".

    • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

      I was wondering how long until someone turns this to orange-man-bad. Answer: 3 posts.
    • What about the spray-on tan that you-know-who uses?

      No, and he's healthy as a horse...

    • Ross from Friends?
    • You know who doesn't use a spray-on, it's clear from the pattern of pale around his eyes that he's using a tanning booth with tanning bed goggles.

      Compare to Boehner, who in some photos seems to have that same shade that seems somewhat unnatural in some lighting conditions. But he doesn't have the tanning lines around the eyes because he gets it from behind outside a lot. You-know-who golfs a lot, more than his predecessors so I wonder why he doesn't have a more natural looking tan from it. Maybe he has s

  • by Anonymous Coward

    If it's good enough for the President of the most ridiculous country on Earth, it ought to be good enough for you!

  • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @12:53PM (#57966594)
    From what I can tell, about 15,600 Americans die from skin cancer each year [cancer.net]. That puts it at a little less than half your risk of dying in a car accident. So rather than turning vampire and avoiding sunlight as much as you can, just employ safe practices. Just like you buckle your seat belt when riding in a car, use sunscreen when going outdoors. Or put another way, if you're going to freak out about this and avoid going into sunlight, you should be doubly-freaked out about riding in a car.
    • But... (Score:4, Funny)

      by skam240 ( 789197 ) on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:03PM (#57966672)

      What if my car is a convertible!?

    • Just like you buckle your seat belt when riding in a car, use sunscreen when going outdoors.

      That is actually bad advice, because then you are not getting nearly so much advantage of the exposure in producing vitamin D.

      If you are just outside an hour or two, going in and out of the sun and/or mostly clothed, just don't worry about about it.

      Just use sunscreen to prevent actual burns, not just because the sun will be on you...

      • Plus, using sunscreen all the time ignores the effect the chemicals in the sunscreen can cause. Some of them are cancer causing also, so block the sun so you don't get cancer, but end up with cancer anyway because you used too much sunscreen! Catch-22 anyone?
        • by N_Piper ( 940061 )
          It's an Australian story
          For reference the U.V. Index in Brisbane today was 14.
          That's a pasty nerd to ball of blistering skin in about 5 minutes.
          Or put another way, according to the World Cancer Research Fund
          The United States has a skin cancer rate of 12.7 per 100,000 people.
          Australia has a rate of 33.6 per 100,000 people.
          It's a little different down there.
      • by N_Piper ( 940061 )
        The featured article is from Australia.
        Australian Sun advice does not conform to the rest of the world, much like most of Australia.
        The average UV index for the entire country in the second month of summer (for them January, now) goes from an index of 11 to 14 and is literally off the charts for the North America index of 0 to 11. Nevada and New Mexico average a 10 at the peak of summer. Australian sun is a totally different beast from our pansy northern hemisphere equivalent.
        Welcome to the information a
    • by N_Piper ( 940061 )
      Okay but this is working on the depreciated linar no threshold model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
      The happy fact is that DNA does repair itself and the time you spend in the sun at age 8 likely is not going to contribute to the transcription errors that will cause the cancer that kills you at age 97.
      I don't know the layout of Australian malls and carparks but if it is anything like here in the states no it really isn't going to add up. On closer inspection maybe it does add up (just for them) that be
  • by Anonymous Coward

    The incidence of historical melanoma should be considered. Highly considered. As humans, historically we spent a very large amount of time working outdoors in the sunlight. Yet when we do so today, we get cancer? Wait, then what has changed? Why would evolution deselect a protective measure like this? Is it evolution or is it something else?

    Diet? Pollutants? Stress? Alternative radiation exposure (radio transmissions, microwaves, CRTs)?

    What is the reason, not the result, what is the cause, not the symptom.

    • The T-Rex ate you long before you caught a bad case of the Cancer.

    • Once you're old enough to breed, evolution is done with you.

      Ancient people didn't typically live long enough to get cancer.

      Cue the guy to claim is was 'all infant mortality'. He is wrong.

      • by EvilSS ( 557649 )
        Also the fact of the matter is that we didn't keep mortality statistics in ancient times. We have no idea what the rates of incidence of most health conditions where.
        • We've dug up an awful lot of ancient graves by now. 'No idea' is overstating the case, by a lot.

          • 'No idea' is exactly how much clue we have about ancient skin cancer rates. Skin does not tend to be found on skeletons thousands of years old, certainly not in sufficient quantity for a statistical projection.

            • Metastases on/in bone left marks. There isn't a ton of data, but 'no idea' is bullshit.

              We also know average age at death and cancer rates vs age in modern primitive populations.

          • by EvilSS ( 557649 )
            No, it's not.
      • by arth1 ( 260657 )

        Once you're old enough to breed, evolution is done with you.

        Evolution doesn't reward individuals, it rewards genes. Evolution continues rewarding the genes you passed on while you're still a net benefit to the survival and reproductive rate of your descendants.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Really? So long as you were all enough to breed, evolution was done with you? Pop out that new born, kick the bucket and let that baby raise itself?

        If you actually look at it with a scientific eye, it looks like humans live long enough to breed, raise their offspring, and very frequently help raise their offsprings offspring. This seems to have maximized the survival of our children.

        You might consider looking in to how "survival of the fittest" actually works. I'll give you a hint, anything that helps t

      • Once you're old enough to breed, evolution is done with you.

        Untrue, children have to be raised, and after that, grandchildren. You're not an evolutionary success just because you breed; your descendants must live and breed themselves.

        Cue the guy to claim is was 'all infant mortality'. He is wrong.

        Yes, he is. But not completely. A man in ancient times could reasonably hope to live until his 60s or 70s if he survived childhood, which was terribly dangerous, which dragged life expectancy down. As the Bib

      • There are a lot of people who don't really understand evolution and try to shoehorn in a lot of ideas about evolution that don't fit. Such as "what is the evolutionary purpose of grandparents", or other silly things. They assume evolution is about a progression from lesser organisms towards higher organisms and eventually towards perfection, as if evolution is just intelligent design with more science. Also there is often the incorrect assumption that as humans we are at the endpoint of evolution; or that

  • Tanning (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Rei ( 128717 ) on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:00PM (#57966640) Homepage

    All tans are caused by damage, but not all tans are equal. There are three types of tan:

      * Immediate pigment darkening: Rapid onset. Somewhat grayish appearance. Mostly gone within an hour.
      * Persistent pigment darkening: Peaks within a couple hours. Mostly gone a day or so afterwards.
      * Delayed tanning: Peaks after 4-7 days. Can take over a month to fully disappear.

    Most tanning beds use UVA, which penetrates deeper into the skin. It causes all three forms of tanning, although the delayed tanning is not as strong as with UVB. Relative to the "therapeutic" dose, UVA tends to cause the most damage to the skin (UVB is more damaging per joule, but you use significantly less)

    UVB (and UVC, although nobody uses that) also causes tanning. It's not generally used in tanning beds because it also causes sunburn (UVA, particularly UVA2, can also cause sunburn, but it's not as prone to as UVB). A particular target region however is NB-UVB (narrowband), which only has 10-20% of the sunburn risk as BB-UVB (broadband, aka, the whole UVB spectrum). UVB does not penetrate as deeply into the skin as UVA. A "therapeutic" NB-UVB dose may cause mild erythema (reddening), but no immediate darkening. This then transitions to a strong delayed tanning response. UVB tans do more to protect against further sunburn than UVA tans.

    An argument can be made for switching from UVA tanning to NB-UVB tanning. But one should be clear, both damage the skin. There are medical applications for UVA or NB-UVB exposure (skin conditions like eczema, vitiligo, etc), but vitamin D is not one of them; the safest way to get it is supplements. Indeed, if you only want vitamin D, you don't want either UVA (which contributes virtually nothing) or NB-UVB exposure; you want a band in the 293-300nm region, where vitamin D synthesis is at a maximum. You can use several orders of magnitude less power than you'd use for a NB-UVB tan (and even less still vs. a UVA tan) - just a couple dozen milliwatts per square meter - and still produce daily doses of vitamin D in minutes.

    • By the way, all the recent studies are showing that vitamin D supplements to not give health benefits. It looks like the sun exposure was causing the benefits, so taking away the exposure and replacing it with supplements doesn't work.

      https://www.outsideonline.com/... [outsideonline.com]

      • by Rei ( 128717 )

        Indeed, light has a lot of effects on the body beyond just D synthesis. When I first heard about phototherapy my reaction was, "Yeah, what a bunch of new-age hippie BS." After spending a lot of time reading peer-reviewed papers on the subject, I'm completely sold. Light has a lot of effects on the body. It's amazing the number of conditions that react to it - some beyond just the spot that's exposed (for example, the immunosuppressive effect of UV - which is actually good in many circumstances, when deal

  • Vitamin D (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Dan East ( 318230 ) on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:02PM (#57966662) Journal

    A four-year-long study of 1,113 people in Nambour, Queensland, found no difference in vitamin D levels between sunscreen users and sunscreen avoiders.

    I wonder how they controlled external sources of Vitamin D. Everything from milk to cheese, breakfast cereal, orange juice, etc, as been fortified with Vitamin D. People in developed countries do not need sunlight for their Vitamin D. I don't think anyone would expect a person using sunscreen would have lower than normal vitamin D levels. If the study was not properly controlled, all it may have proven is that non-sunscreen users don't have elevated vitamin D levels.

    • People in developed countries do not need sunlight for their Vitamin D.

      They may not need it for Vitamin D, but they do need it. The largest, most extensive study on Vitamin D supplements was just concluded a few months ago, and despite the fact that we know from prior research that people with better Vitamin D levels are significantly healthier (e.g. heart, cancer, etc.), the study found that there was no discernible benefit to consuming additional Vitamin D (i.e. Vitamin D levels did not correlate to better health among people taking Vitamin D supplements). The findings seem

    • by trawg ( 308495 )

      Australian milk generally does not have vitamin D added, as far as I know. At least the usual one I get does not.

      You can buy milk with added vitamin D, but I believe it's usually sold with higher calcium milk to aid absorption.

      I'm not sure about other foods. I remember being surprised when I lived in the USA a couple years ago that all the milk had vitamin D. (I was diagnosed with a vitamin D deficiency after being there for a few months of Midwest winter!)

  • My father-in-law died of melanoma. A tumor which started on the sole of his foot. The only times he was in the sun, was when he gardened (not much), went fishing (which can also be done without sun), and possibly on Sunday mornings when he went playing with the finches.

    • Indeed, it appears that the most dangerous forms of skin cancer are not typically caused by the sun. Sun induced cancers tend to be easy to treat.

      Sorry to hear about your father-in-law.

    • Cancer is caused by cell generation/mutation that went wrong and can happen at any time - usually later in life, causing uncontrollable growth and with melanoma and many other cancers the ability to detach and spread to other parts of the body.
      When you're in the sun, you're damaging those cells *increasing* the chance of the damaged cells mutating into the above.

      The sun isn't the sole cause.
  • Oh, look, everyone! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ) on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:05PM (#57966696) Journal
    It's todays Thing That Will Kill You Dead Clickbait!
    Be sure to check back next week, when we'll see the absolute opposite posted by someone else clickbait!
  • Is how we survived the 10's of thousands of years as hunter/gatherers without skin cancer eradicating us.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Melanoma is much higher frequency amongst Nordic decedents. People who are from places nearer the equator have much lower frequency, but still get it.

      Take a Nordic person, put them in Australia in the sun all day and you get melanoma. Most Australians descended from the UK which were highly mixed with Vikings. Up in Norway, not enough sunlight, so they evolved just fine for where they were. Move them around and you get it.

      I believe Australia has some of the highest melanoma rates in the world.

    • There are at least 2 factors that may have come in play.

      1: Lower life expectancy meant not enough time for cancer to develop.
      2: Until the 1940s, the planet had not been irradiated, though plenty of other poisons had already been dumped into the environment by then.

      That's just my guess.

      IDDD (aka ID3 aka I Don't Do Disclaimers)

    • We had fur. That's a problem with evolution: we started using clothes (to be warmer), and with global warming then fur wasn't needed and removed.

    • by Alsn ( 911813 )
      How is that even a difficult question? If you have an average lifespan of ~30 years due to infectious disease, starvation, dehydration, hypo/hyperthermia, poisonous food, or being eaten by predators, how exactly would a really slow acting low risk/high impact disease like skin cancer "eradicate" us? I know that it's popular to join the "everything causes cancer!" bandwagon but it's really not that difficult to understand. It's still good to know that being in the sun is always a risk, however small. Vitamin
    • If I had to guess, people on average were slightly more hardy. Up until recently, infant mortality rates were over 40%, so surviving to the age of 5 was a relatively big deal. There are all manner of conditions that modern medicine can treat that would have resulted in a dead kid even 50 years ago.

      Also, just because people were outside more doesn't mean that they ran around naked all the time. There are plenty of parts of the world where you'd freeze to death before having to worry about skin cancer. Whe
  • Had we not burned a huge hole in the ozone layer, they would not have the increased skin cancer rates.
  • by mesterha ( 110796 ) <chris.mesterharm ... com minus author> on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @01:26PM (#57966888) Homepage
    Maybe vitamin D is not the only reason the sun is good for you. https://www.outsideonline.com/... [outsideonline.com]
  • If the sun is doing skin damage, clearly we need a new sun!

    And... Why do "white" people want to be black?

    Or, maybe we need to find a new planet. I'm tired of all the news about Trump, such as: In 710 days, President Trump has made 7,645 false or misleading claims [washingtonpost.com].

    The real solution: Take vitamin pills every day? Vitamins A, D, E, and K are not soluble in water [verywellhealth.com], so there is an upper limit to how much you should take.
  • You know what air contains? Oxygen! That stuff is a serious oxidant. Perhaps only more dangerous if mixed with hydrogen to create H2O - immersion in which will KILL you in minutes!

    See? You can make a scare story from anything. Sure, there's no such thing as a safe tan. There's no such thing as a safe life either but I bet H. Peter Soyer ain't planning on suicide any time soon.

  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    Slip on a shirt,
    Slop on the 50+ sunscreen,
    Slap on a hat,
    Seek shade or shelter,
    Slide on some glasses used to block out sun

    And come back Norm .. we miss you!

  • by Dixie_Flatline ( 5077 ) <vincent@jan@goh.gmail@com> on Tuesday January 15, 2019 @05:02PM (#57968734) Homepage

    "So Lindqvist decided to look at overall mortality rates, and the results were shocking. Over the 20 years of the study, sun avoiders were twice as likely to die as sun worshippers.

    There are not many daily lifestyle choices that double your risk of dying. In a 2016 study published in the Journal of Internal Medicine, Lindqvist’s team put it in perspective: “Avoidance of sun exposure is a risk factor of a similar magnitude as smoking, in terms of life expectancy.”"

    And also:

    "Melanoma, the deadly type of skin cancer, is much rarer, accounting for only 1 to 3 percent of new skin cancers. And perplexingly, outdoor workers have half the melanoma rate of indoor workers. Tanned people have lower rates in general. “The risk factor for melanoma appears to be intermittent sunshine and sunburn, especially when you’re young,” says Weller. “But there’s evidence that long-term sun exposure associates with less melanoma.”"

    So regardless of whether you believe sun is bad for your or not, I rather think saying "the advice is clear" is so abjectly wrong, you should probably take everything else that's said with a huge grain of salt. There is almost never completely clear advice when it comes to things like thins.

  • Look it up. Safe tan, production cost is pennies but of course you cannot have it. Disclaimer: i've already made a fortune out of it. But it took 10+ years.
  • I read the summary as safe TAN, and was confused when it talked about tan instead.

Don't tell me how hard you work. Tell me how much you get done. -- James J. Ling

Working...