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$1.4 Million Raised on GoFundMe For 'Garbage' Homeopathy Cancer Treatment Scams (gizmodo.com) 180

"Medical crowdfunding has become a billion-dollar industry practically overnight, led by sites like GoFundMe," reports Gizmodo, citing new research on its dark side: over a million dollars in donations "funneled to ludicrous, unscientific treatments for life-threatening diseases like cancer." The authors of the study, published Thursday in The Lancet, searched for a particular kind of medical crowdfunding campaign on GoFundMe: campaigns for cancer treatments that involved the use of homeopathy. Homeopathy might easily be considered the lowest-hanging fruit of medical quackery. The theory behind how it works is nonsensical (in short, its proponents claim water can be programmed with the "memory" of toxic substances that will then treat the symptoms they normally cause); there are no good studies that show it works; and its practitioners are some of the most brazen cranks this side of P.T. Barnum still kicking. "These treatments are the bunkiest of the bunk, just complete garbage," lead author Jeremy Snyder, a bioethicist at Simon Fraser University in Canada, told Gizmodo.

Snyder and his co-author found that over 200 GoFundMe campaigns, as of June 2018, had been created to help fund homeopathic cancer treatments...and were shared on Facebook more than 100,000 times in total. They collectively asked for more than $5 million in funding, and raised $1.4 million from over 13,000 donors.... Snyder and his co-author also tried to find out what ultimately happened to the people behind all these campaigns. Sometimes, the campaigns would have final updates reporting the person had died; other times, they were able to track down obituaries. In total, they found that 28 percent of the people had died by the time of their search. But even that might be an underestimate...

A third of campaigns even explicitly stated that all contributions went to people who'd chosen to avoid doctors. "I have a huge amount of sympathy for these people. They're very sick and desperate," Snyder says. "But it's concerning to see them be taken in by these claims." Gizmodo adds, "That's to say nothing of the kind people who are being roped into donating their money to medical charlatans."

"[W]e believe it is not our place to tell them what decision to make," GoFundMe said in a statement. They added that "ultimately it is up to the GoFundMe community to decide which campaigns to donate to."
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$1.4 Million Raised on GoFundMe For 'Garbage' Homeopathy Cancer Treatment Scams

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  • Should it be a criminal offence to mislead somebody into taking actions that will lead to their certain death, e.g. telling someone not to seek professional medical attention & to take sugar pills instead when they have cancer? "Alternative medicine" vendors should have to provide valid, reliable evidence that their claims are correct, just like the pharma companies are supposed to. Not a perfect system but at least you can sue a pharma company when they lie about their drugs.
    • Re:Criminal (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Saturday January 05, 2019 @06:08PM (#57910414)

      "Alternative medicine" vendors should have to provide valid, reliable evidence that their claims are correct

      They ARE required to do that, IF they are selling medicine. But they aren't.

      First, they make no specific claims that their product cures anything. They may imply that it will help, but they don't actually say it. So they don't have to support their claims, since there are no claims.

      Second, there is nothing to regulate. Homeopathic "medicine" doesn't have any active ingredients. There is nothing in it.

      You can only go so far in protecting stupid people from themselves. In a free society, at some point you have to accept that some people will make stupid decisions.

      Btw, the new money hole for stupid people is "alkaline water". My neighbor bought a $4000 water ionizer [wikipedia.org]. She was disappointed when I showed her she could get the same effect with a 50 cent box of baking soda, and that there is zero evidence that "alkaline water" is healthy in any way.

      • In a free society, at some point you have to accept that some people will make stupid decisions.

        Go. Ahead. Blame. The. Victims.

        Fraud is fraud, no matter how they dress it up. Alternative medicine needs to be publicly & prominently exposed for what it is. The alternative medicine industry tends to be aggressively litigious when scientists, the press, or anyone else tries to do this. When it's a problem affecting a significant number of citizens, it's the government's job to do something about it, not sitting on their hands or blaming the victims.

        Or do we count freedom to deceive, manipulate, exploi

    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      While I agree, a lot of what the Big Pharma got rich on and is continuing to rake in money by the shipload is not providing benefits and sometimes is outright harmful. So there is huge opposition to any such requirements already.

      • In contrast, the "alternative medicine" and dietary supplement industries have almost no restrictions on them. They can claim whatever they like. They're worse than the cosmetics industry.
  • Slats (Score:4, Insightful)

    by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Saturday January 05, 2019 @05:46PM (#57910308) Journal

    1.4 Million Raised on GoFundMe For 'Garbage' Homeopathy Cancer Treatment Scams

    That's nothing. There's been over $18 million raised to build a wall to boost the ego of a demented wannabe dictator. A wall that would be a little less effective than homeopathy cancer treatments.

    But hope springs eternal. They've only got $24,982,000,000.00 to go. Where sheep go one, they go all.

    • Re: Slats (Score:1, Troll)

      by c6gunner ( 950153 )

      We've been building walls for millennia for a reason. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you're stupid enough to think that a wall is as ineffective as homeopathy. Intelligent people understand their utility.

      • Re: Slats (Score:5, Interesting)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Saturday January 05, 2019 @06:26PM (#57910482)

        It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you're stupid enough to think that a wall is as ineffective as homeopathy. Intelligent people understand their utility.

        You should ask the Chinese about the effectiveness of walls [wikipedia.org].

        History has shown it is wise to constructively engage with your neighbors. Building walls is the opposite of that.

        Also, net migration from Mexico is near zero. The main reason for that is economic growth and better job opportunities in Mexico.

        Today, most illegals are coming from further south: El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. $25B spent on economic cooperation with these countries would do infinitely more good than the same money spent on a wall.

        • by Strider- ( 39683 )

          The only way that you will ever stem the flow of economic, political, and poverty refugees and migrants it's too achieve the same level of development, freedom, and security of person as their origin country. Personally I would rather see this be done by raising their standard of living rather than sinking to theirs.

          Canada and the US have the world's longest undefended border and there is very little irregular migration across it. In most places it's marked by nothing more than a drainage ditch or a 20' wid

          • Re: Slats (Score:5, Interesting)

            by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Saturday January 05, 2019 @06:47PM (#57910570)

            The only way that you will ever stem the flow of economic, political, and poverty refugees and migrants it's too achieve the same level of development, freedom, and security of person as their origin country.

            Bullcrap. Mexico is an obvious counterexample. Their economy is no where near America's level, but it is "good enough" for people to stay home.

            Illegal migrants are now coming from countries further south that are much poorer and dangerous than Mexico. El Salvador has the world's highest murder rate, and Honduras the 2nd highest, both driven by illegal drug demand in the USA. Comprehensive legalization would be a far better solution than a wall.

            • If you're retarded enough to characterise 130,000 Mexicans arrested trying to cross the border in 2017 as "Mexicans staying home", then there's certainly no helping you.

              • If you're retarded enough to characterise 130,000 Mexicans arrested trying to cross the border in 2017 as "Mexicans staying home", then there's certainly no helping you.

                Do you know what "net migration" means? In 2017, the number of Mexican immigrants living in America went DOWN by 300k, from 11.6M to 11.3M.

                • Yes I know what "net migration" means. You apparently don't know what "staying home" means. Not surprising given that you're the same simpleton who tried to argue that walls are useless because China was invaded.

                  • Nice way of deflecting from the fact that net migration is negative.
                  • You apparently don't know what "staying home" means.

                    Look, I understand your fixation on literal meanings. I am an Aspie myself. But when I said Mexicans are "staying home", I didn't mean that every single Mexican refuses to leave their house, and has food delivered by drone.

                    I meant it figuratively. They are emigrating at far lower rates than in the past, and emigration is more than balanced out by Mexicans returning to Mexico to take advantage of the greater economic opportunities.

                    I apologize if this went over your head. In the future, I will try to use

                    • Look, I understand your fixation on literal meanings. I am an Aspie myself. But when I said Mexicans are "staying home", I didn't mean that every single Mexican refuses to leave their house, and has food delivered by drone.

                      I meant it figuratively.

                      If you think that 130,000 illegal immigrants being arrested in one year can be " figuratively" characterised as "people staying home", you're not an aspie, you're an idiot.

                      They are emigrating at far lower rates than in the past, and emigration is more than balanced out by Mexicans returning to Mexico to take advantage of the greater economic opportunities.

                      Which is completely fucking irrelevant when we are talking about border security. It would be relevant if your primary concern was how many Mexicans are in the US at any given time, but that's not at all what the discussion is about. I can see why you've reached the idiotic conclusion that walls are useless, though; you seem to have no

        • It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you're stupid enough to think that a wall is as ineffective as homeopathy. Intelligent people understand their utility.

          You should ask the Chinese about the effectiveness of walls [wikipedia.org].

          History has shown it is wise to constructively engage with your neighbors. Building walls is the opposite of that.

          Also, net migration from Mexico is near zero. The main reason for that is economic growth and better job opportunities in Mexico.

          Today, most illegals are coming from further south: El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. $25B spent on economic cooperation with these countries would do infinitely more good than the same money spent on a wall.

          Lots of rich liberals have walls around their homes and/or neighborhoods, so they seem to believe that they work.

          And the greater their proximity to the poor and desperate, the more likely they are to have those walls.

          • Lots of rich liberals have walls around their homes and/or neighborhoods, so they seem to believe that they work.

            They are wrong. Gated communities don't have less crime [sciencedaily.com].

            Walls don't work.

            • Walls don't work

              From your own article:

              "gated communities do lower the odds of experiencing a residential burglary even when controlling for housing unit factors such as tenure, income, and geographical location as well as individual characteristics such as age [and] race"

              You really are retarded.

        • Today, most illegals are coming from further south: El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. $25B spent on economic cooperation with these countries would do infinitely more good than the same money spent on a wall.

          The problem is if you send economic assistance to those countries, you get accused of helping prop up corrupt governments [transparency.org]. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

          I think a wall is a stupid idea. But I also think welcoming refugees from those countries with open arms does more damage than good.

      • Yet, for some reason we stopped building castles. Hmmm... it's almost as if technology made them obsolete...

    • The folks charged with securing the border overwhelmingly want a wall to assist their job [washingtontimes.com]. I think they have a little more experience, knowledge - and investment - in the wall issue than you do...
      • Ironically, in their pursuit of it, they are now not getting paid. More over, the people who REALLY stop lots of smuggling (the Coast Guard) are also not getting paid either.

        In any case, to have that wall will require either martial law being declared, in order to seize the land (Trump is working on this, under the guise of National Emergency), or an insane amount of money spent just slugging out the legal hassles with landowners.

        • At least they're carrying out the overwhelming will of the people [washingtontimes.com]. If only Chuck and Nancy would listen to the full electorate - not just those they want to listen to. Perhaps they don't want to be offended by listening to ideas that are incredibly popular and supported by the vast majority but just want to live in their own little echo chambers safely protected by a wall [observer.com].
          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            Chuck and Nancy are implementing the will of the people by insisting on spending taxpayer money on things that might actually work. Stroking Trump's ego is an incredibly ineffective strategy for securing the border.

  • American here (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Saturday January 05, 2019 @05:48PM (#57910320)
    I know some folks into homeopathy and it's been because they couldn't afford real doctors and medicine. I can buy some fake cure on Amazon for $50 bucks. That won't even get me in a doc's office if I don't have insurance.

    Nearly all medical go fund me's fail. It's only that there's so many of them that makes it a billion dollar industry (that and a billion dollars isn't a lot of money anymore, not globally, it's just that we humans are bad with numbers over a few thousand). I suspect that's what's going on here. Folks aren't expecting to get enough money for cancer treatment (which can be millions) so they're doing what they think they can.

    Bottom line most people can't live without hope. Nerds often can, and it's one of the things that makes us nerds.
    • Re: American here (Score:5, Insightful)

      by c6gunner ( 950153 ) on Saturday January 05, 2019 @06:01PM (#57910388) Homepage

      I know some folks into homeopathy and it's been because they couldn't afford real doctors and medicine

      No, it's been because they didn't really understand what they were buying. If you're already poor you're certainly not going to waste money on something you know doesn't work. If I can't pay my electric bill I'm not going to go out and buy a perpetual motion machine.

      As someone else pointed out earlier, Steve Jobs wasted his time and money on alternative medicine when conventional medicine had a very strong chance of helping him live another decade or two. Are you going to tell me he couldn't afford actual medicine?

      The problem isn't money; it's ignorance.

      • Homeopathy scams are much, much more popular with the poor (as is faith healing in general).

        Human beings will always seek out hope, and bastards will always be there to sell the false kind to them.
      • If I can't pay my electric bill I'm not going to go out and buy a perpetual motion machine.

        You might if you have a somewhat weak understanding of physics and the person selling the perpetual motion machine promises that for about the price of one electric bill you can be free of the power company forever! And after all, Big Power exists solely to perpetuate itself. It quashes all the free-energy machines because they're not profitable. Don't be a rube! Buy our perpetual motion machine and stick it to the

    • Re:American here (Score:5, Informative)

      by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Saturday January 05, 2019 @06:31PM (#57910504)

      I know some folks into homeopathy and it's been because they couldn't afford real doctors and medicine.

      Homeopathy is WAY more popular in the UK and many EU countries that it is in the US. These are countries with mostly single-payer healthcare. There is no evidence that homeopathy is driven by affordability.

      Use of homeopathy across the world [hri-research.org]

      • here in America it is. And I think the reason Homeopathy is "less popular" here is that we've got the Evangelical faith healers who compete with the Homeopaths.

        It's actually become a major source of irritation in the athiest community because more Americans are professing "none" for their religion (which takes them out of the running for faith healers) but then turning to pseudo science "woo" like homeopathy.

        Regardless it's not about money, it's about hope. In America money gets involved because the
      • > Homeopathy is WAY more popular in the UK and many EU countries that it is in the US

        Everyone read this several times. I wish I could upvote it to 5 right now.

      • You know well that statistics can be misleading. Use of homeopathy is high in Europe... for things such as treating a flu. Which might not be such a bad thing after all, since over medication and over use of antibiotics is a current concern. I do not think the use of homeopathy is so high for more serious illness cases - especially since public health insurance systems will provide access to modern medecine treatments.
  • Peopel are guillable (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Registered Coward v2 ( 447531 ) on Saturday January 05, 2019 @05:58PM (#57910378)
    I worked with someone who believed in homepathy and the power of crystals to cure diseases. Her attitude was "So what if there is no proof it works; what if it does and everyone is wrong?" She was well educated, and not ill, but for whatever reason would not accept any data that conflicted with her belief. That is in line with a recent study I heard about that shoiws presenting data that conflicts with a person's viewpopint just hardens their position rather than convinces them to change it.
    • by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Another failure of "education". Worthwhile education allows you to challenge, verify and, if needed, adjust your beliefs. Yes, it is hard getting there and yes, most people generally thought to be "educated" are in fact not.

      • Another failure of "education". Worthwhile education allows you to challenge, verify and, if needed, adjust your beliefs. Yes, it is hard getting there and yes, most people generally thought to be "educated" are in fact not.

        While I agree with you, deep seated beliefs, even if they are wrong, are hard to change. When presented with facts counter to those beliefs people tend to discount them. It’s not a matter of education but rather human nature. A recent article on this topic is https://www.npr.org/2017/12/25... [npr.org]

    • "He who cures is right" is one of the arguments I get to hear quite often. It cures, after all, doesn't it? I feel better when I take it, so it's good.

      That's why I started Pizzapathy now. Whenever I have a headache, I eat a pizza tonno. And 2 to 20 hours later it's gone. Sometimes it gets worse, that shows me that the therapy is working. That's the initial worsening. Then, I immediately eat another pizza tonno and it's gone. Occasionally it doesn't work. But that's probably due to the pizza not having been

  • I have a friend who is well educated, though in the arts, who reacted very negatively when I made a comment about the silliness of homeopathy. I was informed that in Europe it was generally accepted and had repeatedly been proven effective. He blamed big drug companies for bogus studies showing that it didn't work.

    Guess this type of argument actually pre-dates Trump.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Saturday January 05, 2019 @07:18PM (#57910706)

      I have a friend who is well educated, though in the arts, who reacted very negatively when I made a comment about the silliness of homeopathy.

      Not "well" educated. May have learned some facts but never got what facts are or how they are found.

      I was informed that in Europe it was generally accepted and had repeatedly been proven effective.

      A complete lie. What happened a while ago is that some private insurers started to offer paying for some "alternative" treatments (only cheap ones). It makes perfect sense for them to do so economically, as they are competing for customers (you select your on insurance in most of Europe) and many of their customers are clueless how medicine works and unaware of that. The utter failure of politics was to not stop that.

    • by ledow ( 319597 )

      In my European country (which may not be true in a few month's time, which kinda gives away which one it is), claiming or even implying that homeopathy - or indeed any non-medical treatment - cures cancer is actually illegal without proper peer-reviewed science behind it.

      We also have laws that psychics and other charlatans must only advertise if they have a visible clause that it's "for entertainment purposes only".

      Neither are generally accepted anywhere, except by morons.

    • Europe here. It's not.

  • This solves two problems. Those who undergo this "treatment" will die off and the fools who fund this nonsense will be out their money.

    • by ledow ( 319597 )

      Someone somewhere is being paid to take water, sell it to others, claim it's curing them, being funded to the hilt to continue to do so, and has no comeback from "unsatisfied customers".

      Though an ideal business model, it's also a scam that shouldn't be allowed to proliferate, especially with any kind of "medical" claim behind it.

      I don't give a damn about the people paying, or the people stupid enough to rely on this stuff. I do give a damn about people making a business from fraud and potentially enticing

    • No, it doesn't. It creates a giant fucking problem, which is all of our problem: Preventable and curable illnesses addressed early cost far, far less to deal with than they do later. Unless you think very ill and dying people vanish in a puff of smoke, you should realize that every person who takes an ambulance ride to the ER costs the medical system money. Everyone who needs long-term care because their treatable or preventable illness didn't get medical treatment is a drain on the system. Every family tha

  • This is chicken shit.

    200 GoFundMe campaigns raised $1.4 million from 13,000 donors, over several years ?

    This is a giant problem that requires government intervention ?

    Come on, we live in a "free" society and there are stupid people everywhere.

    Most of the donors were just being "nice" to a dying person who didn't trust doctors.

    Now lets pay some attention attentions to the 10's if not 100's of BILLIONS of dollars that Big Pharma robs from us every DAY!

  • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Saturday January 05, 2019 @06:29PM (#57910496)

    No, I will not call homeopathy "medicine", because it is not. However, while homeopathy is basically a really screwed up belief, medicine is not doing so well. It would not be an overstatement that it is one of the worst and perhaps the worst performer in the STEM field. Still nothing really good on cancer, took half a century with AIDS and still no real treatment, still nothing effective against the flu or the common cold, the upcoming antibiotics crisis, etc. In addition hugely disproportional costs, probably because treatments are generally not really good. The list of failures of medicine is really long and it is totally inadequate for what science and technology can do today and what other STEM fields achieve.

    As a result, people look for alternatives. And when you do not understand science and see the pretty bad options medicine has for cancer (e.g.), it is understandable that homeopathy may look like an "alternative". That it is not based on science and offers basically the 0-rate of cures (patients gets better by themselves, which even for cancer is not zero), is something people have trouble seeing. But the root-cause for this thing being still around is that the offering by medicine is so bad. Hence the fix for things like homeopathy is to have medical research finally get their asses in gear and start doing solid science, start bringing cost down and effectiveness and quality of outcome up. And, in particular, get their egos under control and admit where they really stand and begin to do something about it.

    • by Strider- ( 39683 ) on Saturday January 05, 2019 @06:46PM (#57910558)

      Still nothing really good on cancer, took half a century with AIDS and still no real treatment

      I'll challenge you on the AIDS claim. Modern medicine has done an incredible job at turning what was one a short term death sentence into what is now a manageable chronic condition. We have become so good at it that the hospital here in Vancouver, which was once at the heart of one of the worst outbreaks in the developed world, choose to shut down their AIDS ward because they hadn't had a patient in over a year. This was a few years ago.

      Given how the mechanism behind the disease, this is truly remarkable and a triumph of modern medicine.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        "Managing a chronic condition" is not curing it. It is just creation of somebody permanently dependent on treatment. (Probably intentional, as this is the most profitable case: permanent sickness, but late death.) I think the whole thing is an abysmal failure and nicely illustrates the incapability of modern medicine.

        Oh, sure, for what they have, this is impressive. But what they have in insight and tools and methods is pathetic and an utter disgrace. It is basically the same thing if computer engineers wer

        • by Anonymous Coward

          From raging deadly epidemic to hardly any deaths in ~20 years... a disgrace!!! So outrageous.
          By what standard? Do you think somehow that medical advances should follow Moore's Law or some dumb shit?

          Perhaps you should lend your immense brainpower to the medical establishment... simply explain that they need a paradigm shift, like away from relay, right past vacuum tubes, straight to transistors! If you dream it, you can do it. Clearly there are no smart people in the field.

          Take a look at some other fields...

        • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 05, 2019 @08:38PM (#57911110)

          I don't think you fully appreciate just how complicated medicine is. There are a lot of factors in every disease and progress is necessarily slow.

          As for factors, what you call "cancer" is actually a few dozen distinct diseases [cancer.gov] with similar etiology (DNA somewhere in some cell broke) but completely different presentations and treatments. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other. HIV is a retrovirus made of RNA and mutates constantly. There are two distinct strains and several different recognizable subgroups [avert.org]. The flu isn't a retrovirus but similarly mutates constantly. [cdc.gov] Every year we get a little genetic drift and every few years we get a genetic shift and we get screwed until it gets under control.

          As for progress, the progress we've made is incredible in the last decades. Your comparisons are completely off base. If an electrical engineer lets the magic smoke out of a few components on a PCB he just gets new components or a new PCB. If a physician or medical researcher destroys a few organs in a patient he just killed a human being. You simply cannot move fast and break things in this field. Breast cancer (probably the best funded) survival is now over 90% [healthline.com]. Want to see truly huge gains? Try leukemia. [lls.org]. HIV has improved, too. PrEP can prevent the spread and maybe in a few generations we won't have to worry about finding a cure for it because we have eradicated it like we did smallpox. Oh! Remember seeing that one recently? No. You didn't. Because vaccines have made it possible to completely eradicated diseases. Polio is only endemic in a handful of countries now. Why? Because medicine DOES work.

          Maybe you're not happy with the speed of progress but that's because of your broken standards, not because we're moving too slow.

        • You are pretty much totally wrong.

          The current management routines are dropping HIV to what is essentially a non-transmissible level in the blood. And no, for the individual person, that's not a cure. But over time, this is dramatically reducing the transmission rate, and over the next couple of decades, it's going to head very rapidly the way polio went. Unless you're going to define "cure" so narrowly that we haven't cured polio?

          And that is even if we don't actually find an individual cure it in the near f

    • Oh god, which fucktards upvoted this bullshit?

      Nothing really good on cancer? How about going from a certain killer to simple preventative cheap vaccine in the space of 15 years? That's HPV, if you didn't know.

      There are loads of examples like that.

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        There are loads of examples like that.

        There _really_ are not. This is a rare success story and that is why it gets so hyped.

    • Well, one way of bringing down the cost would be to start at the liability. Because believe it or not, one big part of medical costs is liability insurance (or, in case of large pharma corporation, a sizable legal and liability reserve. You'll notice a curious coincidence of the price of medical procedures and pharmaceuticals and the amount of money you can milk from "malpractice". If it has to be actual malpractice, i.e. a doctor deliberately or in gross negligence actually causing you harm, it's usually w

  • Fools and their bitcoin are soon parted.
  • how much of it is money laundering?
  • by ledow ( 319597 )

    People give millions every year to TV evangelists, conmen, conspiracy theory pushers... what's the difference?

    I'm much more concerned at the billions given to churches and the Vatican to polish their gold-and-diamond-encrusted religious items, than some nutter funding another's own willing death.

    • But I I wanted to fund someone else's death, I could just invest in some weapon manufacturer. I get revenue, they get killed, it's just so win-win.

  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday January 07, 2019 @04:28AM (#57916080)

    Gee. Considering how many times I flushed the toilet and used it to transport shit, let's hope it doesn't hold grudges.

Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man -- who has no gills. -- Ambrose Bierce

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