'Sending Astronauts To Mars Would be Stupid' (bbc.com) 473
One of the first men to orbit the Moon has told BBC Radio 5 Live that it's "stupid" to plan human missions to Mars. Bill Anders, lunar module pilot of Apollo 8, the first human spaceflight to leave Earth's orbit, said sending crews to Mars was "almost ridiculous". From a report: NASA is currently planning new human missions to the Moon. It wants to learn the skills and develop the technology to enable a future human landing on Mars. NASA was approached for a response to Anders' comments, but hasn't responded.
Anders, 85, said he's a "big supporter" of the "remarkable" unmanned programmes, "mainly because they're much cheaper". But he says the public support simply isn't there to fund vastly more expensive human missions. "What's the imperative? What's pushing us to go to Mars?" he said, adding "I don't think the public is that interested". Meanwhile, robotic probes are still exploring Mars. Last month, the InSight lander, which will sample the planet's interior, successfully touched down at Elysium Planitia. Further reading: Bill Nye: We Are Not Going To Live on Mars, Let Alone Turn It Into Earth.
Anders, 85, said he's a "big supporter" of the "remarkable" unmanned programmes, "mainly because they're much cheaper". But he says the public support simply isn't there to fund vastly more expensive human missions. "What's the imperative? What's pushing us to go to Mars?" he said, adding "I don't think the public is that interested". Meanwhile, robotic probes are still exploring Mars. Last month, the InSight lander, which will sample the planet's interior, successfully touched down at Elysium Planitia. Further reading: Bill Nye: We Are Not Going To Live on Mars, Let Alone Turn It Into Earth.
The Public will be interested if it is made so (Score:0, Insightful)
Leaders lead, sheep follow.
Latency (Score:5, Insightful)
Communications to Mars have stupid high latency. 4 to 24 minutes depending on where Mars happens to be.
As a result, the robots have to be incredibly paranoid and drive at a snail's pace. Put some people there and with good equipment they could get stuff done 20 times faster, not to mention doing things the robots aren't equipped for.
Put a small fabrication shop on Mars, and they'll be able to craft whatever tool's needed for the job on the spot if anything unexpected comes up.
Age of the Pussies? (Score:5, Insightful)
Did somebody put something in the entire western world's drinking water, or why is everyone so ridiculously overly cautious and scared of literally everything nowadays?
Seriously, not trolling or anything... Hasn't anybody else noticed this trend?
Where's the spirit of "Worth it!"? ;)
I won't impose my maybe crass view on anyone, but IMHO a bit of pain or even dying isn't *that* bad, compared to never having actually lived at all. It's not like we are bad at making even more humans until we die in our own waste.
I'd rather live suicidal 40 years, than boring 120.
Cost (Score:3, Insightful)
Because it's there (Score:5, Insightful)
was the reason for climbing Everest [wikiquote.org] and is a good enough reason for going to Mars.
We also need to get off this planet before we are wiped out by an asteroid or something. Doing that in large numbers and creating a self sufficient colony on some other rock (preferably circling another star) will be very hard, a toe hold on Mars would be a great start.
Stepping stones. (Score:5, Insightful)
All our missions to space aren't really the mission. The mission is really just an extension of what humans have always done, explored new places, learn stuff and then settle them. Going to mars doesn't have lots of value but developing all the technology to keep humans alive far from Earth for an extended period is part of our great mission. Humanity is pushing the limits of what is humanly possible so that we can later push even further. We're colonizing the solar system, the galaxy and then the universe while learning about it every step of the way. FTL travel seems unlikely and our bodies are weak but it's still not going to stop us for we will adapt to overcome these obstacles.
Besides, if we don't go to space, how are we ever going to find out what happens when we throw Alice into a black hole? ;)
Re:Latency (Score:4, Insightful)
You could put 200 robots on Mars and still not add up to the cost of a single manned mission, and do far, far more science. Humans on Mars will struggle just to stay alive (and probably won't). Just send more robots.
Re:Because it's there (Score:5, Insightful)
No appreciable fraction of a percent of humanity living on the Earth now, nor of their decedents for several generations, has any genuine hope of making a home on Mars even if their is a concerted effort to get there.
Mars or no Mars, if an asteroid hits Earth, the vast, vast majority of humanity dies out. Don't even start with the outpost crap, spend the money on environmental care or even asteroid diversion missions for a much higher cost-payoff ratio. Heck, even if an asteroid did hit we'd have a vastly easier time "terraforming" the resulting Earth.
Re:Age of the Pussies? (Score:2, Insightful)
No, get with the program: Everyone now has to be coddled from cradle to grave, not try anything that could fail, and if it after all does fail, pretend that it didn't in order to prevent any learning from taking place.
If something is hard, don't even try it, then you won't fail! That's the spirit. Under no circumstances human life can be at risk - like going out of the house or the like.
And I agree with the astronaut in that public support isn't there, but hopefully SpaceX pans out - then it won't matter whether there is "public support". It has always rubbed me the wrong way that going to space is at the whim of congressmen and their constituency (or in other countries, worse), most of whom have no idea about science and wouldn't recognize courage if it hit them on the head.
All that without recognizing the huge amount of untapped resources that are in space - which even greedy people could appreciate.
Just like every endeavour... (Score:3, Insightful)
This is no different from any endeavor that is on the edge of what our abilities and technology allow. It can seem silly and fraught with far more risk than benefit. This is because the end benefit lies beyond our vision. Just like it did for the Wright brothers and those (and this wasn't a fringe minority) that felt, even after their success, that manned flight was dumb and too risky and provided little benefit.
One of human's worst traits is that we head in a direction before we're smart and/or wise enough to know the end result.
One of human's best traits is that we head in a direction before we're smart and/or wise enough to know the end result.
For better or worse, it's going to happen. It's going to happen because technology will make it possible. Right now technology is only in reach of governments and billionaires. And they are already talking about it and making not unserious plans. Once the technology threshold lowers, it's inevitable.
I suspect neither Bill (Anders or Nye) can understand that end point for the same reason that baby boomers have a hard time understanding millennials. Who in their right mind will live with their nose in their phone their entire life? Bill Bye thinks that living in domes and spacesuits makes living on Mars not worth it. For a lot of millenials today, that would hardly require a change in behaviour. There are a lot of people who would unquestionably go today. No, the end result is inevitable. Manned exploration will happen. Colonization will happen.
Re:Latency (Score:5, Insightful)
I would contend that a single astronaut on Mars can do far more science than even 1000 robots. The OP has actually underestimated the problem with using RC robots on Mars: it's not just the time it takes for the signal to reach Mars, but it's the roundtrip - when an operator gives a minimal instruction to the robot, he/she will wait in trepidation for 8 to 48 minutes to find out WTF happened. As a result, as OP says, the robots have to be operated with extreme paranoia - which is the enemy of research and discovery.
But eve MORE importantly, there are things that no amount of robots can accomplish, compared to a single human who can arrange an impromptu test or experiment, or repair,
Re:Stepping stones. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Stepping stones. (Score:4, Insightful)
How perfectly myopic. It will take millennia but we'll manage it. You seem to be stuck in the thoughts of eons long past because to exploration and colonization are a core component of success of humanity. Then again, maybe you just like being a monkey in a tree.
Basket = planet (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree on this part, but have you ever heard the good bit of advice about not putting all your eggs in one basket?
Re:The Public will be interested if it is made so (Score:1, Insightful)
In the US national anthem "Land of the free and the home of the brave" While commonly used to express military braveness in the face of guns and cannons firing around you. But the quality of our freedom is based on how brave we are as a society.
The Space Race which sent a man from the moon, was also being brave enough to allow former enemy Germans into our nation who during the work were world experts in rocketry. We bravely put aside our past history and worked together for greatness.
Today the terrorist won. We no longer want Others into our country where we can learn from them, and they can learn from us. We are too afraid of them, we as a population doesn't want to go further into space we want a well defined borders, and rules on who is the good guy and who are the bad guys. We pine for a simpler time where everything was given to us, and our futures seemed so bright, but we are too afraid to try to make the change.
We have became cowards, afraid of Others, afraid of our neighbor, afraid of the world. This fear causes us to be more oppressed. Either with more laws to make us Safe, or harsher punishment for those who break it. Problems are ignored because it would break our fragile peace with the scary other people.
This isn't just a recent problem under Trump, this was slowly evolving for over a generations. With the end of the cold war, we lost our unified bad guy. Today's bad guys are now complex. As we had spread the US culture to other worlds, they have also shared their cultures with us, this has made everyone unhappy, because of the feeling of general pollution of culture, while it is just growth and understanding. We are too afraid of change, and not willing to stand up and face it, solve the problems rationally. But fight against it, and not think of their side at all.
The Apollo astronaut not know what Apollo was for? (Score:4, Insightful)
Aside from the main reason of allowing the US to show of it's rocket and missile tech to the Russians without directly and obviously pushing the arms race, it got the entire country behind NASA. At it's peak in the 60's, NASA was drawing about 10% of the country's entire GDP and the public was still happy with it. Now with unmanned probes, the public for the most part doesn't know or care what NASA is up do. The budget is a tiny shadow of what it used to be and still draws public outrage.
A manned Mars mission is something that might once again unite people behind space exploration. It's worth it for the societal reasons alone if not for any scientific or technical ones. The 60's and 70's were a generation of hope and wonder partly fueled by "space age" excitement. We now live in tired and cynical times where society is falling apart.
It's sad that an Apollo astronaut doesn't get all that, but it's a sign of the times we live in today.
Re:Latency (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't think of any definition of "Space Nutter" that doesn't include you. You are nuts on the topic.
Really, do you think landing men on Mars is any less useful and productive than the Superbowl? I'd certainly find it more entertaining to watch. I bet it'd be cheaper then the next Avatar movie, as well.
Re: Latency (Score:4, Insightful)
No, people were saying that the Earth was around 25.000 miles around rather then Columbus's claim of 18.000 miles and he'd run out of food and water before arriving in China.
He did luck out in finding a continent before starving, perhaps we'll luck out on an inhabitable planet on the way to Mars.