What Happens After Surprising DNA Test Results? (bloombergquint.com) 238
schwit1 shared an interesting article from Bloomberg:
Though genetic tests are frequently marketed as family-friendly entertainment, they sometimes wind up surfacing life-altering surprises. And when those surprises show up in someone's test results, the first move is often a call to customer service.... At 23andMe, those types of calls are so frequent that preparing for them is integrated into the company's months-long training program.... "We always try to steer the conversation toward the data, tell them that this is science," said Kent Hillyer, head of customer care for the genetic-testing firm 23andMe...
Lindsay Grove, a customer-care representative at 23andMe, still remembers one call in particular years later, a dad who took the test only to find out that his child was not, in fact, his child. At first, like most, he was just trying to figure out whether the results were accurate. So Grove explained the science behind the data. The customer then became somber and quiet. He questioned whether he should talk to his wife, and, if he did, how.... "That process of figuring out what to do next is very difficult for customers...."
Such emotional calls can take a toll on employees, too. That's perhaps inevitable when technology interfaces with such sensitive, personal information.... At 23andMe, Hillyer often encourages representatives to go for a walk after an intense call, or cracks open a bottle of wine to help them decompress. "We kind of do these internal therapy sessions,'' he said. "Here, maybe more so than most places, you have to be really supportive of each other."
Lindsay Grove, a customer-care representative at 23andMe, still remembers one call in particular years later, a dad who took the test only to find out that his child was not, in fact, his child. At first, like most, he was just trying to figure out whether the results were accurate. So Grove explained the science behind the data. The customer then became somber and quiet. He questioned whether he should talk to his wife, and, if he did, how.... "That process of figuring out what to do next is very difficult for customers...."
Such emotional calls can take a toll on employees, too. That's perhaps inevitable when technology interfaces with such sensitive, personal information.... At 23andMe, Hillyer often encourages representatives to go for a walk after an intense call, or cracks open a bottle of wine to help them decompress. "We kind of do these internal therapy sessions,'' he said. "Here, maybe more so than most places, you have to be really supportive of each other."
Do they deal with law enforcement? (Score:2)
Do they deal with law enforcement?
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
What do you mean by 'deal with'? Do they inform law enforcement when an upset customer gets some results that he might react badly to? Or do they track down anonymous DNA samples from crime scenes to expose the identity of criminals?
Re:Do they deal with law enforcement? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do they deal with law enforcement?
You bet they do. That's why it's dangerous to give them your DNA. In fact you may inadvertently be compromising the genetic privacy of your children, their children, your nieces and nephews and their children, etc. All of them can be tracked down from the data point that you unwittingly provided. This is how the government tracked down the Golden State Killer and now that this new capability has been demonstrated it's only a matter of time before it becomes cheaper, faster and more widely available until every small police department has access to it and every incentive to use your DNA against you and your loved ones. The government is cunning, deceitful and untrustworthy. You cannot trust them or their intentions. Please consider carefully the consequences beyond your own privacy before you buy one of these genetic testing kits. The value of the information that you get from these services is minimal and the consequences may end up being worse than you ever imagined. If you thought Facebook was bad then just imagine what the government might do with your genetic information. Just say no to genetic testing this holiday season. It's not worth it.
Re: Do they deal with law enforcement? (Score:2, Insightful)
Or you could, you know, raise your children to not murder people, so they don't need privacy from homicide detectives. Just sayin.
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly. I have nothing to hide, and I'm sure you have nothing to hide either. Who needs the Fourth Amendment?
Re: (Score:3)
That isn't the point. If your genetics match the DNA left by a killer, you'll get a broken door and police search and seizure of evidence soon after. Even if they admit they got the wrong guy, your restitution could be minimal, and your life could still be in shambles, because they took everything valuable and your family ostracized you because they thought and still think you did it.
Re: (Score:2)
How about when the government grabs your genetic results to plan and prioritize health care? They can say that certain DNA is a better bet than substandard DNA. It's always about, "Think of the children!" until it isn't.
Re: (Score:2)
Or you could, you know, raise your children to not murder people, so they don't need privacy from homicide detectives. Just sayin.
Homicide detective's #1 priority is to close cases. It does not matter if they get the actual murderer as long as they can build a strong case against a person -- any person. So if your DNA is found on the scene of the crime (and you leave traces of you DNA whenever you go) and you don't happen to have an ironclad alibi, well then my friend, it sucks to be you.
Re:Do they deal with law enforcement? (Score:4, Informative)
23andMe, which this article deals with, does not (voluntarily) co-operate with law-enforcement. Of course, if they get a court order, they will have to, but to do date they've never been asked for DNA data and haven't had to give out any personal data requested: https://www.23andme.com/transparency-report/
23andMe also does not allow comparison of samples tested outside 23andMe against their own database, the same goes for AncestryDNA. The only reason the GSK case was solved was because those people had purposefully transferred their DNA data into GEDMatch, whose technology and terms of service specifically allowed for matching against this sort of data.
It's alleged that many users of GEDMatch had not read or understood the Term of Service (likely) but others had uploaded their DNA data into GEDMatch specifically for these kinds of purposes. It remains a controversial topic in DNA testing circles not the least because it can implicate distant relatives, but to date merely testing at 23andMe or AncestryDNA hasn't caused anybody to become "police informant", they've had to take complicated actions where they're warned of this sort of possibility every step along the way (Or allowed somebody else to do it for them) to participate in law enforcement DNA searches.
On the other hand, in most of the world USA included law enforcement can legally collect DNA samples from pretty much everybody and construct their own, private DNA database. The law enforcement DNA databases even currently dwarf 23andMe's database in size. The only reason consumer DNA tests were useful in GSK case were because the culprit was beyond suspicion due to being an ex cop and had never had his DNA taken by law enforcement.
But anyway, the short answer is that no, 23andMe does not "deal" with law enforcement unless forced to, which they've never yet been.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What happens? (Score:3, Funny)
Some white supremacists discover they are not quite _that_ white.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Elizabeth Warren finds out she's not _that_ Indian.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: What happens? (Score:4, Funny)
"Donald Trump is very likely more "Indian" than she is."
No, his granddad was a whorehouse owner in Klondike, not an Indian.
Re: (Score:2)
"Elizabeth Warren was at most 3% Native American which corresponds to a great-great-great grandparent. This doesn't match her story."
So her granny missed a 'great' when telling her the story?
The bitch!
Re: (Score:2)
Elizabeth Warren was at most 3% Native American which corresponds to a great-great-great grandparent.
From what I read, that was the "at most" value, and that the probable range was 1/64th to 1/1024th, with 1/512th being most likely.
Re: (Score:2)
"Donald Trump should take the test and find out if he has a higher percentage. If he does, he should then claim to have discovered himself to be genderfluid (the left says you can't question it!), and is now the first minority woman to become president."
He has bigger tits than Elisabeth Warren anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
"He has bigger tits than Elisabeth Warren anyway."
And a much wider ass
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What happens? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I got the opposite results of what many white supremacists nutcases are getting, according to 23andMe I'm 100.0% white European (my family were peasant stock from central European going back forever). I actually wanted to have some interesting mixed blood, but it's just completely boring central European monoculture. Maybe I should sell my DNA to the mixed-race white supremacists...
Wow dude. I hope you are trying to crack wise or something. Otherwise... Yikes.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, come on. He was clearly not serious about selling his dna to white supremacists. If you think otherwise... Yikes.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm defined by who I am, not whether my great-great-great grandfather was a different race to my great-great-great grandmother.
For any white supremacists wanting to cover up the fact that their great-grandmother's name was actually Leshaniqua and not Mary as claimed, please remit $1,000 to pure_aryan_dnatest_results@paypal.com.
I'm actually surprised no-one's done this yet. You can buy clean urine test results to cover up doping, I'm sure there'd be a good market for "pure" DNA test results to cover up ance
Re: (Score:2)
"it's just completely boring central European monoculture. Maybe I should sell my DNA to the mixed-race white supremacists"
Better idea would be to challenge for leadership of Stormfront or some such based on ancestral purity.
Or go after Steve King's Congressional seat
The ones I like (Score:2, Insightful)
That was due to 23andme faking results (Score:5, Informative)
In case you have forgotten, last year there was a big scandal about 23andme employees adding african ancestry to test results to "screw with the racists": http://www.cracked.com/persona... [cracked.com]
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Which leads to question that I never saw asked in the reporting of this story: How did the 23&me staff know about the racist attitudes of their customers?
Re:That was due to 23andme faking results (Score:5, Funny)
I tried to use my white privilege at Costco but they wouldn't give me any discount.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Even your own link doesn't claim that (Score:3)
The article you linked to says that in two instances, when those people stated they wanted to make sure they didn't have any "n*gger* blood", 23andme truthfully told them that their level of African ancestory was âless than 1%".
They said they did it to those two racists, and their statement was true.
Re: (Score:2)
Makes you wonder if the same is not true of "less than 1% native american" reported to Senator Warren.
Re: (Score:2)
... when in fact their ancestry was 100% African. Everyone's ancestry is 100% African. The human species originated in Africa (along with the ancestors of Homo sapiens Neanderthalensis and Homo sapiens Denisovensis, to dispose of those few percent of possible argument). If those white supremacists don't like that, then they're probably going to be upset by the news that they are fish - as seen from the perspective of a shar
Re: (Score:2)
That is of course the most hilarious thing about racism. All Americans are all African-Americans if you go back far enough!
Re: (Score:2)
In fact, I think we should start reporting DNA test results as "time that your ancestors moved out of Africa". Just to mess with the racists of all persuasions!
Re:The ones I like (Score:5, Interesting)
It's been a bit of a problem in their community since a sizable chunk of their leadership's been forced out by it.
Who has been forced out? Do you have a citation?
According to PBS [pbs.org], alt-right groups do not cast out people with "non-white" DNA. They instead question the validity of the results, and there are conspiracy theories that the DNA labs are telling many people that their DNA is "mixed" to push their liberal agenda that "we are all the same".
Also, they may not be as bigoted as you think. The founder of the Aryan Brotherhood [wikipedia.org] is a Jew.
Disclaimer: I am white, but my wife and kids are not.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
The founder of the Aryan Brotherhood [wikipedia.org] is a Jew.
His last name comes from a step-father his mother named when he was a kid, and he seems to make a pretty big deal about insisting who his biological father is. Considering he tells stories of getting beaten up in school by kids who thought he was Jewish when he was not, it shouldn't be surprising how that influenced his development and why not being Jewish is an important part of his identity...
Re: (Score:2)
I said, "white supremacist". OTOH it says something about the alt-right that when you mention white supremacists folks think of the two together...
What does it says? Except that oft-repeat slurs stick.
Re: (Score:3)
are all the white supremacists finding out they're made up of 30-40% some kind of dark skinned folks they've decided to hate.
We're 99% chimp, more like 0.3-0.4% the "dark skinned folks".
Re: (Score:2)
Given the questionable accuracy and the ability of technicians to "tune" the test results, it could just be 23andMe trolling those people. Which may be a moral requirement to do to them.
Re: (Score:2)
It should be. Those idiots deserve it not only for being dumbfuck racists, but for treating the Fisher-Price Babby's First Ethnicity Test results with such confidence. Either factor alone would be enough to warrant a sound trolling.
Interestingly the white supremacist...community (centipede hive?) has responded to the fact that they're not "Aryan" Ubermensch by shifting to a "well as long as you're white-ish and support white nationalism" standard for membership.
Ops, you're a bastard or you child isn't! (Score:1, Insightful)
1/3 of us are Bastards.
This sample shows 30%, near 1/3 of children&men are victimized by Parental Fraud.
https://medium.com/@jimpreston... [medium.com]
Motherhood is sampling of all women's morals. 1/3 women will actively live life-destroying (to 'loved' husbands/lovers & their children) lies,the rest lie to cover for them.
Enjoy considering the #BelieveWomen !
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
You do have to keep in mind that 104% of statistics are made up.
Re:Ops, you're a bastard or you child isn't! (Score:5, Informative)
30% of paternity tests, not 30% of paternity tests done for a random selection of children ...
Re:Ops, you're a bastard or you child isn't! (Score:5, Informative)
30% of paternity tests, not 30% of paternity tests done for a random selection of children ...
Yes. They have done studies on "incidentally" taken genetic tests like looking for compatible donors and in the population as a whole it's probably somewhere between 0.5-3%. This is largely consistent with anonymous surveys indicating about 2% of women got pregnant at a time they had multiple sexual partners, some of which would have the "right" dad. It's not one in a million odds but that 30% figure is a myth that never dies.
Re: (Score:2)
A fair amount of infidelity is to be expected. Where reproduction is concerned, we're merely acting in the best interest of our genes. Because it's very limited how many children a woman can raise, their genetic goal is to (a) obtain help raising children to the best possible level, and to (b) pair the genes with the best possible male genes. This encourages women to infidelity with more successful males than their partners, as long as it isn't found out.
That this is fairly common shouldn't surprise anyo
Re: (Score:2)
Then I guess that once the infidelity is revealed, said cuckolded male should not not have to pay alimony after kicking the said bitch out.
But the courts think otherwise unfortunetely. Ah yes the the great patriarcal system.
A countermeasure from our genes' point of view is keeping the women confined so they won't see other males, especially not high status males. That's basis for the patriarchal system.
And when that fails, infanticide.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure then that you've never had the feeling that someone was "like a son" to you. Biology isn't all there is to being a parent.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure then that you've never had the feeling that someone was "like a son" to you. Biology isn't all there is to being a parent.
That is biology. The drive to be a father figure to children that may not be yours is a response to the female tricks of hidden ovulation and infidelity. When the males can't know for sure whether the children are theirs (or children of male relatives that share a large percentage of one's genes), the best survival tactic from the genes' point of view is to err on the side of caution and raise as many nearby children as one has resources for.
Even if you know the children aren't yours, your genes don't, so
Re: (Score:2)
And then he concludes that it somehow is the biggest reason birth rates are falling across the Western world?
You're as gullible as shit.
Surprising? (Score:1)
If a dad took the test only to find out whether his child was his or not, then it means that he was suspicious to begin with, so why is the DNA test result surprising?
Re: (Score:2)
I guess it's easier to be shocked by test results than to acknowledge your own suspicions.
Re: (Score:2)
If a dad took the test only to find out whether his child was his or not
Where do you get this if from? How do you know he didn't take the test for other reasons, and found out something he wasn't expecting?
At any rate, I won't take any genome test until there is a test facility that (a) will anonymize submissions and (b) will destroy all genetic materials and results after providing the results. Paying extra for the two is fine.
They do make errors (Score:5, Interesting)
I feel really sorry for people whose lives might be turned upside down by an erroneous test result, because they believe a company which is trying to preserve the marketability of their product by insisting they can't make mistakes. Given that 23andMe claims 5 million users [wikipedia.org], even a 99.99% accuracy rate means 500 customers were given erroneous results.
Re: (Score:2)
But the company insisted they were accurate and that they never made mistakes.
Bullcrap. All of these companies have huge disclaimers about the accuracy of their results all over their websites and on the results you receive. None of them say they "never make mistakes."
Re: (Score:2)
Just because they put disclaimers doesn't mean that person-to-person customer service can't then make questionable claims.
You must be really gullible if you think companies only say what's on their disclaimers.
Re: (Score:2)
I think people put too much faith in these low-budget companies like 23 & Me. Whether it's contaminated samples, or claiming to analyze all sorts of DNA while actually only looking at mitochondrial results... their results shouldn't be considered definitive.
Retest, it'll pay for itself. (Score:3)
If you really think an error, submit another sample, under a false name if you have to. I saw a journalist submit 2 doggy DAN samples to the same company, along with the (required) photo of the animal. The results for second sample he submitted (with the false photo) came back totally different, and matching the photo, not the original DNA "results." $180 bucks for the two samples gave him a notable news story.
Re: They do make errors (Score:2)
All tests have a margin of error, and none have 100% accuracy. That's just the nature of testing. That is why, if someone gets a surprising result, the best course of action is to perform another, independent test, to further minimize the error. So, if a dna test tells you a child is not yours, before you take drastic action, order a paternity test from an independent company.
That said, DNA testing companies will of course have to deal with this problem because there will always be a percentage of children
Re: (Score:2)
That "10% rate" is a widely circulated urban legend, or zombie statistic.
Real studies in western countries show around 1-2% .
Though 10% has been seen in studies from Mexico, and blacks in Detroit.
https://isogg.org/wiki/Non-pat... [isogg.org]
http://insidestory.org.au/the-... [insidestory.org.au]
Genetics are weird - that may be true about you (Score:2)
My sister had my dad tested since although we're stereotypically Asian, our family's eyes are slightly rounder. She thought we might have a European ancestor somewhere in our genealogy. The test results came back 50% Hungarian, 40% Scandinavian. The biggest Asian component was 0.6% Japanese. Our best guess is the sample was contaminated, or they accidentally swapped with someone else's sample. But the company insisted they were accurate and that they never made mistakes.
You ever heard of Chang and Eng Bunker? They died in 1874. They are where the term "Siamese twins" comes from. Look them up on Wikipedia if you don't know about them. They lived in North Carolina and married a couple of white ladies. Some of their descendants still look Asian almost 150 years later. Most don't. But some do look very Asian. And that's despite years of breeding with white people. I suppose it could really be true what the genetic test said based on that.
Wine? (Score:5, Funny)
If experience has taught me anything it's that to decompress something you usually need pkunzip.
Re: (Score:2)
We're old, not obsolete.
Determining your own blood type (Score:2)
Been tested by three independent companies (Score:2)
If they're faking, damn they're good. Identical results on all markers checked by more than one group.
23and42 (Score:2)
Nice ad for 23andme - not sure what else it is.
The only DNA I want to be reading about is Douglas Adams.
Which would give us 42andme - much better.
When your sister... isn't. (Score:4, Insightful)
I know someone who found out their "sister" was actually their mother. It took some time to work out what was going on, but it turned out her biological father raped his daughter long ago, got her pregnant and made her agree to hide it. The victim admitted to this when confronted by her sister/daughter with the genetic test results.
The family is quite freaked out. The old guy is dead but everyone is kind of wrecked right now. There's worse things than finding out your spouse cheated on you. Much worse things.
Re: (Score:2)
Instead of moping about it, they could just decide to move on with their lives. Nothing material had changed and nothing needs to change.
Even if it turns out my mother is actually my granddaughter, I would still treat her the exact same way (aside from questioning her about the time machine perhaps).
Reliable (Score:2)
anonymous (Score:2)
Re: Isn't this the same company (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Fraud. Exactly the grounds on which he should also be suing her for damages to cover for any legally mandated monetary award against him to pay for the child, plus whatever damages he feels are appropriate.
Re:SO what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe people don't like being lied to. It's not necessarily about the child. Having a child is a big step, and a responsibility that most men take seriously. Is it too much to ask that one doesn't lie to a man about the paternity of their child?
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe people don't like being lied to. It's not necessarily about the child. Having a child is a big step, and a responsibility that most men take seriously.
And in some cases, very begrudgingly. Like if you felt this was a colossal fuck-up, but it's your kid so suck it up and be a dad, completely rewrite your plan for life... only to learn you're not actually the dad. Yeah, I can see how that would send someone in a 11/10 rage. I mean it's different if you were totally okay with starting a family and it's the child you wanted but turned out not to be yours. I'd really like to know if there are some statistics on that, like in what percentage of pregnancies was
Re: (Score:2)
What if your kid comes to you as a teenager and just really wants to know the their ancestry. Dad says sure. Results come back and gee, looks like mom cheated and got pregnant. If dad doesn't already know about this, that's a HUGE big deal. I mean, if the wife lied about that, who knows WHAT she is capable of.
Has nothing to do with the daughter really and dad doesn't love daughter any less. Obviously the child is innocent. BBC literally just did a long write up on this topic. Was a decent read but don't be
Re: SO what? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In many places a cheating woman is killed or at least a pariah while a cheating man is celebrated. In many other places a man can have as many wives as he want, including temporary wives for some sex, while a woman walking outside by herself (even if not exposing any skin which of course is a great crime) can be killed. :(
Yes women have it easy and the poor men takes all the blame.
Même chose pour moi (Score:3)
Mon test d'ADN confirme que je suis 97% Français et 3% Amérindien. Et pourtant, je ne parle pas un seul mot de la langue française.
Quelles foutaises, ces tests d'ADN!
Re: (Score:2)
Well, that is the proof that nurture trumps nature.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you have a link for this? Google turns up nothing about 23andMe distorting their results in this manner.
Re: (Score:3)
Ah, never mind. I found it. It's an alt-right conspiracy theory, to explain why some people who thought they were Arian turned out not to be.
Re: (Score:2)
Right, and no-one thought to screenshot or archive the page, no news articles were written about it, all evidence was effectively and completely scrubbed from the internet.
Re: (Score:2)
Citation needed.
Re: Science? (Score:2)
So far, not a single person has offered a credible link to that claim, and you've offered no link at all.
Urban legands and conspiracy theories don't qualify as proof.
Re: (Score:2)
So where are the statements? If you know where they are why not post a link to them, or are we to go to stormfront.org to see an "archived" statement?
Re: (Score:2)
Probably the same kind of weird events that happened with Clayton Bigsby.
Not really. 99% European. 8 generations, a Mexican (Score:4, Informative)
She claimed to be native American, and specifically Cherokee.
The test results show that over 99% of her DNA is European. In other words, she's about as white as they come. Very close to the average UK citizen.
The results further indicate that most likely, she had a single great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparent from South America, Central America, or North America.
So 6-10 generations back, one Mexican or whatever. That hardly supports her long-held claim "I'm Cherokee". Notably, after the results, the tribe made it a point to come out and say that as far as they are concerned, she's definitely not Cherokee.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
She claimed to be native American, and specifically Cherokee.
Incorrect. Elizabeth Warren said that according to family lore, she has a Cherokee ancestor.
The test results show that over 99% of her DNA is European. In other words, she's about as white as they come.
Actually, no it proved that the family lore was legit and she is part Cherokee. Not a lot but some which was the claim all along.
Notably, after the results, the tribe made it a point to come out and say that as far as they are concerned, she's definitely not Cherokee.
She didn't claim to be part of the tribe. Also, they only seemed to be upset after the results were in, not when Individual-1 was making a big deal about it.
References were Mexico, Peru and Colombia (Score:2)
The reference DNA they used for American native is people from Mexico, Peru and Colombia. That's native to the Americas (Western hemisphere), not Native American.
The test shows that most likely, one of her 256 great^8 grandparents were from the Western Hemisphere.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
She then said she was Cherokee when applying to things. Do you not see how that is a problem?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe those places should've hired on merit. They can't lie about their race if you don't ask!
Re: (Score:2)
Very close to the average UK citizen.
Isn't the average UK citizen nowadays 7% Asian or something like that?
Isn't more like 30% Pakistani? That's what I've heard from some *white* friends
Re: (Score:2)
I think it's a pretty big assumption to assume we actually like our side's politicians. We just hate/fear theirs even more. (feel free to assume/assign whichever side you prefer to there, it works either way)
Think of it like one of those torture porn Saw type movies. You're being forced to make a choice between having your genitals ripped off with a rusty wire wheel, or your teeth ground out on a stone mill wheel. Or you can vote third party and drill your kneecaps, then get one of the first two options cho
Re: (Score:2)
But then she wouldn't be an idiot, and we would be living in a different reality.
It's all Warren's fault we're living in a reality where Trump has shown us for decades exactly the kind of person he is and still became President
Re: (Score:3)
You fail.
Re: (Score:2)
It'a obvious from the face Chelsea is Bill's daughter. The real question is does Hillary know Chelsea is not her daughter?