Monarch Butterfly Populations In the West Are Down an Order of Magnitude (qz.com) 100
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Quartz: Far fewer [monarch butterflies] were heading south this year, and those that have arrived did so a month late, according to Xeres, a non-profit conservation group for invertebrates. One researcher said it was the fewest monarch butterflies in central California in 46 years. Surveyors at 97 sites found only 20,456 monarchs compared to 148,000 at the same sites last year, an 86% decline. It's possible more insects will make the journey late this year, says Xeres, but that now seems unlikely. The minimum population size before the species experiences "migration collapse" is unknown, but a 2017 modeling paper in Biological Conservation (pdf) found that 30,000 butterflies adult butterflies are probably the smallest viable population. Without this critical mass, there aren't enough insects in the western monarch population to continue one of the world's most remarkable lifecycles.
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He had sex with a woman?
*mouth-breathe*
Like, a real woman?
*mouth-breathe*
He's my hero!
Are we discussing this right? Also, Citation Needed.
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Stories of this kind from the 70s and 80s don't count. In those days, women wanted sex too.
Do you have a garden? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why not set aside a small percentage for wild grasses, wild flowers and specifically for the Monarchs: milkweed
Re:Do you have a garden? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not set aside a small percentage for wild grasses, wild flowers
I did this and got a citation from the city requiring me to cut down the weeds.
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Yep, Milkweed is considered a noxious weed.
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According to http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/en... [gov.on.ca] Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec and Minnesota. Seems that it is toxic to livestock.
Does Milkweed even grow in the west? I don't think I've seen it here in BC.
Strangely, there seemed to be an unusual number of monarchs here in SW BC. Usually just see the odd one, this year they seemed to be everywhere in late spring, never saw so many. I don't know if ours migrate or not.
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Strangely, there seemed to be an unusual number of monarchs here in SW BC. Usually just see the odd one, this year they seemed to be everywhere in late spring, never saw so many. I don't know if ours migrate or not.
Those are the ones that usually summer in Pismo Beach. This year, they have gone to Canada in protest of Trump's policy on refugees.
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And milkweed is quite tall.....
Extrene drought (Score:1)
affects lots of species
Fortunately monarch butterflies live in many parts of the world , even NZ
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I posted that because I used to live in New Zealand, so I have seen them myself. And NZ is fairly isolated, There were no mammals there before humans migrated there,
NZ is 1200 miles from Australia, 6000 miles from California and as far as you can get from Spain.
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This was pointed out to me some time back, when I asked a kiwi why it was a separate country instead of being a province (or whatever they're called) of Australia.
In my defence, it doesn't look anywhere near that far on a map.
Re: Extrene drought (Score:2)
The insect population is declining worldwide. I am talking about 70 to 80 percent.
https://www.independent.co.uk/... [independent.co.uk]
I donâ(TM)t think that draught is the reason for a worldwide problem.
Literal butterfly effect. (Score:1)
That's the nicest explanation for why "only 1.5 degrees" matter so much, that I've seen:
In nature, everything is in a stable balance of many dependent cycles, where everything is juuust right. Even for life itself to even exist.
Nudge one of those balances off only a bit too much, and the entire thing goes over the edge and spirals out of control. Taking things with it, that you never thought of.
To me, this is also the best approach, to make sense of "chaotic" behavior. (As in: chaos theory)
Only lossless cyc
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Both monarch butterflies and milkweed can easily stand a 1.5 degree increase in temperature.
That isn't in question. It's whether they can survive the compound effect of the temperature increase. More turbulent hurricanes, changes in rainfall patterns, hot spots and cold spots (that may average to 1.5 degrees, but can still diverge in extremes).
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Yep. They did.
But can they survive an intelligent species waging a war on their food?
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They seem to eat different things depending on location. Saw more Monarchs then ever this year and there's no milkweed here in SW BC.
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Bullshit, this has more to do with urban sprawl. Both monarch butterflies and milkweed can easily stand a 1.5 degree increase in temperature.
Both of those can in isolation, yes, but not if the 1.5 degrees causes more wind, less rain, more rain, earlier summers, or any of a thousand other variables to change.
Things are interlinked, and that's the real point.
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Both of those can in isolation, yes, but not if the 1.5 degrees causes more wind, less rain, more rain, earlier summers, or any of a thousand other variables to change. Things are interlinked, and that's the real point.
In other words, there is no evidence AGW is affected monarch butterflies, but you wish it would affect them, so you say "a thousand variables."
A scientist would say, "OK, what are the variables? Let's quantify them."
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In other words, there is no evidence AGW is affected monarch butterflies
There's also no evidence that it won't.
A scientist would say, "OK, what are the variables? Let's quantify them."
Touche.
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A scientist would say, "OK, what are the variables? Let's quantify them."
I started getting curious actually, and found this study [nih.gov]. It looks like the primary factors are the loss of forest in the winter habitat areas (Mexico, although the butterflies spend the winter in other places, too) and loss of milkweed in the northern areas (as farmers have used more effective herbicides).
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I did some research, too. Milkweed is apparently the only type of plant the caterpillars can eat. No milkweed=no butterflies.
Maybe we need some land dedicated to milkweed.
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Re:Literal butterfly effect. (Score:5, Funny)
To me, this is also the best approach, to make sense of "chaotic" behavior. (As in: chaos theory)
Killing off the butterflies might reduce the number of hurricanes!
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WHOOOSH!
(That was not a hurricane)
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You forget momentum.
Monarch apocalypse (Score:5, Interesting)
30 yrs. living in SoCal, the wildfires in San Diego County began in the 80's where it was first noticed effect on Monarch migration. Each February Point Loma which stuck out into the sea would afford the Monarch a nutritious waypoint on their migration northward. The surrounding canyon's wild milkweed air would flow for days in a stream of butterflies. With successive wildfires the drop in Monarch sightings transitioned official narrative from migration change to population tragedy to loss of food source.
Today the coastal flyway is host to few Monarchs and the loss for those hoping for a return defies the Monarch apocalypse. Now, living NoCal, the Monarchs flew through the Bay Area's Marin wetlands on their way south this October. It was a happy reminder however brief, one afternoon, that they aren't dead - yet.
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Hint: words don't mean the same after they leave their native language.
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It doesn't "literally" mean "an uncovering," it literally means that the genital covering-skin has been pulled back, or is absent. A very specific uncovering.
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Amazing how humans are so self-preoccupied. Even your post goes on how it would be a loss for fans.
We as a species should go extinct instead.
Urban Sprawl (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason the butterfly population is down is because of urban sprawl in Washington and Oregon destroying their habitat. This is a direct case of cities causing extinction of other species.
Farms, by their very nature, cannot eliminate all weeds, and the milkweed these butterflies need to feed on is plentiful in the countryside, but is considered a noxious weed by urban rules.
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Concrete also gets rid of milkweed.
Texans already knew this (Score:1, Interesting)
Soon it will be (Score:2)
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Probably this reason (Score:5, Interesting)
Some folks have planted milkweed beside the roads near natgas corridors - a lot. The number of Monarchs flitting around last year and this has been impressive. So that bubble of butterflies should be reaching the west in a few years, assuming food sources in the midwest can accomodate them.
Side note: I often take the Cape May - Lewes Ferry, which crosses the Chesapeake bay between New Jersey and Delaware. Monarch butterflies often ride the slipstream behind the ship with us during the late summer and fall.
Re:Probably this reason (Score:4, Informative)
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Interesting. The Law of Unintended Consequences; or, Where Are We Going, and Why am I in this Hand-basket?
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that is not the Chesapeake Bay -- that's the Delaware Bay
Yup - my bad!
new places (Score:2)
witnessing the migration is amazing (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in central Iowa, in a city that has lots of trees and (in the 1980's anyway) had large areas of the city that were not heavily developed and basically had little islands of forrest in the middle of the city. Around 1985, I got to see an incredible sight. The monarch migration passed right through town, specifically stopping to rest at a wooded area not 300 feet from my apartment.
There were lots of older trees there, mainly maples, that stood 70-100ft tall, and they were dripping with butterflies. Every leaf had several butterflies on it, all of them slowly flexing their wings, making the entire tree look like it was breathing, in a shimmering silver-brown color. There was no green to be seen anywhere in the canopy, everything was covered with monarchs. The branches were even getting visibly weighed down from weight of butterflies, some branches that normally were ten feet off the ground were within hand's reach. You could reach up and slowly brush your hand through a living curtain of butterflies. It was amazing!
This went on for about three days. There were monarchs flying lazily around all over the place, and if you walked slowly though the area, you'd have several of them landing on you as you walked or stopped to stare at them. Monarchs are very large butterflies too. I wouldn't even want to attempt to count how many there were. I did't own a camera back then, but I wish I did. I would have taken so many pictures. But back then I was pretty young, and didn't recognize that this was a sight I would probably never get to see again, so all I have of it are the memories of the trees filled with butterflies.
We had a fair amount of "ditch weed" (milkweek) in the area, especially in the ditches along the gravel roads outside town. I used to go to the empty lots where there was still a lot of "prairie" type land between the neighborhoods, where milkweed could be plentiful, and see if I could find the vibrantly colored monarch caterpillars. They're striped yellow, white, and black. Sometimes if I found one I'd take it home along with some milkweed, and raise it. I'd have to go back and pick more milkweed from time to time. Then it would stop eating and climb to a stick in the jar and make a chrysalis and I'd have to wait a month or so for it to hatch and fly away. it started out a very interesting shape, colored green to match the milkweed, but with a ring of gold (like jewelwry gold) spots around the top crown area, like someone had painted drops of gold paint in a halo around the top of it (like https://naturetime.files.wordp... [wordpress.com]) A week or so before it hatched, the chrysalis would become transparent, and you could see the gold wings folded up inside, sometimes moving a little.
Nowadays, there are still quite a few trees in town, most yards have a tree, but there are very few vacant grass lots or clumps of trees inside town. Outside town, it's all farmland now, so again not much in the way of woods. But still lots of milkweed in the ditches around town, and I do see a monarch from time to time, but they're pretty rare. I've been considering planting some milkweed in my front yard now, to see if I can attract some monarchs. We don't really consider it a problem weed here in town. The plants are pretty solitary and don't spread fast like some other "weed" do. They have a somewhat attractive large flower also. Not something you want to eat though, they produce a large volume of a very thick white milky sap if you break off a leaf. Monarch caterpillars are one of the few insects that can eat them, and they retain the toxin as butterflies also, which is why the caterpillars and adults are so brightly colored - they're a toxic meal for most birds.
I miss those days!
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I wonder if you have native milkweed there. In SoCal I probably have tropical. I just pulled up a few yesterday, having independently decided not to let them grow during winter. Karma, man, thx for the post.
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I had a similar experience growing up next to a eucalyptus grove right in the middle of the migration path. In the morning the trees would come alive as tens of thousands of butterflies began beating their wing to wake up, then as the sun's rays hit they would disperse into the air and fill the grove with twirling, beating butterflies. The weaker ones would be dead and dying on the ground and others would float all around from the canopy to the floor--it's impossible to convey the experience in words but
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Milkweed Garden. (Score:1)
They're out East (Score:2)
I've seen 2-3 monarchs most years- mostly a curiosity. This year there were a few dozen around - order of magnitude checks out. Northern New England.