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Space Sun Microsystems Science

Nearby Star Is Sun's Long-Lost Sibling (syfy.com) 95

The Bad Astronomer writes: A nearby star, HD 186302, was almost certainly born from the same cloud of gas the Sun was 4.6 billion years ago. Astronomers have found it has an almost identical chemical composition as the Sun, is on a similar orbit around the Milky Way, and has the same age (within uncertainties). Interestingly, it's only 184 light years away, implying statistically many more such stars are waiting to be discovered.
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Nearby Star Is Sun's Long-Lost Sibling

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  • Many stars are closer, e.g. alpha centauri 21 (4.3 ly). Wouldn't be logical to find (/search) similar stars closer than 184 ly?
    • by tonique ( 1176513 ) on Thursday November 22, 2018 @02:37AM (#57683474)
      Perhaps, but not necessarily. In 4.5 billion years since its formation, the Sun and the solar system have gone round the Galaxy many times. There has been plenty of time for the stars formed at the same time and place to drift apart.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 22, 2018 @02:55AM (#57683496)

        About 19 times, if you want to call that "many". Your actual point remains valid though, 4.6 billion years is plenty of time to drift a couple hundred light years.

        • by Anonymous Coward

          More specifically, we're about 26,490 ly from the center of the milky way, so over (I calculate) 20 orbits we've traveled ~3.3 million ly in 4.6 billion years around the center of the Milky Way. So, a shift of 186 ly is ~0.006% over 4.6 billion years*. As the article states, though, with an average distribution of ~1,000 stars on a 166,441 ly orbit you'd expect 166 ly between stars (and hence a shift of ~50% at the extreme). It's little wonder factoring in the many other gas clouds form star clusters of

          • by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 ) on Thursday November 22, 2018 @09:46AM (#57684362)

            TL;DR

            Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space. - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

          • I make that about 7000 miles/ year on average dispersion velocity. I've had cars that travel faster than that. Actually, I don't think I've had a car which didn't travel faster than that, on average, over a year.
      • by meglon ( 1001833 )
        You also have that star forming clouds/regions can be quite large from the get go. The Orion Molecular Cloud Complex is hundreds of light years in diameter, so depending on the initial size of our formation cloud, there might have been no drift at all needed for their current positioning.
      • the Sun and the solar system have gone round the Galaxy many times. There has been plenty of time for the stars formed at the same time and place to drift apart.

        Sort of? This is **REALLY** beyond my pay grade. But I think the situation may be that small differences in the velocity vectors of stars formed close together cause the stars to diverge as the stars move around the galactic center until their mutual distance reaches a maximum at a point (sort of) opposite their starting points relative to the gal

        • I'm no expert of stellar movements either.But it is my understanding that it's quite like you described: small differences in velocity vectors mean the stars' paths diverge. Sensitivity to initial conditions, aka. deterministic chaos.
      • There has been plenty of time for the stars formed at the same time and place to drift apart.

        Maybe they should sign up for a social media account. It would allow them to get closer again.

    • Sure. But if this one has a watery planet our plants can probably grow there if life hasn't already evolved on it.

      As far as we know we can't live without our plants.

      • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

        Water is probably the most common molecule in the universe. Finding planets with water is easy. Finding one without any toxic chemical that plants can't stand is much harder.

        • by sg_oneill ( 159032 ) on Thursday November 22, 2018 @08:43AM (#57684166)

          I think in general evolution takes care of the toxic chemical part. Theres not a lot life can't adapt to, given time. Hell earth prior to life would have been toxic as hell to us. But given a bunch of billions of years, all the shitty stuff has been broken up and repurposed, and what can't be, adapted to and shuffled around.

          The more pertient issues I suspect are geography, radiation and heat, and a good old dose of random luck.

        • Water is probably the most common molecule in the universe. Finding planets with water is easy. Finding one without any toxic chemical that plants can't stand is much harder.

          Well, apart from the relative abundance of H2O vrs H2..... Finding planets with water is fairly easy, but finding planets with abundant LIQUID surface water, that seems to be quite a bit more difficult.

          Earth is pretty unique among planets. Possibly one of a kind, perhaps not. But it's clear that rocky wet planets which are not too hot, not too cold and have the right amount of gravity, atmosphere etc, are not in every solar system.

          • by CrimsonAvenger ( 580665 ) on Thursday November 22, 2018 @09:29AM (#57684296)

            Earth is pretty unique among planets.

            As opposed to ugly unique? Normally, "unique" does not require modifiers other than "nearly" - "nearly unique" might make sense. But not "pretty unique".

            Also, are you using a sample size of one solar system for your "pretty unique" analysis? If you are, you might want to consider the evidence that Mars had liquid water (and may still, underground), and several moons have liquid water under the surface. Hardly unique, even in this solar system....

            • So what you're saying is that Earth's properties are a pretty big coincidence...

            • So we get the grammar police AND a "you are dumb" argument together?

              My point is that planets like Earth are rare, at least as far as we can tell by observing our galactic neighborhood. There are specific characteristics which are unusual, including the amount of water, the size of our moon, the magnetic field strength, our distance to our star in relation to it's size, and even the size of the planet are all keys in developing and sustaining life as we know it.

              How rare is this? We simply do not know for s

              • by dryeo ( 100693 )

                Besides all you mention, the fact that the Earth seems to have been quite stable over 4.5 billion years is likely a rarity. Based on our sample size of one, it seems to take billions of years for complex life to evolve and the Earth has remained mostly at temperatures etc that allow liquid water on the surface, even as the Sun has increased its output by 25% or so. The Sun has also stayed in the habitable zone of the galaxy for the same time.
                The rare Earth hypothesis, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

            • You : Mars had liquid water (and may still, underground), and several moons have liquid water under the surface

              These are

              GP : planets with abundant LIQUID surface water

              ??

              There is a problem of coverage here. Out of the relatively small areas of the sky surveyed, to a quite shallow depth of survey, with major biases towards non-Sun-like stellar systems in the search methods, we have not found an Earth-a-like.

              But we have found a number of somewhat similar systems.

              And there are literally billions of un-surve

          • You are making the same argument that creationists make when they claim that the anthropic principle is proof of divine intervention. What’s really happening is that we are naturally selected for the checmical makeup of our planet.

            • by dryeo ( 100693 )

              The Earth has also been remarkably stable over its lifetime, having liquid water on the surface for most of its history apparently. Evolution seems slow and takes time.

  • What happened 4.6 billion years ago?

    • We were clouds and dust bunnies, son. All the interstellar dust just lumped together around a swirl of cloud that got squished a bit from a star having a hiccup which smooshed the dust grains together. That's what they mean we're made of star stuff. It's actually dust bunnies. Rocks come later.

      • by Anonymous Coward

        That's what they mean we're made of star stuff. It's actually dust bunnies.

        With those dust bunnies being the remnants of previous stars who have ran their lifecycle and went nova or something, scattering heavier elements around.

        There are elements in our body which could only exist because they were created in earlier stars.

        I just wish the drooling idiots who think the world was 6000 years old would understand that, if their god exists, he created a universe far more vast and amazing than their little pea br

        • by Anonymous Coward

          The drooling idiots tend to be much more pleasant to be around then the condescending atheists. Your post is an excellent example of why.

          • The drooling idiots tend to be much more pleasant to be around then the condescending atheists.

            Have you tried doing the condescending atheists first?

        • Fortunately, the young Earth creationists are a tiny fraction of believers. The rest of us are in wonder at the vast and amazing universe that God created.

    • Re:4.6 billion (Score:4, Informative)

      by RockDoctor ( 15477 ) on Thursday November 22, 2018 @06:01PM (#57686030) Journal

      What happened 4.6 billion years ago?

      About the same as 4 billion years ago, and 5 billion years ago - every year around 3 solar masses of interstellar medium were turned into stars, most of which were red dwarfs (and still are) though a couple of times a decade a star with a sun-like mass gets made. More rarely, larger stars would get formed.

      TFA has no implication that anything particularly unusual was happening then. At this moment, the portion of the Milky Way visible to us (maybe one tenth of it), has several hundred open clusters of the form which they are suggesting the Sun and HD186302 once shared.

  • Sedate (Score:5, Funny)

    by nagora ( 177841 ) on Thursday November 22, 2018 @06:46AM (#57683910)

    I make that about 27mph on average, so this star could move around town without getting a speeding ticket. Not least because it would obliterate the town and the whole planet.

  • by petes_PoV ( 912422 ) on Thursday November 22, 2018 @07:36AM (#57684004)
    ... on star HD 186302 an almost identical news report has been published.
  • More stars to be discovered? We can see distant galaxies. What stars nearby are waiting to be discovered?
  • Sun logo (Score:5, Insightful)

    by _merlin ( 160982 ) on Thursday November 22, 2018 @08:59AM (#57684204) Homepage Journal

    What the hell - now we get the Sun (as in the company that began as Stanford University Network) logo on stories about Sol? That's even worse than the DEC logo on stories about "digital" things. It isn't even that long ago that Sun was an independent company - surely the editors have memories longer than a decade?

    • Re:Sun logo (Score:4, Interesting)

      by DontBeAMoran ( 4843879 ) on Thursday November 22, 2018 @09:52AM (#57684378)

      Indeed, both instances are messed-up. I mean, wrong logos attached to stories? Extremely easy-to-spot duplicate stories?

      The more of these problems pop up, the more I think there's no one left at the wheel and everything is script-driven around here.

      • Click on the Sun Microsystems logo and brings up a list of articles including "Ford Patents a Way To Remove 'New Car Smell'" and "Amazon Warehouse Collapse in Baltimore Leaves Two Dead". Which don't even have the Sun logo on them, they just happen to contain the word 'sun' buried in the text.

        It's not as if humans have a better track record at /. though. Machine editors could never foul up as badly, it'd be too easy for a script to prevent dupes and remember to include story links and so forth.

      • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        They are trolling you, and it worked. Well done, Slashdot!

  • Does it also have an Earth sibling [wikipedia.org], too?

  • What does it take to upgrade this to the solar system's twin? Or will these solar-twin systems forever remain half sisters?

  • It's in the constellation of Norma,

    Name the star Abby, then we have Abby Norma.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell

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