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What Cardiologists Think About the Apple Watch's Heart-Tracking Feature (sfgate.com) 90

Posted by BeauHD from the pros-and-cons dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from SFGate: The newest Apple Watch can now flag potential problems with your heartbeat -- a feature that's been cleared by the Food and Drug Administration and that Apple is marking as a major achievement. But some doctors said that including heart-monitoring tools in such a popular consumer product could prompt unnecessary anxiety and medical visits. Physicians say the watch could be good for patients who have irregular heart rhythms but may not realize it. Some people who have atrial fibrillation, the condition for which the watch is screening, don't always have noticeable symptoms. In an ideal situation, someone who doesn't know they have a problem could get a warning from their watch and take that data to their doctor.

But there is also concern that widespread use of electrocardiograms without an equally broad education initiative could burden an already taxed health-care system. Heart rhythms naturally vary, meaning that it's likely that Apple Watch or any heart monitor could signal a problem when there isn't one -- and send someone running to the doctor for no reason. "People are scared; their heart scares them," John Mandrola, a cardiologist at Baptist Health in Louisville, said. "That leads to more interaction with the health-care system." An extra visit to your doctor may not sound like a bad thing, but Mandrola said it would potentially lead to another round of tests or even unnecessary treatment if there are other signs that can be misinterpreted. And doctors might wind up facing a crowd of anxious Apple Watch users getting false signals -- something physicians have already had to deal with as fitness trackers that monitor heart rates have become popular.
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What Cardiologists Think About the Apple Watch's Heart-Tracking Feature More

What Cardiologists Think About the Apple Watch's Heart-Tracking Feature

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  • Doctor visits maybe harmful? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by khchung ( 462899 ) on Friday September 14, 2018 @07:16PM (#57317204) Journal

    it would potentially lead to another round of tests or even unnecessary treatment if there are other signs that can be misinterpreted.

    The same could be said for any visit to any doctor for any reason, so that means any visit to the doctor may be harmful?

    Sound like a problem with American doctors than with anything else.

    • Yeah, it struck me as an odd comment. I mean, suppose 9 in 10 alerts are false positives (which I'd assume is an absurdly high number). The cost for a false positive in this sort of situation is relatively low: patients go in, get some simple tests, confirm they're fine, and go home. There are no ongoing costs to the patient or the system.

      But what about that 1 in 10 who isn't a false positive? If we assume that they wouldn't have otherwise had their heart problems noticed until years later after the symptom

      • Re: Doctor visits maybe harmful? (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Yeah but all those false positives are clogging up the doctors office, thatâ(TM)s were the problem is people that need the care canâ(TM)t get in because weâ(TM)ve made healthcare on the us artificially unavailable

        • Yeah but all those false positives are clogging up the doctors office, thatâ(TM)s were the problem is

          No, the problem is that people who didn't catch the problem early enough are clogging up the office on an ongoing, continual, significant basis. False positives would be a drastic improvement to that situation if they helped reduce the ongoing appointments.

    • Follow the trail of money to the overly expensive tests done on relatively inexpensive machines, funded by your premiums to in$urance companies and your copayment$.

    • Apparently there is no such thing as a 'false positive' in Europe. Maybe you geniuses could show us stupid Americans how you pull that off. Thanks in advance.
  • It seems likely a simple majority of people would rather risk a false positive and an unnecessary visit to the doctor, than have a significant arrhythmia go undetected.

  • But there is also concern that widespread use of electrocardiograms without an equally broad education initiative could burden an already taxed health-care system. Heart rhythms naturally vary, meaning that it's likely that Apple Watch or any heart monitor could signal a problem when there isn't one -- and send someone running to the doctor for no reason.

    Well, and that's a problem when you mandate coverage, set insurance rates, socialize costs, and have third-party payer systems: people don't apply good jud

    • Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)

      by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 )

      Why is that a problem? We (in the US) would have more money for healthcare and education subsidies if we stopped mass-incarceration, enforcement of victimless crimes, and military thuggery in countries we have no business intervening in.

      The US needs MORE access to healthcare, not more rationing via economic means.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by King_TJ ( 85913 )

        Well, let's be realistic here.... The funding going for things like mass incarceration and military exercise in foreign countries won't just get fully redirected to healthcare and education subsidies if you put a stop to those things. It's a powerful "selling point" to get a point across, but government funds often go to one area because of a complex underlying situation. It's not just a general pot that all the money piles up in until they decide how to divvy it up.

        If you believe some of the reports about

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by rworne ( 538610 )

        If you are going to promote your Left Think Platform, you cannot cherry-pick the planks. You need to accept the other planks as well.

        ICE is out and open borders is in.
        All refugees welcome and Amnesty for everyone.
        Strict price controls on pharmaceuticals.
        Progressive taxation on high income individuals - say doctors and specialists.

        Now we will be the world's doctor too - the only barrier is getting here somehow - perhaps the EU will export them?

        How long will this last before it consumes itself and all we hav

        • Congratulations, this is the stupidest post I've read on the internet today. It's a high par to pass but you passed it.

          Your argument is: GP wants single payer healthcare. Some stupid straw man you've invented says that some people who want single payer also want open borders. OMFG GP SI TEH MORAN single healthcare means open borders.

          Your post has everything:

          * reactionary bigotry about anyone who disagrees on any aspect of politics
          * aggresive stupidity
          * entire armies of straw men
          * ignoring that places other

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by rworne ( 538610 )

            So you are telling me the leftist agenda does not promote (sources below are from left-leaning sites, and one centrist site):

            Socialized/single payer medicine [americanprogress.org]
            Open borders [thehill.com]
            Controlling "Big Pharma" [rollcall.com]
            Progressive taxation, especially on the rich [vox.com]

            Because this is what the far left is pushing right now.

            • I have no idea what passes for the "leftist agenda" in your head.

              What I do know is that plenty of countries have single payer healthcare and don't have open borders.

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by rworne ( 538610 )

                I have no idea what passes for the "leftist agenda" in your head.

                Funny because I just posted a bunch of links to it.

                This country does not have open borders, has universal health care, and has an ongoing problem with abuse of the system by foreigners:

                Japan has a socialized medical system where people get insurance through their employers or from the government. It's a really good system as well - top notch medical treatment, safe, effective prescription drugs, and costs (unlike in the U.S.) are much lower.

                T

                • Funny because I just posted a bunch of links to it.

                  Thing is I don't really care whay your idea of the "leftist agenda" is. It's clearly blatantly stupid so precise the details of the stpidity are unimportant.

                  This country does not have open borders, has universal health care

                  WTF? S is the leftist agenda both together or not? Make up your mind.

                  People come in for the express purpose of gaining (or faking) residency, promptly getting expensive medical treatment, and leaving without paying anything into the syst

      • We (in the US) would have more money for healthcare and education subsidies

        We don't need more money for healthcare or education in the US; we are already paying several times as much as countries that are doing better than we are.

        if we stopped mass-incarceration, enforcement of victimless crimes, and military thuggery in countries we have no business intervening in

        I'm all for ending that. Unfortunately, last time I voted for a guy that promised to end some of these government abuses and move money from cron

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

          We're fucked (humans), here in the UK we have an extremely decent guy running the Labour party, it's not in power, he probably won't win, even if he does win there will be endless shitheads causing problems for him and all the media will rail against him as it already has. He nearly won the last election despite the media putting in the boot but too many people let TV and newspapers do their thinking for them. Having an honest politician run the country is not what most people want, they want more money and

          • Having an honest politician run the country is not what most people want, they want more money and they will vote for the best liar who tells them they will get more money. They won't get more money, the richest people will, same as always.

            Corbyn is a self-described socialist. In light of that and the history of socialism, the rest of your comment is profoundly ironic.

            But Americans need object lessons in real-world socialism and fascism again, now that the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany are gone. So go for i

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

              Americans and Brits take socialism to mean different things, in the US socialism seems to mean communism. I'd rather have his style of socialism any day over the dystopian capitalist dog eat dog world that is the US today with it's absurdly expensive health costs, insane prison population etc.

              • Americans and Brits take socialism to mean different things, in the US socialism seems to mean communism.

                I was born in Europe, and unlike you Brits, have first-hand experience with the tender mercies of socialism, democratic and otherwise.

                I'd rather have his style of socialism any day over the dystopian capitalist dog eat dog world that is the US today with it's absurdly expensive health costs, insane prison population etc.

                Ah, yes, the ignorance and anti-Americanism so typical of educated Europeans. As I wa

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

                  US has tens of millions of people in poverty, if telling the truth is anti-American then yes I'm anti-American. US populace is so brain-washed it can't tell fake news from real news. US population is the Turkey who votes for Xmas.

                  • US has tens of millions of people in poverty

                    In 2016, 21.6% (13.4 million) of Brits lived in poverty by UK standards, [wikipedia.org] whereas only 12.7% of Americans did in 2016. [wikipedia.org] The US poverty rate has been below 20% since the early 1960's.

                    But the actual situation is a lot bleaker because "poverty" is measured relative to median income, which is considerably lower in the UK. If measured against US standards, 40% of the UK is low income [pewresearch.org]. On top of that, the US has numerous benefits for people "in poverty" that aren't counte

                    • US has tens of millions of people in poverty

                      In 2016, 21.6% (13.4 million) of Brits lived in poverty by UK standards, [wikipedia.org] whereas only 12.7% of Americans did in 2016. [wikipedia.org]

                      Even ignoring the fact that the US link doesn't have your US number anywhere (you'l have to go to the Census to find that) - you are comparing two different definitions of poverty.

                    • Even ignoring the fact that the US link doesn't have your US number anywhere (you'll have to go to the Census to find that)

                      It's right there in the first figure.

                      you are comparing two different definitions of poverty

                      Quite right. As I pointed out later, according to the US definition of poverty, about 40% of UK citizens live in poverty. Conversely, if you count in kind benefits in the US (which is needed to make it comparable to Europe), the US poverty rate drops even further.

                      So the actual discrepancy between

                    • Even ignoring the fact that the US link doesn't have your US number anywhere (you'll have to go to the Census to find that)

                      It's right there in the first figure.

                      Nope, it says 12.3% right there. You are not making any points.

                      you are comparing two different definitions of poverty

                      Quite right. As I pointed out later, according to the US definition of poverty, about 40% of UK citizens live in poverty.

                      And if you use the UK standard "starting in the 1930s, relative poverty rates have consistently exceeded those of other wealthy nations." So the US loses as do you - oh BTW: Trump is poor.

                    • Nope, it says 12.3% right there. You are not making any points.

                      I gave the number for 2016 (just like UK). Notice how the figure was updated just Saturday?

                      And if you use the UK standard "starting in the 1930s, relative poverty rates have consistently exceeded those of other wealthy nations."

                      You're still confusing absolute and relative poverty, and you obviously don't understand the different ways of measuring even relative poverty.

                      So the US loses as do you

                      If that belief makes your life tolerable, I encourag

              • You mean crony capitalism.

                Without government powers, the things you identified would not happen.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Uberbah ( 647458 )

              In light of that and the history of socialism

              The history of being infinitely better for 95% of the population than capitalism - right up until the government is overthrown by the CIA.

              • The history of being infinitely better for 95% of the population than capitalism - right up until the government is overthrown by the CIA.

                Seriously? The people of the Soviet Union, Cuba, East Germany, Poland, Hungary, all those countries were "infinitely better off" than with capitalism?

                Your level of ignorance isn't just astounding, it is offensive.

          • God no. What we have is a duplictius, anti-semitic arsehole.

            Anti semitic: no he's never said anything anti semitic. However the party under him, with him at the helm takes a strong stance against well founded accusations of antisemitism and a very gentle stance towards the anti-semites. At some point if you keep standing in the way you're part of the problem.
            He's also cut from the same cloth as David Cameron, underneath. Cameron was the kind of arsehole prepared to put party before country which is why he h

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by MrL0G1C ( 867445 )

              Of course he's not anti-semitic, get real, what trash newspapers are you reading? And if you haven't noticed anyone who criticises Israel is immediately dubbed anti-semitic, take that crap with a pinch of salt.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by samkass ( 174571 )

          I ended up with a president that created kill lists of Americans, followed the advice of Keynesians, engaged in even more unwise military adventures, massively increased the cost of my medical insurance, created moral hazards all over the place, and for good measure accused me of having white privilege and not having built my business. So, not doing that again. (I left the Democratic party after being a lifelong Democrat.)

          Go home, Russian troll.

          • Go home, Russian troll.

            Actually, I moved to the US to get away from European authoritarians.

            Now let's look at you: in 2011, you decided to move to Goldman Sachs, a company that had made billions from the taxpayer funded bailout at the time and lied about it to Congress, a company that was in bed with Hillary Clinton and paid her massively inflated speaking fees, getting reassurance and insider information. And then you joined Credit Suisse and moved to an enclave of the super rich and since that was long be

  • Perfect for the USA (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    This device fits the way Muricans generally think, i.e. "As long as I get mine and don't have to be considerate about anyone else, then that's just great. Who cares if I choke up the healthcare system with false positives. I won't bother me."

  • I think the main caution was provide some education on how to use vs slapping on and freaking out over a non std reading. Kind of expect medical professionals to figure out how to deal with users of these devices and Apple will also cooperate. In other words, No shit Sherlock. Early detection should save lives. The improvement in tracking should help reduce false negatives over time. A HRM is good for people awareness of their conditioning. Of course can do with a second hand watch and your fingers but much

  • No one will read the article unless it's about people complaining.

  • Similar effect as other fitness trackers, tags: doctor, heart, apple, watch

  • On my first child, we did the new parent thing, went to the training sessions the Ob recommended, learned various facts and warning signs. One of which is "if the fever is above , come to the ER immediately, it's the law." So a couple years go by, and as it happens the kid gets a fever, it's shooting up over 105, we rush him to the ER. Anyway, doctor sees the kid, the kid throws up, temp comes down. Doctor diagnoses him with a stomach bug, and chastises me for an unnecessary ER visit in the most condescendi

  • It's always the other guy who gets too much healthcare.

    Our visits are always legitimate, even if they turn up nothing, it's better to be safe than sorry.

    Other people need too much peace of mind, though. Damn other people! They are they so worried about themselves? I don't get it? I mean, I'm not worried about them! Why are they???

    If other people go to the doctor too much, I might be able to get an appointment when I have a (totally legitimate, mind you) concern,

    Oh no, now I'm worried about me. If

    • Our visits are always legitimate, even if they turn up nothing, it's better to be safe than sorry.

      Unfortunately not. The trouble is that visits can and do turn up false positives. Those false positives inevitably end up with treatment which does come with risks.

      We're starting to slowly wake up to this with poulation scale screening for certain diseases. They've always been tilted in favour of low false negatives because hey, who wants to miss cancer? The trouble is the overall outcomes are not actually the

  • ... my brother is a cardiologist.

    He's much in favour of this and will buy this new Apple watch. So at least there is some disagreement in the medical community with respect to this very strange 'false positive' claim before the product is actually available.

    Personally, I still won't buy this wrist-hanging, freedom imposing, fashion showoff piece of redundancy. I have the time on my Huawei phone, and there's nothing wrong with my heart :-)

  • Doctors follow a philosophy of do no harm. It will be very challenging when patients presenting no other symptoms other than an abnormal ECG seek treatment. Many if not most of these people would otherwise have led normal lives untreated, but now may demand treatment which likely will cause harm. At best initially, our already overburdened health care system will groan under the weight.

    Ultimately though, vast numbers of ECG readings and other electronic health records may ultimately serve as training exam
  • Be wary of doctors making a diagnosis based on very little information.

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