Massive Recall of Homeopathic Kids' Products Spotlights Dubious Health Claims (arstechnica.com) 119
Earlier this week, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued a statement that the homeopathic drug company King Bio is recalling 32 of its children's pain-relievers. According to the FDA, a "small percentage" of those products tested positive for bacterial contamination during regular, random testing by King Bio. From a report: The announcement does not provide any specifics about the contamination or potential risks. However, the North Carolina-based manufacturer behind the recall, King Bio, issued a similar announcement back in July. At that time, the company recalled three other products after an FDA inspection found batches contaminated with the bacteria Pseudomonas brenneri, Pseudomonas fluorescens, and Burkholderia multivorans. Pseudomonas brenneri is a bacterium recently found in natural mineral waters, and its clinical significance is murky. However, Pseudomonas fluorescens is known to be an opportunistic pathogen, causing blood infections, and Burkholderia multivorans can cause infections in people with compromised immune systems and cystic fibrosis. It was also recently found to be a rare but emerging cause of meningitis. King Bio did not respond to Ars' request for comment on the contamination, its potential source, or the company's actions to prevent further contamination.
Homeopathic products, as Ars readers are likely familiar, are those based on a pseudoscientific belief that substances generating similar symptoms to an ailment can cure that ailment, aka the "law of similars." The potentially dangerous substances are generally safe to consume because homeopaths believe that "vigorous shaking" and excessive dilution -- often to the point where no atoms of the original substance remain -- make them more effective. As King Bio puts it, this preparation "potentizes" the substances. King Bio told the FDA that the items of concern were a group of various over-the-counter remedies produced between August 1, 2017 and April 2018.
Homeopathic products, as Ars readers are likely familiar, are those based on a pseudoscientific belief that substances generating similar symptoms to an ailment can cure that ailment, aka the "law of similars." The potentially dangerous substances are generally safe to consume because homeopaths believe that "vigorous shaking" and excessive dilution -- often to the point where no atoms of the original substance remain -- make them more effective. As King Bio puts it, this preparation "potentizes" the substances. King Bio told the FDA that the items of concern were a group of various over-the-counter remedies produced between August 1, 2017 and April 2018.
Overdose (Score:5, Funny)
One time I forgot to take my homeopathic medicine and I overdosed.
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One time I forgot to take my homeopathic medicine and I overdosed.
You win the internet today!!! Damn that is as perfect a joke as can be.
Re:Overdose (Score:5, Funny)
One time I forgot to take my homeopathic medicine and I overdosed.
. . . and here I wacky-parsed the headline as:
"Massive Recall of Homeopathic Kids' Parents."
. . . getting rid of the cause of the doses . . . over or under.
Re:Overdose (Score:4, Funny)
One time I remembered to take my placebo and I got better.
Homeopathy. (Score:1)
It's what happens when snake oil salesmen discover water is cheaper to procure than actual snake oil.
Homeopathic Post (Score:2)
n/t
"pseudoscience"? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:"pseudoscience"? (Score:5, Interesting)
Okay, here is the definition:
There is nothing about homeopathy that can be construed as having anything at all to do with the scientific method. Homeopathy is pure fantasy. There's a difference between pseudoscience and magic.
If a crazy man in the park makes "potions" in discarded Coke bottles using his own bodily fluids as alchemical reagents and throws them on passersby to cure them of demonic posession, we wouldn't call that "pseudoscience." It's just batfuck madness. And, from the sound of this article, may be just about as sanitary as these homeopathic remedies.
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Homeopathy is a complete scam that abuses scientific jargon to sound credible and intelligent to victims who have little understanding of science. That's exactly what pseudoscience is. Just like magnets on the fuel line improving gas mileage, crystal shakras, magnetic water filters, etc. That's pseudoscience.
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Magnetic water filters can at least help remove iron compounds.
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Magnetic water filters can at least help remove iron compounds.
Sure, after aeration and settling...
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Yet it would stand a chance of doing something, unlike homeopathy. There is more pharmaceutical value in the urine of someone taking a drug than there is in a homeopathic formula.
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It's been done for thousands of years already. [erowid.org]
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There is nothing about homeopathy that can be construed as having anything at all to do with the scientific method.
Not by intelligent people, no. But stupid people might believe the claims that it has been tested and proven to work without looking into what that testing and proof looks like.
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Okay, here is the definition:
Where in the name of Zombie Feinman's ghost did you get that definition.
Wikipedia describes it as: [wikipedia.org]
Pseudoscience consists of statements, beliefs, or practices that are claimed to be both scientific and factual, but are incompatible with the scientific method.
The OED defines it as: [oed.com]
"1. As a count noun: a spurious or pretended science; a branch of knowledge or a system of beliefs mistakenly regarded as based on scientific method or having the status of scientific truth."
"2. As a mass noun: spurious o
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I typed the word 'pseudoscience' into Google. I thought that might be adequate for the forum we're in. It doesn't differ all that greatly from the definitions you provided.
Given that I'm arguing against the existence of snake oil, it seems odd that I would also use it, myself. Carry on, though. Your outrage, though inexplicable, is at least colorful.
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Maybe you should look up what pseudoscience is? Quite literally, it means "false science."
The problem with words like 'pseudoscience' and 'homeopathic' is the demographic which is being scammed is unaware of what it is. It's not like 95% of the population is aware what the latin roots mean and while 'pseudoscience' literally translates to 'false-science', other usages of the root 'pseudo-' are not given negative connotations and words like 'homeopathic' give no indication of their falsehoods.
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Re: "pseudoscience"? (Score:2)
The placebo effect is "real" in the same sense as, say, an "HHO generator" for your car is real. That is yo say, they both exist, and people claim they do something, but there's no evidence of them actually being objectively beneficial. When people say "I took that pill and felt better" it's no different than saying "I installed the HHO generator and now it feels like my car goes farther on a tank of gas".
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Maybe you should look up what pseudoscience is? Quite literally, it means "false science."
I get that. I'm quite familiar with the definition. I worry about dumbasses who don't know how to use a dictionary. We also have this word, "theory" that causes a bit of a problem, too. I'm just advocating for clarity, that's all.
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It might work though (Score:2)
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TIL there are "homeopathic kids products" (Score:1)
TIL there are "homeopathic kids products".....
WTF. Don't do this to your kids.
This is clearly child abuse to deprive your children of actual medical care.
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That stopped me at first. Then the "pain reliever" part hit me even harder.
So this is literally water some idiots choose to give their children to relief pain. Ok, 20% or so may get the placebo effect. And rest are just going to suffer all out?
Takes a special kind of person to watch their own child in pain and give them water to help with it, knowing full well that there are better alternatives, but she/he'd have to give up some deep seated beliefs to use them.
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This is clearly child abuse to deprive your children of actual medical care.
It's worse. These products make claims to dissuade people from preventative care, like vaccines for example. The real problem is you've got assholes in the media and hollywood screeching still that this is 100% the cause of autism, or whatever else.
It's just water, this should be easy (Score:3)
If you're going to peddle water as phony medicine, you should at least have the decency to sterilize the water and the container before you push it on your marks. And filter the water, for that matter. If it's not bacterial contamination, it's metals or whatever leeches out of the pipes or storage areas.
I'm in favor of regulating the entire sector out of existence, unless we just want homeopathy to be a form of social Darwinism, but I feel like that's unfair to the children of the idiots who buy into this bullshit. They'd probably just go back to crystals and magnets, though.
It's funnier than that (Score:2, Insightful)
Sometimes they screw up and don't dilute enough. When they do that kids get sick and die. It's usually the kids since adults can often survive (being older).
That said, most homeopaths aren't idiots, they're desperate. Especially in America. We don't guar
Re:It's funnier than that (Score:5, Insightful)
That said, most homeopaths aren't idiots, they're desperate. Especially in America. We don't guarantee healthcare. Lots of people can't afford it. So they turn to something to give them hope.
But it's mostly desperate people without healthcare looking for hope. Most human being can't live without hope, so they'll take it where ever they can find it. They're easy prey.
This implies that it's because they can't afford "proper" healthcare. I've spent my adult life working with people who's employers provide excellent insurance as a perk, and I can tell you that it's not a problem with affordability. People don't want to go to a doctor and hear that there isn't a pill to solve their problem, real or imagined. They want solutions, and if the medical profession doesn't have the solution they want, they'll find an alternative.
Excellent healthcare it relative (Score:2)
Oh, one more class of homeopath I forgot (Score:2)
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People don't want to go to a doctor and hear that there isn't a pill to solve their problem, real or imagined. They want solutions, and if the medical profession doesn't have the solution they want, they'll find an alternative.
As evidenced by the prevalence of people demanding antibiotics for viral concerns. I had to go to the hospital recently and there was a big poster in the ER that said something like, "antibiotics are not effective against the cold and other viruses, don't be offended if you don't leave with a prescription for antibiotics." It was a bit catchier than that but had that general theme, and then the smaller print at the bottom had some interesting information about overprescription of antibiotics contributes t
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When they do that kids get sick and die
Cite?
Especially in America. We don't guarantee healthcare. Lots of people can't afford it.
Instead of crying like a bitch why don't you just pony up and help fund healthcare? Since so many of the Bernie crowd and other assorted clueless gimps think that healthcare should be "free" why aren't you willing to pay out to reputable charities what you would need to pay in taxes for all the "free" healthcare? I'm sure you can make a serious de
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I prefer to make homeopaths richer ... by not buying their products.
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But filtering would destroy the water's memory of the active ingredients! /s
They could at least start with distilled water that has been heated and UV treated though.
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Which is why they SHOULD do it, before adding anything for it to "remember". Wouldn't want the water remembering the wrong thing, now would we?
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Are you kidding me? Try my new homeopathic cure for cooties... Now made with 100% raw water [arstechnica.com] for that extra burst of natural healing power! Sure, it's three times more expensive than those generic homeopathic products made with distilled water stripped of all its vital life energy. But after all... Isn't your body worth it?
Obligatory YouTube (Score:2)
Created by the comedy team "That Mitchell and Webb Look":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
The one exception (Score:3)
I will make one exception - arnica montana That is actually because it isn't really homeopathic.
It is an infusion of the flowers of the arnica Montana daisy in vodka or isopropyl alcohol, and used as a spray to eliminate pain. just keep it out of cuts.
And it works, performing a pretty good numbing effect, and smells pretty good - like fresly mown hay.
Living with daily pain, and being allergic to opioids, I need something to ease my poor abused joints.
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IANAMD, but it sounds to me like you're getting an anesthetic effect from the evaporating alcohol (plus some aromatherapy?)
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IANAMD, but it sounds to me like you're getting an anesthetic effect from the evaporating alcohol (plus some aromatherapy?)
No, the effect of an alcohol only rub is definitely different. That's a cold feeling. This is numb.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] This stuff isn't homeopathic because it isn't their goofy diluted makes powerful argument. It's a lot of the flowers infused in the alcohol. Regardless, I used the stuff daily while recovering from a broken ankle and torn ligaments. Smell? I guess if I was observing a placebo effect, I could get rid of the pain just by smelling fresh cut daisies. It is the same smell.
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Pffft, I'm just going to keep rubbing lidocaine on myself.
Just dont get it on your tallywhacker
Re:The one exception (Score:5, Informative)
I will make one exception - arnica montana That is actually because it isn't really homeopathic.
For whatever reason, homeopathic medicine has incorrectly become partially synonymous with herbal medicine and natural home remedies. It's an incorrect usage of the term "homeopathic", as some herbs and home remedies have demonstrable effectiveness (mint tea for a sore throat, ice pack for a bruise - those actually work!). True homeopathic medicine, however, is 100% placebo.
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I will make one exception - arnica montana That is actually because it isn't really homeopathic.
For whatever reason, homeopathic medicine has incorrectly become partially synonymous with herbal medicine and natural home remedies. It's an incorrect usage of the term "homeopathic", as some herbs and home remedies have demonstrable effectiveness (mint tea for a sore throat, ice pack for a bruise - those actually work!). True homeopathic medicine, however, is 100% placebo.
I think they want at least one thing to work.
Logically, homeopathy can work for some diseases (Score:3)
If you visit a homeopath for a non life-threatening condition and he listens to you and gives you something that cannot harm you and you get a sense of optimism and a sense of control that you are doing something to get well, it only helps your body do what it is supposed to do -- heal itself. Does it not? It doesn't matter that homeopathy is outside of science when health to a large part is outside of science.
All negations of homeopathy are based on chemistry but you are not a sack of chemical reactions go
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It doesn't matter that homeopathy is outside of science when health to a large part is outside of science.
To paraphrase Pauli, that statement is so incorrect it isn't even wrong.
Keep reading this site until you understand better, please.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.o... [sciencebasedmedicine.org]
All negations of homeopathy are based on chemistry but you are not a sack of chemical reactions gone wrong.
"Negations of homeopathy" are based on a very facile understanding of chemistry and the causes of disease. Your body is a sack of unbelievably complicated chemical reactions operating under ideally homeostatic conditions. It's common for those processes to go out of whack from time to time. Usually your body can fix those processes itself. Somet
Re: Logically, homeopathy can work for some diseas (Score:2)
Your assumption here is that chemistry-based medicine is the most effective approach to treating ALL conditions. Even medical doctors would disagree with you. The good ones anyway.
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Your assumption here is that chemistry-based medicine is the most effective approach to treating ALL conditions
As distinct from magic-based medicine?
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Considering our present knowledge of the human body, healing in general is often the result of "magic". We may observe that something happened but do not know why that happened. If that's not magic, I don't know what is.
And regarding the original topic,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]
"CONCLUSIONS:
Homeopathic intervention offered positive health changes to a substantial proportion of a large cohort of patients with a wide range of chronic diseases. Additional observational research, including studies using
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... [nih.gov]
What is that study supposed to prove? They asked people who chose homeopathic care after a traditional medical intervention if they think homeopathy helps. It's not a study, it's a questionnaire. They don't even compare it to regular post-intervention care. It's like asking people who visit a chiropractor if they think going to the chiropractor helps. I'm somewhat shocked 30% said the homeopathic care didn't help in a study set up this way.
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It's supposed to prove that "Additional observational research, including studies using different designs, is necessary for further research development in homeopathy."
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The problem is that people who understand that homeopathy is bollocks, won't visit them for any reason. Those that believe homeopathy works will try to use it for serious conditions and the homeopaths will try and treat them anyway and won't tell them to go and see a real doctor.
The fact that some people will see a homeopath for serious conditions that need proper treatment is why it is harmful.
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If you visit a homeopath for a non life-threatening condition and he listens to you and gives you something that cannot harm you and you get a sense of optimism and a sense of control that you are doing something to get well, it only helps your body do what it is supposed to do -- heal itself. Does it not? It doesn't matter that homeopathy is outside of science when health to a large part is outside of science.
All negations of homeopathy are based on chemistry but you are not a sack of chemical reactions gone wrong.
As Stephen Colbert might note, this is truthiness writ large.
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All negations of homeopathy are based on chemistry but you are not a sack of chemical reactions gone wrong.
No, you're a brain in a sack of chemical reactions and bacteria which often goes wrong.
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If I understand what you mean (as brain is organic matter just as much as the rest of the body) I think those are medical views from circa 1950s. E.g. now we have good reasons to believe that gut bacteria for example influences our decision making. The whole is not just the sum of the parts.
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The whole is not just the sum of the parts.
No, it's the product of its parts.
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I'm interpreting your post as a desperate subconscious wish for someone to prove you wrong. "You" as in what you consciously believe.
I can't be that person, sorry. But if if my interpretation is correct it shows there's a part of you that still wishes to believe, to dream, to hope, to live. Try to find a way to give that part in you a little more space to spread, to grow, to flourish. It will make life feel good again.
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It seems like a clinical trial is a nice simple truth detector but the truth is often too nuanced for this tool. Studies on acupuncture (which is also outside of our scientific framework) when done by Eastern medical doctors show higher effectiveness than when done by their Western counterparts, for whatever variety of reasons.
That said I agree, clinical trials are at least some tool, and as far as I know they show homeopathy is as effective as placebo. Which is better than nothing, since the placebo effect
Re: Logically, homeopathy can work for some diseas (Score:2)
It seems like a clinical trial is a nice simple truth detector but the truth is often too nuanced for this tool. Studies on acupuncture (which is also outside of our scientific framework) when done by Eastern medical doctors show higher effectiveness than when done by their Western counterparts, for whatever variety of reasons.
"Whatever reasons?". The reasons are simple; bias and poor methodology. A properly designed and executed double-blind study will have the same results regardless of where it's done. The fact that there are shoddy studies out there does not mean that "the truth is too nuanced for this tool" any more than the fact that there are crappy mechanics out there means you need to take your car to a homeopathic mechanic. It just means we need to look at the good studies and ignore the bad ones.
That said I agree, clinical trials are at least some tool, and as far as I know they show homeopathy is as effective as placebo. Which is better than nothing, since the placebo effect is not trivial to induce.
This is just nonsen
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A properly designed and executed double-blind study will have the same results regardless of where it's done.
This article of faith reminds me of what Nassim Taleb said, "We have managed to transfer religious belief into gullibility for whatever can masquerade as science."
Re: Logically, homeopathy can work for some disea (Score:2)
This article of faith reminds me of what Nassim Taleb said, "We have managed to transfer religious belief into gullibility for whatever can masquerade as science."
And this is how I know that you are as much of an idiot as Taleb. What I've stated is no more "an article of faith" than if I were to say that when someone flicks a light switch the lights will come on regardless of whether the person doing the flicking is Chinese or European. The fact that you see it as an article of faith only demonstrates that you have no clue what's going on.
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Your name calling is stupid and your views are limited -- and limiting -- but I respect your zeal for wanting to know reality. That quality seems to be depressingly rare among intellectuals today. Check out the book "An Introduction To General Systems Thinking" by Gerald Weinberg, written in the 70s and stood the test of time.
Re: Logically, homeopathy can work for some disea (Score:2)
I'm glad you've found a way to make yourself feel superior to all intellectuals; I'm sure you need some kind of ego boost in your life. However, you may want to think about keeping your smugness to yourself, so that the rest of us aren't put in the position of having to point out your ignorance.
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It sounds like an herbal tincture. I don't have any idea what the medicinal benefits of arnica montana are, but from a casual search, it sounds like there are proven effects. Creating a tincture by mixing the active part of a plant with alcohol can be a legitimate medicine. I'm not against using naturally occurring substances as medicine. We've seen that cannabis has medical effect for glaucoma and others, psilocybin shows promise for treating PTSD, Saint John's Wort has been shown in clinical trials to be
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Creating a tincture by mixing the active part of a plant with alcohol can be a legitimate medicine. I'm not against using naturally occurring substances as medicine. We've seen that cannabis has medical effect for glaucoma and others, psilocybin shows promise for treating PTSD, Saint John's Wort has been shown in clinical trials to be a natural antidepressant, and there are certainly others that don't spring to mind.
.
Many modern drugs are based on so called natural medicine. they are just purified and concentrated.
Opportunity Knocks (Score:3)
Just what I need. This presents the perfect opportunity for me to market to these parents my latest book: 8 Do It Yourself Homeopathic Recipes You Can't Live Without
Here's a sneak peak at the book:
Table of Contents
1. Homeopathic Birth Control - page 1
2. Homeopathic Nausea Relief - page 1
3. Homeopathic Constipation Relief - page 1
4. Homeopathic Diarrhea Relief - page 1
5. Homeopathic Antacid - page 1
6. Homeopathic Plan B - page 1
7. Homeopathic Epidural - page 1
8. Homeopathic Sodium Thiopental - page 1
Re:Opportunity Knocks (Score:4, Interesting)
You may have been scooped, sort of. [xkcd.com]
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You may have been scooped, sort of. [xkcd.com]
Yes, if you hover over the strip, you will get a nice pop-up elaborating on homeopathic "medicine". Nice link.
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Homeopathic birth control, used properly, is effective. Wedge the bottle between the thighs and hold it there.
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Homeopathic birth control, used properly, is effective. Wedge the bottle between the thighs and hold it there.
You can still become impregnated while holding a bottle between your thighs if you simply turn over...
Stupid paranoia forces this (Score:2)
As a parent, you suddenly learn that due to various overdosing in the past, nothing is recommended for young kids. So parents see their kids in pointless agony over teathing or toddler colds, etc and find nothing at the store for them. Except for homeopathic crap. If you won't sell what works, people will find something else to try.
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As a parent, you should also realize is that in most cases, kids don’t need anything unless the doctor prescribes it.
It’s not about overdoses, their tiny livers have to process stuff like acetaminophen which could be more harmful both short and long term. Doses have to be accurately measured based on body weight and a few other factors.
Homeopathy is to medicine (Score:3)
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At least homeopathy generally doesn't do anything -- except for times like this where it's contaminated. This only harms the people using it. An actively malign government harms many, including those who have no desire to participate in that harm, to benefit a few.
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...-- When Chuck Norris throws an exception, it is always fatal.
Extra points for that sig.
Fuck King Bio! (Score:1)
Are you kidding? (Score:2)