Vaping Can Damage Vital Immune System Cells, Researchers Find (bbc.co.uk) 137
Vaping can damage vital immune system cells and may be more harmful than previously thought, a study suggests. Researchers found e-cigarette vapour disabled important immune cells in the lung and boosted inflammation. From a report: The researchers "caution against the widely held opinion that e-cigarettes are safe." However, Public Health England advises they are much less harmful than smoking and people should not hesitate to use them as an aid to giving up cigarettes. The small experimental study, led by Prof David Thickett, at the University of Birmingham, is published online in the journal Thorax. Previous studies have focused on the chemical composition of e-cigarette liquid before it is vaped. In this study, the researchers devised a mechanical procedure to mimic vaping in the laboratory, using lung tissue samples provided by eight non-smokers. They found vapour caused inflammation and impaired the activity of alveolar macrophages, cells that remove potentially damaging dust particles, bacteria and allergens.
Cmon life (Score:2)
Re: Cmon life (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm sure smoke does the same thing. It is also hot and contains contaminants.
When will the media learn that "safer than smoking" is not saying it is completely safe and stop conflating the two?
Re: Cmon life (Score:4, Informative)
A lot of vapors seem to think it's "completely safe", and the ways that it isn't completely safe are not understood.
I never assumed it was, and tell people it's a lot safer. I assume that inhaling 400 (f) air is likely to cause subtle harm. I'm also not certain that a coating of oily solvent type stuff is good for the lungs.
Still, I smell better, save massive amounts of money, am likely healthier, and have cut my nicotine consumption by about 90%, I assume I'll be quit in a few more months and save even more money.
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The most dangerous thing about vaping is that it has destroyed the funding for anti-smoking groups by reducing their revenues from tobacco sin-taxes by Tens of Billions of Dollars.
That is the primary reason that we are seeing those same groups going after vaping, it is all about self-preservation
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That's my plan.
I'm not sure it will work entirely.
Smoking definitely had a couple of components to the addiction, nicotine probably being about middle in them.
Vaping has broken the connection of nicotine to smoking, but I still crave smokes every now and again. Vaping covers the triggered cravings, but not the social ones.
I'm down from a pack a day to a pack a week though
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I've heard that for a lot of long-time smokers. My mother says that even after 30 years, she has an intense craving for a cigarette when she sips her first morning-coffee.
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Driving is my biggest.
I consider there to be 2 types of cravings.
Social, and triggered.
The social ones I need to willpower (vaping does nothing for them), but the strong ones are well helped by a good vape.
Coffee, and driving are my 2 major triggers. As is a need for a 10 minute break at work.
I used to chain on my way to work, 2-3 on a 15 minute drive.
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There is no way I could go six months without coffee and alcohol.
Well done!
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Life Rule 1) Everything good for you is unpleasurable, everything bad for you is pleasurable.
Life Rule 2) See rule 1.
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Counterpoint: Cucumber and avocado salad with Italian dressing.
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Crunchy water, slimy fruit and sugary vinegar. Rule 1 then?
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If you're putting sugar in your Italian dressing, you're doing it wrong.
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Public Health England advises they are much less harmful than smoking
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I can attest that since I switched back to a dry herb vaporizer, my weed supply has been lasting much longer. I think it has already saved me at least 1 $100 ounce from the nearest dispensary.
I still enjoy smoking a bowl occasionally of course, but I mostly vape it. Just holding out until my plant I have growing out in the back yard buds...
Nicotine was prove not to damage lungs.. (Score:3)
so is this the fault of PG in the liquid?
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so is this the fault of PG in the liquid?
Likely from running their test vaping rig at extremes of coil temperature, wattage, and draw-times that no normal person would normally experience. I suspect that most of these types of studies look at the specs for a given device such as "coil wattage 30 to 65 watts, maximum recommended draw time 5 seconds" (which nobody would do as it would be horrible) and set their test rig for 65 watts at 5 seconds.
Vaping is not good for anyone. I wouldn't advise anyone take it up that is not a tobacco smoker. However
oh did they? (Score:5, Insightful)
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+1 insightful
And what temperature? And what it temperature controlled or just "dumb." I am no expert in that field, but it seems with just preliminary researching that there are probably many, many factors involved. Coming to any conclusion will require knowing those factors and how they interplay and holding them constant for many different tests.
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Who cares? I'd say that vaping is obviously NOT better than just breathing clean air. But as far as nicotine delivery systems go, it's certainly healthier than cigarettes and way more fun than gum or patches or whatever. But I have to say that vaping, as a nicotine delivery system, has actually been helping me lose weight by providing me with a sugar-free way to enjoy a sweet flavored treat and suppressing my appetite.
My own health has been far more impacted by the ready availability of way too much sugar,
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Who cares?
Maybe you should.
If you had a choice between vaping that harmed you and vaping that didn't, you would pick the harm-free one, right? So research that pinpoints the thing doing the harm and leads to the development of less harmful vaping is a good thing.
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Read the Paper, Cow Flatulence (Score:3)
Also, somewhat ironically, cow flatulence [theguardian.com] actually is important for determining climate change!
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I think that's sort of the problem (Score:2)
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You don't understand how these studies work.
What makes more sense: throw a large amount of money at a full scale, long study with multiple variables just to find out if there is anything there, or do a cheaper limited study that will tell you if it's worth investigating further?
Obviously the answer is the former, you throw resources at the problem until you are sure no armchair biochemists on random tech news sites will be able to mock the size of your study.
Re:uhhhhh (Score:4, Informative)
inhaling anything other than oxygen is bad for your lungs
Air is about 80% nitrogen, 20% oxygen...
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Pure oxygen is poisonous.
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Actually, the researchers agreed and, in fact, recommended that all smokers should switch to vaping immediately.
Somehow, that part didn't make it to the headline.
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Actually, the researchers agreed and, in fact, recommended that all smokers should switch to vaping immediately.
Somehow, that part didn't make it to the headline.
But it was the second sentence in the quoted part of the article. There's a limit to how long headlines can be.
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The experts also recommended that all smokers switch to vaping immediately.
Re:To quote Mr. Burns: Excellent! (Score:5, Informative)
Are you really bothered by the fact that people might be doing something vaguely harmful to themselves, or is it some other stylistic aspect of "vapers" that you don't like?
I mean, I watch people consume known toxin ethyl alcohol all the time and despite their occasionally destructive and violent behavior, I don't get quite as angry as you seem to be at vapers.
I don't really care about vapers, it looks fairly silly in practice but I can't think of a reason to be mad at them. But boy, a lot of people seem to heap hate on vapers.
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Bothered? I encourage it! If people want to harm themselves, go for it. Fewer idiots to deal with every day. Just don't expect me to pay for their medical bills or offer any sympathy. Actions have consequences and all that.
How you think I'm mad at them is unknown.
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Personally I couldn't care less about vapers unless they're blowing smoke in my face.
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Are you really bothered by the fact that people might be doing something vaguely harmful to themselves, or is it some other stylistic aspect of "vapers" that you don't like?
I mean, I watch people consume known toxin ethyl alcohol all the time and despite their occasionally destructive and violent behavior, I don't get quite as angry as you seem to be at vapers.
I don't really care about vapers, it looks fairly silly in practice but I can't think of a reason to be mad at them. But boy, a lot of people seem to heap hate on vapers.
B-B-B-B-but Big Vape or whatever nonsense they've created.
Vape fluid MAY have some negative side effects we don't know about, lets compare that to burning tobacco. Whatever nebulous effects the fluid might have its got to be better than the confirmed highly cancerous substance it's meant to replace. I've switched two of my relatives from being life long smokers to being vapers. They can now sit inside with relatives, taste food and realise how bad other smokers smell and they now have a smaller chance of
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I'm mostly inclined to think that it's some kind knee-jerk moralism. Smoking is "bad" not just because of its health effects but because it involves drug consumption for pleasure.
Vaping is the moral equivalent, so it must be just as bad in spite of less health effects because of morality.
I'm fairly convinced that if you invented a drug that had the same pleasurable effects of heroin but was magically free of addiction, overdose or any other measurable health side affects most of the same people enraged abo
Yet another tobacco industry "study"? (Score:1)
They're at it in blatantly obvious ways ever since e-cigs became popular. Somebody cut into their mass-murder profits! Oh noes! (Yes, it is deliberate and willful mass-murder.)
Yeah, nicotine smoke is not the best thing. Neither is alcohol, caffeine, sugar/starch, saturated fat, salt, city air, all that shit in cosmetics and industry "food", etc, etc, etc.
We use them anyway, because what's the point of having a life if you're not living any? You can live a 100 years physically, but only 10 mentally. And you
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Patches and gum are still better nicotine delivery systems for breaking the addiction. However, people who don't want to break the addiction because they like nicotine (or at least think they do) want a small, fast-acting dosing system that can be measured to match the situation at hand. For this niche, vaping is much better than smoking. Setting plants on fire and inhaling the smoke is always going to be a horribly impure and inefficient way to dose. Vaping doesn't have to be zero-risk to still be an impro
FUD (Score:5, Interesting)
Bath healthy cells in water and there will be damage too.
All for science and finding out how to make vaping safer... but FFS study it and do legit science. Not paid for shilling.
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The last paper popular paper on this subject tested using hours of continuous exposure, and this study doesn't clearly state the dosing duration.
36 mg/ml is much higher than what is typically carried in stores. It's hard to find anyone local who sells 12mg/ml.
Since this study seems like they're submerging the tissue in liquid, why isn't there a comparison with submersion in water?
I know when I'm i
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Can you explain precisely why their methodology is invalid? It doesn't seem unreasonable to use a higher than normal level of exposure to make some predictions about what long term lower level exposure might do.
The prediction might not be entirely accurate, but it does suggest that further research is warranted.
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Can you explain precisely why their methodology is invalid? It doesn't seem unreasonable to use a higher than normal level of exposure to make some predictions about what long term lower level exposure might do.
The prediction might not be entirely accurate, but it does suggest that further research is warranted.
If somebody decided to study the harmfulness of alcohol solely through the administration of massive ethanol enemas, you would be equally happy with their results and just as ready to defend them via this "just asking questions" shit that's become so popular recently amongst american fucking cunts.
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It doesn't seem unreasonable to use a higher than normal level of exposure to make some predictions about what long term lower level exposure might do.
Either you are being willfully ignorant, or woefully so. Blasting someone with 8Sv of radiation does not accurately simulate the same dosage spread out over 40 years. Submersion in water for 70 minutes does not reflect a lifetime spent living in humid conditions.
The prediction might not be entirely accurate,
The study provides no acceptable reason to extend it the courtesy of 'possibly accurate.'
but it does suggest that further research is warranted.
And when do we actually get this further, more accurate research, instead of yet another study using blatantly bs methods? Or are we to be content never ques
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Objective: We compared the effect of unvaped ECL to e-cigarette vapour condensate (ECVC) on alveolar macrophage (AM) function.
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Conclusions: ECVC is significantly more toxic to AMs than non-vaped ECL.
As if (Score:2)
They are significantly safer than cigarettes. All else is people wittingly or not in service to big tobacco trying to get the competition expensively regulated or outlawed.
"Which would be sweet!" said B. T. "Let's get scientists who wanna make a name cluelessly working on our behalf".
"With any luck, anyone who points this out will get downmodded by another clueless helper!"
use common sense (Score:2)
Inhaling smoke into your breathing apparatus.
Of course that isn't safe. It can be various degrees of unhealthy, and some ways are faster and more damaging than others, but obviously that isn't healthy.
The question is how unhealthy, not if.
Flavored or unflavored juice? (Score:2)
Were they using normal cheap gas station flavored juice or pure unflavored juice? If flavored, then what flavor(s)?
It seems generally the worst part is the [undefined] stuff in the flavoring.
cigarette worse! (Score:1)
I expected... (Score:2)
I came to this Article expecting. "But the study is wrong, I blame Big Tobacco! it's a conspiracy!".
I found it.
I have been suffering from (HERPES) disease (Score:1)
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You can always move. We'd be glad to see your bitch ass go to Mexico and prove to us how wrong we are about their "culture."
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Fewer hipsters? Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
Re:Just a drug delivery device (Score:5, Insightful)
A coffee cup could also be considered a drug delivery device, so what?
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So, how long have you been a vaping addict? Any other history of substance abuse? Alcoholism? Meth addiction?
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Nicotine also has some health benefits once divorced from combustion products. And I'm pretty sure most of those cups aren't filled with decaf.
So how long have you been sniffing your own farts?
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That's ok. However don't you dare put a straw in that drink. Even though straws contribute a very small fraction of plastic to oceans side of fishing nets. Let's put you in jail if you use a straw.
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Know what's the best and most pleasant thing to inhale into your lungs? CLEAN AIR.
Interesting idea, where might I find some of this clean air to put into my lungs?
I never thought to search for some on Amazon but... woah, whatdya know [amazon.com]
Clean Air Purge III Aerosol (1 Can)
"Pyrethrins-based Purge III insecticide is metered insecticide formulation for flying insect control. It kills insects such as flies, mosquitoes, gnats and small moths for a full 30 days. Purge III leaves no lingering insecticide odor. For the most economically-effective flying insect control, trust Purge III, formulated wi
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omg how could I forget that scene! Thanks for that one.
Surprisingly (to me) the link I ran with was actually the 3rd amazon result for "clean air", right after an air cleaner machine and, for some reason, a power converter for a plasma cutter...
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