EU Votes To Ban Bee-Harming Pesticides (theguardian.com) 130
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: The European Union will ban the world's most widely used insecticides from all fields due to the serious danger they pose to bees. The ban on neonicotinoids, approved by member nations on Friday, is expected to come into force by the end of 2018 and will mean they can only be used in closed greenhouses.
Bees and other insects are vital for global food production as they pollinate three-quarters of all crops. The plummeting numbers of pollinators in recent years has been blamed, in part, on the widespread use of pesticides. The EU banned the use of neonicotinoids on flowering crops that attract bees, such as oil seed rape, in 2013. fBut in February, a major report from the European Union's scientific risk assessors (Efsa) concluded that the high risk to both honeybees and wild bees resulted from any outdoor use, because the pesticides contaminate soil and water. This leads to the pesticides appearing in wildflowers or succeeding crops. A recent study of honey samples revealed global contamination by neonicotinoids. The ban on the three main neonicotinoids has widespread public support, with almost 5 million people signing a petition from campaign group Avaaz.
Bees and other insects are vital for global food production as they pollinate three-quarters of all crops. The plummeting numbers of pollinators in recent years has been blamed, in part, on the widespread use of pesticides. The EU banned the use of neonicotinoids on flowering crops that attract bees, such as oil seed rape, in 2013. fBut in February, a major report from the European Union's scientific risk assessors (Efsa) concluded that the high risk to both honeybees and wild bees resulted from any outdoor use, because the pesticides contaminate soil and water. This leads to the pesticides appearing in wildflowers or succeeding crops. A recent study of honey samples revealed global contamination by neonicotinoids. The ban on the three main neonicotinoids has widespread public support, with almost 5 million people signing a petition from campaign group Avaaz.
Re:Fipronil (Score:5, Insightful)
They can pry it from my cold dead fingers. Nothing gets rid of roaches like it
You know, that could be prophetic. Some of these things affect humans as well.
Re: Fipronil (Score:2, Insightful)
So do you not believe that this is the cause of colony collapse or do you not think that a huge decline in pollinators is a problem?
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The bees can hold out for another few years while the supply chain catches up. I cannot say the same about enough crops to feed a full populace without pesticides.
There is a good reason that the "cradle of civilization" was in an arid semi-desert region: blight and pests are of little problem only in those climates, and in those areas nearly all the modern crops came to be. What can be grown in Iraq without pesticides canno
The bees can hold out for another few years? (Score:2)
And you know this how?
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An entomologist who only managed to figure out how to create a Slashdot account last Thursday?
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An entomologist who only managed to figure out how to create a Slashdot account last Thursday?
He doesn't know about locusts either.
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I always thought they could block the movement of locusts using reflective helium ballloons. The one thing a locust doesn't want to do is to fly into water. For this reason, their left and right compound eyes are polarized vertically on one side and horizontally on the other. When sunlight is reflected by water, it becomes polarized in the plane of reflection. The difference in light intensity in both compound eyes is then used to determine which areas should be avoided.
Put up some reflective balloons that
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I served the state for a number of years as entomologist.
An entomologist who only managed to figure out how to create a Slashdot account last Thursday?
He's a Trump-appointed entomologist. His qualifications consist of commenting about roach extermination for Fox and Friends.
Re: Fipronil (Score:5, Insightful)
That's horseshit. California feeds most of the country to one extent or another, and we've got the most stringent pesticide reduction program in the US.
We can have crops without pesticides. We can't have crops without bees.
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Does it have to be one or the other?
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But Iraq wasn't a desert, hot semi-arid place eight thousand years ago.
You win the internets! Iraq was converted into a desert through clear-cutting and, ironically, overuse of agriculture. These two practices (commonly combined) have done more environmental damage than anything else man has yet done. Chernobyl hasn't affected wildlife much, for example, but desertification sure does.
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But Iraq wasn't a desert, hot semi-arid place eight thousand years ago.
You win the internets! Iraq was converted into a desert through clear-cutting and, ironically, overuse of agriculture. These two practices (commonly combined) have done more environmental damage than anything else man has yet done. Chernobyl hasn't affected wildlife much, for example, but desertification sure does.
And a 20th century version of this happened in the USA.
Meanwhile, this is all shaping up to be a slashdot legend - fun with anonymous cowards or defective chatbots. Looks like you'll be added to the list at number 19 So tally Ho!
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Not sure about "most of the country" there Pope, and the water management sure ain't the best..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Not sure about "most of the country" there Pope, and the water management sure ain't the best..
Over half of what we eat in this country is produced in California. Most of that midwest farmland is producing export crops or fuel feedstock.
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California feeds most of the country to one extent or another, and we've got the most stringent pesticide reduction program in the US.
We can have crops without pesticides. We can't have crops without bees.
There are some methods that use flames to carbonize plants. These have to be used prior to planting.
But after planting, there are a couple of really cool options. One is using little waterjets to cut off the weed plants. It doesn't use a lot of water, but the plants obviously like water.
My favorite is a method that uses corn gluten to perform a sandblast action. It is also a good natural fertilizer. There are also claims that it is a good pre-emergent herbicide, but results have been varied.
The proof
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Here is a partial list of fake name "ne'er-do-well" users who APK has repeatedly dusted and continually handled perfectly: 1) amicusNYCL 2) Zontar The Mindless 3) Ol Olsoc 4) ShanghaiBill 5) Ash-Fox 6) PopeRatzo 7) Brockmire 8) DontBeAMoran 9) AmiMojo 10) evanh 11) Solandri 12) DrYak 13) 110010001000 14) tepples 15) arth1 16) fisted 17) Coren22 18) whipslash 19)
Which one of you fuckers is next?
Finally! the recognition I deserve!
Damn, I wish Slashdot allowed Blinkies.
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You missed the news. APK and me are buds now.
https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]
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You missed the news. APK and me are buds now.
https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]
Isn't that little AC just so cute? hopefully its just a defective chatbot.
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There is a good reason that the "cradle of civilization" was in an arid semi-desert region: blight and pests are of little problem only in those climates
That's a gross oversimplification... It won out because it happened to be where those future crops grow natively, where nearly every domesticable animal already occupied as a habitat, and where metal resources were close to or at the surface. Look at the lengths the Amerindians had to go through to domesticate corn vs. essentially stumbling upon pre-mutated wheat. Look at sheep, goats, donkeys, cattle, pigs, cats, dogs, honey bees, camels, and various domestic birds... all either from or available to people
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Haha, did I channel my inner Jared Diamond in that comment?
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What can be grown in Iraq without pesticides cannot be grown in most of France without pesticides.
France has always been a major producer in Europe, even before pesticides existed. Removing them would require a cultural revolution from farmers, but it is technically feasible
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Re: Fipronil (Score:5, Insightful)
So do you not believe that this is the cause of colony collapse or do you not think that a huge decline in pollinators is a problem?
It seems like we'll soon be getting a reasonably definitive answer on that first question. If colonies rebound after the ban, then that's a pretty good indicator of causality. Likewise, if no rebound occurs over a period of time, such that persistent contamination is ruled out, then that also is an indicator that there may be something else at play.
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So do you not believe that this is the cause of colony collapse or do you not think that a huge decline in pollinators is a problem?
It seems like we'll soon be getting a reasonably definitive answer on that first question. If colonies rebound after the ban, then that's a pretty good indicator of causality. Likewise, if no rebound occurs over a period of time, such that persistent contamination is ruled out, then that also is an indicator that there may be something else at play.
Exactly! Where are my mod points when I need them? Thank you for a well-reasoned, insightful response. You made the most rational point without belittling or insulting anyone. I almost never see this anymore. You made my day.
Re: Fipronil (Score:5, Interesting)
A count of insects [plos.org] last year found that the number of insects living for instance in Germany has dropped to a quarter since the 1980ies. No. Not dropped by a quarter (25% less). Dropped to a quarter (25% remaining). And that's in protected areas, where the use of insecticides is limited.
A ban of three insecticides (there are many more) will not cause the insect population to immediately rebound to the numbers of the 1980ies. So there is no imminent famine due to insects eating our crops. There might be an imminent famine due to the lack of pollinators, which also are reduced to a quarter.
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The null hypothesis is that insecticides kill insects, and bees are insects. Thus insecticides kill bees. That was easy.
Your hypothesis is wrong. There are broad spectrum insecticides like Sevin. Those will nuke a lot of insects, and for that reason, a lot of care must be taken in their use. In recent years, we've been taking to using narrow spectrum pesticides as often as possible. Like for caterpillers like the Gypsy Moth, Tebufenozide will take them out without harming many other insects. There is no one size fits all.
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Yeah, the problem is that actual studies on the effects of neonicotinoids on bees show that there are no effects.
Seriously. Read it for yourself.
All I had to read was the abstract to know that you're a liar. You claim there are no effects, while the study claims "low potential for negative effects". Those are not the same thing. You're misrepresenting the study so badly, even the abstract proves you're a liar. Stop lying, liar.
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Read the newspapers from the 1990's. Farmworkers noticed that bees became slow and dozy and started to fly into things wherever those bright yellow fields were located.
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Yeah, the problem is that actual studies on the effects of neonicotinoids on bees show that there are no effects.
Could you go back to looking for O'blama's birth certificate please?
This act bans a safe, cheap, and popular insecticide for BS reasons while ignoring the actual causes of Colony Collapse Disorder.
The real cause is either Hillary's emails or chemtrails.
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Re: Fipronil (Score:5, Interesting)
So do you not believe that this is the cause of colony collapse or do you not think that a huge decline in pollinators is a problem?
My cousin is a beekeeper here in Ontario, and she doesn't believe it's the case. Her hives were hit a few years ago with repeated collapses, and it nearly wiped her out. Her idea is and it seems to have worked in her case is that the domesticated bee is well far too domesticated. It's recessive breeding on recessive breeding because queen breeders selectively pick particular queens that show the same traits over and over again with no new injections DNA into the hives, making the hives weaker to parasites and environmental factors. Anyone who's worked on a farm already knows the dangers of recessive breeding traits in livestock, we try to avoid that or branch particular breeds and try to keep the genetic diversity up. It really doesn't happen in beekeeping, they breed the same 'type' of queen repeatedly and in large numbers, and it's becoming more common as colonies collapse to try and keep the number of active drones working.
So in her case, introducing new queens into collapsed hives from other regions, instead of the current "regional selection" that currently goes on, her hives rebounded in less then a year. Maybe in her case it was off-luck, but she hasn't had any problems since and now breeds her own queens.
Re: Fipronil (Score:4, Interesting)
Genetic diversity does seem to be a factor [doi.org], but the question is loaded by talking about "the cause". Given the complexity of the systems it's reasonable to expect there to be multiple relevant factors, and there is also evidence that neonicotinoids are a factor [doi.org]. Regulating pesticides falls within existing legislative frameworks, but I'm not sure about regulating breeding practices.
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One problem is we really don't see rollbacks in legislation in cases like this. Usually this leads to a new race to find a new insecticide or herbicide, followed by complete clusterfucks for decades.
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If parasites like the vermoa mite are the problem, then it should be possible to train the bees to remove them by playing instructional videos. It was possible to teach bees to play football simply by playing a video of what to do plus the reward of a surgary treat.
https://www.voanews.com/a/bumb... [voanews.com]
Beepocalypse Not (Score:1)
Not a problem now. And wasn't much of a problem at it's worst.
The beepocalypse has been canceled.
But please, go ahead and panic on.
I'll make some popcorn.
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Do you have any sources for your theory or is it just inhaling chemtrails and the lizard people talking to you in the pizzeria's basement?
Re:Fipronil (Score:5, Informative)
Would that be the same Bayer that sells neonicotinoids and argues against banning them [bayer.com]?
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You DO know there are other pesticides that aren't banned, don't you?
As for swift moves, it'd been a decade or so. Just how slowly do you want them to move?
Re:Fipronil (Score:5, Insightful)
What will farmers do without pesticides?
And what will farmers do without bees?
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Hope you don't like eating food then. (Score:1)
Because without bees, you won't have any to eat. But hey, at least you don't have roaches!
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If you take out the amount of corn that's used to produce ethanol, it falls to about 4th on the top food crops.
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Because without bees, you won't have any to eat.
Plenty of crops, including rice, wheat, maize (corn), do not need insects to pollinate.
But hey, at least you don't have roaches!
The ban is on outdoor use (agriculture, garden, landscaping). You can still spay roaches in your house.
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The ban is on outdoor use (agriculture, garden, landscaping). You can still spay roaches in your house.
Always spay roaches in the house, if you do it in the yard They will see you.
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Plenty of crops, including rice, wheat, maize (corn), do not need insects to pollinate.
If you want to only eat grains for the rest of your life, that's cool with me. More fruit and vegetables for the rest of us... if you don't kill all the bees
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They can pry it from my cold dead fingers. Nothing gets rid of roaches like it
And here, in a nutshell, is why this law won't work: the pesticides will still be widely available because it is still allowed in greenhouses, and farmers simply won't care about it.
The only way to stop this is by banning those pesticides outright.
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Speaking as a citizen of Arizona, scorpions clear out roaches better than any chemical solution, but there are a few side effects. Of course YMMV.
https://www.reference.com/pets... [reference.com]
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Until it stops working and you add resistance genes to the insect genepool, fucking over the original species the substance was derived from. Then you repeat that trick for every other natural insecticidal substance, until finally you end up with pests with resistance to fuck near everything in their "junk" DNA ready to be reactivated at a moment notice.
Congratulations, you tilted evolution in the favor of pests by accelerating it by multiple orders of magnitude. What's the next step in your master plan?
ugh. Here we go again (Score:1)
There only a handful (less than 10) species of Honeybee. None of them are native to North America. There are thousands of species of solitary bees and wasps that are native to North America. Blue Masson and Leaf Cutter are of the most common. They are far superior pollinators that don't (or rarely) sting. They don't have a Queen and literally are 500x per bee better pollinators vs honey bees.
Is CCD an issue? Yep. Should be working hard to fix it? Yep. Should we take reasonable actions once we have
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You will make a killing, and as a bonus no one will have to read about bee stories in the news.
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CCD is not an issue in the EU.
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CCD is not an issue in the EU.
O RLY [wikipedia.org]?
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Honey bees are farmed animals that turn a profit. That's why they're popular. Vicious, aggressive and dangerous to humans little bastards compared to other pollinators.
The last living bee thanks you (Score:2)
...
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Recent studies have criticized earlier studies, and concluded that neonicotinoids were NOT significantly harming honeybees, except when in conjunction with other environmental stressors and varroa mites mites in particular (and no, global warming was not one of them).
Further, annual censuses have shown an overall growth in bee population worldwide, including in the US and UK.
They keep trying to solve non-problems, by enacting harmful measures. My concern is no
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Recent studies have criticized earlier studies, and concluded that neonicotinoids were NOT significantly harming honeybees, except when in conjunction with other environmental stressors and varroa mites mites in particular (and no, global warming was not one of them).
O [theguardian.com] RLY [vice.com]?
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Re: American change begins with consumers (Score:2)
Living without pesticides is what organic farming is all about
Nicotine (the substance being banned here) is an organic pesticide. If you believe that organic farming doesn't use pesticides you are incredibly naive.
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Fortunately we have fake democracy. If we had real democracy we would be REALLY screwed.
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