Interstellar Object 'Oumuamua' Appears To Be Wrapped In An Organic Insulation Layer (theguardian.com) 242
dryriver writes: Oumuamua is the cigar-shaped object -- about 400 meters long and only 40 meters in the other dimensions -- that originated from somewhere else in the Galaxy and visited our Solar system while moving at nearly 130,000 miles per hour. Scientists do not know where Oumuamua came from or what it is made of -- it is not shaped like commonly seen asteroids, and unlike comets, it does not leave a trail behind it, not even when it flew past the Sun. Oumuamua seems to be wrapped in a strange organic coat made of carbon-rich gunk that it likely picked up on its long travels through space. The coat, which gives Oumuamua a dark red appearance according to scientists, was examined by using spectroscopy, which looks at the light being reflected from its surface and splits it down into its wavelengths. By looking at those measurements, scientists can work out what the object might be composed of. Scientists regard it as likely that Oumuamua may be of icy composition on the inside, but that the ice doesn't come off the object due to the thick organic crust that is wrapped around it. Oumuamua has also got extraterrestrial watchers excited. Some believe that its strange, long shape suggests that it is a spaceship of some sort passing through our Solar system. Whatever Oumuamua turns out to be, it certainly has researchers and space watchers around the world fascinated and puzzled at the same time.
Could it have hung out in the oort cloud? (Score:3)
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Well, it passed through there to get here.
But, as I understand it, it is moving at greater than solar escape speed, so it didn't come from there originally.
Caveat: if there are two very large (gas giant sized) planets in the Oort Cloud, it's conceivable that its speed could be a result of near approaches to both of them in a (relatively) short period (less than one orbit)....
Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud? (Score:2)
Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud? (Score:4, Insightful)
Slingshotting can add velocity (by stealing it from the planet it is passing) or even reduce velocity. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Please to stop using "velocity" when you mean"speed".
Remember, speed is a scalar, velocity is a vector. 60 mph is a speed, 60 mph due north is a vector.
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Slingshotting isn't to gain velocity; it's to change direction without expending fuel/reaction mass.
Correct, it is a velocity vector rotation about the center of mass of the object. However it is a rotation in the moving frame of reference relative to the Sun, so it typically does change the velocity relative to the sun (and yes speed also, but I really mean velocity).
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Well, it passed through there to get here.
But, as I understand it, it is moving at greater than solar escape speed, so it didn't come from there originally.
Depends on what you mean by "there". It came from interstellar space and has thus been passing on a trajectory on its own, orbiting the galaxy very likely for billions of years, passing through all kinds of environments. It would be interesting to see someone do a study on probabilities of exposure to various environments over such a long time. How many stars does it make a pass around? How long in giant molecular gas clouds, and in dust clouds?
Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud? (Score:4, Insightful)
AIU the Oort cloud is spherical. The Kuyper belt is an actual belt (although with large deviations from the average inclination).
Re:Could it have hung out in the oort cloud? (Score:5, Informative)
There's no need to "pick up" tholins; they seem to naturally form everywhere we look in the distant solar system, from simple carbon and nitrogen compounds. Kuiper belt objects are a mix of red (tholins) and white (ices); where you see ices, that's generally young terrain. Actually, to be fair, tholins are more of a rust brown than "red", but that's picking at straws ;) Tholins are an extremely broad range of chemical compounds (some very long), and probably differ significantly in ratios from place to place, but form a family of common celestial organic "gunk".
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Does anyone remember the author, and name, of a science fiction story about an asteroid named "Pomona Negra", or "Black Apple", which had inexplicably turned red, and was found to be coated with a form of life that kept growing, and spread to the boots of the crew sent to investigate and eventually to the lunar base they returned to?
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Does anyone remember the author, and name, of a science fiction story about an asteroid named "Pomona Negra", or "Black Apple", which had inexplicably turned red, and was found to be coated with a form of life that kept growing, and spread to the boots of the crew sent to investigate and eventually to the lunar base they returned to?
The Red Stuff by John Wyndham
Re:Im not saying its aliens... (Score:3)
I'm not saying it's unicode, but it's unicode.
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And Slashdot could fix it by just turning a ‘ into ‘ even if they didn't implement proper Unicode support.
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Rendezvous with Rama (Score:5, Interesting)
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Well you know these things happen in THREES.
Darned sequel truthers... (Score:3)
Well you know these things happen in THREES.
Everybody knows that is false. Next, you'll be claiming that there were two sequels to The Matrix, too.
:-)
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Actually there were four or more if you count the animated Animatrix..
Re:Rendezvous with Rama (Score:5, Informative)
Impossible for now. If we manage to survive long enough, we may eventually come up with a really fast method of space travel and chasing down this thing would be a good use for it, as it will probably be closer than the nearest stars for a very long time to come.
Even if it takes 100 years, it will still be "only" 0.02 light years away if it maintains its speed of 210,000kph. It will take around 400 years to reach the inner edge of the Oort cloud.
This thing is going to be in the Sol system for a long time. We can go see it. Well, probably not we. But descendants of ours could.
Re: Rendezvous with Rama (Score:3, Informative)
Ars technica covered this https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/so-you-want-to-send-a-probe-to-catch-up-to-oumuamua/
Best bet is those tiny starshot space probes that are still in development.
Re:Rendezvous with Rama (Score:4, Informative)
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We could *already* get to it, if we really wanted. Dawn has reached a 10 km/s delta-v even with primitive ion thrusters and simple solar panels. With the DS4G thrusters currently in development, you could do twenty times as much.
Sounds like a job for Tony Stark aka Elon Musk!
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We could *already* get to it, if we really wanted. Dawn has reached a 10 km/s delta-v even with primitive ion thrusters and simple solar panels. With the DS4G thrusters currently in development, you could do twenty times as much.
Wait, until there's something in "Detla-V" that I'm missing, 10 km/s is 36 000 km/h and twenty times that is 720 000 km/h. Still not "that" much faster to catch up to him quickly. And I'm guessing coming back with a sample is out of the equasion.
Re:Rendezvous with Rama (Score:5, Informative)
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Yeah but unless you want a blazing fast flyby, you would have to also spend a lot of time and fuel decelerating. There isn't enough gravity pool in either object to be useful for capture at those speeds.
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We could *already* get to it, if we really wanted. Dawn has reached a 10 km/s delta-v even with primitive ion thrusters and simple solar panels. With the DS4G thrusters currently in development, you could do twenty times as much.
You should say "If we want to be ready to do it next time we see one of these, we can be."
Doesn't help us this time.
It is asking a bit much to expect us to have an advanced mission to launch designed to intercept something we have never seen before. But if its natural then there will be more, and if not "they come in threes" (that's a joke, but not really - either way, why should this be the only one?).
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It will be interesting to see someone propose funding such a probe, to be ready for launch if (when) another interstellar object is detected. Can they get traction with anyone with money?
If NASA, the ESO and China won't spring for it, maybe some group of billionaires? Musk, Bezos, Gates, Buffet, are you guys in? Maybe if Stephen Hawking [express.co.uk] asks?
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Re: Rendezvous with Rama (Score:2)
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It is estimated that three interstellar objects enter [and leave] the Solar System everyday. There will be plenty of opportunities in the future, as we refine our techniques.
Without a qualification for size and how close it comes to the Sun talking about how often they enter the Solar System is meaningless (i.e. how large and how close determines rate). According to this FAQ from NASA [nasa.gov] about this:
Alieums? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Apart from one logical thing, why would you think more advanced aliens would be stupider than us. We have spent fuck all time looking for them, but they have spent millions even billions of years looking for us. How to find us very early in our transitional state from primitive to modern. The simplest infra red satellite dotted around the galaxy in their billions, in orbit around suitable planets, looking for the first clump of camp fires. Why the hell would advanced societies not look for primitive societi
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Buried somewhere deep in all those words is a thought trying desperately to get out.
Descartes replies, “No, I think not,” and disappears in a puff of logic
Re: Alieums? (Score:2)
Apart from one logical thing, why would you think more advanced aliens would be stupider than us.
That's easy: the more advanced we get, the dumber we're becoming.
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Apart from one logical thing, why would you think more advanced aliens would be stupider than us.
Because as we've seen in movies, we can easily infect their systems with malware!
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perhaps there was a miscommunication... No-one has even hinted at aliens being dumber than us... but now that you have mentioned it I surmise that it could be possible. You do however bring up some very interesting thoughts about civilization, and especially the thought about keeping some planets at a lower technological era for a given species... intriguing!
Certainly people have. There is a science fiction story called Pandora's Planet that put forth just that, mankind is much smarter than the large galactic civilization. The trimmed story is better IMHO than the full one which is more humorous. In the end, it hints at something else that other stories have brought up, which is that intelligence is not been shown to be an important trait to the survivability of a species and may even be detrimental.
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There could be aliens out there now, but what interest would they have in us?
Uh, maybe the same interest we'd have in them? After all you're saying yourself it takes pretty special circumstances, so that's interesting by definition.
We are down right barbaric
Yeah, and only you are enlightened enough to realize this. And the aliens would know/see this without watching.
smh
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By "extraterrestrial watchers" they mean crack-pots right?
People are capable of some pretty impressive belief's and disbelief's. I know one guy who denies that humans ever reached the moon at the same time insists that this rock is a spaceship filled with aliens. We somehow cannot get 250 K miles away with proven technology, but aliens scoot around in goo covered rocks. Sounds legit.
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Re: Alieums? (Score:2)
That doesnâ(TM)t make any sense. Why wouldnâ(TM)t space aliens be interested in us, perhaps even more so because of our history of barbarism? Particularly given the heroism that naturally arises in such a world.
We may not all be that interesting, but the aliens
Yeah.... but (Score:2)
There could be aliens out there now, but what interest would they have in us? We are down right barbaric, not to mention that our own space program(USA) has almost taken a giant leap backwards, with all of the budget cuts! Unless we are to become slaves/food/resources, they would likely have zero interest in us IMHO.
I agree with you... but THEY don't know that.
Look, it's really almost impossible to fathom the size of our solar system, let alone the universe. I would venture that most people can't even conceptually understand it. But coming up with outright dumb theories - they are great at doing.
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Re: Alieums? (Score:5, Interesting)
it not only seems awfully small for a multi-generational ship (assuming a reasonable minimum size for any lifeforms that might crew it)
How does one determine a reasonable size?
A cockroach has the same mental capacity as a rodent, its "brain" is miniscule but highly efficient and advanced for such a small creature. Spiders have similarly complex "brains" and can learn, remember, understand cause and effect be taught tricks... etc.
If you took a brain with the sheer efficiency and complexity of a spider/cockroach and scaled it up to a cat sized organism you could potentially have an organism far more intelligent than us.
Then there is the matter of how much space do they need? If the species is advanced enough, do they need to actually physically move around? Can they be "wired-in" to a central computer and have the perception of a lot of space? Not as glamorous as the roomy ships of the Star Trek federation and other sci-fi, but much more efficient and probably more likely for interstellar travel than roomy space ships would be.
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On the otherhand, if you shrink the crew count too much on a multi-generational ship you are potentially going to have issues with genetic diversity and susceptibility to diseases - assuming either of those is relevant to our hypothetical aliens, of course.
That is certainly true of humans, and definitely for any terrestrial complex life we know. However, with technology though (and who knows how advanced such a species could be)- you could artificially provide for genetic diversity. Even in humans, if an embryo's DNA was initially printed by a computer somehow (rather than relying on mating for genetic selection), you could have certain genes appear in the population with a predictable occurrence.
If we, as a species, ever had a generational ship; I think, a
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If you took a brain with the sheer efficiency and complexity of a spider/cockroach and scaled it up to a cat sized organism you could potentially have an organism far more intelligent than us.
You've just hypothesized Yoda.
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If you took a brain with the sheer efficiency and complexity of a spider/cockroach and scaled it up to a cat sized organism you could potentially have an organism far more intelligent than us.
You've just hypothesized Yoda.
Should be "Yoda just hypothesized you have".
You're welcome.
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A cockroach has the same mental capacity as a rodent
Citation please.
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You could do 15 to 20% of light speed with a postage stamp sized spacecraft and a shitload of lasers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
We could send the aliens a Qualcomm Snapdragon. Everyone likes Qualcomm Snapdragons.
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The problem with that idea is how do communicate with the Earth and without the capability of communicating any findings, what's the point?
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Small to whom I wonder?
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Don't build. Grow your probes. Cast them to the stars like seeds on the wind. Embedded and encoded in each are the parts and pieces necessary to start life as it's creators knew, within a few standard deviations.
Don't look for these kids. They won't be where you thought and by the time you get there they won't act like you either.
Just know that whatever is out there, life, no life, a universe so sterile it isn't even dead....you made a difference in that vast coldness that abhors life. You gave the uni
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Except then you never get to come home.
Unless your whole life was the ship, it doesn't make sense.
Sure, maybe some species has a life span in the thousands of years, and making the journey only costs a relative month back home, but that seems unlikely, as a lifespan that long would make evolution (both genes and memes) very slow, reducing the likely hood of becoming so advanced.
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a lifespan that long would make evolution (both genes and memes) very slow, reducing the likely hood of becoming so advanced.
On the flipside, if you're advanced enough to create interstellar spacecraft, you might very well be advanced enough to eliminate aging in your species artificially.
Even if they couldn't, there are plenty of other natural alternatives outside of technology. Lifespan is relative. A long lifespan just means that it just takes longer to evolve, who says they haven't been around longer than us? Their biology might be such that they evolve quicker, higher number of mutations. They might have a cyclical lifet
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Unless your whole life was the ship, it doesn't make sense.
If (when) we progress to space-based civilization then living in space will be the whole life for many. Of necessity real space settlements far from the Sun must be self-sustaining (distances are too great to order "spare parts"), if they accumulate the fuel needed to boost to say 1% c and then slow down, they will have enough energy to run their society for millions of years also.
These will not be "generation ships" so much as they will be space civilizations in motion.
The exhaust velocity of D+He-3 fusion
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And yet, you have people leaving the comforts of their home to visit the African congo. You have people competing to be the first to Mars where they will die on a bleak, baren desert of a planet. Not what I would choose to do does not equate to stupid.
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>If the options are to live in a self contained large structure on a planet that's otherwise inhospitable, or to live in one that wanders and every century or two sees something new, I'm sure there are people that would choose the second.
Once you can build a generation ship, you no longer need planets. In fact, planets become undesirable because their gravity wells make accessing resources more difficult.
If you want to find intelligent, space-faring aliens... look in the Oort cloud. Not that we'd be ab
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If intelligent origins (low chance), it would be presumptuous for us to assume it was meant for us.
Cheap is the key word here. With high enough tech, lobbing a few hunks of rock around the galaxy could be a very cheap way to send out a remote satellite or life-seeding system.
So....what you're saying is we should probably call up Casper Van Dien and tell him to get ready? Better visit Buenos Aires while you still can.
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(93834871) What interest do the "DeusMachinians", who are actively trying to meet with and elevate other species, have in us? Plenty!
(93834872) What interest do the "Sumbitchians", who believe that no dish is as delicate and subtle as that born of genocide, have in us? Plenty!
Intelligent species will probably have some aggressive tendencies. After all, which species on earth seem to evolve more intelligence? Hunters/Omnivores that have to strategise how to catch food- or Omnivores that need to run or hide.
By necessity, aggressive species also develop intelligence. So, probably most intelligent species to evolve would not be gentle.
Then there comes to pure strategy. Any alien species given enough time could become more advanced than you. Any species more advanced than you, c
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"Omnivores that need to run or hide."
Obviously, I intended to say herbivores.
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Actually I recall a study recently that suggested that statistically speaking herbivores are as intelligent as carnivores. One example being elephants, who are one of the more intelligent species on the planet, quite likely more-so than chimpanzees. Might not carry to large-herd animals that rely on shear numbers for safety - but for more individualist species figure that predators are trying to out-think lunch, while prey are trying to out-think more immediate death. Which do you suppose applies the stro
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Counterexample: Vegans.
It's just a big shit (Score:5, Funny)
We don't know where it came from but it seems to be a huge shit from some kind of alien. Really big alien.
Just think like when you're flying between Europe and Americas and need to go to toilet. And when you flush it gets out because of cabin pressure and get frozen. Just like Oumuamua is flying on space. And even the shape is almost same.
There can be some kind of bacteria to be investigated but it's not same life form like where it came out from.
Mr. Hankey (Score:2)
Explaining the Elongated Shape of Oumuamua (Score:5, Interesting)
Explaining the Elongated Shape of Oumuamua by the Eikonal Abrasion Model
http://iopscience.iop.org/arti... [iop.org]
I've already seen the documentary on this... (Score:2)
I've already seen the documentary on this. First the asteroid enters the solar system. Then the Bad Carrots [wikia.com] arrive. And finally Lyekka [wikia.com] eats Tokyo. Fortunately, we are a type 13 plant, so our suffering shouldn't last to much longer.
Has already been solved years ago (Score:3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Interstellar Object 'Om nom nom' (Score:3)
Eat too much this holiday season, and you too will find yourself wrapped In an organic insulation layer when spring comes.
Impressionable people watching bad SciFi? (Score:2)
Some believe that its strange, long shape suggests that it is a spaceship
Is there any reason that an interstellar vehicle would or should be "rocket" shaped?
It seems to me that a streamlined profile is quite unnecessary for anything other than a launch from within an atmosphere.
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Whilst aerodynamics aren't really a concern, an elongated shape may still prove beneficial when navigating dust, debris or indeed anything else - when travelling at 130,000 miles/hour.
Our engineering suggests the elongated shape may also be 'natural' in some cases, in so much as you may want your living spaces as far away from your engines as you can get them - that naturally stretches out your ship design.
So yes, most of these sentiments are probably from watching sci-fi, but some aspects of it aren't nece
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Is there any reason that an interstellar vehicle would or should be "rocket" shaped?
Yes: structural considerations. A columnar shape with thrust applied at one end (assuming it ever needs to maneuver) gives the most benign stress distribution and requires the least structural mass.
We Need to Build a Wall^H^H^H^H Sphere (Score:2)
And have the Alpha Centurians pay for it!
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It needs to be built out of diamondium, not that inferior diamondillium that Wormstrum wants us to use.
Wormstrum!
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They outbid Dyson? This project might not suck after all.
Serously? (Score:2)
This object is long, cylindrical and "covered" in organic matter? Wanna bet it's also tapered at both ends and smells bad?
People, it's a TURD!
This is the respect humans have in the galaxy: Aliens throw their shit at us.
Shape? (Score:2)
long shape suggests that it is a spaceship of some sort
And why is that? You do realize that shape doesn't have to be streamlined in space? There is no air therefore you can have the shape to be any way you like.
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You are still assuming earth like atmosphere. On the alien planet it's possible there is little or no athmosphere.
Vogons (Score:2)
Dark brownish red, oblong, contains water.... (Score:2)
We're in touch with aliens? (Score:5, Funny)
Oumuamua has also got extraterrestrial watchers excited.
How do we know that???
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Nicely done.
Now hear this! (Score:2)
- Gen. Talbot
pickle (Score:2)
Starship Troopers (Score:2)
It's a new missile sent by the bugs, they just missed with their first shot. Expect more incoming.
Somebody hit wipers please. (Score:2)
Yo mama what? (Score:2)
Sorry, had to ask that because it was the first thing I thought of when I read the name of this object. I actually thought it was a hoax/prank for a second.
Three possibilities (Score:2)
2. It's a sentient organic star ship like Gomtuu [wikia.com]
3. its something totally natural but really, really, really weird that is going to have people discussing/arguing over what it is for years to come.
My moneys on 3, but 1 and 2 are more fun to think about.
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That would have been funnier if you used units that could actually measure speed.
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Standard Barleycorns per candle?
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You've got the distance, but I can't find any use of "candle" as time, am I missing one?
Megacubits per fortnight?
Or you could add in a bunch of extraneous self-cancelling measures so that things all cancel out to still get a single distance per time ratio e.g.
Poncelet per sthène (power/force = distance/time)
or if you want to get really ridiculous
oxgang-spuculum-calories per batman-hogshead
(d^2) (t) (m*d^2/t^2) / (m) (d^3) = d / t
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It makes more sense in a base 60 numbering system (12 hours in a day), along with 360 degrees in a circle. Somehow we've gone backwards by using a base 10 numbering system. Babylon used base 60, some primitive tribes, who counted using the gaps between fingers, used base 8.
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Actually there are 2 PI radians in a circle. Perhaps you shouldn't comment on the mental acuity of others when you yourself were off by a factor of pi? It's so easy to remember that a right angle is ~1.5707963267948966192313216916398 radians.
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Because nature doesn't conform to decimal time.
The second is defined based on caesium atoms.
AFAIK there is no realistic decimal time proposal that doesn't have issues with solar time.
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Why not use 'sic' to denote it's not a typo..? TM looks like Trademark to me.